Question and Answer

[Shardlet he/him]

Tinfoil = aluminum foil.  It is a colloquial term that is a holdover from when kitchen foil was made out of tin.

[Claincy he/him]

Fair enough. We normally shorten it to alfoil so don't use the term tinfoil for it. Hence why to me tinfoil means literal tinfoil =)

Edited October 18, 2013 by lord_Ffnord

[Asperity he/him]

I was wondering: Would it be possible to have a... page? stickied thread? Wiki page? I don't know; whichever is easier for say, an updated list of the last X months Q&A Cosmere reveals? I don't frequent this forum on a daily basis--I tend to get busy and not check back for months--so I seem to miss a lot of very important and informative spoilers. I was just curious if something like that could be possible instead of spending hours sifting through the Events board looking for recent threads. It's a selfish request but I'm sure many others could benefit as well.

[Shardlet he/him]

Hmmm.  I smell a new project coming on.  I will take it upon myself to create a thread in the Events forum which is strictly a compilation of Q&A's.  I will go back through the Events threads and extract all previous Q&A's first so it will likely take a couple of weeks at least before the thread itself is created.  Hmmm, think, think, think.  What would be the best way to handle citations?  Would we just make the assumption that the Q&A's from the new thread are valid?  Ooh, I got it.  I will do each event as its own post within the thread, that way the location and date for each Q&A will be noted along with the info.  This is kind of an idea I had when I first embarked on this journey, but I dismissed out of hand because of all the stuff on TWG, Theoryland, and Reddit.  Thank you for the reminder Kythis.

[Asperity he/him]

It's up to you although it seems like tedious work. However, I wouldn't know how to get something to auto-remove after so long. I'd say a compendium of the last six month's should be fine enough.

[thek9 he/him]

Why would you want it to auto remove? After going through all the work to put the data there in the first place, I would think you might as well leave it. That way people can start from the end of the thread and go back progressively as far as they want. Just want the latest updates? Just read the last page. But it seems like there is value in having a complete record, and it would help make Q&A sessions easier to find/cite.

[Shardlet he/him]

Totally agree thek9.

[Asperity he/him]

Why would you want it to auto remove? After going through all the work to put the data there in the first place, I would think you might as well leave it. That way people can start from the end of the thread and go back progressively as far as they want. Just want the latest updates? Just read the last page. But it seems like there is value in having a complete record, and it would help make Q&A sessions easier to find/cite.

Fair enough. I was just thinking of something like a running ticker or whatever to show the most recent 'reveals' but an overall consolidation of everything that's been given out in terms of information in one place is something that I've been desiring for a long time.

[Bean]

So Brandon has said that Ruin can fuel powers that have been granted via Hemalurgy. I'm pretty sure he was referring just to the metallic arts, but since we know that other powers could be taken could ruin fuel those? Probably not, but it bears thinking on. To what extent is one shard limited when it comes to tampering with another shards magic system.

 

Also Feruchemical gold can heal limbs that have been lost right? Why was Sazed still a eunuch? Was it because he viewed himself as one so it was part of his cognitive identity?

 

Just stuff I was thinking about and i didn;t want to start new threads.

[Kurkistan he/him]

So Brandon has said that Ruin can fuel powers that have been granted via Hemalurgy. I'm pretty sure he was referring just to the metallic arts, but since we know that other powers could be taken could ruin fuel those? Probably not, but it bears thinking on. To what extent is one shard limited when it comes to tampering with another shards magic system.

 

Actually, I don't think there's any need to limit ourselves to the metallic arts here. Hemalurgy is Ruin's "thing," after all.

 

Also Feruchemical gold can heal limbs that have been lost right? Why was Sazed still a eunuch? Was it because he viewed himself as one so it was part of his cognitive identity?

 

I would think so, yes.

[Levian]

Many questions and thought about the Shards, and the Cosmere. It probably goes without saying, but there will be spoilers for... nearly every book in the Cosmere, I assume.

 

So to start, I've only read the first 3 of the Mistborn, and Way of Kings. All shards were originally one, and were splintered somehow. I doubt its known, but how did the shards get where they are? It was originally one, in once place, I'm guessing the spiritual realm, or the Cognitive realm (Shadesmar?). So it seems like for people to have obtained the shards, they would have to be worldhoppers or at least able to travel to Shadesmar (if this is where it was located). Unless the shards were somehow scattered across the Cosmere onto various planets.

 

From some readings I've done, it seems many of the shard holders are dead - both of the ones from Elantris, both the ones from the Mistborn trilogy (although Sazed took up the shards), and one from Stormlight Archive. So far we know it IS possible for somebody to take up a shard after the original holder has died, seen in the Mistborn series when Sazed takes up Ruin and Preservation. We also know that Odium is behind the deaths of the shards from Elantris (don't know the names, won't bother learning it until I read the book probably). So, either Odium took both of them similar to how Sazed did, or they are unclaimed. Again, to get to them I'd assume you'd have to go through Shadesmar, if that is where they are. 

 

Since we now know that - A: shards can be taken by people after the original holder has died, and B: that shard holders can travel through the Cosmere, it leaves me wondering if Sazed will end up with all the shards at some point, of Odium doesn't already have two of them, plus maybe Honor's.  

 

So it is known that Hoid was present for the shattering of Adonalsium. I wonder if maybe he originally held it? Were there any worlds before it was shattered, or was everything already established just with no shard holders? Also, on Coppermind it says Hoid has the abilities of Awakening from Warbreaker, Feruchemy from Mistborn, in possession of a bead of Lerasium, so he has the possibility of being a full Mistborn, Lightweaving from Stormlight Archive. So is it possible for a person to obtain the abilities from world in the Cosmere? And would they all work anywhere? Obviously with Lightweaving a person would need to carry infused gems with them, they would need metals for Allomancy and Feruchemy and I don't know how the Awakening works yet. If Hoid is able to Lightweave, he must have other aspects of Surgebinding as well that we don't know of. Did he bond with a Spren, or did he obtain those powers mysteriously like Szeth?

