Defiant Full Book Reactions

[Windrunner he/him]

Post your full book reactions for Defiant here. Full Cytoverse spoilers are allowed untagged in this board!

[SmilingPanda19 Hi/Ho]

My mother late last night picked up her kindle and opened Defiant. She sat there for about thirty seconds and then shut her book, laid back in bed and went. “Goodnight world.” 
She was so utterly confused and shocked with the first three paragraphs. She told me this morning that all she was thinking about was: did I miss something?

[+Child of Hodor]

42 minutes ago, SmilingPanda19 said:

My mother late last night picked up her kindle and opened Defiant. She sat there for about thirty seconds and then shut her book, laid back in bed and went. “Goodnight world.” 
She was so utterly confused and shocked with the first three paragraphs. She told me this morning that all she was thinking about was: did I miss something?

LOL I haven't reread the series since the last full novel came out. I had a similar reaction "wait she's part what now?" 

[Shard of Reading he/him]

I reread cytonic right before Defiant came out so, I remembered the shenanigans with Chet. As a whole I would rate Defiant at about an 8/10. It was really good, but not absolutely perfect. 
First the good things. I like how it ended and everyone seemed to be in a place that worked for them. Also the slugs deciding when to let everyone off of their planet was just so satisfying. I also really enjoyed spensa’s growth throughout the book, although I do think she switched from thinking “Im a weapon it doesn’t matter how I feel” to “yeah it’s fine to hang out with my friends and relax” a bit abruptly. 
And as with all Sanderson books the climax was really good. I didn’t see the twist with Brade coming, although in retrospect it makes sense. And Gran-Gran’s speech was really scudding awesome. And while I don’t like the fact that the fight with brass was cut off, I understand why Sanderson did it.  I also think the ending did a good job tying everything major up, but leaving some strings hanging for the next series. On that note, does anyone know if those will be full length books, or more around the length of skyward flight novellas?

Also, M-Bot thinks of himself as Mushroom-Bot. That’s hilarious. 

[anna she/her]

2 hours ago, Shard of Reading said:

On that note, does anyone know if those will be full length books, or more around the length of skyward flight novellas?

I've been assuming full length books, but now that I think about it I don't think anything has been said either way. I'm more wondering if the next series will pick up shortly after this, or if it'll be a Mistborn Era 2 situation and feature descendents of the Defiants instead

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

Janci's said they're full novels. 

[Ati16 he/him]

Defiant was absolutely amazing! There were so many awesome moments, like gran-gran’s speech at the end and when they gave the taynix citizenship and when Brade was about to kill the taynix and the Delvers said “SHE IS HURTING THE LITTLE DELVERS?”. Overall I’d rate it 9.5/10.

[+robardin he/him]

Overall, I liked Defiant and the way it wrapped up the main original story arc set up by Skyward.

I was far less surprised by the twists than in any of the earlier books or novellas, though; I remember being completely gobsmacked when it turned out Jorgen figured out they could teleport the entirety of Detritus - planet, platforms, and all - to another scudding solar system.

But for me, there were no Big Reveals, just minor ones or plot wrap-ups, in Defiant.

“Chet” being the Touched Delver from the end of Starsight was a big surprise to me in Cytonic; his “surviving” being “reintegrated” with the other delvers towards the end, another surprise development to me.

Given that, M-Bot becoming a self-aware AI - well, I kind of assumed that could happen, and thus probably would happen, because HOW COULD M-BOT REALLY BE DEAD?

Similarly, once we found that delvers entering the Somewhere automatically formed a “familiar shape” as an avatar in spacetime, I immediately had wondered if “Chet the Touched Delver” would now appear as “Chet Starfinder the Mustachioed Pilot”, and if “M-bot The AI Elevated In The Nowhere” would just reform a spacecraft. (Both of which happened.)

The fact that Brade was puppeting Winzik seemed apparent to me in Starsight - the only real question was “why is she willing to destroy humanity to gain behind-the-throne power in the Superiority?” An obvious answer was “not all humans, just Detritus and Spensa’s group”; and the “why” being “to fulfill the ultimate potential of a Human Conqueror of the Universe” is actually not bad.

If anything, I was a little disappointed at the end when Brade was just trapped and zapped. I mean yes, that’s what should have happened, but IMHO it would have been more in character for Brade to feign surrendering and “turning a new leaf” once she realized escaping to the Superiority was completely impossible, with the idea of then trying to take over the DDF from the inside by undermining Spensa…

It wouldn’t have worked, because Brade the Lone Human Wolf underestimated the nature of the bonds of trust between Skyward Flight, but Brade should have at least tried to play that card instead of bolting and thus drawing Spensa’s fire.

