Dem Bones.

[A Joe in the Bush]

My Friends and I are going to put together a MAG campaign, and my friend decided to be a kandra assassin. A Kandra who has broken the First contract. 

 

So he decided to strengthen his bones. He wanted to make them unbreakable, and unpushable, so he made them out of obsidian, then he had a better Idea, and just used weapons. His Ribs are daggers, hiss leg is a Mace. He has full on swords in his arms. Then he started throwing in Hemalurgic Spikes.

 

I'm just wondering, do the Kandra have enough Muscle control to pull something like this off? Could they weapons as bones?

[Edgedancer he/him]

First of, I don´t know the MAG rules, so I´m just going of the books here.

 

The bones are, from my understanding used to give the mussle mass, that a Kandra usually is, a frame to stabalize their body. From the true bodies and TenSoon´s adventures we know that they don´t have to use actual human bones. However, whatever they use still shapes them, so I would think that they have to keep a tight grip on their "bones." 

So my verdict would be that while a Kandra could store few weapons in their body maybe a dagger or two (see OreSeur and the vials in the wolfhound), using them as bones would cause them to either cut themselves with bladed weapons or have very mace shaped legs.

 

Same with spikes only that getting spiked by them in the wrong way would be very dangerous.

[Voidus]

Depends on which Generation the Kandra's from, how experienced they are an so on, TenSoon would certainly be able to manage it, although from a physiological point of view when the muscles constrict around it they'd probably tear quite a bit unless they also had a Blessing of Potency.

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

It's your game and thus your call, but I wouldn't let this work. Both for the reasons of damaging himself with internal blades and spikes and also for the simple fact that they aren't connected. They go on about how important it is to have a complete skeleton. Even True Bodies are specifically shaped to be bodies, and thus are connected at joints properly. Doing something like this just wouldn't work in my opinion.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Okay, We as a group anaylsed and Discussed, and came up with a different soloution. Kandra's true bodies don't have to be completely human, If we thined a couple of the bones, and misplaced a few Organs inside the Chest, could we store like, daggers and Vials in there?

[Voidus]

Okay, We as a group anaylsed and Discussed, and came up with a different soloution. Kandra's true bodies don't have to be completely human, If we thined a couple of the bones, and misplaced a few Organs inside the Chest, could we store like, daggers and Vials in there?

This would definitely be possible, hiding things inside their bodies shouldn't prove to difficult for an experienced Kandra.

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

Okay, We as a group anaylsed and Discussed, and came up with a different soloution. Kandra's true bodies don't have to be completely human, If we thined a couple of the bones, and misplaced a few Organs inside the Chest, could we store like, daggers and Vials in there?

Hiding things inside the body seems far more viable than making the body out of such things.

[thecatinthehat]

So he decided to strengthen his bones. He wanted to make them unbreakable, and unpushable, so he made them out of obsidian, then he had a better Idea, and just used weapons. His Ribs are daggers, hiss leg is a Mace. He has full on swords in his arms. Then he started throwing in Hemalurgic Spikes.

You mean, creating a skeleton from Hemalurgically-charged metal pieces?

[A Joe in the Bush]

Yes

[Oudeis he/him]

There's no reason the individual pieces of a True Body couldn't be crafted to double as a weapon... but they would likely not be as effective as real weapons, and possibly not even as effective as bones. Also, remember that the bones aren't just a general framework; they specifically shape the resulting body. Like someone said before, mace-shaped legs, also how True Bodies often make you seem inhuman. Also, all that metal would be heavy to carry around.

 

I'm not sure anyone would ever need as many weapons as there are bones in a human body... especially if using the last ones means you were now a glob of poorly-defined flesh. Perhaps just a few weapons? A couple of ribs could be custom-made, shaped blades (in sheaths, so as not to cut yourself). Hrm... it's hard to imagine which bones in your body you can do without. You've got two bones in your forearm, but if you take out one and try to use that hand in combat, you'd prolly break your arm very easily. Ribs might be your best bet.

 

Also, remember, kandra brains work differently than humans ones. There's all that useless grey matter a kandra doesn't really need in his human skull. Store stuff there, instead.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Good idea. They could also possibly use chunks in the Body. Do Kandra need hearts of somesort? or just their Spikes?

[Voidus]

Good idea. They could also possibly use chunks in the Body. Do Kandra need hearts of somesort? or just their Spikes?

Just the spikes I think, otherwise without bones I think their mass would crush their heart.

[Oudeis he/him]

Hrm... a Kandra mimics a human, yes? Perhaps this includes systems in the body, explaining why they bleed like anyone else? So, even though a natural kandra exists without needing a heart, perhaps while in human form, they DO need that organ, because all of their other human organs need oxygen and everything else pumping blood requires, and they no longer have whatever structure Kandra use?

