#SayTheWords Videos Have New Dates

[logicalpencils]

The currently releasing #saythewords videos for each of the Radiant orders are in-universe entries by an apprentice of Hoid. The Windrunner entry is dated "Sixth Epoch, year 31, [43rd day of the Rosharan calendar]". It's unlikely to be an offworld dating system given it uses the Rosharan names for month/week/day. But this leaves me with a question:

The year is supposedly 1174 by RoW. So has the dating system retroactively been restarted at the Everstorm, or will it change at whatever event ends the next book, 31 years before this Hoid apprentice makes this observation of the orders? Either way this epoch six deal is new — we've never actually gotten an explanation for what event happened 1170 years-ish before the books started (it would be a while after the Recreance, but before the Hierocracy).

To say there have been six total epochs... would that include things like the Dawnsinger era, or pre-Shattering history?

I guess it's also possible that this date is thousands of years before the books begin — perhaps the sixth epoch began with Aharietiam, and the knights would have still been around to study.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, logicalpencils said:

The currently releasing #saythewords videos for each of the Radiant orders are in-universe entries by an apprentice of Hoid. The Windrunner entry is dated "Sixth Epoch, year 31, [43rd day of the Rosharan calendar]". It's unlikely to be an offworld dating system given it uses the Rosharan names for month/week/day. But this leaves me with a question:

The year is supposedly 1174 by RoW. So has the dating system retroactively been restarted at the Everstorm, or will it change at whatever event ends the next book, 31 years before this Hoid apprentice makes this observation of the orders? Either way this epoch six deal is new — we've never actually gotten an explanation for what event happened 1170 years-ish before the books started (it would be a while after the Recreance, but before the Hierocracy).

To say there have been six total epochs... would that include things like the Dawnsinger era, or pre-Shattering history?

I guess it's also possible that this date is thousands of years before the books begin — perhaps the sixth epoch began with Aharietiam, and the knights would have still been around to study.

It was implied in the Starfalls vision (WoK Ch 19) that each "epoch" was the span between desolations:

Spoiler

The female knight slowed to allow Dalinar and Taffa to keep pace with her.

“I must know,” Dalinar said, feeling foolish. “What year is it?”

The knight turned to him. Her helm was gone. He blinked; when had that happened? Unlike her companion, she had light skin—not pale like someone from Shinovar, but a natural light tan, like an Alethi. “It is Eighth Epoch, three thirty-seven.”

Eighth Epoch? Dalinar thought. What does that mean? This vision had been different from the others. They had been more brief, for one thing. And the voice that spoke to him. Where was it?

“Where am I?” Dalinar asked the knight. “What kingdom?”

The knight frowned. “Are you not healed?”

“I am well. I just…I need to know. Which kingdom am I in?”

“This is Natanatan.”

So, that date should be the 31st year after the end of the Sixth Desolation. Well before Aharietiam.

We don't know how many there were total, just a range. WoB:

Spoiler

R'Shara

How many times did a Herald break and let the Fused return to Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, so how many Desolations were there, total?

R'Shara

Between the Oathpact and Aharietiam?

Brandon Sanderson

Not as many as people say there are.

R'Shara

More than fifty, less than fifty?

Brandon Sanderson

I would guess offhand more than fifteen, but not much more. That's the sort of thing I just have to look at the timeline on. You're catching me flat-footed on that one. I would have to go look. Not as many as they think, but more than fifteen.

R'Shara

More than fifteen? Okay, because I actually asked more than fifty.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh you asked more than fifty. More than fifteen, less than fifty.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

Hope that helps

Edited January 10 by Treamayne
SPAG

[logicalpencils]

So we know that Hoid has had apprentices studying Roshar for a very long time, and probably that Radiants existed by the Sixth Desolation if Epoch = Desolation.