Gran-Gran’s end was awesome, and so was the “verdict” of letting the taynixes - full equal members in the alliance between them and humans, UrDail, and kitsen - judge when the abusive, formerly intergalactic “advanced” species could go off-world. As well as the delvers reaching their own accord directly with the taynixes and claiming dominion over the Nowhere.

But those were more or less logical outcomes, not surprising twists.

I would say the most “huh, wow” developments in Defiant for me were:

• Hesho being unwilling or unable to resume his former life/role and becoming Masked
• There being a faction of the Superiority already working with/for Brade in the Winzik charade
• Things that are likely to be setup for the next cycle of stories in the Cytoverse:
  • There were TWELVE “human preserve” planets?
  • Earth just disappeared at the end of the last war?
  • Who made all those “cytonic traps to Nowhere” and why?

Edited November 26, 2023 by robardin

[+Bliev she/her]

I thought Defiant was a satisfying end to this series, and wrapped it up in a very YA/Sci-Fi way, which I personally really really enjoy. Spensa's hero journey ended where it should--her finding herself, then worrying about losing her sense of belonging, then finding comfort in others was exactly where her arc needed to go, and I really enjoying that Brandon gave us a little Cyto-Sanderlanche with multiple perspectives which isn't as common in YA as it is in his high fantasy novels. Much much appreciated, because boy did I enjoy those slivers of perspective! I really liked the Brade twist, and I LOVED the "little delvers" reaction, so so great. And I have to say that I have never found anything half as adorable as the concept of the slugs. (And I can't believe that Brandon has made me find the idea of slugs adorable. Who am I now?!?) 

Did I find much of Spensa and her friends' arc "predictable"? Yeah, but I think that's the type of series it is, and I knew that coming in. I actually find these books super enjoyable reads for that reason--Cytonic as a tone shift was interesting, and not my favorite, but I liked it way more on re-read with the rest of the companion novellas, and I thought this finale brought it home really nicely. 

Finally, loved the easter eggs for future work--more humans, Old Earth, slug power? YES! 9/10. Will definitely read again!!

[Xaladin he/him]

HESHO HAS A LIGHTSABER!!!!!!!

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Defiant.

Over all, a good story.

Am I going to read it again? Maybe. I may be rereading Skyward, Starsight or the novellas and decide "I wanna see how it works fluidly together."

Before I go on about the stuff I did not like, I'll list what I did like.

I loved Hesho in this. Hesho is just amazing. I will always love him.

I loved all of the Taynix stuff. if there. They were amazing. Spensa the slug. I want plushies of skyward flight as giant slugs. That would just be amazing, please and thank you.

I adored the delvers parts in this. Especially at the end. (even if it was hindered a little by how Spensa's arc was handled there.) "THEY'RE HURTING THE LITTLE DELVERS!"

Jorgen is one of my faves, so any time he was on screen was something I liked.

Okay, I know, I know. But my favorite thing probably was Jorgen's and Spensa's relationship. I loved every bit of it. However, it did feel a little rushed, especially with where they left off in the other books. It needed a smidgeon more set up or a line saying that they'd started actually dating before. Or maybe I missed something last time I read Starsight. 

Rig was awesome. Nuff said.

SKWARD FLIGHT! Oh, I loved them. I wish we had more of them. Ned was a highlight. The Shakespeare conversation was too.

Hoid's cameo was too! and- No, I'm joking lol.

One last thing: Luna was fun.

EDIT: GRAN GRAN WAS AMAZING. I'M SORRY, HOW DID I FORGET? GRAN GRAN IS THE BEST!!!

 

Now for the stuff I did not like (sneak attack, it starts with something I did like.)

I think the first half was brilliant, amazing, and I loved it so much. However. I feel like the last half did the safe option. It felt like what he was building to in the previous books, but it just... felt off. That was, in part, to the fact that, lately, Brandon has been removing the "Sanderlanche" from his novels. He's been pacing it out more. That is the one thing I absolutely despise about his latest books. The sanderlanche was his signature, they were amazing, I loved them so much. But now that he's been pacing them out, it feels way more specifically paced out when it could have been nicely put in together. This one had more of one than, say, the Lost Metal (which had other issues, but ya know.) 

