Mid-Range Game 67: 'Twas the Night Before SA5

[The Unknown Order he/him]

I just want to say, and to confirm those words for anyone doubting, Kas talks everywhere. He talks in docs, PMs, and the thread just from what I've seen, and I'm pretty sure, based off of a lot of comments over time, that he talks in many other places as well.

Suffice it to say, Kas doesn't (well, can't for very long) put in enough effort when E to get those leaps, and they're very within his V!MO.

[Aeoryi she/her]

I just read LG74 and learned who wyrm is

[JNV]

7 minutes ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

"sir, do you even have a license?"

Yeah Ive got my temporary sales tax license and special return from the Utah state tax commission it took forever to get and all that 

4 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Hey @JNV, I'm curious: what is the current state of your reads rn?

Im trying not to write Aeoryi off as village for making me automatically suspect them cause thats going to be a really bad habit if I just start doing that but thats honestly the state of things um Im also trying not to write off Archer for being gambity cause that bad habit already bit me listen its finals week for like two more days and then Im scot free so my brain is not working right now though like when is it ever you know what I mean

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

1 minute ago, JNV said:

Yeah Ive got my temporary sales tax license and special return from the Utah state tax commission it took forever to get and all that 

Im trying not to write Aeoryi off as village for making me automatically suspect them cause thats going to be a really bad habit if I just start doing that but thats honestly the state of things um Im also trying not to write off Archer for being gambity cause that bad habit already bit me listen its finals week for like two more days and then Im scot free so my brain is not working right now though like when is it ever you know what I mean

Im glad for that.

[Aeoryi she/her]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Bald said:

I just want to say, and to confirm those words for anyone doubting, Kas talks everywhere. He talks in docs, PMs, and the thread just from what I've seen, and I'm pretty sure, based off of a lot of comments over time, that he talks in many other places as well.

Suffice it to say, Kas doesn't (well, can't for very long) put in enough effort when E to get those leaps, and they're very within his V!MO.

In contrary, JNV does the opposite- really active (relatively) as an elim, and less invested as a villager.

Oh yeah and Kas nearly never gets mislynched by the village. Fun fact.

[Mat he/him]

Convention Game Rule Change!

After further reflection, I'm going to rule that if you beat your opponent in completing your task and earn a point from it, you don't lose the point if they guess your identity. But if you get guessed before completing your task, you can't earn a point from it. And if your opponent completes their task before you do, you can't earn a point by completing yours, but you can guess them and get a point.

...Pretty straightforward, right?

Thanks to everyone for dealing with this poorly put-together idea.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just to be clear—I'm not saying don't push me to make my reasoning clear. Sometimes I just take it for granted and we get stuff like LG96 where everyone thought I was voting Archer in frustration when I was voting him due to a theory about the distro. If you gotta push me this game then you gotta.

What I am saying is that I don't believe my past game thought process is relevant to my current game alignment. You can believe I'm eliding things or not in my discussion of past thought processes. If you don't want to believe I had that past thought process, then that's a you deal and you can ignore my posts on those rather than insist that's not what happened because if you don't think so, then clearly my posts on that matter then have no utility whatsoever. Do I think denying I have that process on the basis of the fact it wasn't articulated in the thread is real annoying? Yeah no drek because it took actual time and effort.

But that's past game and my only motivation in bringing this up is I am not interested in dealing with a round of "but you never said all that about Tani!"

Edited December 13, 2023 by Kasimir
justification

[Aeoryi she/her]

21 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Just to be clear—I'm not saying don't push me to make my reasoning clear. Sometimes I just take it for granted and we get stuff like LG96 where everyone thought I was voting Archer in frustration when I was voting him due to a theory about the distro. If you gotta push me this game then you gotta.

What I am saying is that I don't believe my past game thought process is relevant to my current game alignment. You can believe I'm eliding things or not in my discussion of past thought processes. If you don't want to believe I had that past thought process, then that's a you deal and you can ignore my posts on those rather than insist that's not what happened because if you don't think so, then clearly my posts on that matter then have no utility whatsoever. Do I think denying I have that process on the basis of the fact it wasn't articulated in the thread is real annoying? Yeah no drek because it took actual time and effort.

But that's past game and my only motivation in bringing this up is I am not interested in dealing with a round of "but you never said all that about Tani!"

I passed it off as "I did fake claim Tineye to Tani it is understandable that I set her up"

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

 

3 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Are you hungry, Devo? Cause I'm hungry

Good for you ig.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Destined said:

After further reflection, I'm going to rule that if you beat your opponent in completing your task and earn a point from it, you don't lose the point if they guess your identity. But if you get guessed before completing your task, you can't earn a point from it. And if your opponent completes their task before you do, you can't earn a point by completing yours, but you can guess them and get a point.

