Mid-Range Game 67: 'Twas the Night Before SA5

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

That confused me for a while too, but I think it's based on them hard-assuming that my convention game wincon is to claim serial killer. I think it's still a stretch to assign a read based on that, but it's also a bad assumption to make and I think villagers are more prone to those. 

Until proven wrong, I'm using this as your village tell

i have been told.

[Kasimir he/him]

13 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I think it's still a stretch to assign a read based on that, but it's also a bad assumption to make and I think villagers are more prone to those. 

This is weird to me. I'd expect an Elim to be more confident about making a bad assumption because it's easier to just backmask their way to the right conclusion.

Edited to add:

That is, specifically, I think the degree of confidence in your being a Villager is too damned high, and more suggestive of TMI.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Kasimir

[Archer he/him]

Just now, Kasimir said:

This is weird to me. I'd expect an Elim to be more confident about making a bad assumption because it's easier to just backmask their way to the right conclusion.

E!Devo though? I feel like they'd consciously avoid being wrong when evil. So running with limited information is a bold look for them

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

E!Devo though? I feel like they'd consciously avoid being wrong when evil. So running with limited information is a bold look for them

is that typically how e!devo would play? man, this is killing me.

[Kasimir he/him]

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

E!Devo though? I feel like they'd consciously avoid being wrong when evil. So running with limited information is a bold look for them

I feel like she does have a bit of a tendency with results TBH - granted I'm working off MR56 here and that's a little more different because Calamity but I was remembering when we were 'does not compute' with Devo's susses and how she got there.

My MR66 read of her was based on pretty different stuff so I don't think I can comment on this too hard.

[Aeoryi she/her]

9 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I feel like she does have a bit of a tendency with results TBH - granted I'm working off MR56 here and that's a little more different because Calamity but I was remembering when we were 'does not compute' with Devo's susses and how she got there.

My MR66 read of her was based on pretty different stuff so I don't think I can comment on this too hard.

MR66 read was only based on what I did imo

And we nearly had a D2 Elim lynch I'm so glad that didn't happen

Also, here's a link to the Devo SK game:

IDk how did Devo even win this but like still it is possible.

 

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

MR66 read was only based on what I did imo

It wasn't, actually, but you're free to think what you want.

-

Right, I don't really believe too much is gained by waiting at this point. 

@neil the beguiled - As promised: my additional thoughts were that I considered it was quite likely a reaction test, but struggled to determine if the POV was a Villager seeking Elims on the basis of assumptions about Elim behaviour, or an Elim seeking to flush out the SK, since Elims really gain from us focusing on the SK as compared to Elim hunting. Also targeting possibilities there since the Elims really don't want to waste their kill on the SK, and it helps them work out who the Lurcher might be protecting.

Some of this was based on my initial assumptions on the SK's wincon and becomes a bit different in the current landscape but also depends on Archer's own assumptions of the SK. I didn't feel the point in highlighting it or being too on the nose about it because Archer's yelled at me enough times about letting him do him without getting in his way, and I've just come off a game where a player kept getting between me and the player I was trying to apply pressure to, so I just could not get a decent reaction/response at all.

Having been annoyed by it, it didn't feel right to do it to Archer.

Do I V!read Archer? Well, it depends on what he does with this. I can see a case for V!Archer, I'm just not willing to commit to it without seeing what he's going to do with the results. Part of why I questioned his Devo read and his asking Devo but not you - it's clear Archer is asking pretty much everyone who had a concrete reaction. (It's true he doesn't ask Araris, either, but Araris is gonna Araris.)

[Ravenclawjedi42]

11 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

@Ookla thePresentParticiple could you clarify if you think I'm lying or if you're conflating neutral and evil?

Yes. I can see how that would be very confusing considering how I believe both. If you are a Serial Killer, yes you are less important to kill than the elims, but we should still exe you sooner rather than later. And if you aren't--which is quite likely--than your motive is...interesting. It definitely changes things to learn that you had claimed SK many times before in games like this one, but I'm still not certain. Devo brings up an interesting point in saying that the convention game could be involved, I'm not sure how I feel about it, though. And it could have been trying to find our reactions, but I never seem to really trust those.

So basically I don't have many opinions thus far.

[Aeoryi she/her]

Archer

Claim neutral = probably a IKYK a

[Kasimir he/him]

13 minutes ago, Ookla thePresentParticiple said:

If you are a Serial Killer, yes you are less important to kill than the elims, but we should still exe you sooner rather than later.

Why?

---

There was only so long Kasim could perambulate through the crowd of SE players. He'd never had much of a good memory for faces and while he dutifully tucked the dizzing array of names and faces away in his mind, he was pretty sure he'd have it all forgotten by the evening.

So many handles he didn't remotely know. He really didn't belong at all, did he? It wasn't his time anymore. His time and come and gone: no one seemed to know Aonar or Twei (memories of hours sank into Aonar's diagrams in House Morinthe) and getting murdered by Araris in some space game he barely remembered, though quite frankly, he'd probably deserved it after getting drunk and shooting Araris in the face. 

