Ranking the 16 Feruchemantic Abilities: What is the Best Metal?

[Koloss17 She/They]

Well, now that I’m done with my analysis of every feruchemantic ability, found here, it’s time to rank all of them! I’ll be ranking these in isolation, so assuming that the user is not dual wielding magic systems (except for F-Nicrosil, which I’ll assume is just paired with any other magic system). 

16: F-Cadmium

Its a tight race between 15th and 16th and I think Cadmium just manages to steal last. Storing breath is cool and all, but is generally only useful for either athletic activities or surviving being suffocated. And to add on to that, storing seems like a nightmare. Having to struggle to breathe and to hyperventilate just so you don’t have to later seems to be a bit much. I’ve ranked it the lowest in my daily analysis, and I stand by it. However, I do admit, it has the most potential for being used as the basis of space travel on Scadrial. But then we are getting into medallions, and that opens up a whole new can of worms.

15: F-Bronze

Wakefulness is very useful, don’t get me wrong. But compared to other things? It’s not fantastic. However, I’d say it has the potential to be good. And frankly, I’d be a happy human if I had this.

14: F-Electrum

Storing determination has a lot of potential. If we knew a bit more of how it would work, it might get a higher ranking. Right now, I’m seeing it as unlocking your full potential with what you know on one thing, at the cost of doing basically nothing or doing very bad at doing anything for a period of time. Interesting, but doesn’t exactly allow you ability you wouldn’t have otherwise, which is what holds this back.

13: F-Aluminum

I’m only putting this so high because I think there’s a lot of potential here. Identity is a very important thing in the Cosmere, and being able to manipulate that in any form is theoretically very powerful. However, we have no clue how it works, and so I can’t really rank it higher. It beats out some of the things we do know, but I can’t in good faith give it a very high spot in this ranking without knowing exactly what it does.

12: F-Bendalloy

Being able to store calories seems very nice. It doesn’t give you the ability to destroy worlds, but it sure is convenient. Overeating when you have the resources, and then not having to eat days on end just seems like something that everyone can benefit from. It’s not a crazy good power, but it sure ain’t bad.

11: F-Nicrosil 

This is another one of those abilities that I can’t put in the top 10. If we knew how it works, sure. I’d still dock it a bit for being useless (as we understand it right now) without having access to another magic system, but it would still be fairly high. Right now, we can only guess at what it can do, and that’s not enough to put it above things that we already know what they do. 

10: F-Pewter

Okay, top ten are all really tough. All of them are very solid abilities, and placing pewter so low gives me just as much pain as it does you. However, an ability that is probably just not as good as it’s allomantic counterpart that is only really useful for strictly physical jobs is a bit too limited in scope. Especially in a world where there’s guns, being able to be big and beefy can only get you so far. It is, however, still really good in certain situations.

9: F-Zinc

This is another ability that is really nice, but comes at a harsh cost. I feel like you can do stronger things with cheaper prices across other metals. Being able to think fast at the cost of thinking slow is quite the extreme.

8: F-Brass

This one has serious potential to be higher on the list. Being able to melt or set fire to things with your hands has the potential to be very powerful. Additionally, being comfortable in literally any temperature is very nice. Awesome metal, and really cool.

7: F-Copper

Being able to recall anything from memory is seriously nice. It can help with a whole range of things, and is helpful for nearly any walk of life. However, memory can only take you so far if it’s false memory. Keepers have insane memories that normal folk would not be able to match, and so @alder24 makes a fair argument that it would likely be nowhere near as strong as it is in the books because of that.

6: F-Chromium

This a lot of potential, and even with the basic idea of ‘luck’, it’s quite good. It stores Fortune, which is something we don’t quite grasp. If I knew the true ramifications of storing fortune, this has the potential to be very high on the list.

5: F-Duralumin

Connection is a seriously strong ability, in both storing and tapping. It’s solid in pretty much any situation, but it gets truly powerful when worldhopping. It is an automatic language processor and a super Rioter, as well as dulling people’s awareness of you like A-brass. However, given that I don’t know the full extent of what it can and can’t do, I’ll keep in around here.

4: F-Tin

Well, don’t tell me that I’m an unreasonable overlord. F-Tin I’d seriously good, and useful in some capacity for just about anything. However, there will always be something more useful than it in a certain task, and while I still stand by the fact that it is the most versatile metal, something like F-chromium would suit people better in many situations. However, due to the fact that the skill curve is so much higher than F-chromium, as you know exactly how it works, this will still be in the top 5. While it is initially kind of meh on its own, with years of practice, I have no doubt that it can be used to vastly assist the efficiency of just about any task.

3: F-Steel

As @Trusk'our has rightly argued, this is one of the most powerful feruchemantic abilities when tapped. It is the undisputed champion of combat, and it is just really convenient in general. It does seem annoying to store, but when the advantage is so great, it is likely worth it.

2: F-Iron

Now, this is the single most documented metal, so that might influence things, but it is still just really good. Having upsides when storing and tapping is very strong, and I can see a use in just about any task (aside from politics or IT, I suppose). But any task that requires movement will benefit from this metal, and it is the key to space travel, so I’d say that influences things a lot.

1: F-Gold

Now, I freely admit that I am biased towards metals that are easy to store, or even have advantages when stored. But when the advantage is temporary immortality, there are very few prices that would not be worth paying. And if you have to be sniffly for a day or two, it is 1000% worth it for instantly recovering from sickness or injury. This is easily second place.

And that’s the list! Let me know if you would change things, and in all likelihood, I’ll end up shimmying this ranking around. I’ll be keeping a log of the changes made to this as little notes at the bottom here, so that we can see what the history of this is. For now though, let me know your thoughts! Let the arguments begin!

