Cohesion and elasticity

[Kaponkie]

Could Cohesion be used to alter the axial connections in a material to make it behave similarly to something like rubber? Basically could a Willshaper or Stoneward recreate the ability of Spice Girls from JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure. Maybe only a Stoneward could achieve this using a combination of Cohesion and Tension to more finely manipulate the axial bonds?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

As far as we know that is what you use Tension for.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

On 1/7/2024 at 1:05 PM, Kaponkie said:

Could Cohesion be used to alter the axial connections in a material to make it behave similarly to something like rubber? Basically could a Willshaper or Stoneward recreate the ability of Spice Girls from JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure. Maybe only a Stoneward could achieve this using a combination of Cohesion and Tension to more finely manipulate the axial bonds?

I honestly don't know the answer to this but the idea of making Mr. FANTASTIC or Elastigirl makes me like Stonewards even more. 

I always like the earthbender immovable object picture in my mind but if this is possible it just became even better in my opinion. 

[alder24]

On 1/7/2024 at 9:05 PM, Kaponkie said:

Could Cohesion be used to alter the axial connections in a material to make it behave similarly to something like rubber? Basically could a Willshaper or Stoneward recreate the ability of Spice Girls from JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure. Maybe only a Stoneward could achieve this using a combination of Cohesion and Tension to more finely manipulate the axial bonds?

25 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I honestly don't know the answer to this but the idea of making Mr. FANTASTIC or Elastigirl makes me like Stonewards even more. 

Cohesion is "molding stone (or other materials) as if it were clay." You can alter the shape of a solid object with that but you can't affect flesh.

Tension is making flexible things stiff and vice versa. It's likely it also can't affect flesh, for the same reasons as with Cohesion, explained in the WoB below.

If you want to get something like rubber, Tension is the way.

Spoiler

Questioner

So far there hasn't been a lot of the Stonewards in the books. Are they going to come forward in the next few?

Brandon Sanderson

...Yes. One of the reasons I built the structure of The Stormlight Archive the way that I did is because I knew it would be easy to overwhelm with the number of magical abilities, and to let myself get distracted by some of them and not do them justice. So I've been very careful, perhaps more careful than I need to be, and when I show like a Fused using a power, I focus more on the ones you know about and things like this, intentionally to keep the reader's attention on what they know as I expand. 

Questioner

Can they shape stone? In one of the flashbacks they kind of melt it and it becomes sand.

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, my original pitch to myself on Stonewards, one of their main powers--I mean, everybody has two--but this power you're talking about was the ability to grab matter and just kind of-- like what if the whole world were clay to you. Not just stone, not just rock, but if you could just pick something up and stretch it, whatever it was, that was my original pitch for that order.

Questioner

So architects or combat engineers fill that order?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, stuff like that, but also, just kind of like you need to get out of a room? Well, let's mash ourselves a doorway here and step through, or just all kinds of stuff. 

Questioner 2

Can they do that to living flesh?

Brandon Sanderson

No. That's the general, the more Invested something is the more it resists, and Stoneward powers are highly resisted by things... Even a small amount of extra Investiture is gonna prevent them. Like if you stuck Stormlight in [an object], say a Windrunner did, a Stoneward wouldn't be able to change that.

Orem signing (March 10, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Can you tell me anything about Tension or Cohesion?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't truly written these magics in yet, so they might change as I actually write the scenes. But they are... Tension is the ability to take something flexible and make it rigid. Which you think sounds simple, but there are so many cool things you could do with that.

Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014)

 

[AlastorBM He]

Hello! I was looking for information on these surges and we don't know much more than simple explanations and a few glances. 
My question is when we saw these two, are they used together? In the vision of Dalinar, the radiant that makes steps to climb the slope uses cohesion but uses tension in turn to make them more rigid? Or is it only enough with cohesion? This would give a lot of play in combat for example, I say molding the earth and making it very rigid again in offensive ways sounds great. What opinions do you have?

[alder24]

17 hours ago, AlastorBM said:

My question is when we saw these two, are they used together? In the vision of Dalinar, the radiant that makes steps to climb the slope uses cohesion but uses tension in turn to make them more rigid? Or is it only enough with cohesion? This would give a lot of play in combat for example, I say molding the earth and making it very rigid again in offensive ways sounds great. What opinions do you have?