...Pretty straightforward, right?

That trivializes some of the games. For example, two of the fundamental forces are Cohesion and tension. Or is it Tension and cohesion? Definitely Cohesion and tension. Or maybe my opponent was Archer and he's already won, in which case, good job. @Ookla the Paradigm, she/her exclusively, none of this themming. Save that for JNV.

[Aeoryi she/her]

29 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

 

Good for you ig.

That trivializes some of the games. For example, two of the fundamental forces are Cohesion and tension. Or is it Tension and cohesion? Definitely Cohesion and tension. Or maybe my opponent was Archer and he's already won, in which case, good job. @Ookla the Paradigm, she/her exclusively, none of this themming. Save that for JNV.

Tempted to vote Devo now

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I'm still content to leave my vote on Archer; his stirring up noise doesn't say anything about his alignment, and doing a "reaction test" like that is an easy way to get village points.

5 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

My theorized elim reaction was that they wouldn’t 1/ believe my claim AND 2/ advocate for my death. No sense killing off your first-half ally.

Nobody should believe your claim. And on D1 sticking your head out is just asking to get voted on. I think the natural variation in players is going to far outweigh any alignment distinguishers with this ploy.

I saw something about Kas and just want to mention that exeing Kas D1 is never a good idea. If he's village we want the elims to worry about Brandon protecting him, and if he's elim it will become patently clear (perhaps not to me, but definitely to others) well before the game ends. And if it doesn't, then that means Kas has become more comfortable with elimming, which I'll gladly trade for a loss.

[Aeoryi she/her]

>^•^>

 

 

[Ashbringer he/him]

I did the thing again...

I'll see if I can catch up but I'm not sure how much energy I have. Don't think it's 7 pages worth.

[Aeoryi she/her]

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

I did the thing again...

I'll see if I can catch up but I'm not sure how much energy I have. Don't think it's 7 pages worth.

Uh most of it is banter but essentially archer isn't the SK and it was all a reaction test and yeah

The first few pages are all fluff ngl

[Archer he/him]

3 hours ago, JNV said:

 I did comment on it I said it doesnt matter either way cause SK doesnt count against our wincon and honestly I kinda wrote it off cause its you but I also didnt want to say that cause of that last time we misvoted you cause you were trying to be less gambity

I feel like I'm getting a blanket pass for being gambity OR not gambity, but I'll take it. Ideal scenario for me. Feels villagey to give up a mix opportunity based on that. 

53 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

 

Good for you ig.

That trivializes some of the games. For example, two of the fundamental forces are Cohesion and tension. Or is it Tension and cohesion? Definitely Cohesion and tension. Or maybe my opponent was Archer and he's already won, in which case, good job. @Ookla the Paradigm, she/her exclusively, none of this themming. Save that for JNV.

My apologies, I'll keep that in mind going forward!

If your convention game is saying Cohesion and Tension, that's interesting because mine is named something similar. There's a way to potentially break Mat's game by assuming he didn't match e-e pairs in convention game groups, and we could look into that by mass claiming the pairs, but I'm not sure I want to go there since the partner guessing rule was an unvetted addition. Feels wrong to exploit it. 

17 minutes ago, Winnie the Pookla said:

I'm still content to leave my vote on Archer; his stirring up noise doesn't say anything about his alignment, and doing a "reaction test" like that is an easy way to get village points.

Nobody should believe your claim. And on D1 sticking your head out is just asking to get voted on. I think the natural variation in players is going to far outweigh any alignment distinguishers with this ploy.

TKN did! Okay no he was being sarcastic apparently.

Your response claims what you think a villager would do, and you've done that. I feel like you aren't leaving room for the usefulness of even an obvious trap, which is that it makes people get in their own heads. Possibly a blind spot for you because that's what you're doing? 

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

I did the thing again...

I'll see if I can catch up but I'm not sure how much energy I have. Don't think it's 7 pages worth.

People have been keeping their posts short, thankfully 

Aeoryi coming in with the ninja to make me regret saying that :P. Aeoryi, who do you think is the SK? 

[Aeoryi she/her]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I feel like I'm getting a blanket pass for being gambity OR not gambity, but I'll take it. Ideal scenario for me. Feels villagey to give up a mix opportunity based on that. 

My apologies, I'll keep that in mind going forward!

If your convention game is saying Cohesion and Tension, that's interesting because mine is named something similar. There's a way to potentially break Mat's game by assuming he didn't match e-e pairs in convention game groups, and we could look into that by mass claiming the pairs, but I'm not sure I want to go there since the partner guessing rule was an unvetted addition. Feels wrong to exploit it. 

TKN did! Okay no he was being sarcastic apparently.

Your response claims what you think a villager would do, and you've done that. I feel like you aren't leaving room for the usefulness of even an obvious trap, which is that it makes people get in their own heads. Possibly a blind spot for you because that's what you're doing? 