Edit 1: shifted F-Steel to 5th place

Edit 2: dropped F-copper to 7th place, and dropped F-Tin to 4th place. F-Tin is still supreme, but not in this battle.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Koloss17

[Hmmm lies she/her]

I do love F-copper, although F-duralumin would need to be unkeyed to be really useful, you can only store Connection with things you are already Connected to, so you couldn't just learn new languages. F-tin I would love mostly so I could taste delicious foods even more. I suppose when F-tin is more like 5 different things, it does get a bit higher. Still, I think F-bronze should be one of the best, you basically get to have your sleep schedule be whatever you want.  (Also for 14 I think you mean electrum)

[Trusk'our he/him]

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

9: F-Steel

This is another heartbreaking placement. F-steel is an insane ability, but here’s what’s holding it back: storing it sounds like a nightmare. To get the speeds you need to be truly impressive and not just slightly useful, you would need to be insanely slow for an extended period of time. However, I am more than open to placing this higher if a good enough argument is presented.

I feel that F-steel deserves a significantly higher position on the list. There are two reasons behind this reasoning; first of all, I don't believe that need to increase your speed more than double or triple the normal amount to see a very powerful advantage. Even that amount would let you overwhelm almost anyone else in melee combat, let you move quickly enough to blur out of gunfire (not actually allowing you to dodge bullets at those speeds, but it would make you very hard to track or aim at effectively), could let you move around more quickly than anyone but skilled Coinshots on the battlefield, and you could easily draw, aim, and fire a gun before your enemy. It's a very, very powerful combat metal.

Plus, F-steel could be useful for a whole plethora of more mundane situations. After all, what's nicer than an employee who can put together plates of food faster than anyone else? Who can load a cart in a fraction of the time it takes others? Who can get shoes shined in a few seconds before you enter a business meeting? Basically, any physical labor that needs to be done could potentially be done more quickly by a Steelrunner (in fact, The Two Seasons paper in TLM mentions that Steelrunners are, apparently, used to deliver food to some people from the Steel Kitchen. I would imagine that there must be a way to consistently use their powers to be reliable in a professional setting).

The second point I'd like to make is that I think that there are a number of situations where you could store F-steel but not get a serious drawback. As the increase of mental speed is primarily due to the power redirecting a portion of the Investiture to adapt the Feruchemist to use their power, I don't think that mental speed would be greatly hampered by physical speed storage. 

Basically, any mental task is going to be largely unaffected by F-steel storage, so reading books, sitting a car/train/boat/plain as a passenger, working on school, or working at a desk job will not be impeded significantly by the lack of physical speed, and having something else to do that doesn't require physical speed would make storing much easier, as you could take your mind off of being so slow. Additionally, if a Feruchemist storing speed runs into difficulty functioning while in such a state (such as needing to turn a page in a book or sign a document), they can always stop storing until it's convenient again, flicking their Feruchemy on and off at a moment's notice.

This doesn't mean that F-steel is necessarily easy to store, but I don't think that it's that big a deal, especially for the great power it yields in return.

10 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

It is the most versatile metal, that is undisputed, but it is also just really good at being versatile.

I wish to dispute this previously undisputed idea ; I do not believe that F-tin is the most versatile metal.

That would have to go to F-chromium for giving precognitive hunches to basically any situation, F-electrum for allowing a person to push their own boundaries, again, in basically any situation, or F-duralumin for giving a limited ability to essentially edit one's Spiritweb via conscious Connection manipulation. Again, useful for nearly any situation, though it would probably require a deep understanding of Cosmere Realmatics.

F-tin is nice, and in addition to simply enhancing senses I think that there are some really cool hacks to use with it, such as increasing balance to become naturally acrobatic (basically what A-pewter does but on steroids), making yourself immune to pain, and perhaps selectively dampening senses to allow for fewer distractions when needing to focus on your inner thoughts.

Additionally, F-tin can't pull off Feruchemy's craziest feats; F-gold lets you survive almost anything, F-steel turns you into a speedster, F-copper lets you retain and use your knowledge way better, and F-chromium can give you a form of precognition.

All in all, F-tin is useful, but I don't believe that it truly deserves to be Feruchemy's #1 metal. Can you prove me wrong @Koloss17?

Edited November 15, 2023 by Trusk'our
Made minor modifications to speech and dropped about a half dozen unnecessary brackets.

[YeomanoftheBowman he/him]

I’m still on the side of F-steel. Sure, it’s a pain to store, but super speed is such a ridiculously useful ability in so many areas. Look at the aftermath of Winsting Innate’s auction. You just can’t do much about a steelrunner with a good amount of speed stored up.

 

[Koloss17 She/They]

9 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I feel that F-steel deserves a significantly higher position on the list. There are two reasons behind this reasoning; first of all, I don't believe that need to increase your speed more than double or triple the normal amount to see a very powerful advantage. Even that amount would let you overwhelm almost anyone else in melee combat, let you move quickly enough to blur out of gunfire (not actually allowing you to dodge bullets at those speeds, but it would make you very hard to track or aim at effectively), could let you move around more quickly than anyone but skilled Coinshots on the battlefield, and you could easily draw, aim, and fire a gun before your enemy. It's a very, very powerful combat metal.

Plus, F-steel could be useful for a whole plethora of more mundane situations. After all, what's nicer than an employee who can put together plates of food faster than anyone else? Who can load a cart in a fraction of the time it takes others? Who can get shoes shined in a few seconds before you enter a business meeting? Basically, any physical labor that needs to be done could potentially be done more quickly by a Steelrunner (in fact, The Two Seasons paper in TLM mentions that Steelrunners are, apparently, used to deliver food to some people from the Steel Kitchen. I would imagine that there must be a way to consistently use their powers to be reliable in a professional setting).

The second point I'd like to make is that I think that there are a number of situations where you could store F-steel but not get a serious drawback. As the increase of mental speed is primarily due to the power redirecting a portion of the Investiture to adapt the Feruchemist to use their power, I don't think that mental speed would be greatly hampered by physical speed storage. 

Basically, any mental task is going to be largely unaffected by F-steel storage, so reading books, sitting a car/train/boat/plain as a passenger, working on school, or working at a desk job will not be impeded significantly by the lack of physical speed, and having something else to do that doesn't require physical speed would make storing much easier, as you could take your mind off of being so slow. Additionally, if a Feruchemist storing speed runs into difficulty functioning while in such a state (such as needing to turn a page in a book or sign a document), they can always stop storing until it's convenient again, flicking their Feruchemy on and off at a moment's notice.

