Fullborn Alternate Names

[LightRinger he/him]

@robardin, @Zapata, and @Returned brought this up a bit in a different thread, but I thought it’d be a fun thing to discuss. What would you call Fullborn if it was up to you? I’m leaning towards Metalborn or Full Metalborn, but I could get on board with Omnimetal, Omniborn, or God. I’m heavily against Mistemist and 32Born. Any other ideas?

[Returned]

Fullmetal? It's already the name of a famous anime and manga series, and means something like "stubborn" in Japanese, but it gets the basic ideas across...

[+robardin he/him]

10 hours ago, LightRinger said:

@robardin, @Zapata, and @Returned brought this up a bit in a different thread, but I thought it’d be a fun thing to discuss. What would you call Fullborn if it was up to you? I’m leaning towards Metalborn or Full Metalborn, but I could get on board with Omnimetal, Omniborn, or God. I’m heavily against Mistemist and 32Born. Any other ideas?

32Born??? That's a new one to me, LOL.

 

9 hours ago, Returned said:

Fullmetal? It's already the name of a famous anime and manga series, and means something like "stubborn" in Japanese, but it gets the basic ideas across...

Yeah, it's "taken", I would say, otherwise kind of perfect.

My comment was that stacking multiple metals with both Metalborn powers and enabling Compounding, on shared metals, without Hemalurgy or some external device like the Bands, is something we've only seen achieved in Rashek. So maybe we may as well name it after him.

Not quite "Ascension" but becoming a "Rasheki"? After all, when Vin and Elend started to see Inquisitors with new spikes for Feruchemy in HoA, they refer to them as like fighting "another Lord Ruler".

Edited March 8 by robardin

[alder24]

11 hours ago, LightRinger said:

@robardin, @Zapata, and @Returned brought this up a bit in a different thread, but I thought it’d be a fun thing to discuss. What would you call Fullborn if it was up to you? I’m leaning towards Metalborn or Full Metalborn, but I could get on board with Omnimetal, Omniborn, or God. I’m heavily against Mistemist and 32Born. Any other ideas?

I don't see any problem with the name Fullborn, it's catchy, easy to say, easy to understand - we still call Eland a Mistborn even though he wasn't born a Mistborn, so why is there a problem with Rashek being a Fullborn? It's the shortened version of a Full Metalborn.

God? Nope, let's not go in that way again.

 

 

Ok, just hear me out - Allpounder!

[Trusk'our he/him]

31 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Ok, just hear me out - Allpounder!

So. . . I assume you mean as in they destroy any other opponent?

1 hour ago, robardin said:

My comment was that stacking multiple metals with both Metalborn powers and enabling Compounding, on shared metals, without Hemalurgy or some external device like the Bands, is something we've only seen achieved in Rashek. So maybe we may as well name it after him.

Not quite "Ascension" but becoming a "Rasheki"? After all, when Vin and Elend started to see Inquisitors with new spikes for Feruchemy in HoA, they refer to them as like fighting "another Lord Ruler".

Not a bad idea. Rasheki or something may be usable, I'd say.

33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I don't see any problem with the name Fullborn, it's catchy, easy to say, easy to understand - we still call Eland a Mistborn even though he wasn't born a Mistborn, so why is there a problem with Rashek being a Fullborn? It's the shortened version of a Full Metalborn.

Yeah, I'd still say that Fullborn works pretty well.

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

So. . . I assume you mean as in they destroy any other opponent?

That too and they can compound all metals. Double meaning!

Edited March 8 by alder24

[Quantus he/him]

The Sedecimant. 

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I don't see any problem with the name Fullborn, it's catchy, easy to say, easy to understand - we still call Eland a Mistborn even though he wasn't born a Mistborn, so why is there a problem with Rashek being a Fullborn? It's the shortened version of a Full Metalborn.

God? Nope, let's not go in that way again.

 

 

Ok, just hear me out - Allpounder!

The only downside is, "Mistborn" is a term used in-world, and while "wrong" (Mistborn were not, in fact, "born" from the mists - if anything, some subset of Mistings were "mistsnapped" into existence), it's because they were all either TLR or part of his crew of ten (?) lerasium ingestors that emerged out of nowhere after "the mists receded" (aka the "Deepness was defeated") and oh yeah, the sun went red, the continents moved around, ash filled the sky, little stuff like that.

