Ironeyes (Tress and Mistborn Era 2 mild spoilers)

[JanalinAladar She/her]

So I read Tress recently and I was shocked when she referenced death as "with iron in his eyes" (sorry I can't remember the exact words).

Does this mean Marsh has worldhopped or acted as the one that greets people before they get pulled into the Beyond on other planets? If it's the latter does that mean Harmony (or Discord depending on the timeline) can send Marsh to fill that roll on planets without a Shard? Also on planets without a Shard is there no one who greets the recently dead or on Tress' planet is there maybe an Aether who fills this role? 

Sorry for the rambling let me know your thoughts :3

[Treamayne]

56 minutes ago, JanalinAladar said:

So I read Tress recently and I was shocked when she referenced death as "with iron in his eyes" (sorry I can't remember the exact words).

Does this mean Marsh has worldhopped or acted as the one that greets people before they get pulled into the Beyond on other planets? If it's the latter does that mean Harmony (or Discord depending on the timeline) can send Marsh to fill that roll on planets without a Shard? Also on planets without a Shard is there no one who greets the recently dead or on Tress' planet is there maybe an Aether who fills this role? 

Sorry for the rambling let me know your thoughts :3

This was (kinda) covered in the Ars Arcanum for The Lost Metal:

Spoiler

I have, after lengthy questing, obtained an interview with Marsh, the one known as Ironeyes on Scadrial. (As a side note, it is curious how news of his nature is spreading to other worlds. Is this natural rumormongering, or something more supernatural?)

As the numbers of Worldhoppers increase, stories from different worlds are also being shared across worlds. Marsh may or may not have Worldhopped himself, but that is likely seperate from the stories of "Ironeyes" being related to "Death" across multiple worlds (just as variants of the Grim Reaper have been seen in multiple cultures over the centuries).  

When in doubt, blame Hoid. . . 

[JanalinAladar She/her]

18 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

This was (kinda) covered in the Ars Arcanum for The Lost Metal:

  Hide contents

I have, after lengthy questing, obtained an interview with Marsh, the one known as Ironeyes on Scadrial. (As a side note, it is curious how news of his nature is spreading to other worlds. Is this natural rumormongering, or something more supernatural?)

Thank you I completely forgot about this it'll be really interesting how Marsh's role in the greater Cosmere will change going into Era 3 and 4

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

I mean there are Kandra on other worlds, I assume they are spreading tales of Ironeyes just to tick Marsh off 

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Treamayne said:

This was (kinda) covered in the Ars Arcanum for The Lost Metal:

  Hide contents

I have, after lengthy questing, obtained an interview with Marsh, the one known as Ironeyes on Scadrial. (As a side note, it is curious how news of his nature is spreading to other worlds. Is this natural rumormongering, or something more supernatural?)

As the numbers of Worldhoppers increase, stories from different worlds are also being shared across worlds. Marsh may or may not have Worldhopped himself, but that is likely seperate from the stories of "Ironeyes" being related to "Death" across multiple worlds (just as variants of the Grim Reaper have been seen in multiple cultures over the centuries).  

When in doubt, blame Hoid. . . 

Notice please that Khriss speculates between two possibilities. It's equally as likely that due to Scadrians perception of Marsh as Death, the concept of death in the Spiritual Realm is filtered through overwhelming perception of Scadrians and it starts to manifest on different planets as Marsh (or via whatever different Cosmere spiritual mechanics this is happening) - just like the concept of the God Beyond pops out from Dalinar and Wayne's mouths suddenly out of nowhere. 

I think this idea is too important to just dismiss it and simplify it as “rumors.” In my opinion there is something spiritual going on here.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

40 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Notice please that Khriss speculates between two possibilities. It's equally as likely that due to Scadrians perception of Marsh as Death, the concept of death in the Spiritual Realm is filtered through overwhelming perception of Scadrians and it starts to manifest on different planets as Marsh (or via whatever different Cosmere spiritual mechanics this is happening) - just like the concept of the God Beyond pops out from Dalinar and Wayne's mouths suddenly out of nowhere. 

I think this idea is too important to just dismiss it and simplify it as “rumors.” In my opinion there is something spiritual going on here.

Maybe not Marsh himself but some spren like entity that is forming on different planets to fill that role?  Perhaps the rumor mill has manipulated and created such a concentrated belief in it that it is now manifesting on other planets... further assumptions that it could just be appearing to those who believe what they have heard as well?  

 

[alder24]

1 minute ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Maybe not Marsh himself but some spren like entity that is forming on different planets to fill that role?  Perhaps the rumor mill has manipulated and created such a concentrated belief in it that it is now manifesting on other planets... further assumptions that it could just be appearing to those who believe what they have heard as well?  