This doesn't mean that F-steel is necessarily easy to store, but I don't think that it's that big a deal, especially for the great power it yields in return.

I find this argument compelling. How much higher do you think it deserves to be?

Quote

I wish to dispute this previously undisputed idea ; I do not believe that F-tin is the most versatile metal.

That would have to go to F-chromium for giving precognitive hunches to basically any situation, F-electrum for allowing a person to push their own boundaries, again, in basically any situation, or F-duralumin for giving a limited ability to essentially edit one's Spiritweb via conscious Connection manipulation. Again, useful for nearly any situation, though it would probably require a deep understanding of Cosmere Realmatics.

F-tin is nice, and in addition to simply enhancing senses I think that there are some really cool hacks to use with it, such as increasing balance to become naturally acrobatic (basically what A-pewter does but on steroids), making yourself immune to pain, and perhaps selectively dampening senses to allow for fewer distractions when needing to focus on your inner thoughts.

Additionally, F-tin can't pull off Feruchemy's craziest feats; F-gold lets you survive almost anything, F-steel turns you into a speedster, F-copper lets you retain and use your knowledge way better, and F-chromium can give you a form of precognition.

All in all, F-tin is useful, but I don't believe that it truly deserves to be Feruchemy's #1 metal. Can you prove me wrong @Koloss17?

Would you believe me that this post was not meant to be more F-Tin propaganda? I understand if you don’t, but now, you’ve forced my hand.

So what makes F-Tin the most versatile metal is the fact that storing is just as, if not occasionally more useful as tapping. There are plenty instances where you can easily store every possible sense, as well as actively benefiting from it! I doubt that there is a very easy way to run out of any of your tinminds. Also, we are an insanely sensory species, and so having the ability to manipulate that allows for a massive increase in capability. The limitations with Duralumin and Electrum is that they make everything better when you tap it, but consequently make everything worse when storing. With Chromium, I don’t think we really know how it works with futuresight just yet, and if a chromium Ferring would be able to use that or not.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

I find this argument compelling. How much higher do you think it deserves to be?

I believe that it should at least be in the top three; F-gold and F-duralumin are extremely capable as well, though I don't know which of the three comes out on top.

Also, I'd like to interject that F-aluminum and F-nicrosil are primarily useful when used either in conjunction with magitech, Hemalurgy, or used by Fullborn/Halfborn/Twinborn/Full Feruchemists, so if we're talking about them in the context of a single powered Ferring I'd give them a pretty low ranking on the scale. 

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

Would you believe me that this post was not meant to be more F-Tin propaganda? I understand if you don’t, but now, you’ve forced my hand.

Oh no, I done ticked off an angry Windwhisperer Koloss 

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

So what makes F-Tin the most versatile metal is the fact that storing is just as, if not occasionally more useful as tapping. There are plenty instances where you can easily store every possible sense, as well as actively benefiting from it!

May you provide examples?

The reason I think F-steel wouldn't be too bad to store in many cases is because it doesn't slow mental speed of the Feruchemist, so tasks that require such an attribute would be possible to complete. That means you could simply use your time performing those tasks to save up some physical speed while still being productive.

Contrarily, F-tin would actually dampen your senses, which is not a useful thing in most circumstances (I can imagine at least a few, but I'd like to give you a chance to give your examples first).

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

The limitations with Duralumin and Electrum is that they make everything better when you tap it, but consequently make everything worse when storing.

That's certainly true for electrum; while tapping it could potentially be very powerful depending on the individual, storing it without a hack of some kind definitely limits its usefulness for overall productivity (this is the biggest reason I feel it doesn't deserve to be in the top three metals).

I don't know about duralumin though, as storing it can be useful in many situations. You could dampen other's awareness of you to sneak past guards or would be assassins, you could store your Connection to the angry boss of the office to get them to overlook you, and you could store Connection to others to form an unbiased (lol, at least as much as possible ) argument/judgement.

Additionally, even if you couldn't find storing Connection useful in and of itself in too many situations, it doesn't seem to be particularly bad in most cases either. This could change as we discover more about it in the future, but for now this is my current understanding.

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

With Chromium, I don’t think we really know how it works with futuresight just yet, and if a chromium Ferring would be able to use that or not.

That's fair. We don't really know a whole lot about it yet, so giving it a really high ranking probably isn't the wises decision.

[Koloss17 She/They]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

 

 

May you provide examples?

The reason I think F-steel wouldn't be too bad to store in many cases is because it doesn't slow mental speed of the Feruchemist, so tasks that require such an attribute would be possible to complete. That means you could simply use your time performing those tasks to save up some physical speed while still being productive.

Contrarily, F-tin would actually dampen your senses, which is not a useful thing in most circumstances (I can imagine at least a few, but I'd like to give you a chance to give your examples first).

Have you not read the sacred texts? I provide plenty an example. But, if you insist, I shall rehash them.

Sight: there are admittedly few points in which is would be useful to dim your sight, but depending on if you could create biological shades with it, it could be nice. Do we know if that works? Not really. It seems very possible though, especially with the right intent.

For actual sight, F-Tin works differently than A-Tin. When tapping, it basically acts as binoculars, removing near sight, and amplifying far sight. When storing, it would be basically equivalent to making you nearsighted, which we have already discovered a host of ways to fix (glasses, monocles, you know the gist) so overall, really easy to store.

Smell: often, you really don’t need your sense of smell. And depending on where you are, it might be advantageous to not smell what’s around…

Hearing: Dampening loud noises, turning off your hearing to better focus on a particular task, or just to better ignore someone that you don’t like!

Taste: eating something you don’t like? Not eating anything at the moment? Store away.

Touch: again, touching something unpleasant, improving focus, and dissipating itchiness are all good times to store your touchminds.

