feruchemy Origin of Feruchemy

[Shadow of Electrum he/him]

I just finished reading secret history and I started thinking about the origin of the metallic arts. We know that the original allomancers were created from burning lerasium and that hemalurgists are created from their rituals, but as far as I'm aware there isn't a definitive origin to Feruchemy. I'm pretty sure Feruchemy is a combination of Preservation's and Ruin's investitures, think Sezed said something about this but I can't remember anything beyond him saying that it was end neutral for the power it gives. It is passed down, but if we can assume it's anything like allomancy, it was probably given to the ancestors of the terrace packmen. I can't imagine how it would have been given to them though. The first idea that came to my head was burning harmonium, but not only is that not chronologically possible, if that was the origin of Feruchemy I think it would have come up near the end of era 2 considering how much harmonium was thrown around by the end. The only logical thing I can think of is that Preservation and Ruin worked together to create it when they first created life. If we know this and I'm just unaware I'd like to be informed, but if not I'd like to hear other theories as to where Feruchemy comes from.

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the Forums.

22 minutes ago, AvonZapper said:

We know that the original allomancers were created from burning lerasium

That is actually not correct. The first Mistborn came from Rashek giving out the beads of Lerasium he found at the well. Allomancers were being Snapped by the Deepness before they travelled to the well. Alendi, in fact, was a Seeker (which is why he could hear the pulses of the Well - like Vin).

As far as origins of the Metallic arts - few-to-none of the Arts (on any Shardworld) came about because a Shard specifically said "I'm creating this Magic, with these rules." Rather, the vasrious manifestations of investiture all derive from a unique combination of the Shard(s) investiture, the location, the people and the environment. WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

asmodeus

You've said before that a lot of the magics we see across the cosmere come from an interaction of Shards and their Investiture with the planets they Invest in. What does this mean practically? If Scadrial explodes tomorrow, will Hemalurgy stop working across the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy wouldn't stop working, most likely, but it could. There are ways that you could make it stop working. I kind of mean that the Shards are an innate part of physics in the cosmere, and the magics that arise are an innate part of physics because of that. Like atium seeped out into the Pits of Hathsin, in the same way, these magics are just gonna leak out, and different places are going to affect them. You'll see Lightweaving happening in different places, and the way the Shard is interacting with the local... The way the Shard is is going to affect how Lightweaving is administrated in the various magics, but it's still gonna be there. Hemalurgy is kind of a similar thing to that. You will see Midnight Essence, you will see some of these recurring ideas popping up, and these are like natural parts of the physics, but they're influenced by the Shards on the local planets.

I don't know if that answer, that's gonna be a really fun one for them to transcribe into the Q&A thing, because I go around in circles on that question a ton. Put this part in when you do it.

Footnote: It was a really fun one.
YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

Quote

Questioner

From what I understand, Ruin and Preservation create the world together, and they created humanity as copies of the original humankind. So how did they give Allomancy to Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So the magic systems are kind of built into the setting and the world. And there are certain natural pathways that exist, in the same way there are certain natural pathways for them to create life. Which is my explanation for why life is so similar on all the different planets, is that they're following natural pathways, and these magics are kind of the same way. For instance, Lightweaving predates the Shattering of Adonalsium. A lot of these other things are suggestive of magics that existed before that were built around Adonalsium. They weren't 100% created by the Shards, but they also do have the Shards' influence on them.

Skyward San Diego signing (Nov. 7, 2018)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Also, as a note, Alendi was an Allomancer, as the epigraph notes here. He had to be—he heard the pulsing at the Well of Ascension when nobody else could. "Ah," you might say, "but I thought that you said Allomancy didn't exist before those beads." That isn't 100% true. The legends say that Allomancy came with the Deepness. Alendi was one of the very first Allomancers, and he gained his powers as the mists began to cover the world.

That's important.

Because, of course, he was Snapped by the mists, like is happening to people in this book.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Feb. 23, 2010)

 

So, Feruchemy is the result of Ruin and Preservation working together to create the planet and its people - where the expression of their work together created a base Manifestion of Investiture (MoI) that was also part of each (but slightly more Preservation, just as people themselves are slightly more Preservation). Which is why it was also the first MoI to naturally develop and be explored and understood by its practitioners.

Hope that helps.

[alder24]

2 hours ago, AvonZapper said:

I just finished reading secret history and I started thinking about the origin of the metallic arts. We know that the original allomancers were created from burning lerasium and that hemalurgists are created from their rituals, but as far as I'm aware there isn't a definitive origin to Feruchemy. I'm pretty sure Feruchemy is a combination of Preservation's and Ruin's investitures, think Sezed said something about this but I can't remember anything beyond him saying that it was end neutral for the power it gives. It is passed down, but if we can assume it's anything like allomancy, it was probably given to the ancestors of the terrace packmen. I can't imagine how it would have been given to them though. The first idea that came to my head was burning harmonium, but not only is that not chronologically possible, if that was the origin of Feruchemy I think it would have come up near the end of era 2 considering how much harmonium was thrown around by the end. The only logical thing I can think of is that Preservation and Ruin worked together to create it when they first created life. If we know this and I'm just unaware I'd like to be informed, but if not I'd like to hear other theories as to where Feruchemy comes from.