No, I don't think death is physically manifesting on other planets, but rather the concept of it, the idea, the thought of Marsh as Death is "bleeding" through the Spiritual Realm to different places and people.

Whatever spren-like entities that are personifications of death (like Deathspren) can be influenced by this, but that won't be very direct and it would take a long time - I mean by this that you won't have spren looking like Marsh walking around on different planets. The concept of death is something bigger than spren.   

Spoiler

Just_A_Silvereye

In the cosmere, if everyone on a planet believes unicorns exist, would some kind of unicorn shadow appear in the Cognitive Realm as a result?

If yes, could you create an actual, physical unicorn out of it?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it's not going to quite work this way. What's going to happen if everyone believes unicorns exist, but they don't, there's various things that could happen. You might end up with some Investiture taking on this persona and becoming this, but it's not like you can create it, but over time you might end up with the equivalent of a spren. Then it's not going to be just a physical unicorn running around. It's gonna have more spren aspects, and my guess would be that over time these things feed each other. Right? Like people see one, and then they describe, "This is what it looked like," and that changes the public perception to better match. And then over thousands of years what you end up with is, "Hey there's things in the forest over there that are a type of mysterious creature that are transparent and look a little like a horse with a horn, but maybe fly," or things like this. You would end up with something in the middle, between the two of them.

Things wouldn't naturally pop up on Shadesmar unless there's free Investiture in that same sort of way.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

[Colors]

The image of Marsh as "Iron Eyes" is a striking one. I think it's probably a combination of the impact of perception and the lasting impact of his image for Scadrians actually impacting the cognitive/spiritual concept of death....in combination with references to him spread by actual Scadrian world hoppers, including Kandra. Like I said, his image is a striking one, and one I would surmise would be easy to spread as those are the kind of stories and references people seem to cling to accross cultures. 

I actually doubt it has much, if anything to do with Marsh worldhopping himself. Seems to be more Scadrian cultural proliferation and cognitive/spiritual shenanigans. 

[alder24]

30 minutes ago, Colors said:

The image of Marsh as "Iron Eyes" is a striking one.

Marsh was called Ironeyes even before he became an Inquisitor. Unlucky coincidence. TFE ch 10:

Quote

"Marsh,” Vin whispered beneath the general hum of the room. “Is that a nickname?”
“Notting without the call of his parents.”
Vin paused, trying to decipher the boy’s eastern dialect. “Not a nickname, then?”
Lestibournes shook his head. “He wasing one though.”
“What was it?”
“Ironeyes. Others stopped using it. Too calling close to an iron in the real eyes, eh? Inquisitor.”
Vin glanced at Marsh again. His expression was hard, his eyes unwavering, almost like they were made of iron. She could see why people would stop using the nickname; even referring to a Steel Inquisitor made her shiver

TFE ch 20:

Quote

“You know how Kelsier feels about the nobility?” Marsh asked, turning toward her, his eyes like ice.
Ironeyes, she thought. Like they said. She nodded to his question.

 

[Colors]

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Marsh was called Ironeyes even before he became an Inquisitor. Unlucky coincidence. TFE ch 10:

TFE ch 20:

 

Yep, I remember. It's a dope nickname. Always liked Marsh, even before everything that happened to him. The image of him after HoA though, like I said is a very striking one. I used "Iron Eyes" in quotations because I meant the symbolic image he has become. People don't know who Marsh is anymore, they know the image of Iron Eyes, a man with literal spikes where his eyes should be. 

Edited February 22 by Colors

[QuantumAce]

On 2/22/2024 at 8:50 AM, alder24 said:

Notice please that Khriss speculates between two possibilities. It's equally as likely that due to Scadrians perception of Marsh as Death, the concept of death in the Spiritual Realm is filtered through overwhelming perception of Scadrians and it starts to manifest on different planets as Marsh (or via whatever different Cosmere spiritual mechanics this is happening) - just like the concept of the God Beyond pops out from Dalinar and Wayne's mouths suddenly out of nowhere. 

I think this idea is too important to just dismiss it and simplify it as “rumors.” In my opinion there is something spiritual going on here.

I believe it is something spiritual, but the simple rumors are a critical component. I could see something general like the idea of a manifestation of Death escorting a soul to the afterlife being influenced by Scadrian perception, because the question "what happens when we die?" is universal. There is already a demand, a vacuum actively pulling in existing ideas. Details like iron and eyes seem too specific to propagate without some sort of catalyst. Natural rumormongering that spreads specific details to even a handful of native inhabitants could provide that connection. 

Of course my perception is influenced by depictions of the grim reaper with a shrouded face or empty eye sockets, so take that for what its worth.