Radium he/him Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 (edited) Good afternoon y'all, I wanted to make a discussion about a certain God Metal that I have been thinking about and I would love to hear ideas and theories as to what it could potentially do. To clarify, I am talking about the God Metal of Endowment, I haven't really seen many discussions relating to Endowment, so I wanted to make one of my own and see what crazy abilities could spurn up. My theory, probably not going to happen, but burning Endowments God Metal could potentially make them an awakener with a tremendous amount of breaths. I feel like the God Metal of Endowment could work similarly to Lerasium. But that is my theory at the moment, what are yours? Edited March 12 by LewsTherinTelescope mod action: move and restore name 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 (edited) I dont think it would make you an awakener since that's what a Lerasium/Edglium alloy would do. Simply transforming into an equal amount of Breaths would make sense for Endowment as a concept but it seems a little narratively boring compared to the more unique realmic effects the other godmetals have. The most obvious effect for me would be a similar thing to Harmonium that supplements the Person and Intent part of the Power equation, making it a way to create Awakened Objects with Powers. But that's also already covered more or less by Ettmetal, narratively speaking, so I think he'll Edglium more of it's own realmic niche. . Alternative options Burn to Awaken an Item to full sapience without the 9th heightening req'd. Gain Permanent Heightenings Gain a Divine Breath without being a Cognitive Shadow (WOB confirms such a person would not require weekly breaths). Spilt your Cognitive Identity into distinct Selves, "Awakening" them to full Hollywood split personalities. (Edgli is "inconsistent" so it could fit thematically). EDIT: Actual (if philosophically problematic) Resurrection, as in an advanced and fully sapient version of a Lifeless. It's also worth nothing that some godmetals like Raysium and Trellium have innate properties that dont involve Burning the metal, so Edglium could be anther such a one. Edited March 12 by Quantus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Radium said: Good afternoon y'all, I wanted to make a discussion about a certain God Metal that I have been thinking about and I would love to hear ideas and theories as to what it could potentially do. To clarify, I am talking about the God Metal of Endowment, I haven't really seen many discussions relating to Endowment, so I wanted to make one of my own and see what crazy abilities could spurn up. My theory, probably not going to happen, but burning Endowments God Metal could potentially make them an awakener with a tremendous amount of breaths. I feel like the God Metal of Endowment could work similarly to Lerasium. But that is my theory at the moment, what are yours? Everybody has the potential to become an Awakener in Cosmere - they just need Breaths to Awaken. Awakening isn't restricted by bloodline, or by bond, or by your spirit web - you just need a proper type of investiture and knowledge to do it. I think you're right that Edglium (unofficial name of Endowment's god metal) is similar to Lerasium and is burnable by anyone (I believe other god metals are burnable only by all Allomancers). It's hard to say what it would do. I'm guessing it would bestow you with a Divine Breath, without making you into Returned/Cognitive Shadow. That also means you don't have to spend Breaths to feed it every week, because you are alive, unlike Returned. It would be neat to have the 5th Heightening, possible ability to change appearances and a possibility to heal someone - but you still can’t Awaken with Divine Breath, you can’t give it to someone else. It would also be a great manifestation of Endowmnet's Intent - Edglium is a gift, the only way someone can get a Divine Breath without dying first. Spoiler Haverworthy Just had a question, when a Returned consumes a Breath, is it a property of their body that does so or the Divine Breath itself? It's been contentious in the community. If it's specifically just their body and a hemalurgist were to spike a Divine Breath as indicated was possible here*, would the hemalurgist not need to consume a weekly breath? *https://wob.coppermind.net/events/364/#e11389 Brandon Sanderson That's a very interesting question. The thing that requires the Returned to continue gaining investiture is their nature as cognitive shadows--they are dead, and in this case, need a power source to continue persisting in the physical realm. The Divine Breath is part of this. Imagine the Divine Breath as the thing that Infuses their soul, making it persist initially, and then and sticks it to the body. So if you stole it, but you yourself were not in need of being kept alive, I would say that you wouldn't need to be fed a new breath each week to maintain the Divine Breath. General Reddit 2020 (Oct. 4, 2020) Edited March 12 by alder24 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radium he/him Posted March 12 Author Report Share Posted March 12 8 minutes ago, alder24 said: Everybody IS an Awakener in Cosmere - they just need Breaths to Awaken. Awakening isn't restricted by bloodline, or by bond, or by your spirit web - you just need a proper type of investiture and knowledge to do it. I think you're right that Edglium (unofficial name of Endowment's god metal) is similar to Lerasium and is burnable by anyone (I believe other god metals are burnable only by all Allomancers). It's hard to say what it would do. I'm guessing it would bestow you with a Divine Breath, without making you into Returned/Cognitive Shadow. That also means you don't have to spend Breaths to feed it every week, because you are alive, unlike Returned. It would be neat to have the 5th Heightening, possible ability to change appearances and a possibility to heal someone - but you still can’t Awaken with Divine Breath, you can’t give it to someone else. It would also be a great manifestation of Endowmnet's Intent - Edglium is a gift, the only way someone can get a Divine Breath without dying first. Hide contents Haverworthy Just had a question, when a Returned consumes a Breath, is it a property of their body that does so or the Divine Breath itself? It's been contentious in the community. If it's specifically just their body and a hemalurgist were to spike a Divine Breath as indicated was possible here*, would the hemalurgist not need to consume a weekly breath? *https://wob.coppermind.net/events/364/#e11389 Brandon Sanderson That's a very interesting question. The thing that requires the Returned to continue gaining investiture is their nature as cognitive shadows--they are dead, and in this case, need a power source to continue persisting in the physical realm. The Divine Breath is part of this. Imagine the Divine Breath as the thing that Infuses their soul, making it persist initially, and then and sticks it to the body. So if you stole it, but you yourself were not in need of being kept alive, I would say that you wouldn't need to be fed a new breath each week to maintain the Divine Breath. General Reddit 2020 (Oct. 4, 2020) Ohhh I wasn't aware that everyone in the Cosmere had Breaths, learn something new everyday. 