Is there any answer for the event 1173 years before WoK?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

5 hours ago, Treamayne said:

It was implied in the Starfalls vision (WoK Ch 19) that each "epoch" was the span between desolations:

You are raising a question about a detail. Do they name it for the desolation after it or before it? That is had they retroactively named the time before the first desolation thhe first epoch?

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

You are raising a question about a detail. Do they name it for the desolation after it or before it? That is had they retroactively named the time before the first desolation thhe first epoch?

Those are Heraldic Epochs, named after Heralds. I think the first one was after/during the First Singer Desolation, when Fused and Heralds were made. The First Epoch probably ended when the 2nd Desolation started.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

21 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Those are Heraldic Epochs, named after Heralds. I think the first one was after/during the First Singer Desolation, when Fused and Heralds were made.

Absolutely, but this naming was most likely done retroactively. Like before the Second World War the First World War was known as the Great War. You need a second or even third Desolation to make clear that you are living in a cycle of Desolations, don't you? And at that time, how do you do the numbering?

[alder24]

6 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Absolutely, but this naming was most likely done retroactively. Like before the Second World War the First World War was known as the Great War. You need a second or even third Desolation to make clear that you are living in a cycle of Desolations, don't you? And at that time, how do you do the numbering?

They might just call it the 1st Epoch, not because they were expecting more Desolations, but to emphasize that it's the start of a new era. Or they might call it the Heraldic Epoch, and when Heralds returned starting the 2nd Desolation, they called that one the 2nd Epoch and retroactively named the previous one the 1st Epoch. We don't know, but it doesn't really matter. What they now call the 1st Epoch most likely started with Heralds, thus the 1st Singer Desolation was happening during the 1st Epoch.

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You are raising a question about a detail. Do they name it for the desolation after it or before it? That is had they retroactively named the time before the first desolation the first epoch?

Well, as @alder24 said - they are Heraldric Epochs.

50 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Those are Heraldic Epochs, named after Heralds. I think the first one was after/during the First Singer Desolation, when Fused and Heralds were made. The First Epoch probably ended when the 2nd Desolation started.

To me, pending new data, my headcannon is this:

Spoiler

• Ashynites arrive
• Humanity Spreads
• Turmoil starts. . .
• War!
  • Fused Created
  • Heralds created in response
• War Ends, Heralds Depart
  • The period from War to the departure of the Heralds is named a Desolation (retroactively)
• Time passes (Centuries between early desolations, IIRC)
• Heralds arrive, announce a new Desolation is coming
  • The period from Herald Departure to Herald Arrival is named an Epoch (retroactively)
• Second Desolation
  • Second Epoch
• Third Desolation
  • Third Epoch
• Etc.
  • Etc.

Obviously low on hard data and evidence; but supported, I think, by a lot of circumstancial data.

Sorry for the tangent, OP.

 

[logicalpencils]

Thank you all for reminding me about the name "Heraldic Epochs". Another question, then: Is there any clear implication for which Epoch Nohadon lived in? He worries about increasing regularity between Desolations, right? And yet it is said The Way of Kings inspired the Radiants, which would have been new at the time. It seems to me that Sixth or Fifth Epoch fits pretty well.

[Treamayne]

5 hours ago, logicalpencils said:

Thank you all for reminding me about the name "Heraldic Epochs". Another question, then: Is there any clear implication for which Epoch Nohadon lived in? He worries about increasing regularity between Desolations, right? And yet it is said The Way of Kings inspired the Radiants, which would have been new at the time. It seems to me that Sixth or Fifth Epoch fits pretty well.

Really, the only indications are that Bajerden lived and ruled late enough that people have already switched to calling the Singers "Voidbringers" and Radiants have already occupied Urithiru - but early enough that it does not seem like all surgebinders identify as Knights Radiant - since a key event of the first vision was that a rogue Surgebinder, Alakavish, caused a large war right before a Desolation.

We do not know which Epoch that would be, so your headcanon is as valid as any until we get more information.