However, the previous thing extends into my next point. Spensa's arc. I feel like her arc at the beginning was phenomenal. It was working well, it was setting up some big realizations. The way the rest of her arc went was fine. It wasn't anything special imo. It was kinda like that last bit of leftovers from an amazing meal that wasn't what it was before, but it was still fairly good. What I mainly wanted was her to make more decisions. I wanted more of a resolution to what she'd done rather than giving her the tools to resolve it and half resolving it. It was like she was given a bunch of ingredients to make a pie and used half of them, making a good pie, but not the fantastic, universally loved pie it could've been. I think she needed something more that gave her more of the ability to say at the end "I'm not all the way better, but I'm getting better by each step." Basically, I want her to do

(Oathbringer spoilers)

Spoiler

Dalinar did in Oathbringer at the end. 

She just needed something that wrapped her story up more than what she got. It also kinda felt like she wasn't given as much of the reasons she needed for what she did, despite having different reasons to do things she didn't do. It felt like the motivations and outcomes were mismatched, ig.

Another thing.

BRADE BEING THE MAIN VILLAIN. AHHHH. I'm not against Brade winding up as the main antagonist at the end, but the way it was handled just... What I wanted was Winzik to be more of a presence in the book. I would've liked it better if there was some sort of actual fight between Winzik and Brade. Then again, there would've needed to be more set up for that ending. Brandon outlined himself into a box here and couldn't really do anything else, is what it looks like to me. I wanted Winzik to do more things before trade took over. If Brade killed him after there was some set up and foreshadowing for that before, I would've liked that better, but there wasn't really. I think there should've been some of that in this book, more than we got at least. It would've felt rough, but it would've worked for me better than what we got in the end.

Oh, and I feel like I have to mention this. Idk if I'm just noticing it now, but the prose in this book was the worst Sanderson prose I've ever read. There was little to no description whatsoever. I get having it like a movie and not wanting to have like Robert Jordan or Patrick Rothfuss style prose, but that doesn't mean throw away the idea of description being included. I just wanted more of that.

 

Alright. I think that's all of it.

I have no idea where I put this in my rank of the skyward books. It's so much of a roller coaster of quality that I can never actually find a good place for it, I think. My rating for it, though, is... hmm..

7/10? That feels a bit high, but 6 feels wrong. Maybe 6.5/10? 6.7/10?

I would recommend this book. I'm looking forward to what Janci has in store for us in the sequels!

Edited December 21, 2023 by Thaidakar the Ghostblood
Gran Gran defies reasons for editing

[That1Cellist he/him]

In my opinion, the book was alright. It's certainly not my favorite in the series, but I liked it a bit more than Cytonic I think. The thing with Winzik was unexpected, and while it was abrupt, I thik that it was a good choice to make from a writing standpoint, since he wasn't that intimidating of a villain, and it makes more sense for Brade to be the main antagonist, as she is, in a lot of ways, a similar version of Spensa on a different path. I also really liked that Gran-gran got a larger role in this book. She had been kind of neglected since the first book, and it felt like she had a lot of potential as a character, so I'm glad that she got that (In that sort of heroic, old Jedi master way) 

However, there were also a lot of things I found lacking. While I did find Spensa's emotional turmoil (especially towards the beginning) to be interesting and compellingly written, it did feel forced and in your face, especially with rooms and objects literally warping around her, which was a cool idea, but mostly just felt like the book was trying to be extremely obvious and force the idea that Spensa is having issues. Also, there was the whole thing about Spensa being a monster that was talked about towards the beginning of the book, which was then dropped for the most part. I liked this idea because I felt it fit with Spensa's character and development, and also served to make more parallels between her and Brade. Because of that, I'm rather sad that the idea seemed to become pretty much irrelevent after the beginning of the book. Finally, one of the things I didn't like was Skyward Flight. They didn't feel that important, and their appearances, besides Jorgen's, all felt pretty uninteresting and unimportant, which is a shame because I really like Rig, FM, and Kimmalyn, and it felt as though they were snubbed in this book.

Overall, I think it's a decent book. I still think the first book is the best in the series by quite a bit, but I did think that this book did a decent job of tying up Spensa's story. It suffered from a lot of issues though, especially one that seems to be plaguing Brandon's most recent works, namely ideas and developments that seem to be forgotten about or lead nowhere at all. So, overall, I give it a 6/10. It was enjoyable to read, but it certainly was not one of my favorites, and I wish that it would have returned more to the roots of the series.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Treamayne]

Here goes - more of a "Full reaction to the Series" since the ending of Starsight made me decide I would not read any more Cytoverse until all books were out (cliffhanger endings are one thing - cliffhangar unresolved endings are quite another. . . and if you feel the need to repeat a chapter (cyto 1 was the same scene as the end of Starsight) then you know something went wrong). 