Pain: it’s the only thing that you actively want to store and never touch, completely breaking the net neutrality of Feruchemy!!

Balance/Proprioception: easy to store when sitting down, which is a pretty common position to be in.

Where storing F-Tin can actually improve your focus, storing F-Steel would absolutely obliterate my focus. Typing, playing a board game, or even just reading, when I go to move something, it being infuriatingly slow? That sounds insanely irritating. Additionally, though I’m sure intent would make this not matter, does storing F-steel decrease your eye speed? Do you lock onto or look at something slower? Probably not, but if so, that sounds like a new level of annoying.

[Trusk'our he/him]

29 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Have you not read the sacred texts? I provide plenty an example. But, if you insist, I shall rehash them.

Oh come now @Koloss17, I know you love to preach about F-tin's uses as much as I love to binge-talk about Hemalurgy 

30 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Sight: there are admittedly few points in which is would be useful to dim your sight, but depending on if you could create biological shades with it, it could be nice. Do we know if that works? Not really. It seems very possible though, especially with the right intent.

For actual sight, F-Tin works differently than A-Tin. When tapping, it basically acts as binoculars, removing near sight, and amplifying far sight. When storing, it would be basically equivalent to making you nearsighted, which we have already discovered a host of ways to fix (glasses, monocles, you know the gist) so overall, really easy to store.

Smell: often, you really don’t need your sense of smell. And depending on where you are, it might be advantageous to not smell what’s around…

Hearing: Dampening loud noises, turning off your hearing to better focus on a particular task, or just to better ignore someone that you don’t like!

Taste: eating something you don’t like? Not eating anything at the moment? Store away.

Touch: again, touching something unpleasant, improving focus, and dissipating itchiness are all good times to store your touchminds.

Pain: it’s the only thing that you actively want to store and never touch, completely breaking the net neutrality of Feruchemy!!

Balance/Proprioception: easy to store when sitting down, which is a pretty common position to be in.

All valid reasons to use F-tin. I personally still feel like there are other metals that are either more versatile or can pull of more powerful feats, but tin is undeniably useful metal in many situations.

32 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Where storing F-Tin can actually improve your focus, storing F-Steel would absolutely obliterate my focus. Typing, playing a board game, or even just reading, when I go to move something, it being infuriatingly slow? That sounds insanely irritating. Additionally, though I’m sure intent would make this not matter, does storing F-steel decrease your eye speed? Do you lock onto or look at something slower? Probably not, but if so, that sounds like a new level of annoying.

Eh, if you do a lot of thinking and non-physical activities, I don't think it would be the worst thing to store some physical speed while doing so. Plus, you can just stop storing if you need to move your hand to mobilize game pieces or turn a page. Might be slightly problematic, but I figure one could learn to get used to it, especially considering the payoff.

As for eye speed, yes, that should be effected too as it's a form of physical movement, though considering the speed at which your eyes normally move it wouldn't be a massive issue in most cases (again, you can tactically stop storing speed for a moment or two to get the movement you need in).

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

Have you not read the sacred texts? I provide plenty an example. But, if you insist, I shall rehash them.

I'm gonna join here, and say something blasphemous. All those things are nice and neat, but they are rather small, a slight quality of life changes, not something big and significant. I'm telling you this as a nearsighted person wearing glasses, who isn't really bothered by them anymore. I don't have many situations in life when I wish I had a better sight, I adapted and I'm managing even in situations where I don't wear glasses. Do you need a binocular sight that often? Not really, if you do you certainly have real binoculars. The same goes with the smell and taste, which is troubled by allergies - I already have no smelling on some days. If you smell an odor for long enough, you eventually stop noticing it - that's how your brain works. In the long run it's not a big deal, it's handy for a moment and that's it. Unless you want to replace drug seeking dogs, you also don't need to have 10x better smelling (dogs are much better than 10x, you can't replace them even with F-tin). Hearing better is nice, not hearing is also nice, depending on the situation. Better sense of touch? Sure, you can sense the texture better, feel the breeze on your skin or something like that - for what? I don't really need it, unless I just want to feel nice on a beach. Storing pain is probably the best there is about F-tin, but also really dangerous - you can sustain or worsen injuries if you're not careful. There are some other senses that you could probably influence with F-tin, but they are of even less importance. All are great changes, but small and they don't really change much in your life, unless you have a profession of a guard, spy or something like that. In your daily life F-tin is just convenient, that's it.

Compare it to F-pewter which allows you to become much stronger - every physical worker would benefit from this. You don't need to call your neighbor to lift a couch, you do it yourself with a single hand. You can be an insane rescue worker and carry two people at once, lift collapsed rubble without sweating, save people, or just remodel your house whenever you want. It also has direct applications in fighting. It's not convenient, it's life changing. 

F-steel, being several times faster than normal is a big thing. You won't use it everyday, but when you do, you will never be late, you can outrun cars, you can double or triple the efficiency of your physical work, or react to sudden and unexpected situations with precision. In combat being faster than your opponent more than often will guarantee you a victory and might give you a solid boost to your physical strikes as you drastically increasing their kinetic energy.

F-duralumin basically turns you into a social butterfly, or into a silent type that can sneak past everyone unnoticeable. You can modify your spirit web, strengthen or weaken every Connection you have, and we still don't know what this can do in the fullest. 

Even F-zinc (which I will admit, I'm biased, I'm a big fan of it) will be more useful than F-tin. It makes you think faster, draw connections and conclusions faster, analyze complex information better. It will help you with conversations, planning, developing new ideas, mathematics, philosophy and your job - it's useful in so many situations for everyone. Every mental task of yours will be done better and faster with F-zinc, even reading or remembering things (I mean that sometimes you need to think longer when you try to remember something - you can shorten that time of thinking). It's even useful in fighting as it allows you to analyze your situation, positioning or enemy moves much faster than they can, giving you an advantage in fighting, and allowing you to better predict their next step - both on the big and personal scale - you can become Napoleon if you want. And you can shut off your thinking by storing if you don't want to think too much. In my opinion F-zinc gives you more than F-tin.