 

It also says Hoid is a Worldhopper, capable of traveling between worlds by accessing Shadesmar. So far we know Shallan and Jasnah can visit Shadesmar, and it appears Jasnah has the ability to teleport as well, probably by using Shadesmar as well. So does this mean Shallan and Jasnah can Worldhop as well, visiting other worlds and possibly obtaining their abilities? If the unclaimed shards are located there, then it may be possible for one of them, or Hoid to obtain them. 

 

Anyways, that's all I can think of for now although I'm sure I missed something.

 

*EDIT*

 

Thought of something else. Is it possible for a person to bond with multiple Spren and obtain more than one set of Surgebinding abilities?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Levian

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Many questions and thought about the Shards, and the Cosmere. It probably goes without saying, but there will be spoilers for... nearly every book in the Cosmere, I assume.

 

So to start, I've only read the first 3 of the Mistborn, and Way of Kings. All shards were originally one, and were splintered somehow. I doubt its known, but how did the shards get where they are? It was originally one, in once place, I'm guessing the spiritual realm, or the Cognitive realm (Shadesmar?). So it seems like for people to have obtained the shards, they would have to be worldhoppers or at least able to travel to Shadesmar (if this is where it was located). Unless the shards were somehow scattered across the Cosmere onto various planets.

The Original Shardholders all lived on Yolen, which is where Adonalsium was Shattered. The exact circumstances are not known but the Shards were taken up by the holders and all, or most, left the planet. Shards can "will" themselves to another planet, although there are ramafications for doing so if they are invested in a planet. The Shards got to their planets because they decided to go there.

I don't think it would be correct to say that the Shards existed in the Spiritual or Cognitive Realms (Shadesmar is a Rosharan word that means "Cognitive Realm") as they can be taken up by people in either the Physical Realm (as Vin and Sazed did) or the Cognitive Realm (as Kelsier did).

 

From some readings I've done, it seems many of the shard holders are dead - both of the ones from Elantris, both the ones from the Mistborn trilogy (although Sazed took up the shards), and one from Stormlight Archive. So far we know it IS possible for somebody to take up a shard after the original holder has died, seen in the Mistborn series when Sazed takes up Ruin and Preservation. We also know that Odium is behind the deaths of the shards from Elantris (don't know the names, won't bother learning it until I read the book probably). So, either Odium took both of them similar to how Sazed did, or they are unclaimed. Again, to get to them I'd assume you'd have to go through Shadesmar, if that is where they are.

 

Since we now know that - A: shards can be taken by people after the original holder has died, and B: that shard holders can travel through the Cosmere, it leaves me wondering if Sazed will end up with all the shards at some point, of Odium doesn't already have two of them, plus maybe Honor's.

 

The Selish Shards are Devotion and Dominion and they are "unclaimed" and currently Splintered so it would be difficult for anyone to take them up. The holder of Odium, Rayse, believes that Odium is perfect for him and so he doesn't want to change that by taking another Shard.

As for Sazed, I don't think he will end up with the other Shards, he has a policy of non-interference and I don't think he would want to leave Scadrial.

 

So it is known that Hoid was present for the shattering of Adonalsium. I wonder if maybe he originally held it? Were there any worlds before it was shattered, or was everything already established just with no shard holders? Also, on Coppermind it says Hoid has the abilities of Awakening from Warbreaker, Feruchemy from Mistborn, in possession of a bead of Lerasium, so he has the possibility of being a full Mistborn, Lightweaving from Stormlight Archive. So is it possible for a person to obtain the abilities from world in the Cosmere? And would they all work anywhere? Obviously with Lightweaving a person would need to carry infused gems with them, they would need metals for Allomancy and Feruchemy and I don't know how the Awakening works yet. If Hoid is able to Lightweave, he must have other aspects of Surgebinding as well that we don't know of. Did he bond with a Spren, or did he obtain those powers mysteriously like Szeth?

The "Hoid was the Holder of Adonalsium theory" is one that has been discussed but it hasn't gotten far because there is just so much we don't know. The physical planets did exist pre-Shattering but only some of them had life. Yolen was the first planet to have human-life. The Shards went to their various shardworlds and invested in them, creating life where necessary. As a side effect of their investing the magic systems were created.

In regards to Hoid having Lightweaving, he has Yolish-Lightweaving not Rosharan-Lightweaving so he would not necessarily have other Surgebinding abilities and he doesn't get the ability from a spren bond. He does not need infused gems, presumably.

Theoretically you can get any magic to work anywhere it is just very difficult for some. The Metallic Arts are the easiest to use off-world but the Selish magics, due to their being region-locked, are very difficult.

 

It also says Hoid is a Worldhopper, capable of traveling between worlds by accessing Shadesmar. So far we know Shallan and Jasnah can visit Shadesmar, and it appears Jasnah has the ability to teleport as well, probably by using Shadesmar as well. So does this mean Shallan and Jasnah can Worldhop as well, visiting other worlds and possibly obtaining their abilities? If the unclaimed shards are located there, then it may be possible for one of them, or Hoid to obtain them. 

 

Anyways, that's all I can think of for now although I'm sure I missed something.

It is entirely possible that Shallan and Jasnah could Worldhop if they knew it was possible. As for them obtaining other abilities, I doubt it. The Stormlight Archive won't be dealing with other shardworlds besides probably Braize. They wouldn't just stumble across a shard either, because that is not really how shards work.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Thanks for answering that one, Weiry. I hadn't relished the thought of doing it myself.

 

@Levian

 

Thanks for your curiosity. As to your edited question, I don't believe we know, though I doubt it myself.