24 minutes ago, Quantus said: I dont think it would make you an awakener since that's what a Lerasium/Edglium alloy would do. Simply transforming into an equal amount of Breaths would make sense for Endowment as a concept but it seems a little narratively boring compared to the more unique realmic effects the other godmetals have. The most obvious effect for me would be a similar thing to Harmonium that supplements the Person and Intent part of the Power equation, making it a way to create Awakened Objects with Powers. But that's also already covered more or less by Ettmetal, narratively speaking, so I think he'll Edglium more of it's own realmic niche. . Alternative options Burn to Awaken an Item to full sapience without the 9th heightening req'd. Gain Permanent Heightenings Gain a Divine Breath without being a Cognitive Shadow (WOB confirms such a person would not require weekly breaths). Spilt your Cognitive Identity into distinct Selves, "Awakening" them to full Hollywood split personalities. (Edgli is "inconsistent" so it could fit thematically). EDIT: Actual (if philosophically problematic) Resurrection, as in an advanced and fully sapient version of a Lifeless. It's also worth nothing that some godmetals like Raysium and Trellium have innate properties that dont involve Burning the metal, so Edglium could be anther such a one. I never thought about an alloy of Lerasium and Edglium, I'll bear this in mind. Also, I love the idea of permanent heightenings, but that would probably be op in some regards. Someone could accidentally make another Nightblood 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Radium said: Ohhh I wasn't aware that everyone in the Cosmere had Breaths, learn something new everyday. No they don't. I should have written that everybody has the potential to become an Awakener. While everybody has some investiture in them (innate investiture, Breaths are innate investiture that can be shared, others have innate investiture that can't be shared, e.g. Preservation's fragment in Scadrians), only Nalthians have Breaths, but you don't need to be a Nalthian to buy some Breaths and Awaken with them. That's the point, you need to get some Breaths and you can Awaken - you don't need any Connection, any DNA, or any Nahel Bond, just investiture and you can be an Awakener, if you know what to do. I think only Hemalurgy works like that too. It's the knowledge that makes you an Awakener. You can even use other types of investiture and Awaken as well - Awakening in Cosmere is granting some level of sentience/sapience to non-living objects with a Command and investiture (any kind). You can Awaken with something like Stormlight (but we don't know how yet) and you shouldn't need to have any Breaths to do that. WoBs containing Cosmere spoilers: Spoiler Questioner So assuming you have mentioned that it is technically possible to be able to use one magic system on another planet from a different one... Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Is it possible to fuel that... Like, say could you fuel Awakening using Stormlight, or do you have to bring Breaths? Brandon Sanderson Yes, you could! Questioner Okay. Brandon Sanderson Excellent question. Now it's-- there are tricks to making it happen on each world. Some are easier than others, but yes you can. Questioner So could that allow a loophole to maybe... convert from one form of power to another? Or like from Stormlight to Breath? Brandon Sanderson Yes. In fact, that's part of why Vasher-- Questioner Vasher. I wondered that. Brandon Sanderson --is on Roshar, is because it's a lot easier to get Stormlight than Breath. Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016) Spoiler Ilkhan2016 Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across. AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar. /u/mistborn is that right? Brandon Sanderson A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive. To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture. Extesian This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another? Brandon Sanderson Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form. But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases... You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it. Celestial_Blu3 How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB? Brandon Sanderson That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019) Spoiler Argent Staying with Yumi, since we're asking the big questions here. I want to talk about the big machine, the father machine. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Argent There are some really interesting what feel like intentional parallels between it and Nightblood. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Argent There's smoke involved, there's eating of souls, there's a whole bunch of things. So what I do want to ask is: one, was the father machine Awakened using Breaths, using Nalthian Awakening? Or are you using Awakening as Lightweaving or Bondsmithing which is an overarching system in the Cosmere? Brandon Sanderson It's the second. This wouldn't exist in the pre-space-age as much; by space age there's a certain terminology that is going between... basically it's starting with the arcanists and moving to the general population. What certain themes in the Cosmere magics mean. And so when Hoid says "this is an Awakened machine" his audience understands what that means. It does not necessarily mean Breaths Awaken, but Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened. You should be noticing those parallels, but that's a term that in the Cosmere is becoming genericized to mean un-living object being given some measure of sentience and even sapience by application of Investiture, Commands, and these sorts of things. By this point they've all interacted with various Awakened machines of sorts in the future Cosmere. They know what this means. They've talked to an Awakened computer. [...] Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) Spoiler Questioner So we know that you can't just have someone-- If someone were to do something similar to Hoid, he can't just pop and go "Oh look, I can now do Allomancy or I can now do Surgebinding". What about Breath? If someone could somebody get Breath-- Maybe not *audio obscured* Could they still get the benefits of-- Brandon Sanderson Oh, good question... Yes you can, actually. Breath is-- Once it is given to you, it is being keyed to you. Your Identity. So that transfer makes it yours to use however you want. Questioner So you could Awaken? Brandon Sanderson You could Awaken. If you-- If you were to somehow make it there, you would be able to Awaken. It's the easiest of magic systems to get the magic from, and then to manipulate. Because it has keyed into it Identity. [...] Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) Edited March 12 by alder24 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radium he/him Posted March 12 Author Report Share Posted March 12 28 minutes ago, alder24 said: No they don't. I should have written that everybody has the potential to become an Awakener. While everybody has some investiture in them (innate investiture, Breaths are innate investiture that can be shared, others have innate investiture that can't be shared, e.g. Preservation's fragment in Scadrians), only Nalthians have Breaths, but you don't need to be a Nalthian to buy some Breaths and Awaken with them. That's the point, you need to get some Breaths and you can Awaken - you don't need any Connection, any DNA, or any Nahel Bond, just investiture and you can be an Awakener, if you know what to do. I think only Hemalurgy works like that too. It's the knowledge that makes you an Awakener. You can even use other types of investiture and Awaken as well - Awakening in Cosmere is granting some level of sentience/sapience to non-living objects with a Command and investiture (any kind). You can Awaken with something like Stormlight (but we don't know how yet) and you shouldn't need to have any Breaths to do that. WoBs containing Cosmere spoilers: Reveal hidden contents Questioner So assuming you have mentioned that it is technically possible to be able to use one magic system on another planet from a different one... Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Is it possible to fuel that... Like, say could you fuel Awakening using Stormlight, or do you have to bring Breaths? Brandon Sanderson Yes, you could! Questioner Okay. Brandon Sanderson Excellent question. Now it's-- there are tricks to making it happen on each world. Some are easier than others, but yes you can. Questioner So could that allow a loophole to maybe... convert from one form of power to another? Or like from Stormlight to Breath? Brandon Sanderson Yes. In fact, that's part of why Vasher-- Questioner Vasher. I wondered that. Brandon Sanderson --is on Roshar, is because it's a lot easier to get Stormlight than Breath. Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016) Reveal hidden contents Ilkhan2016 Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across. AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar. /u/mistborn is that right? Brandon Sanderson A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive. To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture. Extesian This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another? Brandon Sanderson Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form. But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases... You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it. Celestial_Blu3 How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB? Brandon Sanderson That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019) Reveal hidden contents Argent Staying with Yumi, since we're asking the big questions here. I want to talk about the big machine, the father machine. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Argent There are some really interesting what feel like intentional parallels between it and Nightblood. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Argent There's smoke involved, there's eating of souls, there's a whole bunch of things. So what I do want to ask is: one, was the father machine Awakened using Breaths, using Nalthian Awakening? Or are you using Awakening as Lightweaving or Bondsmithing which is an overarching system in the Cosmere? Brandon Sanderson It's the second. This wouldn't exist in the pre-space-age as much; by space age there's a certain terminology that is going between... basically it's starting with the arcanists and moving to the general population. What certain themes in the Cosmere magics mean. And so when Hoid says "this is an Awakened machine" his audience understands what that means. It does not necessarily mean Breaths Awaken, but Breaths are one of the main ways that people see things be Awakened. You should be noticing those parallels, but that's a term that in the Cosmere is becoming genericized to mean un-living object being given some measure of sentience and even sapience by application of Investiture, Commands, and these sorts of things. By this point they've all interacted with various Awakened machines of sorts in the future Cosmere. They know what this means. They've talked to an Awakened computer. [...] Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) Reveal hidden contents Questioner So we know that you can't just have someone-- If someone were to do something similar to Hoid, he can't just pop and go "Oh look, I can now do Allomancy or I can now do Surgebinding". What about Breath? If someone could somebody get Breath-- Maybe not *audio obscured* Could they still get the benefits of-- Brandon Sanderson Oh, good question... Yes you can, actually. Breath is-- Once it is given to you, it is being keyed to you. Your Identity. So that transfer makes it yours to use however you want. Questioner So you could Awaken? Brandon Sanderson You could Awaken. If you-- If you were to somehow make it there, you would be able to Awaken. It's the easiest of magic systems to get the magic from, and then to manipulate. Because it has keyed into it Identity. [...] Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) Oh that makes sense, thanks for clarifying 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, alder24 said: It's hard to say what it would do. I'm guessing it would bestow you with a Divine Breath, without making you into Returned/Cognitive Shadow. That also means you don't have to spend Breaths to feed it every week, because you are alive, unlike Returned. It would be neat to have the 5th Heightening, While I agree that permanent Heighteneings are the most likely result of Burning Edglium, I doubt it would be the same amount as a Divine Breath (a single "bead" is likely less "Sliver" than a full fifth-Heightening Divine Breath "Sliver"). Agelessness would be huge from a single bead. However, I could see second or third heightening as a permanent result from burning Edglium. As a metalmind, maybe it could store whatever quality Color is used to fuel? Hemalurgy - who knows. Maybe the "Giving Investiture" would just fail to be used for theft. . . Edit: My apologies @LewsTherinTelescope, I thought this was Cosmere Discussion. . . Edited March 12 by Treamayne So Sorry 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 I've retitled the post to make it more clear that this contains Warbreaker spoilers, since this is in the Mistborn-only forum. @Radium have you read everything? This'll be easier if I can move the thread to the full Cosmere spoiler forum. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radium he/him Posted March 12 Author Report Share Posted March 12 12 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: I've retitled the post to make it more clear that this contains Warbreaker spoilers, since this is in the Mistborn-only forum. @Radium have you read everything? This'll be easier if I can move the thread to the full Cosmere spoiler forum. I have read everything 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Quantus said: Simply transforming into an equal amount of Breaths would make sense for Endowment as a concept but it seems a little narratively boring compared to the more unique realmic effects the other godmetals have. I don't know that it's any less unique than lerasium. So far as I understand these things it mostly just Invests you with its power and that Investment as a side effect grants Allomancy, no? So the idea that burning edglium just Invests you with its power and as a side effect that Investiture functions the same way Breath does seems pretty comparable to me. 6 minutes ago, Treamayne said: While I agree that permanent Heighteneings are the most likely result of Burning Edglium, I doubt it would be the same amount as a Divine Breath (a single "bead" is likely less "Sliver" than a full fifth-Heightening Divine Breath "Sliver"). Agelessness would be huge from a single bead. However, I could see second or third heightening as a permanent result from burning Edglium. I have to imagine this would depend on the size of the bead, just like Allomantic strength from lerasium does. Fifth Heightening is three and a half times as many Breaths as the Third, so probably a bead three and a half times the size of a Third-granting bead would give the Fifth? But I think that's probably an order of magnitude too large for a "normal"-sized one. Third Heightening is 600 people's souls; I don't think the original Allomancers were that much more Invested than the average person, and I don't see a reason to think edglium would be that much denser than lerasium personally. 5 minutes ago, Radium said: I have read everything Alright, in that case I've moved it (and set the title back since there's no need for a special warning now). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 (edited) 42 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: I have to imagine this would depend on the size of the bead, just like Allomantic strength from lerasium does. Fifth Heightening is three and a half times as many Breaths as the Third, so probably a bead three and a half times the size of a Third-granting bead would give the Fifth? But I think that's probably an order of magnitude too large for a "normal"-sized one. Third Heightening is 600 people's souls; I don't think the original Allomancers were that much more Invested than the average person, and I don't see a reason to think edglium would be that much denser than lerasium personally. Well, that's why I said 2d or 3d - though maybe First Heightening might be a better correlation. Technically it's not 600 souls - it's 600 breaths where 1 Breath is a fragment of a soul: Spoiler Questioner In the last panel we talked a lot about people from different planets using magic systems on other planets, one of the things I've been thinking about, we've been thinking about, talking about Breath, and people being born with Breath, is that something specific to Nalthis or do, technically, other people on other planets have a Breath as well? Brandon Sanderson Good question and that is a Nalthian thing. Now, everyone in the cosmere to an extent has Investiture, the Nalthian Breath is part what everyone has and then a little extra, plus the ability to share it around. So a person who gives up their Breath on Nalthis is actually going below what a normal person has. But a normal person on Nalthis has more than somebody-- So if you were for instance to pick a world like Sixth of the Dusk, where there's not a Shard in residence, and you compared them to a Nalthian, Nalthian has an Investiture advantage over them. When they've given up their Breath, they have an Investiture disadvantage. Bystander So we're not Drabs? Brandon Sanderson So we're not Drabs. That's exactly it. We're not Drabs. JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016) So if the innate investiture scale is Drab < Non-Nalthian < person with 1 Breath - then a single breath on it's own is likely < 50% of the amount of innate investiture in a non-Nalthian. We also know that non-mistings (who presuambly have more innate investiture than a drab) are below the 40% threshold for Allomancy - HoA Ch 49 Annotations: Spoiler Buried within a lot of people, however, is enough of a touch of Preservation’s power to hit, say, 50% on the relative scale of Allomantic power. These people, when beaten and made to pass through something traumatic, awaken to their Allomantic abilities. There are a lot of people out there, however, with something more like 20% to 30%. These are the people the mists are Snapping—since the mists are, themselves, partially the power of Preservation, they can touch people and increase their Allomantic potential slightly and then bring it to the forefront. So, if a 10% Scadrian cannot be snapped by the mists, but a 30% can be snapped by mists and a 50% can be snapped by normal Era 1 methods (without requiring the extra investiture the mists grant when snapping) - then a singe Breath is unlikely to be more than 40% Innate investiture. So, I would guess a Misting's innate investiture to be around 10 Breaths(?) making Lerasium Mistborn about the same as first heighting(?). It's only bar napkin math, but does that pass the common sense test? Edit: Green (Argent), Red (Chaos), and Blue (LTT) all reading the same thread at the same time. . . summoned by BioChromatic breath? Edited March 12 by Treamayne SPAG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 12 Report Share Posted March 12 You both have a point - a Divine Breath with agelessness - Lerasium doesn't make you ageless after all. But those are just numbers for an example, in annotations. I think Snapping doesn't just awaken the Preservation's fragment, but through establishing Connection to Preservation it invests you more - it fills cracks in your soul. I fully expect Mistborn to be invested with hundreds of Breath equivalent units of investiture. Consider Kelsier in SH - he lasted for minutes before fading while many souls fade within seconds. This suggests he was hundreds of times more invested than a normal Scadrian (assuming lasting before fading grows proportionally with your investment level). Elend as Lerasium Mistborn was several times more powerful than Kelsier, I would argue he would be even more invested. I like to imagine a Misting would be invested with 1/16 the amount of investiture Mistborn is invested. Assuming a Kelsier Mistborn is equal to 200 Breaths, a Misting would be ~12 and a Lerasium Mistborn would be something like 600-1000 (a Lerasium Misting would be like 30-70). So a single Edglium bead can make you halfway to the full Divine Breath. But ultimately this is just a guessing game. We don't know how much they are invested, how they compare to others. I really wish Brandon would tell us in numbers how invested are Mistborn, Radiants and others, even a rough estimate would be helpful. 56 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: I don't know that it's any less unique than lerasium. So far as I understand these things it mostly just Invests you with its power and that Investment as a side effect grants Allomancy, no? So the idea that burning edglium just Invests you with its power and as a side effect that Investiture functions the same way Breath does seems pretty comparable to me. I think the investing part is only unique to Lerasium (for now) - Atium doesn't invest you, it just gives you kinetic investiture used to see the future and you need to burn Lerasium alloyed with Bavadinium to become a Sand Master, which actually invests you. At first Brandon said that Lersium making you into a Mistborn is a side effect and Mistborn burning it would do something else, but later he said that Mistborn burning it would become just a stronger Mistborn - which in my opinion is the same effect. So I'm not really sure that Allomancy is just a side effect and not the main effect of Lerasium. But Lerasium does grant some other powers, so maybe a specific intent is required to get them out instead of Allomancy? Spoiler Brandon Sanderson Chapter Thirty-Eight Preservation's Power [...] As a tidbit, that was a side effect of what that bead of metal did. It wasn't the main purpose of the bead, and if another Allomancer were to burn it, it would do something else. The Hero of Ages Annotations (Nov. 12, 2009) Spoiler 17th Shard If a Mistborn burns lerasium, as in, not just ingests it, what effect would it grant Allomantically? Brandon Sanderson That is a RAFO. It would do something, but the thing you've gotta remember is that, when ingesting lerasium for the first time and gaining the powers, your body is actually burning it. Think of lerasium as a metal anyone can burn. Does that make sense? By burning it you gain access to those powers. It rewrites your spiritual DNA, and there are ways to do really cool things with lerasium that I don't see how anyone would know. Were most Mistborn to just burn it, it would rewrite their genetic code to increase their power as an Allomancer. 17th Shard Interview (Oct. 3, 2010) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 3 hours ago, Treamayne said: Technically it's not 600 souls - it's 600 breaths where 1 Breath is a fragment of a soul: Lately Brandon's been suggesting it's the entire thing: Spoiler Luke Beartline Along the lines of BioChromatic Breath being akin to a person's soul, how would a Shardblade react to someone who does not have any Breath, would it cut them like an inanimate object? Brandon Sanderson No. Remember, one of the things with Breath is I consider Breath to be a part of someone's soul, but it is the extra part that the Cosmere has that non-Cosmere doesn't have. I don't know how far I want to lean into this, but there is definitely a part of me that thinks that Drabs, people who have given up their breath on Nalthis, are just like people from our world. That's what they are, that if we went to the Cosmere we would all be Drabs. Even on planets that aren't Nalthis, where you can't take part of that and give it away and things like that, people are invested. They are invested generally more than here. Why do I do this? There's a couple reasons. One, it's really convenient for some narrative reasons. A lot of books I'm writing are these kind of action-adventure stories, and can human beings actually take the punishment that is delivered, let's say to Adolin in the end of Oathbringer? *noncommital negative sounds* He doesn't come off well from that, but could a human being really take that? I go back and forth. Humans are capable of some pretty incredible feats, particularly with adrenaline driving them, but my kind of blanket answer is everyone in the Cosmere has got a bit more Investiture; everyone's got something like Breath. Nalthians have something kind of extra special because they can use it in different ways, but everybody's got something like that. It's leading to the fact that for instance, I highlighted this in the books, this part is canon: There are things about Rosharans that make it so that a lot of diseases have trouble getting