Sure, F-tin is very versatile, affecting many aspects of your body, but in general this isn't a big deal. Your life gets better, for some people it's more beneficial than to others, but I don't see it as a life changing power. A handy thing to have for sure, it will make your life nicer, you can have some fun with it, but generally that's it. In my opinion it doesn't deserve the number 1 position on the list. 

 

A side note about F-copper, I think you overestimate how great it is and you're not taking into account the insane memorisation skills Sazed has. Having a coppermind is handy, but not when you are just bad at memorizing, and the memory you want will fade after 2 or 3 times of tapping. Unfortunately this doesn't work well with people who have a bad memory, you need to work on it first and improve your memorisation skills to be just half as good as Sazed. Without that it's still handy and very helpful, but those memories will fade and be distorted faster than you expect. 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Forty-Nine - Part One

Sazed's Memorization Skills

Okay, long chapter here. I'll bet I have to split this annotation in two. But, let's launch into it. First off, you should know that Sazed tends to gloss over just how hard he had to work to memorize those copperminds of his in the first place. Keepers like him go through intense memorization training early in their lives, learning how to build near-photographic memories even before they use their metalminds. The goal of this, of course, is to train the mind to hold a perfect image of what it has read so that knowledge can be kept as pristine as possible before being shoved into the coppermind.

Generally, a Keeper can keep the entire contents of several books memorized in their head even without use of Feruchemy. Like a Muslim who memorizes the Koran, Sazed could take a book and memorize it word for word, then repeat it all back to you. He's trained himself in this skill for so long, however, that it seems mundane to him. Beyond that, the application of Feruchemy changes his abilities—and how he uses them—somewhat.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Dec. 24, 2009)

[Zapata]

14 hours ago, alder24 said:

A side note about F-copper, I think you overestimate how great it is and you're not taking into account the insane memorisation skills Sazed has. Having a coppermind is handy, but not when you are just bad at memorizing, and the memory you want will fade after 2 or 3 times of tapping. Unfortunately this doesn't work well with people who have a bad memory, you need to work on it first and improve your memorisation skills to be just half as good as Sazed. Without that it's still handy and very helpful, but those memories will fade and be distorted faster than you expect. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Forty-Nine - Part One

Sazed's Memorization Skills

Okay, long chapter here. I'll bet I have to split this annotation in two. But, let's launch into it. First off, you should know that Sazed tends to gloss over just how hard he had to work to memorize those copperminds of his in the first place. Keepers like him go through intense memorization training early in their lives, learning how to build near-photographic memories even before they use their metalminds. The goal of this, of course, is to train the mind to hold a perfect image of what it has read so that knowledge can be kept as pristine as possible before being shoved into the coppermind.

Generally, a Keeper can keep the entire contents of several books memorized in their head even without use of Feruchemy. Like a Muslim who memorizes the Koran, Sazed could take a book and memorize it word for word, then repeat it all back to you. He's trained himself in this skill for so long, however, that it seems mundane to him. Beyond that, the application of Feruchemy changes his abilities—and how he uses them—somewhat.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Dec. 24, 2009)

This is probably true. For someone without a photographic memory or intense memory training, the most use a coppermind would get is probably to store the contents of a textbook chapter into the coppermind, then tap while taking a test. And for most people, this would be a one-time use memory. I kind of doubt that most people could keep a library or even a book's worth of content in a coppermind forever the way Keepers do.

[Koloss17 She/They]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:31 PM, alder24 said:

I'm gonna join here, and say something blasphemous. All those things are nice and neat, but they are rather small, a slight quality of life changes, not something big and significant. I'm telling you this as a nearsighted person wearing glasses, who isn't really bothered by them anymore. I don't have many situations in life when I wish I had a better sight, I adapted and I'm managing even in situations where I don't wear glasses. Do you need a binocular sight that often? Not really, if you do you certainly have real binoculars. The same goes with the smell and taste, which is troubled by allergies - I already have no smelling on some days. If you smell an odor for long enough, you eventually stop noticing it - that's how your brain works. In the long run it's not a big deal, it's handy for a moment and that's it. Unless you want to replace drug seeking dogs, you also don't need to have 10x better smelling (dogs are much better than 10x, you can't replace them even with F-tin). Hearing better is nice, not hearing is also nice, depending on the situation. Better sense of touch? Sure, you can sense the texture better, feel the breeze on your skin or something like that - for what? I don't really need it, unless I just want to feel nice on a beach. Storing pain is probably the best there is about F-tin, but also really dangerous - you can sustain or worsen injuries if you're not careful. There are some other senses that you could probably influence with F-tin, but they are of even less importance. All are great changes, but small and they don't really change much in your life, unless you have a profession of a guard, spy or something like that. In your daily life F-tin is just convenient, that's it.

Compare it to F-pewter which allows you to become much stronger - every physical worker would benefit from this. You don't need to call your neighbor to lift a couch, you do it yourself with a single hand. You can be an insane rescue worker and carry two people at once, lift collapsed rubble without sweating, save people, or just remodel your house whenever you want. It also has direct applications in fighting. It's not convenient, it's life changing. 

F-steel, being several times faster than normal is a big thing. You won't use it everyday, but when you do, you will never be late, you can outrun cars, you can double or triple the efficiency of your physical work, or react to sudden and unexpected situations with precision. In combat being faster than your opponent more than often will guarantee you a victory and might give you a solid boost to your physical strikes as you drastically increasing their kinetic energy.

F-duralumin basically turns you into a social butterfly, or into a silent type that can sneak past everyone unnoticeable. You can modify your spirit web, strengthen or weaken every Connection you have, and we still don't know what this can do in the fullest. 