[Levian]

Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to answer another of my huge posts!

he Original Shardholders all lived on Yolen, which is where Adonalsium was Shattered. The exact circumstances are not known but the Shards were taken up by the holders and all, or most, left the planet. Shards can "will" themselves to another planet, although there are ramafications for doing so if they are invested in a planet. The Shards got to their planets because they decided to go there.

 

 

Thanks for that, I don't think I'd have ever found that out myself. 

 

 don't think it would be correct to say that the Shards existed in the Spiritual or Cognitive Realms (Shadesmar is a Rosharan word that means "Cognitive Realm") as they can be taken up by people in either the Physical Realm (as Vin and Sazed did) or the Cognitive Realm (as Kelsier did). 

 

 

The only reason I suggested that the shards occupy either the Spiritual or Cognitive realms are because of what I remember from Mistborn. As far as I remember, Sazed, Ruin and Preservation didn't/don't reside in the Physical realm. Their body does in the form of Atium and the Mists, but as for their... Awareness?... I think Sazed is in a different realm. I'd like to know if I'm wrong, or if anybody knows the truth of it. Also, what is this about Kelsier? I think I may have missed something..

 

The Selish Shards are Devotion and Dominion and they are "unclaimed" and currently Splintered so it would be difficult for anyone to take them up. The holder of Odium, Rayse, believes that Odium is perfect for him and so he doesn't want to change that by taking another Shard.

 

 

I'm not sure how far into this I want to get for fear of ruining the entire book for myself, but when you say they are Splintered, what does that mean exactly? Is it something similar to Lerasium, in the sense that it has been split into many pieces that can be obtained and used in some way?
 

As for Sazed, I don't think he will end up with the other Shards, he has a policy of non-interference and I don't think he would want to leave Scadrial.

 

 

I think I remember reading that, but its too bad. Odium is off killing shards of other planets it would seem, and its been implied that the entire Cosmere may be in trouble if he succeeds at what ever his dastardly plan is. You'd think with the entire universe in trouble he could bend his own rules a bit!
 

In regards to Hoid having Lightweaving, he has Yolish-Lightweaving not Rosharan-Lightweaving so he would not necessarily have other Surgebinding abilities and he doesn't get the ability from a spren bond. He does not need infused gems, presumably.

 

 

I didn't know there was a difference, let alone that there was another "version" of it! That seems like a strange thing for Sanderson to do, repeat one of his own magic systems.. We don't know anything about it yet do we? When I look up Lightweaving it seems it's in the Dragonsteel series which hasn't been published. 

 

That gives me another idea... The original shards were all on Yolen, and Hoid was around when Adonalsium was shattered. It's the shards that give the magic system to each world, yes? We don't yet know where Feruchemy comes from, other than being genetic. I wonder if it's possible that it comes from Yolen, or even another area we don't know about yet and Hoid brought it to Scadrial? I don't know how he could get the power of Awakening since I haven't read Warbreaker yet, so I'm not sure if it can be obtained by anyone, but it would make sense if he obtained that ability on Yolen as well. 
 

Theoretically you can get any magic to work anywhere it is just very difficult for some. The Metallic Arts are the easiest to use off-world but the Selish magics, due to their being region-locked, are very difficult.

 

 

I haven't read those books yet either, but that makes sense. If Stormlight couldn't be stored it'd be impossible to Surgebind anywhere else as well.
 

It is entirely possible that Shallan and Jasnah could Worldhop if they knew it was possible. As for them obtaining other abilities, I doubt it. The Stormlight Archive won't be dealing with other shardworlds besides probably Braize. They wouldn't just stumble across a shard either, because that is not really how shards work.

 

That is really interesting, it seems like Sanderson doesn't accidentally do anything and that it may come up in the future. It's been confirmed that there are other Worldhoppers as well (Demoux being one of them, although I don't remember anything indicating why he would in the Mistborn books, or how). I read in one of the Q&As that he was planning on there eventually being a book (or book series?) that brings the entire Cosmere to a conclusion, maybe we'll see them Worldhopping in that. Or, possibly even within the Stormlight Archive, but to the planets within the System. 

 

*EDIT*

 

Sort of answering my own question about the possibility of bonding with multiple Spren to obtain more than one set of Surgebinding abilities... reading another of the Q&As it seems like a person could obtain almost any power from any world through Hemalurgy... maybe... From the nature of the response it seems like he has plans to include it in future books

 

CHAOS

Can Hemalurgy be used to steal magic attributes from any Shardworld?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hemalurgy has larger ramifications then just Scadrial. That's about all he'd say

 

*Edit.. again*

 

Also, in which book is it revealed that the 17th shard group forms, and for what purpose? Also who all is in the group, just two people?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Levian

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to answer another of my huge posts!

Not a problem

 

The only reason I suggested that the shards occupy either the Spiritual or Cognitive realms are because of what I remember from Mistborn. As far as I remember, Sazed, Ruin and Preservation didn't/don't reside in the Physical realm. Their body does in the form of Atium and the Mists, but as for their... Awareness?... I think Sazed is in a different realm. I'd like to know if I'm wrong, or if anybody knows the truth of it. Also, what is this about Kelsier? I think I may have missed something.

This is a really tricky thing because everything "exists" in all three realms kinda sorta. But for all that we know about Shards there is still a lot that we don't understand. I myself do not know how to adequately explain this situation at this time.

As for Kelsier, after his death instead of moving on to the cosmere afterlife he decides to stick around in the Cognitive Realm. He also takes over the power of Preservation between Leras' death and Vin's ascension.

 

I'm not sure how far into this I want to get for fear of ruining the entire book for myself, but when you say they are Splintered, what does that mean exactly? Is it something similar to Lerasium, in the sense that it has been split into many pieces that can be obtained and used in some way?