People have been keeping their posts short, thankfully 

Aeoryi coming in with the ninja to make me regret saying that :P. Aeoryi, who do you think is the SK? 

You 

Archer/Devo/TKN(?)/maybe Kas [this one is garunteed wrong]

EDIT?)

Actually, now that I look in my ultra secret elim-only-not-bathroom-room I can't really say anyone isn't the SK. I just think that Devo's been feeling weird and that yeah

[Araris Valerian he/him]

22 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I feel like you aren't leaving room for the usefulness of even an obvious trap, which is that it makes people get in their own heads. Possibly a blind spot for you because that's what you're doing?

I am making a claim about the usefulness of an obvious trap for an elim.

[Aeoryi she/her]

 Araris

I've seen enough rn

Also, Happy Birthday @Ookla the Destined! 

[neil the beguiled]

16 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Tell me about it...I just realised your Raven/Aeo not E/E read was referring to Wiz and Aeo >> (I'd concur with it.)

Yeah agreed. We've established where the SK is wrt Village wincon so IMO needn't do too much work for them right now. Probably worth hanging on to if the situation gets more desperate but that's a later problem.

I mean, if you want to, you want to, right? I feel like my whole point of engaging you and arguing it's within Archer's range is...

IDK how to put it. I guess I'd put it like this: I can see the intuitive pull of the V read and I understand why you're making it. I probably would too but for reasons I'm not mentioning, and the fact that I just got off a LG with Archer pulling a WGG, so am freshly-reminded he has a very high risk appetite and the error-bars for a risk/attitude read tend to be bigger for Archer.

I don't think the game hangs on you reading Archer right C1 and it'd be kinda weird if it did. I guess my tldr; is if you feel strongly enough about it, it's probably worth listening to/holding your view because a bunch of people disagreeing is what makes the Village work. I bring it up because I think it's just worth putting it out there that this in particular is worth revising if you get other evidence going forward in future cycles because big error-bar.

If I talk about it, someone will probably snipe me

Edited to add:

Neil, what's the basis for your Aman read?

xD yeah

ill hold off on my thoughts for a biiiit yeah

i mean. im gonna state that i fully dont know anypony here's meta but in general im decent at reading into those sorts of claims? dgmw ive met my fair share of people who fly with audacity there but meh- i ahve a bit more  though, but lemme get to that later in this message ^^ (

and xD gl then king

 

actually. good point. i was kinda throwing that name out bc i remembered them doing *something* notably when i posted that, but then realized there wasnt much from him. i think i just remembered him being nice whoops

7 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

That confused me for a while too, but I think it's based on them hard-assuming that my convention game wincon is to claim serial killer. I think it's still a stretch to assign a read based on that, but it's also a bad assumption to make and I think villagers are more prone to those. 

Until proven wrong, I'm using this as your village tell

ravens/archer not e/e expz

7 hours ago, Kasimir said:

This is weird to me. I'd expect an Elim to be more confident about making a bad assumption because it's easier to just backmask their way to the right conclusion.

Edited to add:

That is, specifically, I think the degree of confidence in your being a Villager is too damned high, and more suggestive of TMI.

7 hours ago, Kasimir said:

It wasn't, actually, but you're free to think what you want.

-

Right, I don't really believe too much is gained by waiting at this point. 

@neil the beguiled - As promised: my additional thoughts were that I considered it was quite likely a reaction test, but struggled to determine if the POV was a Villager seeking Elims on the basis of assumptions about Elim behaviour, or an Elim seeking to flush out the SK, since Elims really gain from us focusing on the SK as compared to Elim hunting. Also targeting possibilities there since the Elims really don't want to waste their kill on the SK, and it helps them work out who the Lurcher might be protecting.

Some of this was based on my initial assumptions on the SK's wincon and becomes a bit different in the current landscape but also depends on Archer's own assumptions of the SK. I didn't feel the point in highlighting it or being too on the nose about it because Archer's yelled at me enough times about letting him do him without getting in his way, and I've just come off a game where a player kept getting between me and the player I was trying to apply pressure to, so I just could not get a decent reaction/response at all.

Having been annoyed by it, it didn't feel right to do it to Archer.

Do I V!read Archer? Well, it depends on what he does with this. I can see a case for V!Archer, I'm just not willing to commit to it without seeing what he's going to do with the results. Part of why I questioned his Devo read and his asking Devo but not you - it's clear Archer is asking pretty much everyone who had a concrete reaction. (It's true he doesn't ask Araris, either, but Araris is gonna Araris.)

ah yeah that makes a lot of sense. i'd generally feel more swayed to see reaction testing as v indicative rather than anything else, but the elims needing to weed out the sk makes that harder to gauge as well (er, i suppose sk could also want reactions but. what a sk wants reactions for is a lot more nuanced than an e or a t.

my gripe with this, and thus my earlier squinting, is i read your prior comments as a soft defense of archer, and a lack of a read on such a contriversial member read moreso partnered, but the other quoted post makes me think this is less likely. but i didnt want to air such a gripe so early as it was mentioned you're a likely n1 kill... lol.