So, now that Defiant is out, I re-read from the beginning - DE, SW, SS, SR, RD, ES, C, D. Since the thread is Defiant focused, I'll be brief:

DE - Still enjoyed this story, but reading it again after having read SW and SS once each, I was better able to track what Jason was doing, with one major exception (more on this later re: Gran Gran). Still a good story, and I like the implications that prior to the Rim developing enough to have large Fragments, the Superiority was using "lesser worlds" as their "exile" location. They were creepy and morally bankrupt long before Winzik came along. 

SW - Still the best of the books, by far. I honestly almost would have preferred this to be a stand-alone than a series. Not much else to say.

SS - Not bad for a sequel, but seeing how we eventually got Alt POV novellas, mixed POV book 4 and interludes - the lack of Skyward Flight POVs seems like a missed opportunity. I feel like there was a desire to remain single POV because of book one, but the story needed to be multiple POV. The fact that the novellas can be chopped up and have their chapters mixed with books 2 and 3 shows that the after Skyward the story was about the Flight, not just Spensa, and really should have been treated as such. 

On 12/20/2023 at 1:55 PM, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

BRADE BEING THE MAIN VILLAIN. AHHHH. I'm not against Brade winding up as the main antagonist at the end, but the way it was handled just... What I wanted was Winzik to be more of a presence in the book. I would've liked it better if there was some sort of actual fight between Winzik and Brade. Then again, there would've needed to be more set up for that ending.

Really? I thought this was not only foreshadowed, but almost too obvious by the end of Starsight (really, Brade using the Rocket launcher was what "confirmed" in my mind that Winzik was a puppet and Brade was manipulating him - but not until the second read-through, I missed it the first time). The repeated references to "Brade being manipulative" in books 3 and 4 just seemed, to me, to make this more obvious and less foreshadowy. It was like being slapped in the face with "Brade's the Villain" over and over again. For example (SS Ch 36):

Spoiler

Brade hadn’t moved. She just stood there, her eyes hidden. Finally, she put her hand up to the side of her helmet, hitting the button that pulled the visor up.

Then she pulled her lips back and showed the front of her teeth—an alien expression—and gestured sharply.

“Human!” she screamed. “I’ve found the human spy!”

The body language and pacing make it clear this is a calculated act. Listen, pause , slowly open visor while deciding if she would better off manipulating rebel humans or her current pawns, malicious smile. . . freak out? (way too over the top)

SR - FM Rocks. This novella changed my entire perception of the character. That said, the new flight memebers (especially T-Stall and Catnip) never feel fleshed out (even by the end of the series) with only Sadie getting some cursory characterization - which goes back to SS should have been multi-POV so they could "introduce" those characters and some DDF changes as interludes in book 2, which would have helped the novellas feel more coherent. 

RD - I feel like the fact that ReDawn is a gas giant should have come up long before that was explained - which would have made the "miasma" and the whole setting understandable from chapter 1 instead of it not becoming clear until humans were "told" half way through the story. While I like Alanik as a character, I felt the mental dissonance (here and in Defiant) of "she impersonated me" but "I asked her to do it" just did not work (or not well). Probably my least favorite of the novellas overall. 

ES - Flashback was great, and Jorgen "losing it" at VAdm Stroff was great. However, the whole "Two other Vice Admirals planetside" bit really threw off the willing suspension of disbelief because 1) two of three ranking members when their Adm was absent would never have left only one behind 2) Even if they had departed because of the broadcast, they would have been recalled as soon as Skyward Flight returned - and would have been in-place long before the "two days later we still had not heard from Cobb) - which made the whole subplot of "coward officer willing to look the other way" feel like dees ex machinae (DEM). That was not nearly as bad as "Cobb promotes Jorgen" which is entirely DEM - since we've already seen Sanderson known how to handle such things (Stormlight Archive Spoilers):

Spoiler

The best reasonable effect would have been similar to Kaladin - Jorgen does get a promotion - but due to years of service it is commanding a Task Force of Cytonics and Slug Technicians outside the normal chain of command. The after-the-fact justifications in Defiant only made this worse, not better, in my opinon. 

Really, the whole novella can be summed up as "characterization was great, plotting was awful." 

