Break Tank 4: Last Night, Rain Mingled With Mist

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

Well my gut says to kill Archer again

[Archer he/him]

Quote

"I need to go to the bathroom," said Bladdar as they left, never to be seen in-thread again. 

We have a deadline of C3 to exe the Forsaken, but if we exe two villagers, we lose. That means we should skip one exe to maximize our information collection opportunities. We shouldn't predetermine which exe that'll be, to maintain our leverage. 

I see no point in role claiming until D1, but will encourage information sharing then. 

This vote means nothing, but we might as well make use of our time by starting this dance: Ravens 

Just now, Ookla the Raveness said:

Well my gut says to kill Archer again

You're pro-early bloodshed? 

[Mat he/him]

...I can post, right? I think I can post. Wiz did, so anyway

Some questions: (Edit: @Kasimir)

• Does the list the Darkfriends receive of their teammates include the Madman?
• Does the death caused by the Fool count towards the village death limit?

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Well my gut says to kill Archer again

It's N0, so no voting yet  But I think no exe D1 is the best strategy-- we have two cycles of infogathering before we need to exe the Forsaken D3, so we should exe someone D2 but not D1 unless we have some really spicy info somehow. There are more nuances than that but I think that's the basic best plan. Gather info C1-2, put all the marbles in D3.

I think mass claiming is a thing that should happen eventually but not right now as there's ample potential for Darkfriends to have roles that screw with results and stuff like that.

Ninjad by Archer, I see we have many of the same ideas  lock village tbh

Edited December 18, 2023 by Ookla the Destined

[Kasimir he/him]

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Destined said:

• Does the death caused by the Fool count towards the village death limit?

It's in clarifications but no - that's a Night death, not an exe.

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Destined said:

Does the list the Darkfriends receive of their teammates include the Madman?

No, as the Madman is a Village role.

[Mat he/him]

Cool, so if there's a Fool they can claim D2 and we can exe them get two flips for the price of one? Unless I'm reading that wrong? Realistically the Fool is village but knowing two villagers going into D3 may be huge depending on other factors. This game feels very play-by-ear. Fool, if you exist, definitely don't claim now. Idk if being drunk/poisoned messes with your abilities but I don't want to find out.

And huh that is not the answer I was expecting, the Madman really is just screwed huh :P. Kinda doubt they exist in a game of this size but honestly who knows

Also I won't really be around during the night turns which I guess is the better turn to not really be around for. Timezones, amiright :P.

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

15 minutes ago, Ookla the Destined said:

...I can post, right? I think I can post. Wiz did, so anyway

Some questions: (Edit: @Kasimir)

• Does the list the Darkfriends receive of their teammates include the Madman?
• Does the death caused by the Fool count towards the village death limit?

It's N0, so no voting yet  But I think no exe D1 is the best strategy-- we have two cycles of infogathering before we need to exe the Forsaken D3, so we should exe someone D2 but not D1 unless we have some really spicy info somehow. There are more nuances than that but I think that's the basic best plan. Gather info C1-2, put all the marbles in D3.

I think mass claiming is a thing that should happen eventually but not right now as there's ample potential for Darkfriends to have roles that screw with results and stuff like that.

Ninjad by Archer, I see we have many of the same ideas  lock village tbh

Oh whoops xD

I uh though this was just cycles

Obviously I need to reread the rules xD

Why do you propose no lynch D1?

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Raveness said:

Why do you propose no lynch D1?

This

18 minutes ago, Ookla the Destined said:

But I think no exe D1 is the best strategy-- we have two cycles of infogathering before we need to exe the Forsaken D3, so we should exe someone D2 but not D1 unless we have some really spicy info somehow. There are more nuances than that but I think that's the basic best plan. Gather info C1-2, put all the marbles in D3.

Also this

20 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

We have a deadline of C3 to exe the Forsaken, but if we exe two villagers, we lose. That means we should skip one exe to maximize our information collection opportunities. We shouldn't predetermine which exe that'll be, to maintain our leverage. 

Answers come to those who read  

Basically, we lose if we exe two villagers, so we should only use two exes. Not using one C1 makes the most sense from an info-gathering standpoint.

[Haelbarde he/him]

Sigh. @Kasimir, why did you let me sign up to a game during Ookla season!? 

Agrees that now is probably not the time to share information and I'm almost certainly voting no vote for D1, but I need to read the rules some more, brb.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Haelbarde said:

Sigh. @Kasimir, why did you let me sign up to a game during Ookla season!? 

Agrees that now is probably not the time to share information and I'm almost certainly voting no vote for D1, but I need to read the rules some more, brb.

They're going to switch off tomorrow or day after if it's any consolation, but the game will be over by then I think?

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Haelbarde said:

Sigh. @Kasimir, why did you let me sign up to a game during Ookla season!? 