[Kadrok she/her]

Okay, We as a group anaylsed and Discussed, and came up with a different soloution. Kandra's true bodies don't have to be completely human, If we thined a couple of the bones, and misplaced a few Organs inside the Chest, could we store like, daggers and Vials in there?

Have you read the 'Body Pocket' stunt yet in the Kandra section of the MAG manual?

[A Joe in the Bush]

Yes, but We want an Uber Kandra, Like the Kandra's currently running around Sanderson Elimination.

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

The way I understood it was that Kandra do not need any internal organs to function. However, they sometimes create them in order to look more realistic in their mimicry.

[Oudeis he/him]

The way I understood it was that Kandra do not need any internal organs to function. However, they sometimes create them in order to look more realistic in their mimicry.

 

Based on anything, or just gut? ((...ironically.))

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

Based on anything, or just gut? ((...ironically.))

It is a pretty big leap, but it is the head canon that made the most sense to me based on a couple of factors. 

 

1) Sometimes TenSoon bleeds, sometimes he doesn't. Blood requires an active circulatory system. This seems to me to be one of the harder things to create in a new body and the kind of thing that wouldn't be done unless necessary. 

 

2) When in translucent true bodies, Brandon gives a pretty detailed description of them and makes no mention of organs or other internal body systems, only translucent muscles showing the artistry of the True Body underneath. If there were an active circulatory system and other organs in the way, this would be obscuring. By that logic, if they don't have these internal systems in place in their True Bodies, they don't really need them to survive. However, by the above point, they can have such systems sometimes.

 

3) Kandra in the prison pits are fed. This means they do need to eat. Both in the prison pits and when digesting a body however, Kandra seem to eat with their whole body, more absorbing the flesh than truly eating it. Yet both OreSeur as Renoux and later TenSoon as the dog both ate normally (the wolfhound TenSoon displaying his fondness for aged meat). The digestive system is a rather complex one involving many separate organs with different functions. I put this one last because it's not conclusive on its own (the food could simply be absorbed as if absorbing a body once in the mouth), but I think that taken with the above two points it lends weight to my conclusion.

 

Based on these three points, the logical conclusion to me seems to be that they can have internal systems but do not require them.

[Oudeis he/him]

1. When doesn't he bleed?

 

2. I disagree with your initial premise. When TenSoon is about to be killed early in Hero of Ages, he's given a skull. It's said that he has some dissolved flesh already stored in a pouch-like organ, so apparently they do typically have organs. Since their muscles/skin are translucent, and since the muscles are what get turned into organs, I think it's reasonable to assume that the organs they make are exactly as translucent as the muscles. They would not obscure the True Bodies. Young kandra are discussed as secreting digestive juices; where do these juices come from, if not an organ?

 

3. "Eating with the whole body" is a process of digestion know as phagocytosis, and it absolutely requires organs in the species that do it.

 

My idea of how Kandra work is very different from yours. It sounds like in your model, you believe that a kandra is like an imitation house, with walls and a roof that can be seen from the outside, but totally hollow within. I do not believe this is possible, any more than you could actually build such a house. Not only would this house be obviously seen as a fake with an even cursory inspection, I don't think it would even be structurally sound without a single load-bearing wall. I concede that I have no more proof for my model than you have for yours, I just think that mine makes more sense.

 

Finally, skin is an organ. Eyes are organs. Just having eyes on the front of a face isn't enough to let a body see. It needs to be hooked up to a visual cortex that can process the information. Human bodies are not, as a whole, modular. Getting one part to work typically requires that a bunch of other parts also work, and the result wouldn't look right if the underlying structures weren't there. Skin is the color it is because it has a constant flow of blood. Blushing is capable because of blood. It takes a lot of organs to do all the things that humans do, without which there would not be much of a way for a kandra to remain hidden.

 

Just my two cents.

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

I think there's a misunderstanding. I'm not saying they have no organs. I'm saying the organs they actually use are completely different from ours (such as those necessary to secrete their digestive juices) and that they do not NEED to make the organs necessary for human viability when imitating a human form. Of course they have their own organs necessary to their structure. I'm just noting that the "heart" they construct when taking human form is not actually necessarily doing anything and they may not even really need to make one.

[Oudeis he/him]

I'm just noting that the "heart" they construct when taking human form is not actually necessarily doing anything and they may not even really need to make one.

 

Okay... I think my other points still stand, however. A human heart is necessary for human muscles, and even just the general human shape. While in human form, TenSoon bleeds red blood. We know they have eyes. Eyes don't work without tear ducts, tear ducts don't work without flowing blood...