Even F-zinc (which I will admit, I'm biased, I'm a big fan of it) will be more useful than F-tin. It makes you think faster, draw connections and conclusions faster, analyze complex information better. It will help you with conversations, planning, developing new ideas, mathematics, philosophy and your job - it's useful in so many situations for everyone. Every mental task of yours will be done better and faster with F-zinc, even reading or remembering things (I mean that sometimes you need to think longer when you try to remember something - you can shorten that time of thinking). It's even useful in fighting as it allows you to analyze your situation, positioning or enemy moves much faster than they can, giving you an advantage in fighting, and allowing you to better predict their next step - both on the big and personal scale - you can become Napoleon if you want. And you can shut off your thinking by storing if you don't want to think too much. In my opinion F-zinc gives you more than F-tin.

Sure, F-tin is very versatile, affecting many aspects of your body, but in general this isn't a big deal. Your life gets better, for some people it's more beneficial than to others, but I don't see it as a life changing power. A handy thing to have for sure, it will make your life nicer, you can have some fun with it, but generally that's it. In my opinion it doesn't deserve the number 1 position on the list. 

 

A side note about F-copper, I think you overestimate how great it is and you're not taking into account the insane memorisation skills Sazed has. Having a coppermind is handy, but not when you are just bad at memorizing, and the memory you want will fade after 2 or 3 times of tapping. Unfortunately this doesn't work well with people who have a bad memory, you need to work on it first and improve your memorisation skills to be just half as good as Sazed. Without that it's still handy and very helpful, but those memories will fade and be distorted faster than you expect. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Forty-Nine - Part One

Sazed's Memorization Skills

Okay, long chapter here. I'll bet I have to split this annotation in two. But, let's launch into it. First off, you should know that Sazed tends to gloss over just how hard he had to work to memorize those copperminds of his in the first place. Keepers like him go through intense memorization training early in their lives, learning how to build near-photographic memories even before they use their metalminds. The goal of this, of course, is to train the mind to hold a perfect image of what it has read so that knowledge can be kept as pristine as possible before being shoved into the coppermind.

Generally, a Keeper can keep the entire contents of several books memorized in their head even without use of Feruchemy. Like a Muslim who memorizes the Koran, Sazed could take a book and memorize it word for word, then repeat it all back to you. He's trained himself in this skill for so long, however, that it seems mundane to him. Beyond that, the application of Feruchemy changes his abilities—and how he uses them—somewhat.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Dec. 24, 2009)

All right all right, I’ll bring F-Tin down a few notches. As much as I hate to admit it, you make good points. Now, don’t get me wrong, I think F-Tin is the best, but maybe not when it’s only F-Tin. It still would be my first pick.

 

And yeah, copper should be lower down.

[Trusk'our he/him]

56 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

All right all right, I’ll bring F-Tin down a few notches. As much as I hate to admit it, you make good points. Now, don’t get me wrong, I think F-Tin is the best, but maybe not when it’s only F-Tin. It still would be my first pick.

 

And yeah, copper should be lower down.

And F-steel should be up?

[Koloss17 She/They]

6 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

And F-steel should be up?

I mean, F-steel’s third place. Do you want it to be higher than that?

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

I mean, F-steel’s third place. Do you want it to be higher than that?

At least #2 

(Also, I didn't see that you'd edited the first post- oops; I had assumed that you would make a new, separate list, but what you've done works better. But I still stand by F-steel being second place with F-iron being third)

[Koloss17 She/They]

Just now, Trusk'our said:

At least #2 

(Also, I didn't see that you'd edited the first post- oops; I had assumed that you would make a new, separate list, but what you've done works better. But I still stand by F-steel being second place with F-iron being third)

Eh, you might be right. We’ll see what others point out.

[Trusk'our he/him]

What are your opinions on F-steel's ranking @alder24, @Treamayne, and @Quantus?

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

All right all right, I’ll bring F-Tin down a few notches. As much as I hate to admit it, you make good points. Now, don’t get me wrong, I think F-Tin is the best, but maybe not when it’s only F-Tin. It still would be my first pick.

 

And yeah, copper should be lower down.

Yes! Another glorious victory for mind and zinc! Zincpremacy will rule over all cults (joke)!  

Thanks for reconsideration.

10 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

What are your opinions on F-steel's ranking @alder24, @Treamayne, and @Quantus?

Honestly I don't believe F-iron should even be above F-pewter! Why? Strength before weakness!!! For me the best candidates for top 1 are (in no particular order) F-zinc (ok, now there is no order), F-steel, F-pewter, F-duralumin and F-gold (which Koloss graded fairly so I didn't go in details why it's better than F-tin in my previous post). F-iron sure is useful, but I think we're biased because of Wax and how well it worked with A-steel. Alone it has some handy uses, but isn't nearly as useful as F-pewter or F-steel. 

[Koloss17 She/They]

48 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes! Another glorious victory for mind and zinc! Zincpremacy will rule over all cults (joke)!  

Thanks for reconsideration.

Honestly I don't believe F-iron should even be above F-pewter! Why? Strength before weakness!!! For me the best candidates for top 1 are (in no particular order) F-zinc (ok, now there is no order), F-steel, F-pewter, F-duralumin and F-gold (which Koloss graded fairly so I didn't go in details why it's better than F-tin in my previous post). F-iron sure is useful, but I think we're biased because of Wax and how well it worked with A-steel. Alone it has some handy uses, but isn't nearly as useful as F-pewter or F-steel. 

My main concern with F-pewter is that it’s only useful for physical tasks. F-Iron helps with physical tasks and assists with other tasks, leaving it good at more things than F-pewter.

[alder24]

13 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

My main concern with F-pewter is that it’s only useful for physical tasks. F-Iron helps with physical tasks and assists with other tasks, leaving it good at more things than F-pewter.

Highly disagree. F-iron doesn't make you stronger, you're changing only your strength to weight ratio, which only helps you with certain, specific physical activities, like running or lifting yourself up, and that's generally it - you can't lift, pull or push heavier things, it won't help you with a shovel or an axe etc. F-pewter completely changes the equation, any physical activity gets easier, you're simply stronger and there is no limit to your strength (compared to F-iron). F-pewter also changes your mass as you're literally storing your muscles, changing in size. F-pewter gives you some limited applications of F-iron because of that. 