Yes, Feruchemy is the balance system, being both of Ruin and Preservation:

Spoiler

Argent (paraphrased)

Feruchemy is the "balance" between Ruin and Preservation. Would any combination of Shards create a "balance" magic, so to speak, or are only certain Shards compatible?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Feruchemy ended up being a balance system, because of how polar Ruin and Preservation were. Any world with at least two Shards will result in a similar phenomenon. 

[...]

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 5, 2013)

It's hard to say, we have almost nothing on this. I think those are possible ways of how the first Feruchemist came to be.

Firstly, everyone on Scadrial has a seed of metallic arts within his soul. And while the chances of becoming a Feruchemist are likely extremely low, they're still none zero, thus given thousands of years, someone might have started the whole line of Feruchemist - very unlikely in my opinion.

Spoiler

Comatose

So here's my last question. If there ARE people on the other side of the world, did Vin kill them all by placing the sun on their side, or do they have they're own Ruin/Preservation battle going on over there as well? Do they also have allomancy feruchemy and hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

No, they're not dead. Yes, Rashek was aware of them. In fact, he placed them there as a reserve. I knew he wanted a 'control' group of people in case his changes to genetics ended with the race being in serious trouble. All I'll say is that he found a way other than changing them genetically to help them survive in the world he created. And since they were created by Ruin and Preservation, they have the seeds of the Three Metallic Arts in them—though without anyone among them having burned Lerasium, Allomancers would have been very rare in their population and full Mistborn unheard of.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

Secondly, there is a way to give yourself Feruchemy by using Scadrian god metals (maybe a Lerasium-Atium alloy). Rashek left 2 Lerasium beads at the Well, 8 or 9 were given to kings to gain their support, most likely there were originally 16 beads in the first place. That means someone used 5 or 6 of them before Rashek, and if they used Atium as well (which they could get from pre-Rashek Pits) they could theoretically gain Feruchemy this way, and start the Terris nation.

Spoiler

Yoitsthew

Would a lerasium/atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!

Brandon Sanderson

You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 30, 2020)

 

Spoiler

SageOfTheWise

Is there a reason why Rashek left a nugget of Lerasium at the Well of Ascension?

Brandon Sanderson

He left several. It was, in his opinion, one of the best kept secrets and best protected locations in his empire.

Phantine

Were there originally 16 of them?

Brandon Sanderson

An excellent guess.

/r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 11, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

What will an Atium-Lerasium Alloy do ?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Ah, I've been asked this before. There are a number of theories, but nobody's really sure, since there haven't really been any opportunities to alloy lerasium with atium. You can choose which one to believe. Most require an understanding of realmatic theory to comprehend, which you need to be a Shard or Splinter to even begin to understand.What Lerasium is, is essentially a hack for something like your spiritual DNA. It rewrites what your spiritual self is capable of. So, combined with atium, which allows you a glimpse into the vision of everything - past, present, future - the theories say it could do one of two things. It could either create a substance so volatile that it would have world-ending repercussions, or rewrite your "spiritual DNA" (his phrase, not mine) with atium's power. Is that a vague enough answer?

TWG Posts (March 23, 2010)

"Rewrite your sDNA with Atium's power" -really vague. But it makes sense. Feruchemy is of both Ruin and Preservation, almost equally. But Scadrians have Preservation's fragment in them, innate investiture of Preservation, not Ruin, giving them Allomancy, not Feruchemy. If they rewrite that with Atium's power, meaning they mixed it with Ruin's investiture, their innate investiture would be Connected to both Ruin and Preservation, thus giving them Feruchemy. It would explain why Feruchemist were never born outside of Terrisan, as the seed in their soul isn't enough for Feruchemy. But this is just wild speculation that came to me right now.

 

Another possibility is simply that one of the previous Ascendants used the power of the Well to grant himself, or the people of his choice, the power of Feruchemy. That's a really obvious answer. Rashek made himself a Mistborn using the power of the Well, so why somebody before him couldn't do the same with Feruchemy?

Spoiler

Chris King

Did the Lord Ruler use lerasium to gain his super Allomantic abilities or did he grant that to himself with the Well's power? If he used the bead, does he count as one of the nine original Allomancers that Sazed mentions?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. He did not use the bead. He-- In all of this he granted himself basically, he rebuilt himself to be extremely powerful and he did not use one of the beads.

