Nightblood In Cognitive Realm

[+Child of Hodor]

We just got this WoB

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

What does Nightblood look like in the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon (paraphrased)

RAFO. Let's just say this has been a topic of much interest to myself and some others.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

This is a surprising RAFO to me. I thought this was answered when Taravangian wielded Nightblood at the end of RoW. Is Odium’s golden room not a cognitive realm creation?  It’s not Shadesmar, but it’s like a mind palace of sorts like the Visions. Body stays in physical realm but the mind is in the golden room. 

Well if Nightblood has a cognitive realm form other than as a sword I will go with creepy victorian ghost boy. Or the titular Boy from The Boy.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Child of Hodor

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

We just got this WoB

This is a surprising RAFO to me. I thought this was answered when Taravangian wielded Nightblood at the end of RoW. Is Odium’s golden room not a cognitive realm creation?  It’s not Shadesmar, but it’s like a mind palace of sorts like the Visions. Body stays in physical realm but the mind is in the golden room. 

Well if Nightblood has a cognitive realm form other than as a sword I will go with creepy victorian ghost boy. Or the titular Boy from The Boy.

I thought that too. That means visions are Spiritual in nature, Odium's visions are like visions Dalinar experienced and it seems those were confirmed to be coming from SR instead. RoW ch 107:

Quote

Dalinar searched in the darkness, the infinity. He was full of Stormlight in a place where that didn’t matter. In a place where all things Connected.
A place beyond Shadesmar. A place beyond time. A place where …
What is that? Dalinar asked. That warmth.
I feel nothing.
Dalinar drew the warmth close, and understood. This place is where you make the visions happen, isn’t it? Dalinar asked. Time sometimes moved oddly in those.

 

I also thought for some reason that in OB when Azure made a deal with Honorspren, they've said to her that a black smoke passed through their fortress, but I've checked it and I was wrong. Weird.

[Treamayne]

On 11/24/2023 at 2:25 PM, Child of Hodor said:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

What does Nightblood look like in the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon (paraphrased)

RAFO. Let's just say this has been a topic of much interest to myself and some others.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

We just got this WoB

This is a surprising RAFO to me. I thought this was answered when Taravangian wielded Nightblood at the end of RoW. Is Odium’s golden room not a cognitive realm creation?  It’s not Shadesmar, but it’s like a mind palace of sorts like the Visions. Body stays in physical realm but the mind is in the golden room. 

Well, there are two interpretations of the question. For example (Secret History 1-1 Spoilers):

Spoiler

 One of the lights from the mass of fleeing people—it was hard to make out individuals, with everyone alight—scrambled toward him. At first he thought perhaps this person had seen his spirit. But no, they ran to his corpse and knelt.

Now that she was close, he could make out the details of this figure’s features, cut of mist and glowing from deep within.

“Ah, child,” Kelsier said. “I’m sorry.” He reached out and cupped Vin’s face as she wept over him, and found he could feel her. She was solid to his ethereal fingers. She didn’t seem able to feel his touch, but he caught a vision of her from the real world, cheeks stained with tears.

His last words to her had been harsh, hadn’t they? Perhaps it was a good thing that he and Mare had never had children.

There is a distinct difference between a being in Shadesmar and viewing the Cognitive Aspect of a being in the Physical Realm. Vin, in Shadesmar, would look like Vin - but. as shown above, seeing Vin's Cognitive Aspect is not the same as seeing her. So, at the end of RoW we saw Nightblood brought into a demense (for lack of a better term) and we still do not know if those are in the Cognitive, the Spiritual Realm or the edge of both. That doesn't answer what Nightblood's Cognitive Aspect would look like from Shadesmar while Nightblood is still in the Physical realm.

On 11/24/2023 at 4:44 PM, alder24 said:

I also thought for some reason that in OB when Azure made a deal with Honorspren, they've said to her that a black smoke passed through their fortress, but I've checked it and I was wrong. Weird.

Did you mean this? (OB Ch 108)

Spoiler

Shallan nodded, then glanced again at Azure’s sword. “You said … the honorspren have information on your bounty?”

“Yeah. Borea thinks the weapon I’m chasing passed through their fortress a few years ago.”

“Your bounty is a … weapon?”

“And the one who brought it to your land. A Shardblade that bleeds black smoke.” Azure turned toward her. “I don’t mean to be callous, Shallan. I realize you’re all eager to return to your lands. I can even believe that—through some tide of Fortune—Kaladin Stormblessed has foreseen some danger.”

Shallan shivered. Be wary of anyone who claims to be able to see the future.

“But,” Azure continued, “even if his mission is critical, it doesn’t mean mine isn’t as well.”

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

So, considering the line of discussion on this thread part of the quote @Treamayne mentions above

 

Spoiler

"Yeah. Borea thinks the weapon I'm chasing passed through their fortress a few years ago."