It ends in two days but the game ends in three, so /shrug

Edit: The ninjas are crazy xD

Kas lock v as well tbh

[Haelbarde he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Destined said:

Kas lock v as well tbh

Usually you have to wait until day 3 and see if he's executed, if I recall correctly.

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, Haelbarde said:

Usually you have to wait until day 3 and see if he's executed, if I recall correctly.

I get the feeling voting Kas D3 is not the path to success  

[Archer he/him]

45 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

While we acknowledge it's difficult to enforce in a BT, and hence not spelled out fully in RAW, the spirit of the role requires the Dragon to claim explicitly in response to the first acquired vote for this to count. We'd like the Dragon to make a good faith effort to claim explicitly within two hours where possible, but won't hold it against players who can't manage, due to the BT nature and timezones. We don't anticipate this being gamebreaking either way.

New strategy just dropped: put one vote on everyone at the start of every Day. That triggers this request, forcing a Dragon claim. I don't think revealing the village dragon has any downsides? If we get two dragon claimants it becomes a 50/50 proposition, which is better than our standard odds of hitting an elim. More likely outcome is they don't claim, taking that mechanism off the board, assuming this request has teeth. 

[Haelbarde he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Destined said:

I get the feeling voting Kas D3 is not the path to success  

9 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

but I need to read the rules some more, brb.

I've concluded that Kas is the Dark One and his victory is inevitable... >>

Or maybe I need to go watch some One Night Werewolf playthroughs.

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Paradigm said:

New strategy just dropped: put one vote on everyone at the start of every Day. That triggers this request, forcing a Dragon claim. I don't think revealing the village dragon has any downsides? If we get two dragon claimants it becomes a 50/50 proposition, which is better than our standard odds of hitting an elim. More likely outcome is they don't claim, taking that mechanism off the board, assuming this request has teeth. 

Or Hael could just claim now

But in all seriousness, yeah, I don't see why that's a bad idea. I feel like nothing will happen because this can't possibly be that easy but it's worth a try.

[Haelbarde he/him]

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

New strategy just dropped: put one vote on everyone at the start of every Day. That triggers this request, forcing a Dragon claim. I don't think revealing the village dragon has any downsides? If we get two dragon claimants it becomes a 50/50 proposition, which is better than our standard odds of hitting an elim. More likely outcome is they don't claim, taking that mechanism off the board, assuming this request has teeth. 

Hmm. I don't care for it because it's also well possible there's only a false dragon in this game, and we don't want to execute them thinking them to be the Dragon Reborn.

[Kasimir he/him]

16 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

Usually you have to wait until day 3 and see if he's executed, if I recall correctly.

I think you mean NKed, and it's gotten more complicated since

I just came off an offsite game where for whatever reason the Elims Just Did Not Want To Kill Me and I was getting seriously confused/trolled/questioning reality at every step.

12 minutes ago, Ookla the Destined said:

I get the feeling voting Kas D3 is not the path to success  

There's a variant of this ruleset where it actually is but IMO it's too bastard - the GM can break the rules, there are no Evil players at all, and the Village wins once the GM is exed. I don't feel it's as fun to test as what Drake and I are testing for here, and also, I think that'd invoke too much LG97 trauma.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Kasimir

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Haelbarde said:

Hmm. I don't care for it because it's also well possible there's only a false dragon in this game, and we don't want to execute them thinking them to be the Dragon Reborn.

Oh duh. I'd say this is less likely than a village Dragon but it is possible I guess.

Just now, Kasimir said:

I just came off an offsite game where for whatever reason the Elims Just Did Not Want To Kill Me and I was getting seriously confused/trolled/questioming reality at every step.

See but this is also true in like every onsite game you play too isn't it  

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

There's a variant of this ruleset where it actually is but IMO it's too bastard - the GM can break the rules, there are no Evil players at all, and the Village wins once the GM is exed. I don't feel it's as fun to test as what Drake and I are testing for here, and also, I think that'd invoke too much LG97 trauma.

Eeeeeyeah not a fan of GM intervention in general I think. Though it would be different to know beforehand.

K that's all from me for the night, I'll be back an hour before rollover :P.

[Archer he/him]

1 minute ago, Haelbarde said:

Hmm. I don't care for it because it's also well possible there's only a false dragon in this game, and we don't want to execute them thinking them to be the Dragon Reborn.

Is it possible there's only one in play? I assumed they came paired, if included. 

I'm also thinking we should cause as much villager death as possible through roles. Fool and Veteran clear options from the board without using the exe. (Veteran should aim for an elim, but if they fail I see it as advantageous too.) Getting over the hurdle of hitting the Forsaken by C3 is our number on priority, and we should go all in to achieve it by reducing our suspect pool. 

[Aeoryi she/her]

36 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

There's a variant of this ruleset where it actually is but IMO it's too bastard - the GM can break the rules, there are no Evil players at all, and the Village wins once the GM is exed. I don't feel it's as fun to test as what Drake and I are testing for here, and also, I think that'd invoke too much LG97 trauma.