Chris King interview (Sept. 24, 2013)

Lastly, I think it could be Preservation himself that directly invested the first Fercuchemists and gave them the power. Why? I think this might have been done at the same time when Leras created the Terris prophecies, and to ensure they will survive and remember them as best as they can, or give the Terris people some other advantage, he gave some of them the power of Feruchemy.

Spoiler

Chaos

How were the Terris Prophecies created in the first place? Every other magic related thing is quite logically explained in terms of Ruin and Preservation, except that one.

Brandon Sanderson

The Terris prophecies were created by Preservation before he attempted his imprisonment. He knew that he wouldn't be able to do much for the world after he did what he did, and he foresaw a LOT of what was to come.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

How is a new Feruchemist made?

Brandon Sanderson

What do you mean?

Questioner

Well you can make a new Mistborn by lerasium--

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, okay.  Other than through birth? That’s a RAFO, good question though.  Right now, as far as anyone knows, it’s by birth only.  But--  Well we’ll leave it there.  You know that the extra Preservation instead of Ruin had some effects on people on Scadrial.

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

[Trusk'our he/him]

8 hours ago, alder24 said:

Another possibility is simply that one of the previous Ascendants used the power of the Well to grant himself, or the people of his choice, the power of Feruchemy. That's a really obvious answer. Rashek made himself a Mistborn using the power of the Well, so why somebody before him couldn't do the same with Feruchemy?

Lastly, I think it could be Preservation himself that directly invested the first Fercuchemists and gave them the power. Why? I think this might have been done at the same time when Leras created the Terris prophecies, and to ensure they will survive and remember them as best as they can, or give the Terris people some other advantage, he gave some of them the power of Feruchemy.

The only thing I want to mention is that if Preservation's power- whether directly or through the Well- was used to make the first Feruchemists then Ruin would almost certainly have to be equally involved; Feruchemy is an equal blend of their Investiture, so it likely couldn't have been replicated by Preservation alone.

If Preservation did take this roll of making Feruchemists, Ruin must have had a hand as well, perhaps with both Shards hoping to make mortal servants capable of achieving their end goals.

[alder24]

5 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

The only thing I want to mention is that if Preservation's power- whether directly or through the Well- was used to make the first Feruchemists then Ruin would almost certainly have to be equally involved; Feruchemy is an equal blend of their Investiture, so it likely couldn't have been replicated by Preservation alone.

If Preservation did take this roll of making Feruchemists, Ruin must have had a hand as well, perhaps with both Shards hoping to make mortal servants capable of achieving their end goals.

The Terris prophecies were created before Ruin's imprisonment, so they could work together and grant people Feruchemy. However we know too little about the mechanism of how Feruchemy is granted to make that call - Preservation or Ascendant might be able to siphon some of Ruin's investiture from people's souls, or corrupt it, or something like that. We don't know if it's even needed - there are some WoBs which claim that Feruchemy is more of Preservation:

Spoiler

Questioner

What is Feruchemy, is it tied to any Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Feruchemy, is it tied to any Shard in specific? Yes, they talk about that in the books.

Questioner

Ok, it's like, of Preservation?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you could say that.

Brandon Sanderson

Because it seems like one Shard, one magic system?

Brandon Sanderson

Here's the thing, it's more that-- They, in their philosophy, say that it's kind of a hybrid between the two, but you could kind of feel that it's more--

Questioner

It seems more Preservation.

Brandon Sanderson

It seems more Preservation, but in-world they think it's kind of a hybrid. The philosophy says that one was kind of net-positive, one was kind of net-negative and one was a hybrid. That's their in-world philosophy. I personally would place it more with Preservation.

Questioner

Ok so more than one magic system can be tied to one Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. 

Questioner

Ok, that's what I wanted to know.

Brandon Sanderson

Here's the thing, the definition of magic system can be, is so fluid. Like you can look at this book and say "how many magic systems are there?". Is Surgebinding one or is it ten?

Questioner

Allomancy's 16--

Brandon Sanderson

Is Allomancy 16 or one, and things like that. So yes multiple magic systems can be tied to a Shard.

Firefight San Francisco signing (Jan. 17, 2015)

And looking for that WoB, I've found a WoB that says Feruchemy was given by Preservation, so here is our answer. I think now it makes the most sense that Preservation gave Feruchemy to people so they were able to use F-copper to remember those prophecies without changing them throughout millennia. He needed them to be free of human interference, so that when the time comes people would be able to spot changes done by Ruin.

Spoiler

NutiketAiel

For Feruchemy, can you only inherit that? Or is there another way to get it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you could obviously get it through a Hemalurgic spike.

NutiketAiel

Yeah, but that’s kind of a different thing.

Brandon Sanderson

It is hereditary, but it came from somewhere. Which is a RAFO, but it’s not a big RAFO. There’s not something you missed in the books, or anything like that. It originally came from Preservation long ago. And there are other ways to get it, but you have not missed any major plot points regarding that. Good question.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)