a foothold. You do not have the bubonic plague on Roshar. You could maybe say this is because they are not living in close enough proximity to mammals for diseases to hop species as happens on our planet, which is a pretty valid point. Things that affect a horse or a cow (a lot of different diseases from cows come to us), things that affect a cow are much more likely to be able to affect a human than something that affects a chull being able to affect a human. Totally valid, but I also think that there is something more going on here. This allows me to do fantasy stories where... In Warbreaker we don't have to be worrying about the next outbreak of smallpox, which legitimately they probably would have to be worrying about. It means that, while this is kind of a trope that people, trope is the wrong term, but that people in the past did not have as bad as teeth as we assume that we do because they did not eat the levels of sugars and starches that we do. Investiture also in the Cosmere means that you're not going to... Dalinar probably would not have a full set of teeth, even without being punched in the face and stuff, if he were a human from Earth. But on Roshar he's got just a little bit extra vitality, a little bit extra something, just like everyone on the planet, that is making him a little tougher and making him a little more disease resistant and some of these things. It makes the stories more fun for me to tell and also gives us some suspension of disbelief on some of these things. You do not have to worry about smallpox outbreaks on most planets. You do have to worry about catching the curse of the Elantrian disease and being thrown into a prison city, but smallpox, not as big of a deal. Adam Yeah, but you don’t have to worry about that too much anymore. Brandon Sanderson No, but I'm saying you could have to worry about things like that. Magical diseases, totally on the board, but the big plague they're dealing with in Roshar is the common cold that got brought across by some of the members of Seventeenth Shard, and that's going to die out pretty quickly. They will get over it and their immune system is... The common cold has come over multiple times before for reasons like that, colds just from another planet. Roshar, they've got three Shards. Basically if you want something like this to happen you go to a planet that's not quite as highly Invested where they might have a few more diseases, you pick one up, you bring it, and it spreads a little bit but then it dies off. That sort of thing happens a lot in the Cosmere. You do not have to worry about during the space age that people are going to be bringing lots of diseases across planets. [Sunlit Man] Spoiler Aux also confirms a normal soul on a non-Invested world is one BEU: Quote "Yes," Contemplation said. "But this is useless. It barely charges the sunheart at all—a person could give their entire soul to it, and it would only keep a ship in the air for a short time." Because they only have one BEU of Investiture, Auxiliary mused. Yes, interesting. And three is what the highest-Invested worlds reach: Quote Even on highly Invested worlds, a person's soul isn’t more than three BEUs, Aux replied. You are right about this Investiture coming from somewhere. Keeping this city flying, though it’s much smaller than Union, must require sunhearts worth tens of thousands. 3 hours ago, Treamayne said: making Lerasium Mistborn about the same as first heighting(?). First Heightening is 50. 2 hours ago, alder24 said: I fully expect Mistborn to be invested with hundreds of Breath equivalent units of investiture To the contrary, Brandon doesn't consider them highly Invested at all, once even saying they have "almost none": Spoiler tskyeguye From Rysn's observations in the epilogue, it seems like she has a lot of the same aspects of a Fifth Heightening/Returned at the least. Is this because her Dawnshard is particularly connected to Endowment or because the effects of a certain level of Investment result in similar effects? Brandon Sanderson The latter. Skrimyt Interesting. So are actively Surgebinding Radiants or metal-burning Allomancers just not Invested enough to gain those passive effects, or do they not experience perfect pitch/color/etc. because their Investiture is just not as tightly bound to their Spiritweb as Endowment's Breaths or a Dawnshard would be? Brandon Sanderson Be aware that the two groups you mention don't generally hold much Investiture themselves, at least not in large quantities over time. More in Surgebinding. Almost none in Allomancy. But RAFO to specifics. Spoiler Questioner What would happen if a Mistborn ingested anti-lerasium or anti-atium, assuming they don't explode? Brandon Sanderson If you are not highly Invested yourself, and you get the anti[-Investiture], it's not gonna be a fun time. You won't explode, but it will kill you, almost assuredly. Not a fun time, but not an explosively not-a-fun-time, just a regular old not-a-fun-time. Maybe a little bit like pouring molten metal down your throat. Spoiler Blightsong Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn? Brandon Sanderson Yes, Investiture resists Investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right? Questioner Is a Mistborn Invested? Brandon Sanderson The Mistborn, while they're burning the metal. They are not specifically Invested when they are not burning. When the Investiture becomes active, then yes. Before, no. Blightsong So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was Invested, but because he had the potential to use Investiture? Brandon Sanderson Over time using the magic will Invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder. Questioner Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning? Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yeah. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways. How this relates to Kelsier lasting is... unclear. 2 hours ago, alder24 said: I think the investing part is only unique to Lerasium (for now) - Atium doesn't invest you It's definitely not universal as an effect, but it makes sense to me that Endowment's metal would gift you its power. 2 hours ago, alder24 said: So I'm not really sure that Allomancy is just a side effect and not the main effect of Lerasium. I don't mean "side effect" in that it primarily grants some other ability, I mean if you were to boil down the mechanic I think the primary thing would be "Invests/Connects you" and "become Allomancer" is simply a natural result of that. Last we heard the side effect thing is still true but just not very relevant anymore: Spoiler Questioner When will we find out about the other effect of burning lerasium? Brandon Sanderson Ummm, you-- I think it-- Ehhh, maybe eventually. I don't know. Not as relevant as it once was. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beartline Along the lines of BioChromatic Breath being akin to a person's soul, how would a Shardblade react to someone who does not have any Breath, would it cut them like an inanimate object? Brandon Sanderson No. Remember, one of the things with Breath is I consider Breath to be a part of someone's soul, but it is the extra part that the Cosmere has that non-Cosmere doesn't have. I don't know how far I want to lean into this, but there is definitely a part of me that thinks that Drabs, people who have given up their breath on Nalthis, are just like people from our world. That's what they are, that if we went to the Cosmere we would all be Drabs. Even on planets that aren't Nalthis, where you can't take part of that and give it away and things like that, people are invested. They are invested generally more than here. Why do I do this? There's a couple reasons. One, it's really convenient for some narrative reasons. A lot of books I'm writing are these kind of action-adventure stories, and can human beings actually take the punishment that is delivered, let's say to Adolin in the end of Oathbringer? *noncommital negative sounds* He doesn't come off well from that, but could a human being really take that? I go back and forth. Humans are capable of