As far as the people of that time could tell, they were indeed "born" from the mists, as if the mists disappeared as part of the reason all those things happened. (Which was not, in fact, untrue, but with A Lot More to That Story Than They Knew About.)

And then later, the term carried over to describe their descendants with the same powerset. The ones that appeared after a few generations with only access to a single metal got a diminutive term.

OTOH the term "Fullborn" is not used in-world on Scadrial, and is unlikely to be the term they would come up with in-world. The only context they have for such a thing is Rashek TLR. Even when wielding or referring to using the Bands, someone like Wax or Edwarn doesn't say "and you will be as a Fullborn", rather that they would be "like the Lord Ruler".

It's also why they immediately assumed "The Sovereign" who Allik tells them created the Bands, and must have been someone who had "both powers for all sixteen metals in one person", must have been TLR who somehow survived or reincarnated in the South. They don't say "Wow, another Fullborn popped up down there?!".

I have no problem using "Fullborn" on a fan message board, there's a lot of history/tradition of that here already that I'm not suggesting we throw out. But I also think it's fun to consider what a Kelsier, Khriss, or Harmony might come up with as a term for it.

Edited March 8 by robardin

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, robardin said:

The only downside is, "Mistborn" is a term used in-world, and while "wrong" (Mistborn were not, in fact, "born" from the mists - if anything, some subset of Mistings were "mistsnapped" into existence), it's because they were all either TLR or part of his crew of ten (?) lerasium ingestors that emerged out of nowhere after "the mists receded" (aka the "Deepness was defeated") and oh yeah, the sun went red, the continents moved around, ash filled the sky, little stuff like that.

As far as the people of that time could tell, they were indeed "born" from the mists, as if the mists disappeared as part of the reason all those things happened. (Which was not, in fact, untrue, but with A Lot More to That Story Than They Knew About.)

And then later, the term carried over to describe their descendants with the same powerset. The ones that appeared after a few generations with only access to a single metal got a diminutive term.

OTOH the term "Fullborn" is not used in-world on Scadrial, and is unlikely to be the term they would come up with in-world. The only context they have for such a thing is Rashek TLR. Even when wielding or referring to using the Bands, someone like Wax or Edwarn doesn't say "and you will be as a Fullborn", rather that they would be "like the Lord Ruler".

It's also why they immediately assumed "The Sovereign" who Allik tells them created the Bands, and must have been someone who had "both powers for all sixteen metals in one person", must have been TLR who somehow survived or reincarnated in the South. They don't say "Wow, another Fullborn popped up down there?!".

I have no problem using "Fullborn" on a fan message board, there's a lot of history/tradition of that here already that I'm not suggesting we throw out. But I also think it's fun to consider what a Kelsier, Khriss, or Harmony might come up with as a term for it.

I understand it all, I know it's not an in-world term, but I see no problems with it being developed there. It can originate as a combination of terms Mistborn + Full Feruchemist. That's so simple. The more science and technology on Scadrial advances, the less they will look at the mysticism of Metalborn, the less likely they are to come up with reasons like the word Mistborn has, instead they will be looking for something simple and understandable by all. Fullborn is one such word, naming it after Rashek in some way is also very reasonable, as you proposed. 

However the downside of naming people with both full powers after Rashak is that they would carry his legacy in their title - and that's a legacy of a god-emperor, enslaving the entire world, brutally executing all those who opposed him. I don't think anyone would want to refer to this, it can spark some power hungry ideas in future Fullborns. It's safer not to call them after Rashek.

And yes, I agree, it's fun.

[Treamayne]

9 hours ago, robardin said:

The only downside is, "Mistborn" is a term used in-world, and while "wrong" (Mistborn were not, in fact, "born" from the mists - if anything, some subset of Mistings were "mistsnapped" into existence), it's because they were all either TLR or part of his crew of ten (?) lerasium ingestors that emerged out of nowhere after "the mists receded" (aka the "Deepness was defeated") and oh yeah, the sun went red, the continents moved around, ash filled the sky, little stuff like that.