Cytonic - And here is where the "Spensa only, with interludes" outline glares the most wrong. I'm working on parsing out the Novella chapters so I can modify my e-books to spread those chapters amongst books two and three (see below) because if I should read the series again - I really think it will work better mixed into the main story than going backward and forward for each start and finish. Notes:

Spoiler

Milestones:

Starsight Ch 41 - Sunreach Ch 1

Cytonic Interlude 1 - Sunreach Ch 11

Cytonic Interlude 2 - Before Evershore Ch 2 - Jorgen's at home and he notes in ES “I went home to see my father a couple of days ago,” he said. “But neither of my parents would listen to me. They think I’ve been spending too much time with Cobb.”

Evershore Ch 6 - Cytonic Ch 17 - Doomslug shows Spensa cleaning ship parts

Cytonic Interlude 3 - After Evershore Epilogue

Which means all three novellas fall between SS ch 41 and Cytonic I 3.

One consideration about reading ES before Cytonic means that the "reveal" that the reality icon was Doomslug is spoiled - but I am not sure that is a bad thing. The impact is more that Spensa cannot identify for herself why a "fake of my Father's pin" Feels so important to her - and I think it might even read better for the reader to know while Spensa dies not. 

Defiant - Not bad, not great.

+s: Taynix, helping the delvers change, Gran gran (everything about her) Jorgen

-s: Taynix, pacing, etc., Alternate POVs all reserved for Part 3 (discussed above - should have become the norm since Spensa left for Starsight in book 2)

I feel like if the "Sanderlanch" had been handled like Oathbringer's (without a chapter break for each viewpoint change) then the book could have been 30ish chapters instead of 59+ and would not have read in such a disjointed fashion (ref Oathbringer Chs 117-120ish). I liked Spensa's early arc, but felt the "reveal" that the "tantrums" were Chet should have come much sooner, since it was so obvious to everybody but Spensa. The "I need to be separate to protect everybody" just kind-of fades after Gran gran makes her take a wingmate (or three) for that mission but doesn't really feel "resolved" until Hesho joins them in cleaning ships - but just seems forgotten in the interim, rather than actually dealt with. However, my biggest issues with Defiant aren't really the story. 

• The tease of "seven more species of Taynix" as the very first image for the book implied we would at least see them on screen (likely on a rescue) even if we don't learn what each does. Instead it's a broken promise teaser that says "oh, we only put this here so you might buy the follow-on series" Even if they didn't find the slugs themselves, they should have mentioned learning there were more varieties "somewhere" from the stolen data. . . 
• Formatting. The E-book formatting had been consistent through all seven previous parts. Images as chapter and part ID, graphics on their own "page." Font and paragraph formatting. All of that changed for this book. While I love the "image description" appendix - I loath that the formattign does not match. I bought them all at the same time, so even if they decided to change formatting later, the previous books shouls have been updated to match (just like buying Elantris eBook now yields the 10th anniversay edition, not the un-fixed original). It's like those malicious publishers that lazily compile an omnibus by slapping the individual books together without unifying the formatting, so as you change from section to section you have to keep increasing or decresing the device font size because the publisher was too lazy to do their job. Not to mention having the images part of the chapter file means not all devices can show the image correctly (which is why I thought all the previous books had them separate - which works - unlike the Secret Projects that were broken the way Defiant is broken)

 

Overall: Series is okay. Better than Alcatraz, not as good as Reckoners, to me. 
I would recommend Cytoverse to specific people that I think might really like the setting and characters, but I don't think I would make it blanket recommendation to just anybody. 

[Requiem1106]

Something I always found weird about this series was how little explanation I was given to how anyone looked, which was fine until we included more alien species. I reread everything before Defiant and still forgot what a tenasi was supposed to be. 

I loved the underdog sports story of Skyward, so I'm very thankful to Janci for continuing that for us in the novellas, and I think because of that we get the cool climactic battle where Skyward flight is respected enough to win without the main character's intervention. I'm very interested to see what she does with Legacy. Despite being Brandon's characters and story I couldn't help thinking of the Skyward flight scenes in Defiant as cameos of Janci's characters. I absolutely love what she did with Jorgen (and the rest of the crew).

All that said, it was a very fun conclusion! Luna, hyperjump fisticuffs, and Gran-Gran's Last Stand were a blast. M-Bot I couldn't get enough of. The taynix and delver developments I felt intrigued for at every step. It's a YA series, I didn't expect to be overwhelmingly surprised, I expected to enjoy the journey, and I did! If I meet a budding sci-fi YA, I'd recommend it to them. 

Oh yeah, biggest surprise of the book: Jorgen and Spensa's date. Sanderson wrote that!?