7 hours ago, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

Yes. I can see how that would be very confusing considering how I believe both. If you are a Serial Killer, yes you are less important to kill than the elims, but we should still exe you sooner rather than later. And if you aren't--which is quite likely--than your motive is...interesting. It definitely changes things to learn that you had claimed SK many times before in games like this one, but I'm still not certain. Devo brings up an interesting point in saying that the convention game could be involved, I'm not sure how I feel about it, though. And it could have been trying to find our reactions, but I never seem to really trust those.

So basically I don't have many opinions thus far.

i dont like the hedge in this fwiw. i can get not trusting a persons reasoning for a claimed reaction test, but you can also reap the rewards of said reaction test. consider a t/sk!archer as opposed to a e!archer world. if you assume archer is uninformed, then you should be looking for the informed in response to his reaction test, or whos trying to push sus onto him. if you think archer is informed, who is defending him? i think theres a lot you can get out of things like this even if you dont know what alignment archer is by the responses to him. 

but also with devo, youre unsure on, but you just kinda parse it off as "interesting" which is baffling to just... comment on and disregard?

 

6 hours ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

It'll be back to normal in like a week

Do we know if survivals are announced?

oh good,. its kinda confusing here ^^

6 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I didn’t get a SK counter-claim, but I think this has run its course. Obviously it was a lie (sorry, TKN. Should have made me hold an iron horseshoe). Reaction recap, loosely ordered from n>v>e!:

-Ashbringer: no comment.

-JNV: no comment.

-Raveness: no comment.

I couldn’t have made my claim more unmissable, but Ash and JNV fit the profile of people who did. Curious why Raveness didn’t comment on it. E!me would feel compelled to respond to the test, even knowing it was a test, so my instinctive read for ignoring it is village.

-Araris: stab votes me for claiming SK.

-Kas: calls it a NAI reaction test

These reactions are within their metas. It was very funny watching Kas try not to ruin the test but then commenting on it anyway. Araris’ is less organic, but it’s NAI for him.

-Neil: village read for “joking”.

The innocent new guy play is to believe the SK claim, not disbelieve it and ascribe a village read for it. Caveated by them being known by fellow players. 

-Ookla the Past Participle: Playing both sides, I’m either neutral or I’m evil.

Technically, this is the most scummy response. But it also reads as genuinely indecisive, and that overrides my suspicion.

-Devo: village read based on assumed fakeclaim because of convention game

They pinged my gut last night. I had to read between the lines to figure out what Devo was thinking. But I’ve decided that that’s a villagey look for them because e!they is intentional enough with their wording to avoid misunderstandings. An unforced error from e!they would be surprising, as would a weird take on a straightforward test.

-Ookla the Bald: believes neutral claim

Really?

-Ookla the Resolute: Doesn’t believe it for a second. You can tell because they ask Raveness what their neutral tell is, Raveness if they’re the SK.

My working theory was they’re the real SK (chaos = neutral). Refusal to engage with and believe my claim followed by obsession with the topic points that way. That theory can hold the vote on me as being neutral pettiness (if you’re going to vote someone, vote the guy claiming your job). Otherwise it’s a weird (opportunistic) turn that I'm inclined to suspect. 

 

My theorized elim reaction was that they wouldn’t 1/ believe my claim AND 2/ advocate for my death. No sense killing off your first-half ally. I don’t think enough people took me seriously for that to come into play. If I were to call people out for being cautious, Kas, Devo, and the no comments tripped that wire.

Ookla the Bald

im only known by/played with stick on this site fwiw; aeoryi i saw inned on a game im helping host but otherwise have no experience with ^^

anyway;

why do you think that an v!player would be less likely to respond? would you not assume an e!player would rather avoid a rt? though ig this gets to wifom territory now. you say that e!you would respond to a test like this, which brings up 2 questions 1. do you think that your playstyle is similar/common to the general playstyle of this site? 2. how would you describe e!you to react to this, assuming someone else posted the exact reaction test there?

for araris/kas: wdym in their metas? like just in general you think their reactions are NAI?

for me: xD, its easy to capitalize on as wolf when someone pulls this stuff in maf gg pubs; i kinda generalized that this website is a bit more methodical in how yall do things here. gth id say ppl who *would* call for your death are more likely to be elimers, but the fact you have a meta of doing this kinda muddies those waters.

for past participle/ravenclaw: can you detail more how their indecisiveness makes your read more neutral here, especially while calling out kas/devo for their caution? i dislike their response the most tbqh

for devo: this i understand most actually- i think as v! youd be more compelled to find an AI reasoning than convention reasoning.

for bald: can you explain more on this, given youve put the least thought here for the bald and still placed your vote there?

aeoryi: im ngl i kinda buy your reasoning wrt a sk!aeoryi, esp with the comments to raveness... otherwise im kinda shrug though, i dont rlly wanna vote aeoryi d1 for kinda nebulous reasons. which actually.