Just to be fair, Mistborn was TLR's term because he knew the truth:

Spoiler

The Beads of Lerasium are Preservation's power - The Mists are Preservation's power

Mistborn is a partialy obscured reference to "born with the hereditary power of the Beads" since Beads and Mist are fundamentally the same. 
(and Beadborn sounds silly)

Truth obscured through lateral references to build his Steel Ministry from the early days.

 

WoA Annotation to Ch 59:

Quote

I had always intended them to discover where the first Mistborn had come from when they reached the Well of Ascension, and this bead of metal is very important to the cosmology of Scadrial and, indeed, the entire overarching story of my books as a whole.

Elend was intended to become Mistborn from the very early stages of this book’s development. So, I figured I ought to do something to him that would make him NEED to be Mistborn. 

HoA Ch 16 Epigraph:

Quote

 That night, when we discovered the Well for the first time, we found something we didn’t understand. A black smoke, clogging one of the rooms.

Though we discussed it after the fact, we couldn’t decide what that was. How could we possibly have known?

The body of a god—or, rather, the power of a god, since the two are really the same thing. Ruin and Preservation inhabited power and energy in the same way a person inhabits flesh and blood.

HoA Ch 22 Epigraph

Quote

The beads of metal found at the Well—beads that made men into Mistborn—were the reason why Allomancers used to be more powerful. Those first Mistborn were as Elend Venture became—possessing a primal power, which was then passed down through the lines of the nobility, weakening a bit with each generation.

The Lord Ruler was one of these ancient Allomancers, his power pure and unadulterated by time and breeding. That is part of why he was so mighty compared to other Mistborn—though, admittedly, his ability to mix Feruchemy and Allomancy was what produced many of his most spectacular abilities. Still, it is interesting to me that one of his "divine" powers—his essential Allomantic strength—was something every one of the original nine Allomancers possessed.

HoA Annotation to Ch 38:

Quote

First, to these forces, energy and mass are the same thing. So, their power can take physical shape—as Preservation’s did in the bead of metal Elend ate.

HoA Annotations to Ch 49:

Quote

 These are the people the mists are Snapping—since the mists are, themselves, partially the power of Preservation, they can touch people and increase their Allomantic potential slightly and then bring it to the forefront.

HoA Ch 62 Epigraph:

Quote

The Allomancers alive in our day are the descendants of the men who ate those few beads of Preservation’s power. They formed the foundation of the nobility, and were the first to name him emperor.

The power in these few beads was so concentrated that it could last through ten centuries of breeding and inheritance.

HoA Ch 65:

Quote

And, with that power, she Pushed on Marsh’s emotions.

The wall inside of him cracked, then burst. For a moment, Vin felt a sense of vertigo. She saw things through Marsh’s eyes—indeed, she felt like she understood him. His love of destruction, and his hatred of himself. And through him, she caught a brief glimpse of something. A hateful, destructive thing that hid behind a mask of civility.

Ruin was not the same thing as the mists.

 

 

 

[+hwiles]

I kind of like the term Elemental, for those who have achieved the degree of control over a magic system necessary to change what it does and how it operates on a fundamental level.

The Lord Ruler didn't just master allomancy and feruchemy, and he didn't simply combine them...he...plugged one into the other and made them both do things that no God had intended to be possible and no human soul could be born with the capacity to be able to do in such a way that (almost) no one could stop him.

So...I'd say he achieved metaphorical and literal Elemental control over the 'reality' around him.

[+robardin he/him]

On 3/8/2024 at 9:08 PM, Treamayne said:

Just to be fair, Mistborn was TLR's term because he knew the truth:

  Hide contents

The Beads of Lerasium are Preservation's power - The Mists are Preservation's power...

Mistborn is a partially obscured reference to "born with the hereditary power of the Beads" since Beads and Mist are fundamentally the same. 
(and Beadborn sounds silly)

Truth obscured through lateral references to build his Steel Ministry from the early days.

The only explanation for the term "Mistborn" in-world came from the scant history of those early years recorded Sazed's metalminds, that the earliest Allomancers appeared "with the mists" (the mistsnapping that began happening as the Well of Ascension drew close to filling, as described by Alendi's logbook, and as witnessed by Sazed even before Ruin was released).