Hael and Doctor wasn't around, and no one knew Jain either. What did you gain from this, Kasim wondered. What was the point of all of this?

He made his way to the edge of the circle. Just to get some space from people.

There was a commotion going on at the end of the hall. Nervous gasps, and chattering. Sobs.

Something told Kasim it was going to be ugly.

He reached the end of the hall, poking his way through the crowd and stared at the dead woman, the note taped to her chest.

Quote

Elandera was killed. She was a Reasonable SEr!

Let the game begin.

Kasim really, really hoped someone was going to call the police.

There was SE. But this was real life. You had to do the legwork: forensics, interview connections, trace Elandera's last moments. Right?

Somehow, though, he had a sinking feeling that some of the SE people weren't going to be reasonable about this.

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

9 hours ago, neil the beguiled said:

theres too many gosh darn ravens xD

It'll be back to normal in like a week

Do we know if survivals are announced?

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Raveness said:

It'll be back to normal in like a week

Do we know if survivals are announced?

My presumption is that it'd be announced, since that's standard practice. @Ookla the Destined?

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

Just now, Kasimir said:

My presumption is that it'd be announced, since that's standard practice. @Ookla the Destined?

Standard yes but there's also the serial killer who would survive so either it gets announced and the player could be the serial killer or a villager...or an Elim cuz they wgg with a pocketed Brandon Sanderson...which is kayana in all worlds.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Raveness said:

Standard yes but there's also the serial killer who would survive so either it gets announced and the player could be the serial killer or a villager...or an Elim cuz they wgg with a pocketed Brandon Sanderson...which is kayana in all worlds.

I do think that's the point of the Lurcher - giving a shield to the SK.

Edited to add:

To be clear, from a game-design perspective. Hence the Lurcher preceding the SK on stretch goals.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Kasimir

[Aeoryi she/her]

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Do we know if survivals are announced?

Kinda sus question ngl

 

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I do think that's the point of the Lurcher - giving a shield to the SK.

Edited to add:

To be clear, from a game-design perspective. Hence the Lurcher preceding the SK on stretch goals.

Yeah that's pretty brilliant!

1 minute ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Kinda sus question ngl

 

Why do you think so?

[Aeoryi she/her]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Yeah that's pretty brilliant!

Why do you think so?

You could've asked that on our doc so that proves youra sk

[Kasimir he/him]

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Standard yes but there's also the serial killer who would survive so either it gets announced and the player could be the serial killer or a villager...or an Elim cuz they wgg with a pocketed Brandon Sanderson...which is kayana in all worlds.

How exactly by the way do you expect an Elim to WGG in a game without PMs?

Edited to add:

Oh ffs I forgot this game is a MR I could've held off until Rollovet god I'm so sorry Archer my brain kept going 'yeah rollover is in a couple hours let's do this' my bad nvm.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Kasimir

[Mat he/him]

9 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

My presumption is that it'd be announced, since that's standard practice. @Ookla the Destined?

Survivals are announced, yes.

Also, Official GM VC*:

• Aeoryi/Resolute (1): neil
• Archer/Paradigm (3): Araris/Pookla, Ravenclaw/Participle, Aeoryi/Resolute
• neil the beguiled (1): The Wandering Wizard/Raveness
• Devotary of Spontaneity (1): Kasimir

*Please note that this VC being official is not a guarantee of accuracy. Kindly correct me if you think I'm wrong :).

...My obsession with formality has created a very long and awkward VC I'm sorry :|.

[Aeoryi she/her]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

How exactly by the way do you expect an Elim to WGG in a game without PMs?

They ask in thread or in their doc

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

They ask in thread or in their doc

This question was meant for Wiz, thank you.

Edited to add:

Gonna be blunt, Aeo, I feel you're laying it thick on the chaosplay right now and it's not helping my read of you. I'd rather not tunnel on you if you're Village this time, so I'd really ask you go chaos someone else and let me just do me because I really do not want to kneejerk vote you.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Kasimir

[Aeoryi she/her]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

This question was meant for Wiz, thank you.

Edited to add:

Gonna be blunt, Aeo, I feel you're laying it thick on the chaosplay right now and it's not helping my read of you. I'd rather not tunnel on you if you're Village this time, so I'd really ask you go chaos someone else and let me just do me because I really do not want to kneejerk vote you.

Wait

@Ookla the Destined Is Brandon Sanderson a garunteed village role

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Resolute said:

Wait

@Ookla the Destined Is Brandon Sanderson a garunteed village role

Yes.

[Aeoryi she/her]

8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

This question was meant for Wiz, thank you.

Edited to add:

Gonna be blunt, Aeo, I feel you're laying it thick on the chaosplay right now and it's not helping my read of you. I'd rather not tunnel on you if you're Village this time, so I'd really ask you go chaos someone else and let me just do me because I really do not want to kneejerk vote you.

Trolling is in the spirit of SE...

But fine

 

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

Trolling is in the spirit of SE...

It may be, but right now it's flipping the 'chaos = Evil' button in my brain and if you're Village, it's a button I'd rather not have flipped for the third time, seeing as it's made me sus you pointlessly in I think three games by now.