Aeoryi

i feel like i had something more to say on this but i forgor. curious to see ur response tho

6 hours ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Huh? I could have also just asked in my GM PM instead of the thread amd gotten an answer. 

I don't

Like I said it was a kayana world

can u explain what you mean by this?

5 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Welcome to tunneling with Aeoryi! Today's subject of stretch logic and poor reasoning is Archer/Ookla the Paradigm!

I'm inclined to believe archer, but also I feel like e!/n!archer could do something like this. 

Example:

WGG Gambit from last LG (LG98b) - there was literally no reason to do it except to claim self-protect lurcher and damn me with the "One of the Lurchers is Lying Lynch them both" so like ...

And e!archer has claimed fake roles:

Examples:

LG92- claimed "Rules ignorer" which supposedly could be immune to all night actions if they asked about the rules in thread during the day. Actual: "Gambit god" which made them role-block all night actions targeting them.

MR56- Claimed "Medium" which could ask 3 true or false questions to any dead player and had a one-oof revival. Actual: "Incinerator" which could surpress alignment flips for either NKs or Lynches

- -

But what has Archer done this game?

1. Made an (im0) obscure neutral claim that didn't make sense when backwards logicked

2. Expected more people to interact with that claim.

INTERMISSION:

You said you were a cereal killer, not a Serial killer, last I checked, and I noted it, but passed it off as it was probably a joke.

3. But also acknowledged that the claim wasn't very good. So yeah.

Verdict: Yeah he's probably village

Archer

Ravenclawjedi42 

I'm going to go look at them probably eventually expect that at some point

 

@Ookla the Rich I see u viewing the page

I think cash has played a game before? (Ash's honorblade game) I'll go check after this gimme a sec

 

EDIT:

Here's where he claimed I think:

^^^

You expect people to believe this clear-cut claim

i dont rlly think archer's sk claim was obscure at all, id acc claim it overblown tbh. i agree with your conclusions but i dont really understand the reasoning for getting there. 

5 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I'd note here that Ravenclaw's E!meta (cf. LG98a v. LG98b) tends to be pretty placatory/deferring to majority opinion. I think Ravenclaw sticking to a pretty different position here is a good look for them.

Plays on MU and a bunch of other fora. Really wouldn't take FNG as his baseline here.

Disagree with this one, but it's why I voted Devo and referenced to a prong of a theory. Feel Devo is over-credencing and feel that emerges from potential TMI. Part of it I admit is that it feels way more clean than my own thought process: I kept going back and forth trying to work out if you were E or V. The V call here feels like it has less fog-of-war than it should. I agree there's LG84 where I also sussed/tunnelled Devo for it, but there, Devo and I both had clean non-fog-of-war inferences, and that's not my experience here.

I wonder, honestly. I feel the lesson Aman taught was that the correct response is to bury yourself in the crowd or be a late responder - kneejerks are just bad for Elims.

Was TKN not being sarcastic? It read pretty sarcastic to me.

disagree wrt raven atm, i think theyve been plenty placatory here, will get back 2 that later tho

ive not acc played on a bunch of forums ^^ just 2, im new to forum mafia actually xD! but ive played chat mafia for longer and thats where im more experienced. tho what does FNG mean? i assume it stands for forum new guy? 

5 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Devo is pretty crafty when Elim I wouldn't expect them to TMI themselves that easily but I agree that the logic comes from a place where there are not a one digit number of dimensional planes but like 

Devo actually confuses me now that I think about it

EDIT: 

Also, newer, inexperienced elims might go to the doc or immediately respond- I can tell you I would've immediately responded no matter what alignment.

I don't count Neil as a new player (I still say don't c1 nk them) but I like the contributions they've been giving so I'm tentatively reading them as v

idt id mind voting devo this cycle tbh, esp from their prior comments, i think theyre a decent bet for an elim. id like to know what youre tling me off of tbh- ppl generally find my playstyle scummy as town, its odd to be tl so easily here. 

4 hours ago, Kasimir said:

I think the point isn't newer, inexperienced Elims per se - it's Archer treating the compulsion to immediately respond as the likely projected Elim response that doesn't feel quite right to me. But I'm also more or less of the view that outlier analysis is more helpful for identifying Elims in response to a reaction test - cf. TKN in the last AG. The difficulty is identifying the right set of outliers.