Don't worry, none of this has anything to do with the plot of Elantris or The Emperor's Soul. Splintering is, in many ways, and analogous process to the Shattering of Adonalsium. It breaks up the Shard's power into smaller pieces, often killing the holder of the Shard in the process. But again, there is a lot we just don't know. I can say that it isn't really the same as lerasium (which shouldn't be capitalized by the way) and atium, those are physical aspects of a Shard whereas Splinters tend to be more Spiritual/Cognitive.

 

I think I remember reading that, but its too bad. Odium is off killing shards of other planets it would seem, and its been implied that the entire Cosmere may be in trouble if he succeeds at what ever his dastardly plan is. You'd think with the entire universe in trouble he could bend his own rules a bit!

If there was no other way I'm sure he would but I think he would prefer for the inhabitants of each shardworld to be able to fix their own problems. (That sounds kind of harsh, what I mean is that he wouldn't want to fix people's problems for them, he would rather help them fix them.)

 

I didn't know there was a difference, let alone that there was another "version" of it! That seems like a strange thing for Sanderson to do, repeat one of his own magic systems.. We don't know anything about it yet do we? When I look up Lightweaving it seems it's in the Dragonsteel series which hasn't been published.

I don't know that I would really call it "repeating one of his own magic systems". There are fundamental magical laws in the cosmere, and so similar magic systems work in essentially the same way. So all illusion magics work the same as "Lightweaving". There has been considerable discusion concerning the the various healing mechanisms and how they relate to this. That isn't to say that they are exactly the same. Rosharan-Lightweaving and Yolish-Lightweaving are powered in different ways R-LW, like all of Surgebinding, requires Stormlight whereas we don't know what Y-LW requires (if it requires anything). They also have different origins, R-LW was formed from the interactions between the investiture of Honor (and possibly Cultivation, we don't really know the specifics yet) and Roshar itself. Y-LW existed before the Shattering and so it was likely a product of Adonalsium.

 

That gives me another idea... The original shards were all on Yolen, and Hoid was around when Adonalsium was shattered. It's the shards that give the magic system to each world, yes? We don't yet know where Feruchemy comes from, other than being genetic. I wonder if it's possible that it comes from Yolen, or even another area we don't know about yet and Hoid brought it to Scadrial? I don't know how he could get the power of Awakening since I haven't read Warbreaker yet, so I'm not sure if it can be obtained by anyone, but it would make sense if he obtained that ability on Yolen as well.

Shards "giving" the magic systems to the shardworlds is really the wrong way to look at it. Magic systems are a product of the interactions of the investiture of the shards invested in a shardworld and the shardworld itself (so if Ruin and Preservation had gone to a different shardworld it, presumably, would not have resulted in the Metallic Arts). Feruchemy is a balance system, it is a mix between Ruin and Preservation (whereas allomancy is entirely of Preservation and hemalurgy entirely of Ruin). The thing amount Awakening though is that all it requires is having Breath, as long as you have enough of it you can Awaken stuff. Hoid would not have needed to "obtain that ability on Yolen", I don't even think that would be possible as only native Nalthians are able to able to detach their natural Breath (i.e. everybody has a section of their soul/spiritweb/spritual aspect that is a "Breath" but only Nalthians can detach it, in the way some lizards can detach their tails).

We don't really know how Hoid got his feruchemy, it is entirely possible he just asked either Preservation or Ruin to insert the necessary genes into his spiritweb (he did know them pre-Shattering after all). My personal theory however is that he is using the mechanical method of accessing feruchemy that is practiced on the Southern continent (before you ask, literally all we know is that they access the Metallic Arts in a mechanical/technological manner, but we don't really know what that means).

 

I haven't read those books yet either, but that makes sense. If Stormlight couldn't be stored it'd be impossible to Surgebind anywhere else as well.

Side note: Sel is the shardworld Elantris or The Emperor's Soul take place on.

 

That is really interesting, it seems like Sanderson doesn't accidentally do anything and that it may come up in the future. It's been confirmed that there are other Worldhoppers as well (Demoux being one of them, although I don't remember anything indicating why he would in the Mistborn books, or how). I read in one of the Q&As that he was planning on there eventually being a book (or book series?) that brings the entire Cosmere to a conclusion, maybe we'll see them Worldhopping in that. Or, possibly even within the Stormlight Archive, but to the planets within the System.

Keep in mind that The Way of Kings takes place roughly three hundred years after the first Mistborn Trilogy, that is plenty of time for his situation to change. There are other worldhoppers, Demoux's companion's in the Purelake interlude are two of them (one of them is from Elantris, the other an unpublished book) and there is a terriswoman somewhere in Warbreaker we don't know who she is though.

He calls them "conflux" books. If I remember correctly Dragonsteel might have some of it. Probably the third Mistborn trilogy since they'll have FTL at that point and be exploring the cosmere.

[Levian]

This is a really tricky thing because everything "exists" in all three realms kinda sorta. But for all that we know about Shards there is still a lot that we don't understand. I myself do not know how to adequately explain this situation at this time.

As for Kelsier, after his death instead of moving on to the cosmere afterlife he decides to stick around in the Cognitive Realm. He also takes over the power of Preservation between Leras' death and Vin's ascension.

 

Hmm, this leaves a lot of things open then. In Mistborn there was an access point to Preservation's power at least and we're not sure anything like that exists in Roshar if someone were to take up Honor's shard. 

 

I don't really remember the part about Kelsier.. I think I remember Vin hearing Kelsier's voice at one point while using the Mist. How was he able to do this, did it just sort of happen? I've seen a few threads around talking about Kelsier being a Sliver or some such but I really don't remember him obtaining Preservation's power at any point. Maybe I missed something, I'll probably need a re-read. He chose to stick around in essentially a spirit form? I didn't know people could do that, I wonder if it's a choice anybody can make, or because he held Preservation's power? 

