Radiant Shardplate

[Lord Spirit he/him]

Now that we have a few examples of how Radiant shardplate works, I have a few questions. I can’t find anything on the shard about this post-RoW, so I’m making a discussion for it. 

can it be broken with enough damage to it like normal shardplate, and if so, what happens to the spren of that piece?

 Does radiant shardplate have weight, or is it super light?

 Does it run in stormlight, and if so, what happens when runs out?

 Can all orders put their plate on others, or is that just a Windrunner protection thing?

Also, I think Shallan and Szeth have sworn the fourth ideal without manifesting shardplate???

 Can Dalinar get shardplate (gloryspren)?

[alder24]

We still don't know answers to most of those questions. 

 

53 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

can it be broken with enough damage to it like normal shardplate, and if so, what happens to the spren of that piece?

We suspect it can be done. As long as the plate has access to Stormlight it will heal itself. A segment which was destroyed can probably be summoned again if there is Stormlight to heal the damage. The Spren is fine, it should probably be near the Radiant somewhere, it can't be killed by this. RoW ch 64:

Quote

But as she came out of her roll, that storming Fused lunged in, slamming two axe-hands at her head, cracking the Plate. The helm howled in pain and annoyance, then lapped up her Stormlight to repair itself.

 

55 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

 Does radiant shardplate have weight, or is it super light?

It should. It basically is the same as with a dead plate. It weighs the same but because it makes you stronger you don't feel it. 

56 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

Does it run in stormlight, and if so, what happens when runs out?

It uses Stormlight to heal the damage done to it. No Stormlight means the damage will stay. But the plate doesn't need Stormlight to function. In RoW ch 64 Jasnah ran out of Stormlight and her plate was fine - it's made out of living spren, responding to her wishes. 

57 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

 Can all orders put their plate on others, or is that just a Windrunner protection thing?

We don't know. But Radiants did lend their armor to lower rank knights:

Spoiler

Kevin Andres

In the vision Dalinar had in Way of Kings where he was flying with another Radiant, he asks how to summon his armor, and the Radiant he's with acts confused and tells him to talk to the quartermaster, or something along those lines. Did Radiants lend out their armor to lower rank Radiants?

Brandon Sanderson

This did happen in the past.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

57 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

Also, I think Shallan and Szeth have sworn the fourth ideal without manifesting shardplate???

Well, I think Shallan swore the 4th Ideal with the Testament, but she broke her bond with her thus it no longer works. With Pattern we don't know if "I killed my spren" counts as a Truth.

Spoiler

enceladus_47

Does Shallan's "I killed my spren" count as a truth?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm gonna leave up to theorizing, figuring out the timeline that's going on with Shallan. What we can say is that Shallan is reconstructing, in many cases, oaths she has said before. And it is working slightly differently than someone who is saying new oaths. And indeed, saying she killed her spren is one of those steps. I'll leave it to you to try and parse through that. It's actually pretty complicated. We have a nice big page explaining all of this stuff internally, to make sure that we're keeping it all straight. Because she has violated oaths and reconstructed them, is basically what's happening. And she is regressing, and she's doing a... 1.1 steps forward, 1 step back, sort of thing, kind of frequently.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

Szeth didn't say the 4th Ideal. He knows what it is but his spren hasn't accepted it yet.  RoW I-7:

Quote

He knelt before the highspren.
“You do well, my acolyte,” the spren said, its tone formal. “You are vigilant and dedicated.”
“I am,” Szeth said.
“We need to discuss your crusade. You are a year into your current oath, and I am pleased and impressed with your dedication. You are among the most vigilant and worthy of men. I would have you earn your Plate. You still wish to cleanse your homeland?”
Szeth nodded. Behind, Dalinar laughed. He didn’t seem to have noticed Szeth’s momentary departure.
“Tell me more of this proposed crusade,” the highspren said. It had not blessed Szeth with its name, though Szeth was its bonded Radiant.
“Long ago, my people rejected my warnings,” Szeth said. “They did not believe me when I said the enemy would soon return. They cast me out, deemed me Truthless.”
“I find inconsistencies to the stories you tell of those days, Szeth,” the highspren said. “I fear that your memory, like those of many mortals, is incomplete or corrupted by the passage of time. I will accompany you on your crusade to judge the truth.”
“Thank you,” Szeth said softly.
“You may need to fight and destroy those who have broken their own laws. Can you do this?”
“I … would need to ask Dalinar. He is my Ideal.”
“If you progress as a Skybreaker,” the highspren said, “you will need to become the law. To reach your ultimate potential, you must know the truth yourself, rather than relying on the crutch presented by the Third Ideal. Be aware of this.”
“I will.”
“Continue your duty for now. But remember, the time will soon come when you must abandon it for something greater.”

 

1 hour ago, Lord Spirit said:

 Can Dalinar get shardplate (gloryspren)?

We don't know. But this is a popular theory and most likely Bondsmiths have the Gloryspren Shardplates.

Spoiler

LameLamas

Will Dalinar get Shardplate once he swears his Fourth Ideal? Or Bondsmiths don’t have Plates?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 15, 2018)

[Fyodor32768]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

 

Well, I think Shallan swore the 4th Ideal with the Testament, but she broke her bond with her thus it no longer works. With Pattern we don't know if "I killed my spren" counts as a Truth.

For what it's worth I think that Shallan's progression is supposed to be roughly following Kaladin's, with her manifesting her second ideal/first truth (killed father) at the end of book one, third/ideal second truth at the end of book 2 (killed mother) and fourth ideal/third Truth at the end of book 3 (deadeyed Testament). She doesn't seem to really be gaining shards in the same way, possibly because of her past progression. She can use Pattern as a blade before her second truth.*

* I know that there is some speculation that she is using Testament in WOR/WOK but during the transfer portal scene she calls for Pattern and he shows up immediately.

Edited January 5 by Fyodor32768

[Master Silver]

Firstly, I love the topic. I will work my way up, but others have done a great job of answering these questions. The Storm Father says he will not come at Dalinar's call or be a blade to him or be bound in such a way that he could be killed. I think these initial statements might have been true when said but are no longer true. Now that Dalinar is of the third ideal the Storm Father is far more connected to him. We see from Radiants of the fourth ideal and how scare/concerned the Fused were about them, that the Nahel bond becomes so strong that even inversing the Towers protections doesn't work on Kaladin. I think if glory spren chose to become plate for Dalinar that is their choice. Heck, I am amazed that Honor spren haven't tried to bond him too (all I'm saying is Dalinar is super honorable). I always thought it funny that Syl was driving off the glory spren around Kaladin. 

 

In terms of Shallan, I think she will manifest plate once Radiant leaves. I think she is on oath 3.5 right now. Her next truth will revie Testament (mostly) and grant plate. 

For the stormlight, it is odd that living plate uses it, because spren blades don't use stormlight. Maybe it is because the plate is not as connected to the physical realm as the Radiant spren, plus the augment the plate enhancing strength and speed via stormlight. It is possible the fifth ideal helps rectify plate's weaknesses. Finally, Radiant plate can just be dismissed. So it doesn't have the same issues of dead plate when all the stormlight runs out. Cheers

[alder24]

9 minutes ago, Fyodor32768 said:

She doesn't seem to really be gaining shards in the same way, possibly because of her past progression. She can use Pattern as a blade before her second truth.*

* I know that there is some speculation that she is using Testament in WOR/WOK but during the transfer portal scene she calls for Pattern and he shows up immediately.

Shallan isn't a reliable narrator. I believe that every time she summoned her Shardblade in WoK/WoR, it was Testament who responded. This includes the Oathgate scene too. Just because she called for Pattern doesn't mean it was Patternblade.