In the case of fighting, the advantage of F-iron is just non-comparable to F-pewter. Yes, you can make yourself incredibly heavy and "tank" every hit, but you can do the same with F-pewter. Yes, I agree you can punch a bit harder when tapping mass (shown by Sazed in HoA, but this is a highly disputed topic) because of F=ma, but F-pewter makes it even more powerful as it changes both acceleration and mass. You can also deliver much more kinetic energy via F-pewter. Additionally the change in mass in F-iron is to your whole body, thus the force you get from increasing your mass isn't proportional to the change of mass - only a part of it will deliver a punch. Your punch will be slightly stronger, but as soon as you tap so much weight that it would slow you down, all of this advantage will be lost (as kinetic energy is E=mv^2/2). F-pewter also slows you down, however it keeps increasing your strength, thus this balancing limit of strength and speed would be lifted much higher - the muscles are delivering all of the force, not just your weight. Basically all advantages of F-iron in combat are also present to a much greater degree in F-pewter - you can even punch through walls or floors, just like F-iron can.

The only cool thing that you can't replicate with F-pewter is fall from any height - but let's be real, how often do you need it? And I see no reason why "space travel" matters in the case of F-iron. None. Why is it the argument for the good position of F-iron? You can't change the mass of an entire spacecraft with your F-iron alone. 70kg less won't change that much compared to the whole 2.8 million kg of a fully loaded Saturn V rocket. 

In my opinion F-iron is just a mid-tier metal, at best. It's incredible when combined with A-steel or A-iron, but on its own it's just handy.

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

What are your opinions on F-steel's ranking @alder24, @Treamayne, and @Quantus?

As all y'all may (or may not) have noticed, I am not a fan of "Vs" threads and am even less inclined to rank things like manifestations of investiture (MoI) - either within a system or between systems. I feel the entire process is a slap-in-the-face to what is, to me, one of Sanderson's primary points in the Cosmere (as a whole) - that nearly every MoI

• Has strengths
• Has weaknesses
• Can be "the best" option in a situation that reinforces the former and minimizes the latter

There is no "best" anything, there can only be "best in this situation."

---

That said - I have not read the analysis thread referenced in the OP but based on this thread I would say that Steelrunning is very overrated. Any analysis of F-Steel needs to focus on Sazed's scenes in WoA and HoA since "Bleeder" is an exception to almost every point because:

• She did not use F-Steel - she used a hacked Hf-Steel
• That Hf-Steel was Trellium-based
• She used Idashwy's metalminds and did not need to store her own
  • We cannot realibly identify events of that book as applicable to an everage Steelrunner - or specific to how Bleeder accessed and used the ability - based on current information.

So, to be any more specific I would need to know what criteria are being used to make the ranking (use in combat, use in daily life, use solo with no other interactions, use as 1/2 of a twinborn set, etc.) - but, to me, in a "what is useful for an average person on an average day" steel might not make the top half of that list (likely 6-10 range). I feel like F-Steel is one of the abilities that is much stronger in tandem than it would be if that was the only MoI you could access. 

[Quantus he/him]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:54 AM, Trusk'our said:

What are your opinions on F-steel's ranking @alder24, @Treamayne, and @Quantus?

Im late to the party, sorry.  Off the top of my head I'm struggling to get better than a Tier list, because several are equally useful depending on your goals and lifestyle.

• S-Tier:  Supremely Useful to Anyone
  • F-Gold - Anyone can make use of stockpiled Health.
  • F-Chromium(Probably) - We dont know the specifics for limitations, but most variations I can think of are still universally useful.
  • F-Duralumin (With Blank Connection) - If you can Blank you Connections to attach them to different/local things like the Medallions do, this becomes so weirdly and broadly useful it would change the whole experience of life.
• A-Tier:  Supremely useful within it's domain, depends on what facet of life you most value.
  • F-Tin
  • F-Steel
  • F-Zinc
  • F-Duralumin (WithOUT Blank Connection) - EDIT:  If you can only strengthen and weaken your own existing Connections, it can still be helpful in a broad swath of Social experiences, but it's not quite as transcendently awesome as Blank Connection could become.  
• B-Tier - Solidly useful but a little more niche, you'd need to want it for your own reasons
  • F-Pewter - It would be A-Tier but it has an upper limit to tapping because it eventually makes you too bulky to move and doesnt provide the Healing, etc. of A-Pewter.  Unlike Tin where the effects are distinct but equally useful, F-Pewter always seemed the clear lesser of the two.
  • F-Iron - You can be stupid heavy to counter strength or you can be feather light to increase mobility some.  It's sort of the half-class option between Steel and Pewter, but inferior to both. 
  • F-Copper
  • F-Duralumin (Without Blank Connection)
• C Tier - Useful to some or in specific circumstances.
  • F-Brass
  • F-Bronze
  • F-Cadmium
  • F-Bendalloy
  • F-Electrum
  • F-Atium
• D-Tier - Probably doesnt do anything really useful on it's own.
  • F-Nicrosil

Edited December 19, 2023 by Quantus

[Duxredux he/him]

On 11/18/2023 at 11:20 AM, Treamayne said:

As all y'all may (or may not) have noticed, I am not a fan of "Vs" threads and am even less inclined to rank things like manifestations of investiture (MoI) - either within a system or between systems. I feel the entire process is a slap-in-the-face to what is, to me, one of Sanderson's primary points in the Cosmere (as a whole) - that nearly every MoI

• Has strengths
• Has weaknesses
• Can be "the best" option in a situation that reinforces the former and minimizes the latter

There is no "best" anything, there can only be "best in this situation."

---

That said - I have not read the analysis thread referenced in the OP but based on this thread I would say that Steelrunning is very overrated. Any analysis of F-Steel needs to focus on Sazed's scenes in WoA and HoA since "Bleeder" is an exception to almost every point because:

• She did not use F-Steel - she used a hacked Hf-Steel
• That Hf-Steel was Trellium-based
• She used Idashwy's metalminds and did not need to store her own
  • We cannot realibly identify events of that book as applicable to an everage Steelrunner - or specific to how Bleeder accessed and used the ability - based on current information.