 

 

Don't worry, none of this has anything to do with the plot of Elantris or The Emperor's Soul. Splintering is, in many ways, and analogous process to the Shattering of Adonalsium. It breaks up the Shard's power into smaller pieces, often killing the holder of the Shard in the process. But again, there is a lot we just don't know. I can say that it isn't really the same as lerasium (which shouldn't be capitalized by the way) and atium, those are physical aspects of a Shard whereas Splinters tend to be more Spiritual/Cognitive.

 

Well, if that's the case then I guess we don't have to worry about anybody obtaining those fragments. 

 

 

If there was no other way I'm sure he would but I think he would prefer for the inhabitants of each shardworld to be able to fix their own problems. (That sounds kind of harsh, what I mean is that he wouldn't want to fix people's problems for them, he would rather help them fix them.)

 

 Yea it makes perfect sense, and I'd agree in any other situation than one that threatens the entire Cosmere. If it was just that one world and surrounding planets then I'd let the people of that shardworld work on their own problems. But if it threatened Scadrial and Sazed has the power to prevent it, if it were me I'd totally try to prevent it. But, that's just me and I can accept it how it is!

 

 

I don't know that I would really call it "repeating one of his own magic systems". There are fundamental magical laws in the cosmere, and so similar magic systems work in essentially the same way. So all illusion magics work the same as "Lightweaving". There has been considerable discusion concerning the the various healing mechanisms and how they relate to this. That isn't to say that they are exactly the same. Rosharan-Lightweaving and Yolish-Lightweaving are powered in different ways R-LW, like all of Surgebinding, requires Stormlight whereas we don't know what Y-LW requires (if it requires anything). They also have different origins, R-LW was formed from the interactions between the investiture of Honor (and possibly Cultivation, we don't really know the specifics yet) and Roshar itself. Y-LW existed before the Shattering and so it was likely a product of Adonalsium.

 

 

Yea I was probably a little hasty saying that he repeated the magic system. But it does seem a little strange that he'd give the same name to two different powers. We're not sure if they actually are different powers yet, as we've only barely seen Lightweaving in Roshar and haven't seen it at all in Yolan, so maybe they do the same thing, maybe they do completely different things. I'm sure the requirement for using it will be different, but even just the fact that it shares the same name made me pause for a bit. Again, something I can totally ignore and most past, but it just really stands out from everything else for me.

 

Shards "giving" the magic systems to the shardworlds is really the wrong way to look at it. Magic systems are a product of the interactions of the investiture of the shards invested in a shardworld and the shardworld itself (so if Ruin and Preservation had gone to a different shardworld it, presumably, would not have resulted in the Metallic Arts). Feruchemy is a balance system, it is a mix between Ruin and Preservation (whereas allomancy is entirely of Preservation and hemalurgy entirely of Ruin). The thing amount Awakening though is that all it requires is having Breath, as long as you have enough of it you can Awaken stuff. Hoid would not have needed to "obtain that ability on Yolen", I don't even think that would be possible as only native Nalthians are able to able to detach their natural Breath (i.e. everybody has a section of their soul/spiritweb/spritual aspect that is a "Breath" but only Nalthians can detach it, in the way some lizards can detach their tails).

We don't really know how Hoid got his feruchemy, it is entirely possible he just asked either Preservation or Ruin to insert the necessary genes into his spiritweb (he did know them pre-Shattering after all). My personal theory however is that he is using the mechanical method of accessing feruchemy that is practiced on the Southern continent (before you ask, literally all we know is that they access the Metallic Arts in a mechanical/technological manner, but we don't really know what that means).

 

If what you say about the magic system being a result of the Shard's power interacting with the shardworld then it wouldn't be possible for Hoid to ask Preservation/Ruin for Feruchemy, as Feruchemy would have been created after interacting with Scadrial. 

 

So basically every question we have about how Hoid got his powers is dependent on whether or not the magic systems are naturally inherent in the Shards, or a reaction of the Shards and the shardworlds. If the Shards themselves created the magic system then Hoid could have obtained all of them on Yolan before they shattered, or just after, but before they moved to another world. If it really is an interaction with the Shards and the shardworld however, that would be a lot more work on on Hoid's part.

 

He would have to travel to each shardworld and somehow obtain each power. For Feruchemy we don't know how it can be granted, except with what you said about the mechanical/technological way (which I assume comes from The Allow of Law?), we don't know how he obtained Lightweaving, although since it's part of the magic system on his shardworld I assume he was either born into it or obtained it in a similar manner as some of the other obtainable abilities. If Awakening requires him to be a native of Nalthis then I have no idea how he was able to obtain this power, unless there's a mistake on Coppermind and he doesn't actually have this ability? 

 

If he had to obtain all these powers by traveling to all these worlds and investing a serious amount of time and effort in each one, that implies some serious goal he has in mind. Master ruler of the Cosmere, holding every power? Or friendly wizened interstellar traveler, helping those in need with wisdom and the power of many shardworlds? I can see why so many people are so intrigued by him.

 

Keep in mind that The Way of Kings takes place roughly three hundred years after the first Mistborn Trilogy, that is plenty of time for his situation to change. There are other worldhoppers, Demoux's companion's in the Purelake interlude are two of them (one of them is from Elantris, the other an unpublished book) and there is a terriswoman somewhere in Warbreaker we don't know who she is though.

 

I didn't know any official timeline for this. If this is the case, how is Demoux still alive?   Does he have more powers than we (or perhaps just I) know of? Also if Way of Kings is three hundred years after the Mistborn Trilogy and so is The Alloy of Law, that's some pretty crazy technological differences (even though I haven't read Allow of Law yet!   )

 

He calls them "conflux" books. If I remember correctly Dragonsteel might have some of it. Probably the third Mistborn trilogy since they'll have FTL at that point and be exploring the cosmere.