some pretty incredible feats, particularly with adrenaline driving them, but my kind of blanket answer is everyone in the Cosmere has got a bit more Investiture; everyone's got something like Breath. Nalthians have something kind of extra special because they can use it in different ways, but everybody's got something like that. It's leading to the fact that for instance, I highlighted this in the books, this part is canon: There are things about Rosharans that make it so that a lot of diseases have trouble getting a foothold. You do not have the bubonic plague on Roshar. You could maybe say this is because they are not living in close enough proximity to mammals for diseases to hop species as happens on our planet, which is a pretty valid point. Things that affect a horse or a cow (a lot of different diseases from cows come to us), things that affect a cow are much more likely to be able to affect a human than something that affects a chull being able to affect a human. Totally valid, but I also think that there is something more going on here. This allows me to do fantasy stories where... In Warbreaker we don't have to be worrying about the next outbreak of smallpox, which legitimately they probably would have to be worrying about. It means that, while this is kind of a trope that people, trope is the wrong term, but that people in the past did not have as bad as teeth as we assume that we do because they did not eat the levels of sugars and starches that we do. Investiture also in the Cosmere means that you're not going to... Dalinar probably would not have a full set of teeth, even without being punched in the face and stuff, if he were a human from Earth. But on Roshar he's got just a little bit extra vitality, a little bit extra something, just like everyone on the planet, that is making him a little tougher and making him a little more disease resistant and some of these things. It makes the stories more fun for me to tell and also gives us some suspension of disbelief on some of these things. You do not have to worry about smallpox outbreaks on most planets. You do have to worry about catching the curse of the Elantrian disease and being thrown into a prison city, but smallpox, not as big of a deal. Adam Yeah, but you don’t have to worry about that too much anymore. Brandon Sanderson No, but I'm saying you could have to worry about things like that. Magical diseases, totally on the board, but the big plague they're dealing with in Roshar is the common cold that got brought across by some of the members of Seventeenth Shard, and that's going to die out pretty quickly. They will get over it and their immune system is... The common cold has come over multiple times before for reasons like that, colds just from another planet. Roshar, they've got three Shards. Basically if you want something like this to happen you go to a planet that's not quite as highly Invested where they might have a few more diseases, you pick one up, you bring it, and it spreads a little bit but then it dies off. That sort of thing happens a lot in the Cosmere. You do not have to worry about during the space age that people are going to be bringing lots of diseases across planets.
tskyeguye From Rysn's observations in the epilogue, it seems like she has a lot of the same aspects of a Fifth Heightening/Returned at the least. Is this because her Dawnshard is particularly connected to Endowment or because the effects of a certain level of Investment result in similar effects? Brandon Sanderson The latter. Skrimyt Interesting. So are actively Surgebinding Radiants or metal-burning Allomancers just not Invested enough to gain those passive effects, or do they not experience perfect pitch/color/etc. because their Investiture is just not as tightly bound to their Spiritweb as Endowment's Breaths or a Dawnshard would be? Brandon Sanderson Be aware that the two groups you mention don't generally hold much Investiture themselves, at least not in large quantities over time. More in Surgebinding. Almost none in Allomancy. But RAFO to specifics.
Questioner What would happen if a Mistborn ingested anti-lerasium or anti-atium, assuming they don't explode? Brandon Sanderson If you are not highly Invested yourself, and you get the anti[-Investiture], it's not gonna be a fun time. You won't explode, but it will kill you, almost assuredly. Not a fun time, but not an explosively not-a-fun-time, just a regular old not-a-fun-time. Maybe a little bit like pouring molten metal down your throat.
Blightsong Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn? Brandon Sanderson Yes, Investiture resists Investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right? Questioner Is a Mistborn Invested? Brandon Sanderson The Mistborn, while they're burning the metal. They are not specifically Invested when they are not burning. When the Investiture becomes active, then yes. Before, no. Blightsong So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was Invested, but because he had the potential to use Investiture? Brandon Sanderson Over time using the magic will Invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder. Questioner Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning? Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yeah. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways.
Questioner When will we find out about the other effect of burning lerasium? Brandon Sanderson Ummm, you-- I think it-- Ehhh, maybe eventually. I don't know. Not as relevant as it once was.
Treamayne Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 Thanks for the updated WoB. 21 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: First Heightening is 50. I knew it was fifty, the "?" was indicative of making sure my "bar napkin" math checked out (if a 10% scadrian needed to be 50%+ for allomancy snapping = X*5, and if a misting were to be "about 10 breaths" invested - then a mistborn would be about 50 (first heightening). Which seems to jibe with the "Scadrian metalborn are on the lower side of innate investiture." I still don't see how your WoB changes my analysis though - since I was not comparing to we-the-readers (being or not being Drabs). It was only based on the WoB that "Drabs < normal Cosmere Denizens < people with 1 breath" (which can probably be extrapolated to Drabs < normal Cosmere Denizens < Nalthians with 1 breath < Non-Nalthians with 1 breath). TSM Spoilers: Spoiler Which is to say we also do not really know what 1 BEU really is. They say it is a "soul" but not that it is 1 Breath or that 1 Breath is a soul - especially since all breaths are not created equal - since that is why the Court uses children since their breath is "stronger" than an adult's: Annotations to Ch 3 Quote Lightsong Feeds on the Child Why a child? It doesn’t much matter, truthfully. An adult, or even someone elderly, could provide a Breath that would keep a god alive. But the Breaths of those who are aged aren’t as vigorous as those who are young. If Lightsong was given one of those to feed on, he’d survive for another week—but he wouldn’t feel as vibrant or alive as he does after feeding on the Child’s Breath. The people of Hallandren are faithful. Even if Lightsong himself doesn’t believe, they do; and they want to provide the best for him. Hence, they use children. Old enough to know what they are doing, yet young enough to give a powerful, vibrant Breath to their god. Pending more information, my personal "mental image" is if a normal cosmere person's innate investiture were $1, a drab would be $.75 and a Nalthian with 1 breath would be $1.25 - putting "1 breath" at about $0.50 - or 1/2 of the normal innate investiture for a "non-invested" Cosmerian. Good discussion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 11 minutes ago, Treamayne said: then a mistborn would be about 50 (first heightening). Ah, I misread what you said. Thought you put Mistborn at 10 and then said First Heightening. 