Spoiler

Preservation1

Did Shallan manifest her Shardplate in the final battle of Book Three?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. Shallan has to be big RAFO. You'll understand why when you read this book [Rhythm of War]. Shallan is an untrustworthy narrator.

Travis Gafford Interview (Nov. 12, 2020)

 

[Fyodor32768]

On 1/5/2024 at 2:51 PM, alder24 said:

Shallan isn't a reliable narrator. I believe that every time she summoned her Shardblade in WoK/WoR, it was Testament who responded. This includes the Oathgate scene too. Just because she called for Pattern doesn't mean it was Patternblade.

  Reveal hidden contents

Preservation1

Did Shallan manifest her Shardplate in the final battle of Book Three?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. Shallan has to be big RAFO. You'll understand why when you read this book [Rhythm of War]. Shallan is an untrustworthy narrator.

Travis Gafford Interview (Nov. 12, 2020)

 

She wouldn't be able to open the gate with Testament-dead blades don't work. She needed a living blade.

[Treamayne]

30 minutes ago, Fyodor32768 said:

She wouldn't be able to open the gate with Testament-dead blades don't work. She needed a living blade.

TestamentBlade isn't a normal dead Shardblade, we see her glowing with the Lightweaver colors when Shallan loans the blade to Kaladin in the Chasm.

WoR Ch 72:

Spoiler

Kaladin stared at the glistening length of metal, which dripped with condensation from its summoning. It glowed softly the color of garnet along several faint lines down its length.

Shallan had a Shardblade.

He twisted his head toward her, and in so doing, his cheek brushed the flat of the blade. No screams. He froze, then cautiously raised a finger and touched the cold metal.

<Snip>

The chasmfiend trumped and—

“Hey! Hey!”

Kaladin twisted about. Shallan? What was that fool woman doing, standing in the chasm, waving her hands like a maniac? How had she even gotten past him?

She yelled again, getting the chasmfiend’s attention. Her voice echoed oddly.

<Snip>

Shallan dropped her paper—it bore a drawing of her and another of Kaladin—and scrambled across the rocks, dismissing the blackness around her. She’d needed to be close to the fighting for the illusions to work. Better if she’d been able to send them on Pattern, but that was problematic because—

She stopped in front of the still-twitching beast

So, Shallan is in an illusion of darkness next to the boulder, hiding from the Chasmfiend. An illusion of Shallan is on the opposite side of the chasm, without passing Kaladin, and the only way Shallan knows how to make her Illusions move is attached to Pattern. Kaladin still has the Shardblade.

The only way we can have a moving Illusion and a Shardblade is if Pattern is controlling the Shallan illusion and the Blade is Testament. Also note that Shallan's mind enters a fugue state (just like her flashbacks) when she contemplates how "Pattern" was in two places at once

And since that Blade is glowing, there may be broken Oaths, but it's not the same as a fully dead Shardblade either. 

Edited January 6 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Fyodor32768]

Where does she wonder about Pattern being in two places at once? At the time she didn't know that Pattern was her shardblade so she wouldn't have thought about it.

[Treamayne]

38 minutes ago, Fyodor32768 said:

Where does she wonder about Pattern being in two places at once? At the time she didn't know that Pattern was her shardblade so she wouldn't have thought about it.

It was in the quoted section. . .

Spoiler

Better if she’d been able to send them on Pattern, but that was problematic because—

She did attach the illusions to Pattern, she's trying to rewrite the memory here and trying to reconcile the disparity of her in one place, the illusions in a second place and the shardblade in a third place (what really happens and is seen on-screen). 

It's one of the most blatent unreliable narrator scenes in the first two books. 

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Fyodor32768 said:

She wouldn't be able to open the gate with Testament-dead blades don't work. She needed a living blade.