Eh, FTL?   I'm not terribly familiar with Sci Fi but I assume that means they'll be building space ships? Crazy. I'm normally not a fan of Sci Fi stuff at all, but I think I'd make an exception for Sanderson. Actually I wasn't planning on reading Allow of Law because I had heard it has a modern setting, which I'm also not terribly fond of in Fantasy books (although I have read a few great ones with a modern setting), but I've decided that I'll read it anyways, because I've loved everything I've read by Sanderson so far!

 

Sorry for all the massive posts. I tend to get into huge conversations on forums, especially when I'm brand new to a series like this. 

[Kurkistan he/him]

I apologize for not responding earlier, but I tend to feel a compulsion to link to citations whenever I answer such questions, and didn't have the time.
 

Hmm, this leaves a lot of things open then. In Mistborn there was an access point to Preservation's power at least and we're not sure anything like that exists in Roshar if someone were to take up Honor's shard. 
 
I don't really remember the part about Kelsier.. I think I remember Vin hearing Kelsier's voice at one point while using the Mist. How was he able to do this, did it just sort of happen? I've seen a few threads around talking about Kelsier being a Sliver or some such but I really don't remember him obtaining Preservation's power at any point. Maybe I missed something, I'll probably need a re-read. He chose to stick around in essentially a spirit form? I didn't know people could do that, I wonder if it's a choice anybody can make, or because he held Preservation's power?

 
 Kelsier holding Preservation for a bit is mostly mentioned in annotations and interviews and stuff, though it's hinted at in the last book.
 
Here's some links:
http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=428#10
http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=680#26
http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=944#7
 

Yea I was probably a little hasty saying that he repeated the magic system. But it does seem a little strange that he'd give the same name to two different powers. We're not sure if they actually are different powers yet, as we've only barely seen Lightweaving in Roshar and haven't seen it at all in Yolan, so maybe they do the same thing, maybe they do completely different things. I'm sure the requirement for using it will be different, but even just the fact that it shares the same name made me pause for a bit. Again, something I can totally ignore and most past, but it just really stands out from everything else for me.

 
They do do essentially the same thing, "because with the unifying theory of magic there's a certain number of things that magic can do, and there's a lot of different ones, but when they get similar they tend to work in the same way."
 
Same with how a lot of healing in the Cosmere is going to end up looking like Feruchemical Gold. (*TES Spoilers*)
 

If what you say about the magic system being a result of the Shard's power interacting with the shardworld then it wouldn't be possible for Hoid to ask Preservation/Ruin for Feruchemy, as Feruchemy would have been created after interacting with Scadrial. 
 
So basically every question we have about how Hoid got his powers is dependent on whether or not the magic systems are naturally inherent in the Shards, or a reaction of the Shards and the shardworlds. If the Shards themselves created the magic system then Hoid could have obtained all of them on Yolan before they shattered, or just after, but before they moved to another world. If it really is an interaction with the Shards and the shardworld however, that would be a lot more work on on Hoid's part.
 
He would have to travel to each shardworld and somehow obtain each power. For Feruchemy we don't know how it can be granted, except with what you said about the mechanical/technological way (which I assume comes from The Allow of Law?), we don't know how he obtained Lightweaving, although since it's part of the magic system on his shardworld I assume he was either born into it or obtained it in a similar manner as some of the other obtainable abilities. If Awakening requires him to be a native of Nalthis then I have no idea how he was able to obtain this power, unless there's a mistake on Coppermind and he doesn't actually have this ability? 
 
If he had to obtain all these powers by traveling to all these worlds and investing a serious amount of time and effort in each one, that implies some serious goal he has in mind. Master ruler of the Cosmere, holding every power? Or friendly wizened interstellar traveler, helping those in need with wisdom and the power of many shardworlds? I can see why so many people are so intrigued by him.

 
As for Hoid naturally having all of the powers: I don't think so. It would be a bit less than "fair" if that were the case, and Brandon has implied that these magics didn't exist pre-shattering.
 

I didn't know any official timeline for this. If this is the case, how is Demoux still alive?   Does he have more powers than we (or perhaps just I) know of? Also if Way of Kings is three hundred years after the Mistborn Trilogy and so is The Alloy of Law, that's some pretty crazy technological differences (even though I haven't read Allow of Law yet!   )

[...]
 
Eh, FTL?   I'm not terribly familiar with Sci Fi but I assume that means they'll be building space ships? Crazy. I'm normally not a fan of Sci Fi stuff at all, but I think I'd make an exception for Sanderson. Actually I wasn't planning on reading Allow of Law because I had heard it has a modern setting, which I'm also not terribly fond of in Fantasy books (although I have read a few great ones with a modern setting), but I've decided that I'll read it anyways, because I've loved everything I've read by Sanderson so far!

 

So far as technology goes, here's the breakdown: Alloy of Law has technology roughly equivalent to the early 1900's, while the second Mistborn trilogy will be late 1980's and the third will be straight-up scifi.

 

Sorry for all the massive posts. I tend to get into huge conversations on forums, especially when I'm brand new to a series like this.

 

No worries, everyone goes through a bit of a "teething phase" when they first start out. We really need to work on our new-Sharder-initiation aids...

[Levian]

I apologize for not responding earlier, but I tend to feel a compulsion to link to citations whenever I answer such questions, and didn't have the time.

I know the feeling, especially when its in response to large posts like this one    

 

 Kelsier holding Preservation for a bit is mostly mentioned in annotations and interviews and stuff, though it's hinted at in the last book.

Oh awesome thanks for the links. I'll have a read and see what I can see. Without having read them yet I'd have to assume he held Preservation's power in the form of the Mist, because he had never found TLR's secret room or found the Well, as far as I know. Don't bother responding to this part unless you really want to, I'll go ahead and read up on it!