It's not a term that TLR created/promoted with the Steel Ministry, though they did readily use it. The term that appears to be Rashek's invention with his Ministry is "Allomancy", and a wielder of it an "Allomancer", as the Inquisition's mission is to seek out and brutally punish "crimes against Allomancy" as blasphemy (which is not limited to hunting down illegal half-bred skaa Allomancers, it also included punishing nobles who abuse it, like by using it to try to influence an obligator).

For all we know, that word is derived from his having "allocated" the beads of lerasium to his original key followers!

It does appear the origin of the powers with ingesting a bead of metal was successfully suppressed; I guess the original kings were told to say they were "given the divine power by The Lord Ruler, who is God Himself, and surpasses even us in might", as a way to kickstart the Steel Ministry as a true religion with tangible proof of real power.

[Treamayne]

30 minutes ago, robardin said:

The only explanation for the term "Mistborn" in-world came from the scant history

Right, that's the in-world explanation. But for that to be the legend, there must be truth upon which it is based, and the Words of Founding Epigraphs make a point of repeatedly hammering home:

• Mists are Preservation
• Beads are Preservation
• Elend became Mistborn because he ingested the power of Preservation
• TLR created the first Mistborn (himself) with the power
• TLR offered the powers of Mistborn to rulers that bent the knee to him

So, yes, there is nothing that "says" Mistborn is a double meaning obfuscating the beads - but the implication drips from most of the epigraphs and annotations all through Hero of Ages. Afterall, how could TLR have offered to make somebody "Mistborn" with a bead if he had not already coined the term? Alendi did not know he was an Allomancer (or a Seeker) and they did not have the lexicon to even name those things at the point he travelled to Terris. 

Edited March 10 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Duxredux he/him]

I don't think it would catch on, but I kind of like Fluxburner. Flux is a variety of compounds that are often used when welding metal together (even two different metals), and flux also means something constantly changing. The word also has slant similarities to Feruchemist, Mistborn, and Compounder and I think hints at all of them. The catch is that flux isn't actually metal and is an artificial additive to make the weld go easier... much like how a full Feruchemist + Mistborn just isn't possible naturally I suppose.

That or the bland descriptive "Full Compounder". We've started saying Full Feruchemist as we now use Feruchemist for anyone with Feruchemical abilities and to distinguish from Ferrings. Right now, Compounding has its own article on Coppermind and specifies using Allomancy to enhance Feruchemy. I think people intuitively know what a Gold Compounder or Steel Compounder does, so Full Compounder feels like it would be similarly intuitive, but almost by definition the person who thought of the name shouldn't be used to determine if it's intuitive or not.

[+robardin he/him]

3 hours ago, Duxredux said:

... the bland descriptive "Full Compounder". We've started saying Full Feruchemist as we now use Feruchemist for anyone with Feruchemical abilities and to distinguish from Ferrings. Right now, Compounding has its own article on Coppermind and specifies using Allomancy to enhance Feruchemy. I think people intuitively know what a Gold Compounder or Steel Compounder does, so Full Compounder feels like it would be similarly intuitive, but almost by definition the person who thought of the name shouldn't be used to determine if it's intuitive or not.

Well, say "Full Compounder" out loud.

Now say it faster. And faster. And faster.

Full Compounder.

F'l C'mpounder.

F'l'c'p'nder.

...Flounder?

 

[Duxredux he/him]

36 minutes ago, robardin said:

Well, say "Full Compounder" out loud.

Now say it faster. And faster. And faster.

Full Compounder.

F'l C'mpounder.

F'l'c'p'nder.

...Flounder?

 

Uh... Nnnnno. Nope. I don't think I can call The Lord Ruler the first known Flounder with a straight face, and even if I were to succeed, I would get really confused looks. Especially when I talk about how incredibly powerful Flounders are. 

I mean, imagine the Coppermind article:

Quote

Rashek is a Terrisman from Scadrial. Known as the Lord Ruler, the Sliver of Infinity and the Father, he has access to the full range of abilities of both a Feruchemist and an Allomancer making him the first known Flounder, and has Hemalurgic spikes in his body. As a result, he is an extremely powerful Compounder, and he was able to unify much of the world into an empire that lasted for one thousand years.

I