Lighteyed Lieutenant he/him Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Ok, so I just had a friend finish ROW, and I explained the controversy surrounding Moash. I know it's kind of a meme, but I want to know the general leaning of the fandom on this subject. Personally, I cannot forgive him for his crimes against my emotional state, but what do you guys think? Should Moash burn on Braize for the next eternity? Or should he be forgiven and have a redemption arc? Let me know! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 (edited) 22 hours ago, Lighteyed Lieutenant said: I want to know the general leaning of the fandom on this subject. Please see any of these threads where the topic is discussed ad nauseum. Moash (full spoilers) Am I the only one who doesn't hate Moash? Moash Redemption Arc?????? Moash and Vyre (RoW spoiler) Szeth & Moash: They're More Similar Than You Think [Discuss] I hate Moash [Support] Moash and Kaladin [RoW] Moash and Renarin Does anyone still want a Moash redemption arc? Moash should take up Odium... and that should be a good thing Moash, and the fans who hate him (Part 1) and (Part 2) Edited March 10 by Treamayne SPAG 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighteyed Lieutenant he/him Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 Ok, that helps a lot. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 I think that he has done a lot of things wrong. If we can forgive old Dalinar, then, Stormfather, we can forgive Moash for killing one sympathetic character over the body of his son. (*reference reference*) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 12 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said: If we can forgive old Dalinar, then, Stormfather, we can forgive Moash for killing one sympathetic character over the body of his son. (*reference reference*) I think you have that backward. If Moash at any time begins to genuinely feel the remorse that Old Dalinar felt over his actions, he may become worthy of earning a Redemption arc the way that Dalinar did. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, Treamayne said: I think you have that backward. If Moash at any time begins to genuinely feel the remorse that Old Dalinar felt over his actions, he may become worthy of earning a Redemption arc the way that Dalinar did. True, true, yet they both did equally horrible things, Dalinar did worse. I believe that we’ve seen the seeds do Moash’s redemption in book 4 when he is abandoned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 12 hours ago, Lighteyed Lieutenant said: Ok, so I just had a friend finish ROW, and I explained the controversy surrounding Moash. I know it's kind of a meme, but I want to know the general leaning of the fandom on this subject. Personally, I cannot forgive him for his crimes against my emotional state, but what do you guys think? Should Moash burn on Braize for the next eternity? Or should he be forgiven and have a redemption arc? Let me know! Oh, Moash did everything wrong, the question in the poll should be if he deserves redemption. Maybe, but right now I don't want him to get redemption - he never felt sorry for what he did. Dalinar did worse, but he at least felt remorse. But Moash is not there yet and I'm not sure if feeling remorse is enough for me. RoW ch 111: Quote “Teft, I…” He couldn’t say it. The words wouldn’t form. He wasn’t sorry for what he’d done. He was only sorry for how his actions made him feel. 11 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said: we can forgive Moash for killing one sympathetic character In my opinion that wasn't the worst thing Moash did. A much worse crime he committed was telling depressed Kaladin to kill himself. Even killing Teft was done to break Kaladin. That's pure malice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighteyed Lieutenant he/him Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 Quote In my opinion that wasn't the worst thing Moash did. A much worse crime he committed was telling depressed Kaladin to kill himself. Even killing Teft was done to break Kaladin. That's pure malice. I agree. Moash saw the real Kaladin, not Kaladin Stormblessed or Highmarshal Kaladin. He saw the vulnerability, and absolutely ripped into it. I think one of the things about Moash that troubles me deeply is how he gave his emotions away. He sold his soul to the devil so he could commit these acts. He should feel at least something, but instead, there's nothing. And the worst part it, he doesn't care. Our emotions are what make us human. And he threw them away. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our he/him Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 (edited) 20 hours ago, Lighteyed Lieutenant said: Ok, so I just had a friend finish ROW, and I explained the controversy surrounding Moash. I know it's kind of a meme, but I want to know the general leaning of the fandom on this subject. Personally, I cannot forgive him for his crimes against my emotional state, but what do you guys think? Should Moash burn on Braize for the next eternity? Or should he be forgiven and have a redemption arc? Let me know! I noticed that there's no middle ground in the pole. In any case, Moash clearly did terrible, awful things, even going so far as murdering others. Does he deserve redemption? Not really, no. But, then again, I don't think anybody technically does, fictional or not. Redemption isn't about justice, it's about mercy, and if you're willing to offer mercy to people like Dalinar, I don't see how someone could claim to be impartial and not give to others, even if you hate them (which sounds awfully similar to the Knights Radiant and their core tenets). Now, I will also add that if Moash decided to continue harming others even after given mercy and didn't want to change as Dalinar did, then he needs to be removed from a position where he can continue that harm, whether it be a fight to the death or (perhaps more realistically) put in prison. Edited March 10 by Trusk'our 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuantumAce Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 19 hours ago, Lighteyed Lieutenant said: I think one of the things about Moash that troubles me deeply is how he gave his emotions away. He sold his soul to the devil so he could commit these acts. He should feel at least something, but instead, there's nothing. And the worst part it, he doesn't care. Our emotions are what make us human. And he threw them away. I believe intent is important when discussing the possibility of forgiveness and rehabilitation. Moash has thought this through. He chose to suppress his emotions to allow him to commit acts of pure malice. When he was confronted with the reality of his actions, his first instinct was to run back to Odium. He knows what he is doing is wrong, and does not want to change. This would make it more difficult to trust him even if he does ask for forgiveness later. Dalinar on the other hand, was horrified when confronted with the reality of his crimes. He could have gone back to the Thrill to cover his pain and guilt, but chose not to. He knows what he did was wrong, and wants to change. That is the difference for me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofurion Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 2 hours ago, QuantumAce said: I believe intent is important when discussing the possibility of forgiveness and rehabilitation. Moash has thought this through. He chose to suppress his emotions to allow him to commit acts of pure malice. When he was confronted with the reality of his actions, his first instinct was to run back to Odium. He knows what he is doing is wrong, and does not want to change. This would make it more difficult to trust him even if he does ask for forgiveness later. Dalinar on the other hand, was horrified when confronted with the reality of his crimes. He could have gone back to the Thrill to cover his pain and guilt, but chose not to. He knows what he did was wrong, and wants to change. That is the difference for me. I was talking about it with some friends and an interesting comparison came up: Dalinar is Thor and Moash is Baldur (GoW 4 and 5). I think it's a pretty accurate analogy in several ways. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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