They do do essentially the same thing, "because with the unifying theory of magic there's a certain number of things that magic can do, and there's a lot of different ones, but when they get similar they tend to work in the same way." Same with how a lot of healing in the Cosmere is going to end up looking like Feruchemical Gold. (*TES Spoilers*)

That makes a fair bit of sense actually, the powers of a Windrunner seemed very similar to some of those of Allomancy, except it works on anything and now just metal. Both of the explanations I've heard satisfy me... However I'm still very slightly disappointed one of the Lightweaving isn't given a different name. I'll live though 

As for Hoid naturally having all of the powers: I don't think so. It would be a bit less than "fair" if that were the case, and Brandon has implied that these magics didn't exist pre-shattering.

So it seems that Hoid is traveling between shardworlds collecting different powers. That makes me wonder what his goal is... I think I'll be joining some Hoid speculation threads soon!

So far as technology goes, here's the breakdown: Alloy of Law has technology roughly equivalent to the early 1900's, while the second Mistborn trilogy will be late 1980's and the third will be straight-up scifi.

Sounds interesting. While that's not normally my thing I have a feeling Sanderson will do it in a way that pulls me in, I'm almost positive I'll enjoy it regardless of the setting.

 

No worries, everyone goes through a bit of a "teething phase" when they first start out. We really need to work on our new-Sharder-initiation aids...

I know right? Each book you read only leaves you with more questions! The Cosmere 101 thread has helped a lot, although it could use some links to all the things that seem to be common knowledge around here that aren't included in released books, like a lot of the Q&A's. I'd bet there's a thread linking them all, and actually I think someone provided me with a link to it but I haven't explored it yet.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Levian

[Kurkistan he/him]

*Cough cough*
 

That makes a fair bit of sense actually, the powers of a Windrunner seemed very similar to some of those of Allomancy, except it works on anything and now just metal. Both of the explanations I've heard satisfy me... However I'm still very slightly disappointed one of the Lightweaving isn't given a different name. I'll live though 

 

Actually, I don't think the Lashings are very similar to Allomancy, but that's a discussion for another day/thread.

 

I know right? Each book you read only leaves you with more questions! The Cosmere 101 thread has helped a lot, although it could use some links to all the things that seem to be common knowledge around here that aren't included in released books, like a lot of the Q&A's. I'd bet there's a thread linking them all, and actually I think someone provided me with a link to it but I haven't explored it yet.

 

There is also an FAQ thread, which also has links to the Theoryland interview database and our wiki. We haven't gotten around to stickying it yet, so it's a bit hard to find if you don't know it exists.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

So Kurkistan already responded to a lot of this so I won't answer those sections.
 

I don't really remember the part about Kelsier.. I think I remember Vin hearing Kelsier's voice at one point while using the Mist. How was he able to do this, did it just sort of happen? I've seen a few threads around talking about Kelsier being a Sliver or some such but I really don't remember him obtaining Preservation's power at any point. Maybe I missed something, I'll probably need a re-read. He chose to stick around in essentially a spirit form? I didn't know people could do that, I wonder if it's a choice anybody can make, or because he held Preservation's power?

Oh awesome thanks for the links. I'll have a read and see what I can see. Without having read them yet I'd have to assume he held Preservation's power in the form of the Mist, because he had never found TLR's secret room or found the Well, as far as I know. Don't bother responding to this part unless you really want to, I'll go ahead and read up on it!

 
As Kurk said, Kelsier holding Preservation is only barely hinted at in the books. As for how he is able to stick around, we don't really know. I can say it isn't a result of him holding Preservation because he had already been dead for like two years by that point. The theory I ascribe to is that because he is essentially worshiped as a god by the Church of the Survivor has a strong tie to the Physical Realm helping him to stick around. We also don't know exactly how he took up the Shard since he was in the Cognitive Realm at the time (there is a lot about how things work in the Cognitive Realm we just don't know).
 

Yea it makes perfect sense, and I'd agree in any other situation than one that threatens the entire Cosmere. If it was just that one world and surrounding planets then I'd let the people of that shardworld work on their own problems. But if it threatened Scadrial and Sazed has the power to prevent it, if it were me I'd totally try to prevent it. But, that's just me and I can accept it how it is!

If Scadrial was threatened, I don't doubt that he would take action.
 

Yea I was probably a little hasty saying that he repeated the magic system. But it does seem a little strange that he'd give the same name to two different powers. We're not sure if they actually are different powers yet, as we've only barely seen Lightweaving in Roshar and haven't seen it at all in Yolan, so maybe they do the same thing, maybe they do completely different things. I'm sure the requirement for using it will be different, but even just the fact that it shares the same name made me pause for a bit. Again, something I can totally ignore and most past, but it just really stands out from everything else for me.

That makes a fair bit of sense actually, the powers of a Windrunner seemed very similar to some of those of Allomancy, except it works on anything and now just metal. Both of the explanations I've heard satisfy me... However I'm still very slightly disappointed one of the Lightweaving isn't given a different name. I'll live though

Well sharing the name makes perfect sense to me. Why wouldn't Honor/Cultivation call R-LW Lightweaving if it is essentially the same as what they are familiar with from Yolen. They would call it what it was, which is Lightweaving.

I'm with Kurkistan on this though, what similarities do you see?
 

If what you say about the magic system being a result of the Shard's power interacting with the shardworld then it wouldn't be possible for Hoid to ask Preservation/Ruin for Feruchemy, as Feruchemy would have been created after interacting with Scadrial.

So basically every question we have about how Hoid got his powers is dependent on whether or not the magic systems are naturally inherent in the Shards, or a reaction of the Shards and the shardworlds. If the Shards themselves created the magic system then Hoid could have obtained all of them on Yolan before they shattered, or just after, but before they moved to another world. If it really is an interaction with the Shards and the shardworld however, that would be a lot more work on on Hoid's part.