Cohesion is enough on its own to do that. It allows you to shape solids like there were clay and solidify them in that position - and we've seen Venli using it in that way. RoW ch 83:

Quote

Timbre exulted in the Rhythm of Hope as Venli pushed her hand into the stone. It felt good, warm and enveloping. Unlike what happened with the Deepest Ones, Venli displaced the rock. It became as crem in her fingers, soft to the touch.
She wasn’t expert enough to get it to move on its own into the shapes she wanted. It usually did what it wanted in those cases, such as forming the tiny statues on the floor above. So for now, she simply pushed her hand forward until it hit air on the other side. Then she pressed with her other hand and pulled the two apart, forming an opening straight through the stone—the normally hard rock curling and bunching up before her touch.
[...]
Well, it did the job. She managed to form a hole big enough for the human girl. When Venli let go of the stone, it hardened instantly—she had to shake a few chips of it free of her fingers. The girl poked it, then hopped through.

Venli has access to only Cohesion, not Tension. Cohesion allows the manipulation of bonds between atoms (Axi), making things easier to shape. RoW Ars Arcanum:

Quote

Nevertheless, a practiced Stoneward or Willshaper can mold stone as if it were clay, weakening the bonds between axi. (Indeed, this can be done to other materials as well, I’m led to believe, but stone is the easiest and most common application.) This is not simply a chemical process. Normally, one might expect heat to be involved to excite the axi, but this is not the case. Indeed, it is the Intent of the user that is relevant here.
The stone senses the desire of the Stoneward, and the practitioner is able to shape it through desire as much as through physical force

Cohesion allows you to alter shapes by making things like clay, Tension allows you to make things more rigid.  The Stoneward from Dalinar's vision was only using Cohesion as after you mold the object to its new shape, it solidifies.

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Can you tell me anything about Tension or Cohesion?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't truly written these magics in yet, so they might change as I actually write the scenes. But they are... Tension is the ability to take something flexible and make it rigid. Which you think sounds simple, but there are so many cool things you could do with that.

Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

[...]

Cohesion allows you to alter the shape of solid objects.

Tension allows you to alter the stiffness of objects.

Footnote: This information is only shown on the results pages of the Official Knights Radiant Order Quiz.
The Ten Orders of Knights Radiant (June 9, 2020)

 

In another WoB Peter thinks that the Stormfather statement from that scene is false (he claimed it's a power Dalinar will be able to use, that's Tension), so this is further proof that it was only Cohesion used there.

Spoiler

Pagerunner

I was at the Houston signing, and Brandon referred me to you on a few technical questions that I was asking him, since he he was quite "brain dead."

First was what Surges the Bondsmiths have. Based on the ordering in the Ars Arcanum in WoR and OB, they should have Tension. But the application of the shared Surge we saw for both Stonewards and Bondsmiths in OB looks to line up more with Brandon's previous description of Cohesion from the Words of Radiance tour. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/223/#e6061, although he did identify it as a Willshaper Surge there.) Brandon believed it was an error in the Ars Arcanum, and that Bondsmiths do have Cohesion, but he told me to confirm that with you.

Peter Ahlstrom

What power did you see in the book that Bondsmiths and Stonewards share?

Pagerunner

In Chapter 38:

The Shardbearer pressed his hand against the incline leading up to the Voidbringer, and again the stone seemed to writhe. Steps formed in the rock, as if it were made of wax that could flow and be shaped.

...

"And that Shardbearer I saw? A Herald?"

No. Merely a Stoneward. The Surge that changed the stone is the other you may learn, though it may serve you differently.

Which seems to align with how Brandon has previously described Cohesion in the past, as opposed to Tension.

I assume this Surge is what Dalinar used to repair the temple of Talenel in Chapter 59, but that's not actually essential to the point.

Peter Ahlstrom

I think this has to be an error in the text.

Pagerunner

Sorry, which do you think is the error? The order of Surges in the Ars Arcanum? Or the Stormfather's statement to Dalinar?

Peter Ahlstrom

The Stormfather's statement.

Peter Ahlstrom

I have verified with Brandon that what the Stormfather said here is wrong and will be corrected in the future.

General Reddit 2017 (Dec. 14, 2017)

 

[AlastorBM He]

33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Cohesion allows you to alter shapes by making things like clay, Tension allows you to make things more rigid.  The Stoneward from Dalinar's vision was only using Cohesion as after you mold the object to its new shape, it solidifies.

Thank you! I had my doubts but I wanted to confirm it. 
I thought about it because I was curious about how the two surges would be used together, we saw very little of them. 
Any thoughts on this, any guesses? theories?