Aluminum and Duralumin

[BlackYeti he/him]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say Atium can be flared like other metals. He uses the words "flaring it to life" but there is no mention of any increased effect from doing so. No mention of getting any extra power, or even of reduced time. 

 

I don't think that Brandon would use a word of such significance to his magic system if that were not exactly what he was doing. The reason I think that there is no mention made of any increased effect, is that immediately after flaring his atium he burns duralumin. This certainly causes the super-massive flair of atium that you would expect duralumin to cause.

 

Also, I was saying that the power differential is based on the method of burning, not the rate of burning, and that the rate is a byproduct of the different method. That's why there are only two settings. Think of it like burning something by itself, or throwing lighter fluid on the fire. Only two options, not a temperature controlled gas stove.

 

We may be talking at cross-purposes then. I don't think anyone disagrees that there are only two levels that metals can be burned at (or three if you count duralumin). I'm just saying (and I think this is also what Voidus was saying) that those levels can be mapped onto a function of power over time.

[Voidus]

I don't think that Brandon would use a word of such significance to his magic system if that were not exactly what he was doing. The reason I think that there is no mention made of any increased effect, is that immediately after flaring his atium he burns duralumin. This certainly causes the super-massive flair of atium that you would expect duralumin to cause.

 

 

We may be talking at cross-purposes then. I don't think anyone disagrees that there are only two levels that metals can be burned at (or three if you count duralumin). I'm just saying (and I think this is also what Voidus was saying) that those levels can be mapped onto a function of power over time.

That is what I was trying to say, thanks.

But I do think it's possible that the 'flaring to life' statement was merely a regular burn, although I do think it would be possible to flare Atium I don't think most people would have bothered.

[kinxer he/him]

After reading through this, I fall in with the "function of power over time" gang. I was thinking that burning and flaring might be like phase changes in, say, water. Right before a phase change to a higher energy phase, there's a threshhold you have to cross for the phase change to occur. So possibly the amount of power output would be analagous to the phase, with concentration analagous to the energy input. If you concentrate on burning any less than that threshhold, you'll get normal power and burn rate, but once you cross that, you get a higher burn rate and more power.

That said, I also think that aluminum takes time to burn. Admittedly, it is almost certainly less time than duralumin, but still some time.

[Seonid he/him]

I don't think anyone disagrees that there are only two levels that metals can be burned at (or three if you count duralumin).

 

Actually, I think I am going to disagree that there are only two levels that metals can be burned at.

 

I am actually pretty sure that there is a continuous distribution of burn levels. I am agnostic as to whether flared metals map onto the higher levels of the distribution or if there is a separate distribution for flaring, but the multiple references to having a metal (pewter is the one most often mentioned, but tin is sometimes brought up as well) on "low burn" makes me think that the Allomancer has far more fine control over the rate of burn (and therefore over the power of the effect) then just a flared/non-flared dichotomy.

 

A second evidence is in the various strengths a Steelpull or Ironpush can be done with. The fine control evidenced by Kelsier or Zane also seems to indicate control beyond a simple flared/non-flared system.

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

I missed the references to "low burn". That is quite true. Perhaps I'm way off here.

 

The strength of Steel push and Iron pull however, I don't think are necessarily related to the level of burn. It's constantly talked about that you apply your full weight when you push or pull. However, just as physically you can apply your weight slowly, not causing as violent a reaction, I think that you can achieve a "lesser" push or pull by the same principle. The burn gives the ability to push or pull at all at an absolute power value. It's clear that the push or pull is not achieved at the moment of burn, but rather an ability gained while burning.

[Seonid he/him]

You are probably right on the Steel/Iron references there. I wonder if doing the lesser push/pull uses more/less/the same amount of metal?

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Hum... wonder what happens if a Leecher leeches an Allomancer burning duralium... Doesn't nothing happen? 

[BlackYeti he/him]

 

I am actually pretty sure that there is a continuous distribution of burn levels. I am agnostic as to whether flared metals map onto the higher levels of the distribution or if there is a separate distribution for flaring, but the multiple references to having a metal (pewter is the one most often mentioned, but tin is sometimes brought up as well) on "low burn" makes me think that the Allomancer has far more fine control over the rate of burn (and therefore over the power of the effect) then just a flared/non-flared dichotomy.

 

The way that I've been interpreting the phrase "low burn", is that they aren't concentrating on burning their metals, they just have them burning in the background as it were. We have been told that metals like pewter, which don't need conscious direction, can be burned when the Allomancer unconscious, and have seen this happen in more than once. 

 

We have been told that there are only two levels at which metal can be burned. Unless you can find an example of a metal like zinc or iron being referred to as having a low burn whilst the Allomancer is trying to do something specific with them, then I don't see this as reason enough to suppose that this is incorrect.

 

Hum... wonder what happens if a Leecher leeches an Allomancer burning duralium... Doesn't nothing happen? 

 

The same thing that happens whenever they use their power on someone: the Alomancer loses all of their metal reserves, and are therefore is no longer able to use Allomancy until they have ingested more metal. What makes you think that a different set of rules would apply to someone who is burning duralumin?

[Seonid he/him]

We have been told that there are only two levels at which metal can be burned. Unless you can find an example of a metal like zinc or iron being referred to as having a low burn whilst the Allomancer is trying to do something specific with them, then I don't see this as reason enough to suppose that this is incorrect.

 

Do we have a WoB on this?

 

I hadn't seen anything of the sort.

[Oudeis he/him]

Do we have a WoB on this?

 

I hadn't seen anything of the sort.

 

It's an inconsistency. I can't remember where, but it's expressly stated somewhere that metals only have two settings, "burn" and "flare," and that for things like Steelpushes you can only push at a certain strength. But then we see a ton of metals used "lightly" or "subtly" or pewter at its "low burn," implying degrees, and subtle steelpushes and ironpulls all over the place. I don't know what to make of it. It's just an inconsistency.

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

The way that I've been interpreting the phrase "low burn", is that they aren't concentrating on burning their metals, they just have them burning in the background as it were. We have been told that metals like pewter, which don't need conscious direction, can be burned when the Allomancer unconscious, and have seen this happen in more than once. 

 

We have been told that there are only two levels at which metal can be burned. Unless you can find an example of a metal like zinc or iron being referred to as having a low burn whilst the Allomancer is trying to do something specific with them, then I don't see this as reason enough to suppose that this is incorrect.

 

This makes far more sense to me than a continuous distribution of burn levels. Low burn could easily refer to simply burning the metal without actively attempting to use it for a certain feat. This makes sense for Tin, Pewter, Iron, Steel, Copper, Bronze, and Electrum. The other metals all really only have active uses. 

[Seonid he/him]

I asked this to Brandon at the Comic Con signing.

 

His answer: Yes, metals can be burned at a wide range of levels, but it requires a great deal of skill. So for the average Allomancer, it is as if they can only burn or flare. But as you practice and develop more control, you can start to develop fine control in how much power you can output with your metals. You can actually, with enough skill, burn all the way up to a flare, and you can push a flare higher than you otherwise could. He said burning at lower levels than the default were far more difficult, though.