He would have to travel to each shardworld and somehow obtain each power. For Feruchemy we don't know how it can be granted, except with what you said about the mechanical/technological way (which I assume comes from The Allow of Law?), we don't know how he obtained Lightweaving, although since it's part of the magic system on his shardworld I assume he was either born into it or obtained it in a similar manner as some of the other obtainable abilities. If Awakening requires him to be a native of Nalthis then I have no idea how he was able to obtain this power, unless there's a mistake on Coppermind and he doesn't actually have this ability?

That is how it works. And technically yes he could ask Preservation or Ruin to insert the genes for feruchemy, it is within their powers. Sazed does something similar when he turns Spook into a mistborn. As for the mechanical Metallic Arts, we know that from an interview, not Alloy of Law.

I phrased this poorly, Awakening is not restricted to only native Nlathians, anyone can do it. Only Nalthians can detach their own Breath. If non-natives are given Breath they can Awaken
 

If he had to obtain all these powers by traveling to all these worlds and investing a serious amount of time and effort in each one, that implies some serious goal he has in mind. Master ruler of the Cosmere, holding every power? Or friendly wizened interstellar traveler, helping those in need with wisdom and the power of many shardworlds? I can see why so many people are so intrigued by him.

So it seems that Hoid is traveling between shardworlds collecting different powers. That makes me wonder what his goal is... I think I'll be joining some Hoid speculation threads soon!

Hoid's endgame is a mystery to us all...
 

I didn't know any official timeline for this. If this is the case, how is Demoux still alive?   Does he have more powers than we (or perhaps just I) know of? Also if Way of Kings is three hundred years after the Mistborn Trilogy and so is The Alloy of Law, that's some pretty crazy technological differences (even though I haven't read Allow of Law yet!   )

Here is a rough chronology. We don't know how Demoux is still alive, it is possible Sazed made him into an atium compounder though. As for the tech differences, different cultures develop at different rates. Scadrial also has had help in the form of the Words of Founding and such (the books and such that Sazed gave at the end of the trilogy).
 

Eh, FTL?   I'm not terribly familiar with Sci Fi but I assume that means they'll be building space ships? Crazy. I'm normally not a fan of Sci Fi stuff at all, but I think I'd make an exception for Sanderson. Actually I wasn't planning on reading Allow of Law because I had heard it has a modern setting, which I'm also not terribly fond of in Fantasy books (although I have read a few great ones with a modern setting), but I've decided that I'll read it anyways, because I've loved everything I've read by Sanderson so far!

Yes that means space ships, Brandon has said that he designed the Metallic Arts in such a way to have FTL built into the system. I really would reccomend reading Alloy, it isn't my favorite cosmere book but it is still pretty good. It has a bit of a Western feel and the interaction between the modern setting (such as guns) and the magic systems is really interesting.

[Windrunner he/him]

I phrased this poorly, Awakening is not restricted to only native Nlathians, anyone can do it. Only Nalthians can detach their own Breath. If non-natives are given Breath they can Awaken

I'm not so sure about this one, actually. I think that there are implications otherwise.

 

 

 

ZAS

After several more signings, I asked my other question. "Do people in the Comsere, besides Nalthis, have Breaths?"

BRANDON SANDERSON

"No." He then signed a person's books, then said "To elaborate a little more, that's not to say they don't have a life force, because they do. But if someone not from Nalthis were to suddenly gain the ability to become an Awakener, they could not use what they have to Awaken something. That's not to say that they can't receive breaths though."

Source

I think that this implies that people from Nalthis can get Breath, but that doesn't mean they can do anything with it without some Hemalurgy.

[Shardlet he/him]

However I'm still very slightly disappointed one of the Lightweaving isn't given a different name. I'll live though 

 

 

Well sharing the name makes perfect sense to me. Why wouldn't Honor/Cultivation call R-LW Lightweaving if it is essentially the same as what they are familiar with from Yolen. They would call it what it was, which is Lightweaving.

 

It should also be remembered that we do not yet have a published work that is set on Yolen.  thus, the lightweaving ability on Yolen may not ultimately be called lightweaving.  Much the same way that the shattered plains were originally on Yolen but are now on Roshar.

[Oudeis he/him]

For that matter, do we have actual canon that it's called Lightweaving on Roshar? I've seen it on that chart, but the chart came with a heavy "this is subject to change until expressed in-book" disclaimer.

[Windrunner he/him]

Yep. It says so in the Words of Radiance description.

[Meg]

I'm not so sure about this one, actually. I think that there are implications otherwise.

I think that this implies that people from Nalthis can get Breath, but that doesn't mean they can do anything with it without some Hemalurgy.

I'm sorry to (partially) disagree. I wouldn't emphasize what you did.

 

ZAS

After several more signings, I asked my other question. "Do people in the Comsere, besides Nalthis, have Breaths?"

BRANDON SANDERSON

"No." He then signed a person's books, then said "To elaborate a little more, that's not to say they don't have a life force, because they do. But if someone not from Nalthis were to suddenly gain the ability to become an Awakener, they could not use what they have to Awaken something. That's not to say that they can't receive breaths though."

The part in bold tells us that a non-Nalthian can not use their (innate) life force to Awaken. The italicized part tells us they can receive Breaths. Non-Nalthians don't have the Innate Investiture like Nalthians but I believe they cannot Awaken because they don't know anything about it. I'm quite sure that a non-Nalthian who gained the ability to Awaken and the knowledge to do so and and enough Breaths can Awaken though it might be harder to do so than if they were Nalthians (because the "link" to Endowment would be very very weak).

At least I didn't find anything that totally says that non-Nalthians can't Awaken in any circumstances.

I'd like to add that every magic in the Cosmere is of the Power of Creation itself (although it's shattered).