FWIW it's why I asked Araris the question I did about Spiked #2 - Tani's overjustification didn't feel right for what was supposed to be a fairly kneejerk thought process and while she was buried within a particular strata of responses, her response was still quite distinctive.

Will I run my own analysis on Archer's reaction test - probably, yeah, but not right now as I need to refresh my mind before coming back to this game. Since there's way more time to EoC than I was expecting, I'm willing to not rush this.

Edited to add: To precisify - when I say it doesn't feel quite right, I'm being literal here. I don't think it's the correct response to project. I don't regard it as being negatively indicative.

yeah mindmeld to the first paragraph here tbh, thats roughly my sentiments wrt archers test conclusions.  i dont rlly get anything else thoug, i assume its some meta of other games? ig i kinda gave my own responses to the rt in this post as well, if youd like to scan through those as well

4 hours ago, JNV said:

Ten dollars each and tips welcome first twenty purchases come with a free quokka sticker from this pack I found in my bag come buy a quokka friend today great prices high value

  Reveal hidden contents

Hey I did comment on it I said it doesnt matter either way cause SK doesnt count against our wincon and honestly I kinda wrote it off cause its you but I also didnt want to say that cause of that last time we misvoted you cause you were trying to be less gambity

ill take one

i like the bringing up an acc response there to the rt thing, esp with the conclusions offered by archer intiailly, dont see an elim-er being willing to do that tbh

24 minutes ago, Winnie the Pookla said:

I'm still content to leave my vote on Archer; his stirring up noise doesn't say anything about his alignment, and doing a "reaction test" like that is an easy way to get village points.

Nobody should believe your claim. And on D1 sticking your head out is just asking to get voted on. I think the natural variation in players is going to far outweigh any alignment distinguishers with this ploy.

I saw something about Kas and just want to mention that exeing Kas D1 is never a good idea. If he's village we want the elims to worry about Brandon protecting him, and if he's elim it will become patently clear (perhaps not to me, but definitely to others) well before the game ends. And if it doesn't, then that means Kas has become more comfortable with elimming, which I'll gladly trade for a loss.

ive thought kas has been overtly towny so far (er except a brief paranoia wrt archer pairing) and ive mindmelded and agreed with a lot of his processes posted itt. why do you think its a good idea to bring up it not beinf a good idea to elim him d1 tho? 

 

-

i think after all that my scumpings are mostly in like:

devo/raven(claw)/winnie

and i have some townleans in:

kas/archer/jnv/aeoryi?

maybe bald as well, i kinda liked the introspectiveness in one of their early posts

with everybody else unsorted? @Kasimir is there anybody you think i should take a look at to sort specifically that i havent?

[Aeoryi she/her]

35 minutes ago, neil the beguiled said:

xD yeah

ill hold off on my thoughts for a biiiit yeah

i mean. im gonna state that i fully dont know anypony here's meta but in general im decent at reading into those sorts of claims? dgmw ive met my fair share of people who fly with audacity there but meh- i ahve a bit more  though, but lemme get to that later in this message ^^ (

and xD gl then king

 

actually. good point. i was kinda throwing that name out bc i remembered them doing *something* notably when i posted that, but then realized there wasnt much from him. i think i just remembered him being nice whoops

 

ravens/archer not e/e expz

ah yeah that makes a lot of sense. i'd generally feel more swayed to see reaction testing as v indicative rather than anything else, but the elims needing to weed out the sk makes that harder to gauge as well (er, i suppose sk could also want reactions but. what a sk wants reactions for is a lot more nuanced than an e or a t.

my gripe with this, and thus my earlier squinting, is i read your prior comments as a soft defense of archer, and a lack of a read on such a contriversial member read moreso partnered, but the other quoted post makes me think this is less likely. but i didnt want to air such a gripe so early as it was mentioned you're a likely n1 kill... lol.

 

i dont like the hedge in this fwiw. i can get not trusting a persons reasoning for a claimed reaction test, but you can also reap the rewards of said reaction test. consider a t/sk!archer as opposed to a e!archer world. if you assume archer is uninformed, then you should be looking for the informed in response to his reaction test, or whos trying to push sus onto him. if you think archer is informed, who is defending him? i think theres a lot you can get out of things like this even if you dont know what alignment archer is by the responses to him. 

but also with devo, youre unsure on, but you just kinda parse it off as "interesting" which is baffling to just... comment on and disregard?