So um. Why wouldn't an Honorspren know whether or not a blade like Nightblood passed through their city? High spren are pretty well versed in what a shardblade is and isn't. And, with the shenanigans that Sanderson has alluded to with Nightblood in the CR, why the non-definite from Borea. I would think that Nightblood would be extremely memorable in the CR. If for no other special (not already canon) reason, considering Nightblood won't shut up and can speak into people's minds. Maybe they can't do that to spren, but I seriously doubt it.  

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by JohnnyKaizen

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

So um. Why wouldn't an Honorspren know whether or not a blade like Nightblood passed through their city? High spren are pretty well versed in what a shardblade is and isn't. And, with the shenanigans that Sanderson has alluded to with Nightblood in the CR, why the non-definite from Borea. I would think that Nightblood would be extremely memorable in the CR. If for no other special (not already canon) reason, considering Nightblood won't shut up and can speak into people's minds. Maybe they can't do that to spren, but I seriously doubt it.  

I believe Nightblood passed through Lasting Integrity while being in PR, not CR - it was Nightblood's Cognitive manifestation that passed through the fortress, while Nightblood was traveling in PR and spren just never seen something like that, thus Borea couldn't be sure if that was what Vivenna was after or not. Additionally, Nightblood physically looks nothing like Rosharan Shardblades, it looks like a regular sword as long as you don't remove his sheath. If Nighblood was physically in CR in Lasting Integrity, spren wouldn't even bother to look at him for more than one second, not to mention remember him. Nightblood doesn't talk to everybody around him, he talks mostly to his wielder and people close to him. That's why I believe it was Nightblood's Cognitive manifestation that passed through Lasting Integrity, not his physical form, because that should look weird and confusing to spren.

And why would Borea think it was Nightblood not knowing it? Several reasons. First, she might not be there to witness it, but she only heard the story of it. Secondly Vivenna might not know what Nightblood's Cognitive manifestation looks like, thus she relies on some vague descriptions or she collects some weird events happening in CR that might be Nightblood. Thirdly, Nightblood wasn’t nice enough to introduce himself, thus Borea didn’t know for sure that whatever passed through Lasting Integrity was Nightblood and not something else. For all we know Borea/Honorspren saw an UFO passing through, and after hearing Vivenna describing Nightblood, she only thinks that it was him, because she can’t be certain of it. 

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

15 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I believe Nightblood passed through Lasting Integrity while being in PR, not CR - it was Nightblood's Cognitive manifestation that passed through the fortress, while Nightblood was traveling in PR and spren just never seen something like that, thus Borea couldn't be sure if that was what Vivenna was after or not. Additionally, Nightblood physically looks nothing like Rosharan Shardblades, it looks like a regular sword as long as you don't remove his sheath. If Nighblood was physically in CR in Lasting Integrity, spren wouldn't even bother to look at him for more than one second, not to mention remember him. Nightblood doesn't talk to everybody around him, he talks mostly to his wielder and people close to him. That's why I believe it was Nightblood's Cognitive manifestation that passed through Lasting Integrity, not his physical form, because that should look weird and confusing to spren.

And why would Borea think it was Nightblood not knowing it? Several reasons. First, she might not be there to witness it, but she only heard the story of it. Secondly Vivenna might not know what Nightblood's Cognitive manifestation looks like, thus she relies on some vague descriptions or she collects some weird events happening in CR that might be Nightblood. Thirdly, Nightblood wasn’t nice enough to introduce himself, thus Borea didn’t know for sure that whatever passed through Lasting Integrity was Nightblood and not something else. For all we know Borea/Honorspren saw an UFO passing through, and after hearing Vivenna describing Nightblood, she only thinks that it was him, because she can’t be certain of it. 

OK that tracks logically. Considering what we know ( and don't know but are inferring) about Nightblood, that does make sense and would leave a lot up to conjecture on Borea's part. 

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

And why would Borea think it was Nightblood not knowing it? Several reasons. First, she might not be there to witness it, but she only heard the story of it. Secondly Vivenna might not know what Nightblood's Cognitive manifestation looks like, thus she relies on some vague descriptions or she collects some weird events happening in CR that might be Nightblood. Thirdly, Nightblood wasn’t nice enough to introduce himself, thus Borea didn’t know for sure that whatever passed through Lasting Integrity was Nightblood and not something else. For all we know Borea/Honorspren saw an UFO passing through, and after hearing Vivenna describing Nightblood, she only thinks that it was him, because she can’t be certain of it. 

1 hour ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

OK that tracks logically. Considering what we know ( and don't know but are inferring) about Nightblood, that does make sense and would leave a lot up to conjecture on Borea's part. 

Especially if she only heard about "this strange feeling thing" second, third or fourth hand. It's like the children's Telephone game - a "weird black sword" passing through the city could have been recounted as "dark thought voidbringer" (or something similarly silly) by the time Borea heard about it in Celebrant (assuming she was sailing out of Celbrant at the time and did not witness whatever took place in LI).

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Marabout]

I picture Nightblood’s cognitive form as looking like a black Mistspren but with thousands.of different faces that continuously change corresponding to the thousands of breaths used in its creation. Or maybe BS is being cheeky and NB looks like a very insane version of Vasher.