20 minutes ago, Treamayne said: then a mistborn would be about 50 (first heightening). Which seems to jibe with the "Scadrian metalborn are on the lower side of innate investiture." Even going with the 40% number, 20 souls doesn't sound like "almost nothing" to me. 12 minutes ago, Treamayne said: I still don't see how your WoB changes my analysis though - since I was not comparing to we-the-readers (being or not being Drabs). At least as I understand the WoB, it sounds to me like he's saying "we have no Investiture and a Drab = us", which would then imply he's changed his mind and the Breath is the whole soul? [Sunlit Man] Spoiler 13 minutes ago, Treamayne said: Which is to say we also do not really know what 1 BEU really is. I mean... it's in the name, no? It's a Breath Equivalent Unit, a unit equivalent to a Breath. 15 minutes ago, Treamayne said: especially since all breaths are not created equal All feet are not created equal, but "a foot" is still roughly equal to an average foot (technically off by an inch and a half but close enough). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 (edited) 13 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: At least as I understand the WoB, it sounds to me like he's saying "we have no Investiture and a Drab = us", which would then imply he's changed his mind and the Breath is the whole soul? That is not what I got out of that WoB at all. A Drab cannot be an absense of Innate Investiture - they still have to have a Spiritweb so they have to have some level of Innate Investiture. It just happens that what they have is about what we-the-readers have (since most readers should, in theory, have a soul) I only thought he was saying (basically paraphrased) "I used to say 'we' were not Drabs, now, I think we would be roughly equivalent to Drabs, because they share our susceptibility to disease - but a normal Cosmerian is slightly tougher than that." TSM Spoilers: Hide contents 44 minutes ago, Treamayne said: Which is to say we also do not really know what 1 BEU really is 13 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: I mean... it's in the name, no? It's a Breath Equivalent Unit, a unit equivalent to a Breath. Right, but which version of breath. Or not any version, but an average, mean or median? Something else? 44 minutes ago, Treamayne said: especially since all breaths are not created equal 13 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: All feet are not created equal, but "a foot" is still roughly equal to an average foot (technically off by an inch and a half but close enough). I know what you mean, but "Meter" might be a better example - there many different "meters" until it was standardized in 2019 Quote Since 2019 the metre has been defined as the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299792458 of a second, where the second is defined by a hyperfine transition frequency of caesium.[2] So, if a "BEU" is a Cosmere Future Standarized measurement of investiture - what is that standard? We can guess it is "about 1 breath" but that still does not define the standard, only approximates it. Edited March 13 by Treamayne SPAG 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 27 minutes ago, Treamayne said: I only thought he was saying (basically paraphrased) "I used to say 'we' were not Drabs, now, I think we would be roughly equivalent to Drabs, because they share our susceptibility to disease - but a normal Cosmerian is slightly tougher than that." That's fair, I can see that interpretation as well. [Sunlit Man] Spoiler 12 minutes ago, Treamayne said: Right, but which version of breath. Are there many types of Breath? There's a little variance, but I don't see a reason to think it's that huge once you hit adulthood. 12 minutes ago, Treamayne said: I know what you mean, but "Meter" might be a better example - there many different "meters" until it was standardized in 2019 I chose the foot analogy intentionally, as they're a part of each person that naturally varies but got standardized using a rough average. Meters don't have the same factor. 18 minutes ago, Treamayne said: We can guess it is "about 1 breath" but that still does not define the standard, only approximates it. Sure, but my point is just that a person's soul is roughly a Breath, so First Heightening is roughly 50 people's souls, Third Heightening is roughly 600 people's souls, etc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofurion Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 Speaking of Edglidium, I have always thought that in the vicinity of the places where Tears of Edgli grow, tiny traces of that metal must be present, which the flowers end up absorbing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 12 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: To the contrary, Brandon doesn't consider them highly Invested at all, once even saying they have "almost none": I argue this is about kinetic/static investiture, not innate investiture. The question was "So are actively Surgebinding Radiants or metal-burning Allomancers just not Invested enough to gain those passive effects" - he was asking about kinetic investiture, not innate. Mistborn does not get that much investiture compared to Stormlight, but both Mistborn and Radiant are similarly invested with their innate investiture (as per the last WoB about Jasnah). 12 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: It's definitely not universal as an effect, but it makes sense to me that Endowment's metal would gift you its power. I agree. 12 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: I don't mean "side effect" in that it primarily grants some other ability, I mean if you were to boil down the mechanic I think the primary thing would be "Invests/Connects you" and "become Allomancer" is simply a natural result of that. Last we heard the side effect thing is still true but just not very relevant anymore: Yes, I agree. I don't remember this WoB. Learsium Connects you and rewrites your spirit web, which normally results in becoming an Allomancer. 11 hours ago, Treamayne said: That is not what I got out of that WoB at all. A Drab cannot be an absense of Innate Investiture - they still have to have a Spiritweb so they have to have some level of Innate Investiture. It just happens that what they have is about what we-the-readers have (since most readers should, in theory, have a soul) I disagree. Spirit web and innate investiture are not the same. Spirit web is made out of raw investiture, Connections and Identity, but innate investiture is something more added to the spirit web. Drabs have no innate investiture, but their spirit web is still there and it's worth something. TSM spoilers: Spoiler A spirit web is equal in investiture to 1 Breath, but it is not a Breath. A Nalthian soul is equal in investiture to 2 Breaths, because they have a Breath attached to it. 11 hours ago, Treamayne said: So, if a "BEU" is a Cosmere Future Standarized measurement of investiture - what is that standard? We can guess it is "about 1 breath" but that still does not define the standard, only approximates it. 11 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said: I chose the foot analogy intentionally, as they're a part of each person that naturally varies but got standardized using a rough average. Meters don't have the same factor. Technically foot is defined by SI units: "Since an international agreement in 1959, the foot is defined as equal to exactly 0.3048 meters." But BEU were probably standardized using an average, not some other unit of measuring investiture. So it's no longer the question of how much 1 BEU is, but how much a Breath is worth in BEU - it will vary, let's say from something like 0.9 to 1.1 BEU. But those differences in strength aren't noticeable at all when you have a lot of Breaths, so I guess that's where the unite came from. Warbreaker Ars Arcanum: Quote Note Three: The numbers given in the table above are only estimates, as very little is known about the upper Heightenings. Indeed, even for the lower levels, fewer or more Breaths may be required to achieve a given Heightening, depending on circumstances and the strength of the Breath. Spoiler Weltall (paraphrased) I asked if someone who had a lot of Breath would have it weaken collectively, in the same way that the single Breaths of children are more vibrant than others and move one slightly closer to a Heightening, then weaken as they grow older (and contribute slightly less towards a Heightening). Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) He said that it wouldn't be noticeable once you accumulate enough Breath and, for example, Hoid wouldn't find himself suddenly losing perfect pitch as a function of time. Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016) 3 hours ago, Dofurion said: Speaking of Edglidium, I have always thought that in the vicinity of the places where Tears of Edgli grow, tiny traces of that metal must be present, which the flowers end up absorbing. Close. Investiture is seeping into the ground from Endowment's perpendicularity, allowing flowers and the whole jungle to grow there. Spoiler Questioner Is there a similar relationship between Endowment and Hallandren's jungle as there is between Harmony and Elendel Basin ? Brandon Sanderson Yes and no. The flowers are being fed by something that's very similar to what you might find on other planets. So the ground is saturated with something that is having a similar effect as Elendel Basin. But it's not the same thing. Elendel Basin was just crafted really, really well, and then it was endowed with a little bit of extra oomph. Here [in Hallandren's jungle], we have this extra seeping into the ground from the pool, which is saturated around and causing the flowers and causing what's going on there. SpoCon 2013 (July 10, 2013) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofurion Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 19 minutes ago, alder24 said: Close. Investiture is seeping into the ground from Endowment's perpendicularity, allowing flowers and the whole jungle to grow there. Reveal hidden contents Questioner Is there a similar relationship between Endowment and Hallandren's jungle as there is between Harmony and Elendel Basin ? Brandon Sanderson Yes and no. The flowers are being fed by something that's very similar to what you might find on other planets. So the ground is saturated with something that is having a similar effect as Elendel Basin. But it's not the same thing. Elendel Basin was just crafted really, really well, and then it was endowed with a little bit of extra oomph. Here [in Hallandren's jungle], we have this extra seeping into the ground from the pool, which is saturated around and causing the flowers and causing what's going on there. SpoCon 2013 (July 10, 2013) Oh, so they are absorbing liquid investiture. Interesting. Something I forgot to mention, regarding how I would interact with the metal arts; I like the idea that when you try to burn it it leaves you with a divine breath [Allomancy], and that it can store color [Feruchemy]. Now, what is strange is to think of a use of Endowment metal in hemalurgy. Although this pattern is not always met, since there are occasions in which hemalurgy imitates the effect of feruchemy, it could be that an Edglidium nail steals color (assuming, of course, that this is its effect to begin with). Another possibility, although more far-fetched, is that given their intent, if they have to take something from you, it is something you don't want, for example corrupt investiture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 23 hours ago, Radium said: Good afternoon y'all, I wanted to make a discussion about a certain God Metal that I have been thinking about and I would love to hear ideas and theories as to what it could potentially do. To clarify, I am talking about the God Metal of Endowment, I haven't really seen many discussions relating to Endowment, so I wanted to make one of my own and see what crazy abilities could spurn up. My theory, probably not going to happen, but burning Endowments God Metal could potentially make them an awakener with a tremendous amount of breaths. I feel like the God Metal of Endowment could work similarly to Lerasium. But that is my theory at the moment, what are yours? This is a really interesting concept. I'm disinclined to think burning the solidified essence of Endowment would grant Breath though; burning Godmetal on screen thus far has had either extremely temporary effects (connection to the spiritual realm) or irreversible permanent effects (permanent expansions on one's soul gifting new powers). I'd opine that Endowment's godmetal would essentially be hyper compressed Breath. Burning it, therefore, would be equivalent to fueling one's allomancy with Breath, IE: channeling Breath through One's spiritweb in an extremely concentrated and accelerated way. In my mind, that would look a lot like someone trying to perform a commandless super awakening on their own soul. What would that do...? I would think it would most likely either 1) Grant one somewhere between the first and tenth heightening's worth of passive powers permanently without being able to awaken or transfer the power away via awakening (depending on how much they burned) or, 2) Connect one to Endowment the way Elantrians connect to Devotion. I have no clue what that would ultimately do. Maybe make shapeshifters (Endowment seems to like those), maybe allow one to speak directly to Endowment at all times, (they seem to really care about their invested subjects afterall and speak with all of them upon death), or maybe something super exotic (super connection to a God does weird things after all) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 9 minutes ago, hwiles said: Maybe make shapeshifters (Endowment seems to like those) That's the nature of Cognitive Shadows and thier Splinter of Endowment (Divine Breath) - that's their perception at work. Yumi spoilers WoB: Spoiler Cheyenne Sedai Given what happens at the end of the book, is Yumi immortal now? If not, does she age? Brandon Sanderson Her perception is going to influence this. She's going to need a small bit of power to persist, but she is so highly invested that it would take a very long time for that to be noticeable. Particularly because she's not even using that power. There's no out let for it. She's a Cognitive Shadow, much like the Heralds or Vasher, that is more self sustaining because of how highly she is invested. Imagine someone like Vasher with thousands of Breaths. You're just never going to notice. But her perception of herself will cause her to age. Probably not to age to the point that she dies though. Basically the answer is yes. You've got an immortal being running a noodle shop in a backwater corner of the Cosmere. Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 2 hours ago, alder24 said: That's the nature of Cognitive Shadows and thier Splinter of Endowment (Divine Breath) - that's their perception at work. Yumi spoilers WoB: Hide contents Cheyenne Sedai Given what happens at the end of the book, is Yumi immortal now? If not, does she age? Brandon Sanderson Her perception is going to influence this. She's going to need a small bit of power to persist, but she is so highly invested that it would take a very long time for that to be noticeable. Particularly because she's not even using that power. There's no out let for it. She's a Cognitive Shadow, much like the Heralds or Vasher, that is more self sustaining because of how highly she is invested. Imagine someone like Vasher with thousands of Breaths. You're just never going to notice. But her perception of herself will cause her to age. Probably not to age to the point that she dies though. Basically the answer is yes. You've got an immortal being running a noodle shop in a backwater corner of the Cosmere. Shardcast Interview (July 30, 2023) Nice. My preference would definitely be for the first option. If stormlight can be converted into Breath and condensed or frozen, then worldhopping allomancers might actually have a realistic shot at reaching the fifth without having to either be super rich or interplanetary black market traders. Some of them probably deserve that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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