 

oh good,. its kinda confusing here ^^

im only known by/played with stick on this site fwiw; aeoryi i saw inned on a game im helping host but otherwise have no experience with ^^

anyway;

why do you think that an v!player would be less likely to respond? would you not assume an e!player would rather avoid a rt? though ig this gets to wifom territory now. you say that e!you would respond to a test like this, which brings up 2 questions 1. do you think that your playstyle is similar/common to the general playstyle of this site? 2. how would you describe e!you to react to this, assuming someone else posted the exact reaction test there?

for araris/kas: wdym in their metas? like just in general you think their reactions are NAI?

for me: xD, its easy to capitalize on as wolf when someone pulls this stuff in maf gg pubs; i kinda generalized that this website is a bit more methodical in how yall do things here. gth id say ppl who *would* call for your death are more likely to be elimers, but the fact you have a meta of doing this kinda muddies those waters.

for past participle/ravenclaw: can you detail more how their indecisiveness makes your read more neutral here, especially while calling out kas/devo for their caution? i dislike their response the most tbqh

for devo: this i understand most actually- i think as v! youd be more compelled to find an AI reasoning than convention reasoning.

for bald: can you explain more on this, given youve put the least thought here for the bald and still placed your vote there?

aeoryi: im ngl i kinda buy your reasoning wrt a sk!aeoryi, esp with the comments to raveness... otherwise im kinda shrug though, i dont rlly wanna vote aeoryi d1 for kinda nebulous reasons. which actually.

Aeoryi

i feel like i had something more to say on this but i forgor. curious to see ur response tho

 

can u explain what you mean by this?

i dont rlly think archer's sk claim was obscure at all, id acc claim it overblown tbh. i agree with your conclusions but i dont really understand the reasoning for getting there. 

disagree wrt raven atm, i think theyve been plenty placatory here, will get back 2 that later tho

ive not acc played on a bunch of forums ^^ just 2, im new to forum mafia actually xD! but ive played chat mafia for longer and thats where im more experienced. tho what does FNG mean? i assume it stands for forum new guy? 

 

idt id mind voting devo this cycle tbh, esp from their prior comments, i think theyre a decent bet for an elim. id like to know what youre tling me off of tbh- ppl generally find my playstyle scummy as town, its odd to be tl so easily here. 

yeah mindmeld to the first paragraph here tbh, thats roughly my sentiments wrt archers test conclusions.  i dont rlly get anything else thoug, i assume its some meta of other games? ig i kinda gave my own responses to the rt in this post as well, if youd like to scan through those as well

ill take one

i like the bringing up an acc response there to the rt thing, esp with the conclusions offered by archer intiailly, dont see an elim-er being willing to do that tbh

ive thought kas has been overtly towny so far (er except a brief paranoia wrt archer pairing) and ive mindmelded and agreed with a lot of his processes posted itt. why do you think its a good idea to bring up it not beinf a good idea to elim him d1 tho? 

 

-

i think after all that my scumpings are mostly in like:

devo/raven(claw)/winnie

and i have some townleans in:

kas/archer/jnv/aeoryi?

maybe bald as well, i kinda liked the introspectiveness in one of their early posts

with everybody else unsorted? @Kasimir is there anybody you think i should take a look at to sort specifically that i havent?

 

Kayana means "crazy" in another language. It's in reference to weird things that are crazy but possible I think

EDIT:

Also, Kas never gets NK'D C1. He always gets pocketed (and tbh, it isn't too hard to pocket him sorry Kas)

ED2T:

Also I totally am looking forward to an MU game

But why does it have a post cap of 100? (Oh wait I have 53 posts on this thread lol)

ED3T:

I'm trying not to bring up the concept of player metas but basically

Araris: known for once bussing (throwing Elim teammates under the bus to gain village cred) but apparently that doesn't happen anymore

Kasimir: known for being really really active as village but as Elim it is more or less active

JNV: known for being super inactive when village and more active when Elim. But is actually realllllly good at eliming.

Devo: Fairly well rounded as a player but apparently always votes EoD and likes to RP. Avoids killing new or returning players (if necessary)

Ravenclawjedi42 (thepresentparticiple): tends to move with public opinion with both playstyles. @Kasimir could give you a better perspective of their e!meta, but they've played the same number of games as me

Oh yeah and I do crazy chaos stuff sometimes it's more NAI than anything for me since I still do it as Elim but yeah

I'll bring up more as they come up.

ED4T:

@TheOokla929 - hi

(Reads list)

Village:

Kasimir: they took the active path, and as Araris (?) Said, they're active as a villager, and less active as an Elim, and if their e!playstyle changed it's not necessarily a bad thing. Also, if Kas is still alive in any cycle greater than like, 5-6 that's probably an Elim tell. (Kas will probably be C1'D anyways)

Neil: I like their contributions and the insights they've been showing. I cannot say much more. I like it.

 

Mild Village: 

Wizard (ravenness): They've been fairly joketive, and they did say that their Elim tell was going inactive (which btw, @Ookla the Raveness is kinda happening rn) but like I feel like this is standard wiz behavior.