That was probably the only time where I regret saying no to being filter killed NFL

aeoryi 

[Kasimir he/him]

Remember to get those actions in, by the way!

[Aeoryi she/her]

Oh wait it Is night

4 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

That was probably the only time where I regret saying no to being filter killed NFL

aeoryi 

:thonk:

[Haelbarde he/him]

6 hours ago, Ookla the Destined said:

Cool, so if there's a Fool they can claim D2 and we can exe them get two flips for the price of one? Unless I'm reading that wrong? Realistically the Fool is village but knowing two villagers going into D3 may be huge depending on other factors. This game feels very play-by-ear. Fool, if you exist, definitely don't claim now. Idk if being drunk/poisoned messes with your abilities but I don't want to find out.

We don't actually have to execute the Fool to gain the benefit of one of their teammates flipping. 

Quote

Once a game, if you are in the top two trains by the end of the Day, a player with the same alignment as you dies to mob justice that Night.

If the leading train were "No Vote" and the runner up was the fool, then I reckon that'd trigger it, getting us a free night kill to probably learn which side both the fool and the random victim are on.

Quote

Veteran: You are a former soldier, returned to Helgen from battles at the Blightborder. Your military skills have not rusted, however. Once a game, publicly select a player during the Night to name as the Forsaken. If you are correct, they die. If you are wrong, you die.

Is there a reason for the Veteran to not do this? It safely lets them flip (although there's chances that information is conveyed wrong per the bubble of evil rules). And obviously there's a 16.67% chance of just immediately ending the game, if there's one present. Though I guess be cautious of evil innkeepers or apothecaries, and don't make such a claim too early. Although, I think it'd be obvious if they were the target of such an ability as:

Quote

Players will not know if they are drunk or poisoned. Their abilities will also not work. If their ability is an information ability, they will be told false information. If their ability has an effect, their ability will simply fail, although they will believe it has succeeded.

Their ability failing should mean that no one dies. Which sorta makes being told it has succeeded clearly wrong

EDIT:

Sorry, that should be 14.29% I think - 8 players, but excluding yourself means its a 1/7 shot at hitting the Forsaken blind, not 1/6. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Haelbarde
Accidentally used spoilers instead of quotes

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

https://wiki.bloodontheclocktower.com/Leviathan

What this game was based on, according to Kas. Might be helpful even if the roles are different here and there's less time.

6 hours ago, Ookla the Destined said:

It's N0, so no voting yet  But I think no exe D1 is the best strategy-- we have two cycles of infogathering before we need to exe the Forsaken D3, so we should exe someone D2 but not D1 unless we have some really spicy info somehow. There are more nuances than that but I think that's the basic best plan. Gather info C1-2, put all the marbles in D3.

I think mass claiming is a thing that should happen eventually but not right now as there's ample potential for Darkfriends to have roles that screw with results and stuff like that.

Going into D2 being unable to exe anyone is bad, but we shouldn't commit to voting no-exe D1 once we've given a Dragon time to claim (worthwhile D1) and then just waste the rest of the day. It's possible we'll have enough time to put pressure on people while making sure we can still get a no-exe if we're not sure. 12 hours goes by pretty quickly though, so still need to be careful.

Getting claims is the best way to narrow down the Forsaken. A bigger problem than apothecary/innkeeper is that many roles are easy for Forsaken to false claim, so we need time for investigation and confirmation. D1 or D2 is probably a good time to claim.

Veteran shot is especially good for resolving key or suspicious claims, though it doesn't guarantee non-evil.

[TheRavenHasLanded he/him]

8 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

We have a deadline of C3 to exe the Forsaken, but if we exe two villagers, we lose. That means we should skip one exe to maximize our information collection opportunities. We shouldn't predetermine which exe that'll be, to maintain our leverage. 

I see no point in role claiming until D1, but will encourage information sharing then. 

This vote means nothing, but we might as well make use of our time by starting this dance: Ravens 

You're pro-early bloodshed? 

what? are you voting me? rude/j. i am an old veteran.

1 hour ago, Haelbarde said:

We don't actually have to execute the Fool to gain the benefit of one of their teammates flipping. 

If the leading train were "No Vote" and the runner up was the fool, then I reckon that'd trigger it, getting us a free night kill to probably learn which side both the fool and the random victim are on.

Is there a reason for the Veteran to not do this? It safely lets them flip (although there's chances that information is conveyed wrong per the bubble of evil rules). And obviously there's a 16.67% chance of just immediately ending the game, if there's one present. Though I guess be cautious of evil innkeepers or apothecaries, and don't make such a claim too early. Although, I think it'd be obvious if they were the target of such an ability as:

Their ability failing should mean that no one dies. Which sorta makes being told it has succeeded clearly wrong

EDIT:

Sorry, that should be 14.29% I think - 8 players, but excluding yourself means its a 1/7 shot at hitting the Forsaken blind, not 1/6. 

im the veteran, but i dont wish to die yet lol.