Testament is the only instance of a dead Shardblade that's still in the hands of their original Radiant. To revive a dead Shardblade, their original Radiant needs to reswear their Oaths, and Shallan is doing that. She said the 1st Oath already, "I'm terrified" was probably her 2nd or maybe even 3rd Oath, and she most likely reached the 4th Ideal with Testament before breaking her bond (the plate that showed up on one of her illusions during the climax of OB). She's close, she's on her way to restore Testament. And that's what makes Testament unique because it's more alive than any other dead Shardblade, and that's why it most likely can open the Oathgate. She was using Surgebinding powers before she bonded Pattern and if she was able to do that, then Testament can behave differently than a normal dead Shardblade - Maya is the proof of this too and she isn't even bonded with her original knight.

Spoiler

Questioner

The dead Shardblades, could you possibly get Stormlight into them to reawaken them?

Brandon Sanderson

Dead Shardblade, could you pump enough Stormlight into them? That alone would not be enough.

Questioner

So you would have to find someone to re-swear with oaths?

Brandon Sanderson

There is something broken on the Spiritual Realm because of the broken oath and simple Stormlight will not fix that.

Questioner

So say--

Brandon Sanderson

If the person were still alive and could re-swear the oath then yes.

Questioner

But someone like [...] could go [...] the Spiritual Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not outside of reason but it would be very, very, very difficult.

Firefight release party (Jan. 5, 2015)

 

Edited January 7 by alder24

[Fyodor32768]

18 hours ago, Treamayne said:

It was in the quoted section. . .

  Reveal hidden contents

Better if she’d been able to send them on Pattern, but that was problematic because—

She did attach the illusions to Pattern, she's trying to rewrite the memory here and trying to reconcile the disparity of her in one place, the illusions in a second place and the shardblade in a third place (what really happens and is seen on-screen). 

It's one of the most blatent unreliable narrator scenes in the first two books. 

But she didn't know that Pattern was a shardblade at the time, there would be no need for a fugue state or for her thoughts to trail off. The reason she trails off is that she can't acknowledge that *Pattern* was her shardblade. She had to get close because she couldn't attach to Pattern. When she thinks about *why* she couldn't attach to Pattern, she trails off because she refuses to consciously accept that Pattern is her shardblade until the end of the book (it would also obviously spoil the revelation of the series's most triumphant scene of the readers knew this in advance).

To circle back to the original point, regardless of which blade she uses to open the gate I think that it's generally the case that what we're seeing with Shallan is not progressing the same way as with a normal radiant so we can't draw the same conclusions about her progression from her shards and abilities.

Generally many of the other radiant orders have not shown the same kinds of effects and specific progressions as the windrunners (big triumphant boom, blade at third oath,  etc). Nothing visible to the reader really happens when Lift says her two oaths. Lift makes a shardweapon in the chapter before her third oath. Dalinar uses the Stormfather to operate the gate before his third oath.  

Edited January 7 by Fyodor32768

[Pineap-spider Pineapple/Spider]

On 1/5/2024 at 12:51 PM, Master Silver said:

For the stormlight, it is odd that living plate uses it, because spren blades don't use stormlight. Maybe it is because the plate is not as connected to the physical realm as the Radiant spren, plus the augment the plate enhancing strength and speed via stormlight. It is possible the fifth ideal helps rectify plate's weaknesses. Finally, Radiant plate can just be dismissed. So it doesn't have the same issues of dead plate when all the stormlight runs out. Cheers

Excuse me if I misunderstood your statement, but living plate using investiture to heal itself makes sense. blades by nature don't break, and don't take investiture to summon (like living plate).but living plate and dead plate can shatter. while a dead plate can't heal, a living plate is bound to a radiant with access to stormlight. 

[Master Silver]

I guess my point is that a spren is a spren. So is an honor spren more highly invested than a wind spren? That would mean that when they manifest as metal, honor spren are made of a stronger metal. Or is it that it takes more spren to make shard plate, so the damage is just breaking the spren apart from each other and that is what stormlight heals. But if it takes 0 stormlight to summon the living plate initially, why couldn't you simply dismiss and re-summon it. Finally, dead plate is healed by using stormlight.