JNV: Meta-cleared... For now. And sells quokas. That's probably the best part.

Archer: fake claiming is normally a village thing to do (granted, he did do it last game as Elim) but he does seem a bit quick to jump to conclusions but what can I really say.

 

Neutral (+)

TKN: they bring up some infrequent somewhat good points but like the archer thingy

Araris: Idk what to say. It's just Araris.

Ashbringer: They do seem legitimately invested in IRL things (finals, I think) so like this is kind of expected from them I don't know what e!Ash is like but I assume it's slightly different 

Neutral (+/-):

Aman: yeah he needs to post more 

Labyrinth (theookla929): 

Coffeecat: @Coffeecat you should probably post more

TheRavenHasLanded (of ravens): They really haven't said much game related but that's pretty normal for them. Technically they've played three games but really hasn't (I blame Sirta).

Cash (the rich): just NAI posts. Returning/newer player, so I don't really think they're *ahem* on the Elim doc

Neutral (-):

Ravenclawjedi42 (thepresentparticiple): The hedging as Neil pointed out, is strange. I'm sort of at a stop with my opinions on them but I will probably look at them later.

Mild Elim: 

Devo: TMI reasons and strange logic.

Elim for sure:

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ookla the Resolute

[JNV]

5 hours ago, Ookla of Ravens said:

Im glad for that.

Look Im not the sort of person to sell things illegally these are all above board entirely legal quokkas

1 hour ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I feel like I'm getting a blanket pass for being gambity OR not gambity, but I'll take it. Ideal scenario for me. Feels villagey to give up a mix opportunity based on that. 

Eventually Ill learn how to actiallly analyze but honestly I run on vibs and biased cases to justify those vibes so like yeah

38 minutes ago, neil the beguiled said:

ill take one

So thatll be ten dollars heres your charm

Spoiler

Heres your sticker

Spoiler

We take cash or card would you like to tip

30 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Kayana means "crazy" in another language. It's in reference to weird things that are crazy but possible I think

EDIT:

Also, Kas never gets NK'D C1. He always gets pocketed (and tbh, it isn't too hard to pocket him sorry Kas)

ED2T:

Also I totally am looking forward to an MU game

But why does it have a post cap of 100? (Oh wait I have 53 posts on this thread lol)

ED3T:

I'm trying not to bring up the concept of player metas but basically

Araris: known for once bussing (throwing Elim teammates under the bus to gain village cred) but apparently that doesn't happen anymore

Kasimir: known for being really really active as village but as Elim it is more or less active

JNV: known for being super inactive when village and more active when Elim. But is actually realllllly good at eliming.

Devo: Fairly well rounded as a player but apparently always votes EoD and likes to RP. Avoids killing new or returning players (if necessary)

Oh yeah and I do crazy chaos stuff sometimes it's more NAI than anything for me since I still do it as Elim but yeah

I'll bring up more as they come up.

I dont know why you feel the need to preface your list of player metas with how youre not trying to bring up player metas like youve been talking about metas for the last few pages you dont need to hide from it

[Aeoryi she/her]

4 minutes ago, JNV said:

Look Im not the sort of person to sell things illegally these are all above board entirely legal quokkas

Eventually Ill learn how to actiallly analyze but honestly I run on vibs and biased cases to justify those vibes so like yeah

So thatll be ten dollars heres your charm

  Reveal hidden contents

Heres your sticker

  Reveal hidden contents

We take cash or card would you like to tip

I dont know why you feel the need to preface your list of player metas with how youre not trying to bring up player metas like youve been talking about metas for the last few pages you dont need to hide from it

What if I told you it was part of my con

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

59 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Devo: TMI reasons and strange logic.

Does 'my convention goal is to post a phrase 3 times, so Archer doing something similar is likely his convention goal' not make sense?

[Aeoryi she/her]

2 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Does 'my convention goal is to post a phrase 3 times, so Archer doing something similar is likely his convention goal' not make sense?

? No it does not ?

EDIT: what even is your con goal like you are trying to hide behind it and I don't think it's going to help you

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ookla the Resolute

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Wizard (ravenness): They've been fairly joketive, and they did say that their Elim tell was going inactive (which btw, @Ookla the Raveness is kinda happening rn) but like I feel like this is standard wiz behavior.

Yeah I have a bit

 Neil

Should get that out of the way as it was just a joke/welcome vote

Hmm honestly half tempted to vote you, with you playing like a Bazelgeuse (chaos play) and all. 

@Coffeecat Coffecat

Appear and join the living. Also your post felt evil to me, can't quite explain why, but perhaps it will come clear with more posts from you hmmm?

Edit: uh apparently code coloring doesn't work...manually coloring now.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ookla the Raveness