So, to be any more specific I would need to know what criteria are being used to make the ranking (use in combat, use in daily life, use solo with no other interactions, use as 1/2 of a twinborn set, etc.) - but, to me, in a "what is useful for an average person on an average day" steel might not make the top half of that list (likely 6-10 range). I feel like F-Steel is one of the abilities that is much stronger in tandem than it would be if that was the only MoI you could access. 

I agree with this - to an extent. I rarely visit the Vs threads and generally only to suggest strategies that I haven't seen mentioned yet, not to give a conclusive "this is better" statement. This kind of ranking is how a Tineye (Spook) goes toe to toe with Thugs and surprises them with how well he fights. There isn't an objective winner, merely subjective ones. That said, this kind of ranking or gradation of utility is done all the time in the realm of economics.

To put this into context and to address the broader thread, hypothetically you are the owner of a Medallion store in downtown Elendel. How do you price your Medallions or try to market and sell your stock? Which items do you put in your store window? When you consider the cost of the metal itself, the shipping weight or volume, and what people are willing to spend, how do you make that call? While it's impossible to make an objective "best ability", there certainly can be a price tag on it.

It's barely addressed in the books, and not at all in these rankings, but what about the intrinsic cost of purchasing, owning, wearing, and maintaining Metalminds? How heavy, expensive, and corrodible is the metal? Is the application worth wearing weight training bands for significant storage or tapping? Wax is way stronger than people give him credit for since he has been doing all of his stunts, brawling, climbing ladders, and precision shooting while wearing iron bracers on his upper arms. Same with Wayne who is literally doing hand-to-hand combat while wearing solid gold. Those are factors on utility separate from the ability granted. 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

20 hours ago, Quantus said:

Im late to the party, sorry.  Off the top of my head I'm struggling to get better than a Tier list, because several are equally useful depending on your goals and lifestyle.

• S-Tier:  Supremely Useful to Anyone
  • F-Gold - Anyone can make use of stockpiled Health.
  • F-Chromium(Probably) - We dont know the specifics for limitations, but most variations I can think of are still universally useful.
  • F-Duralumin (With Blank Connection) - If you can Blank you Connections to attach them to different/local things like the Medallions do, this becomes so weirdly and broadly useful it would change the whole experience of life.
• A-Tier:  Supremely useful within it's domain, depends on what facet of life you most value.
  • F-Tin
  • F-Steel
  • F-Zinc
  • F-Duralumin (WithOUT Blank Connection) - EDIT:  If you can only strengthen and weaken your own existing Connections, it can still be helpful in a broad swath of Social experiences, but it's not quite as transcendently awesome as Blank Connection could become.  
• B-Tier - Solidly useful but a little more niche, you'd need to want it for your own reasons
  • F-Pewter - It would be A-Tier but it has an upper limit to tapping because it eventually makes you too bulky to move and doesnt provide the Healing, etc. of A-Pewter.  Unlike Tin where the effects are distinct but equally useful, F-Pewter always seemed the clear lesser of the two.
  • F-Iron - You can be stupid heavy to counter strength or you can be feather light to increase mobility some.  It's sort of the half-class option between Steel and Pewter, but inferior to both. 
  • F-Copper
  • F-Duralumin (Without Blank Connection)
• C Tier - Useful to some or in specific circumstances.
  • F-Brass
  • F-Bronze
  • F-Cadmium
  • F-Bendalloy
  • F-Electrum
  • F-Atium
• D-Tier - Probably doesnt do anything really useful on it's own.
  • F-Nicrosil

Interesting list. Combat and survival in a world of other powered individuals trying to kill you all the time I agree with this.  

The interesting thing I always found with feruchemy is how much I would want some metals in a fight but since I am 33 and never really been in a fight I have this desire to have the others all the time.  

For me in my life the S tier is:

GOLD- 100% agreed. Gold is super useful nearly all of the time.  Just sleeping wrong for a night can ruin my neck or back for days.  It is so hard to do anything following that.  The ability to tap a bit after a workout and boost the recovery time would be awesome too! 

Iron- Purely for the fun of it.  It goes back to the first time I watched the opening scene of "The Covenant" when they casually step off the side of that cliff. So epic and I just want to erase my fear of heights.  

Bendalloy- as a lover of food I would love to be able to eat everything I want, when ever I want and discard the rest.  No consequences to eating trash (gold could heal them even if there were).  

Tin- There will always be uses to turning down senses and turning up others. The possibilities here are endless.  

A tier- 

Pretty much everything in the C tier of your list for normal every day life.  I like doing survival stuff and all of the mundane metals are linked to things we take for granted... They would be immensely beneficial in minimalist outdoor living. 

Zinc would fall in here as well 

B tier-

More combat related metals and copper here.  

I don't need to have a great memory. And I don't really fight so it doesn't much matter.  Lifting heavy things for the lulz and moving would be fun. Being a speedster in house work and yard work would be beneficial. 

C tier- 

I guess the spiritual metals for me?  I would love to see what fortune actually does some day. It could be completely epic but storing it seems like that could really ruin your day fast. 

 

@Duxredux

I like the idea of looking at the economic effects and judging them by that standard.  

In the world of medallions we would probably have to ramp it up even further than just monetary value and see which of them needs to be limited via some form of regulations as well. 

While my mundane tier list says what I value in metals, the criminal or law enforcement / military applications of certain metals are spooky at best. While I am a big believer in the 2nd amendment the idea of people having unlimited access to these medallions makes the more conventional martial applications of metals that much more important. 

I sort of fear a sort of "Captain America: Civil War" type of feel for the next era but with medallions and other magitech becoming more and more popular I don't see how it can be avoided other than assuming all the people in the future of Scadial are honest peace loving folks.

Criminals will make the tech and powers dangerous and not only will economic costs matter but we will eventually see legislation placing the Waxe's and Wayne's of the future more into the criminal box than the good guy boxes.