Dawnshards in Dragonsteel

[therunner he/him]

So, we know that in many ways Dragonsteel is story of people who unknowingly became Dawnshards (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/443/#e14300).

I think we can see two or three.
 

• Hoid
  • He holds Dawnshard that based on later description, effectively seeks to bring Physical realm representation of the object as close as possible to spiritual Ideal.
  • This then translates to growth and healing powers.
  • His Dawnshard is then something along the lines of Perfect / Heal, or perhaps simply Life.
  • This would explain why his power is such Anathema to the 'Void' god.
  • As a result of holding it for so long, he can no longer harm others, as it would take them further away from their Spiritual Ideal I think.
• Jerick
  • He seems to hold Dawnshard that is direct opposite to the one Hoid has, one with powers of Destruction.
  • He can use it to effectively soulcast an arrow, or to destroy items with lighting (or cut his father in half).
  • I would suspect that his Dawnshard then is about taking things away from their Spiritual Ideal, hence Destroy/Break/Death, dawnshard.

 

I also think Ryalla might have Dawnshard. Admittadly, her powers are different (she does not see Axi, but Light instead), however her power does seem be quite substantial. If so, this might be the precursor to the one Dawnshard that is different from the rest. What concept it represents I have no idea, perhaps Seem or Connect, dealing not with items but with forces that Connect them together?

 

Edited April 1 by therunner

[jaddeth below she/her]

I think the names written in Dragonsteel belong to the dawnshards, but it is not clear if the dawnshards are still the same anymore

[LewsTherinTelescope]

13 hours ago, therunner said:

I also think Ryalla might have Dawnshard.

Supposedly there are only two, but then in the introduction Brandon instead says one so he might just be forgetting the number lol. Frost does lump her abilities in with those of Topaz and Jerick (at least from what I've read, haven't had time to go through it fully yet but did look at the search results for a bunch of terms like "microkinesis"), even though they work differently, so her also being one would make sense.

13 hours ago, therunner said:

What concept it represents I have no idea, perhaps Seem or Connect, dealing not with items but with forces that Connect them together?

I don't think there's a distinction like that, Jerick is able to manipulate the electromagnetic force just as easily as axi when he makes the lightning bolt.

Interestingly Ryalla is able to use "sonic microkinesis" too, so her ability isn't just photons, but then all the microkinetic abilities seem kind of messy in what they encompass compared to Brandon's later more structured systems. Something to do with perceiving more generally, maybe?

8 hours ago, jaddeth below said:

I think the names written in Dragonsteel belong to the dawnshards, but it is not clear if the dawnshards are still the same anymore

How would that work with the idea that the cast "unwittingly become" Dawnshards, especially since Hoid's already got his immortality and inability to harm? It seems more likely to me that the topaz contains one (we know the title "bearer of the first gem" is related) and the "source of power" Doruse was watching over that Jerick somehow got his power from is another, personally.

[therunner he/him]

6 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Supposedly there are only two, but then in the introduction Brandon instead says one so he might just be forgetting the number lol. Frost does lump her abilities in with those of Topaz and Jerick (at least from what I've read, haven't had time to go through it fully yet but did look at the search results for a bunch of terms like "microkinesis"), even though they work differently, so her also being one would make sense.

Yeah, that WoB stumped me too, that is the only reason I put Ryalla aside, because otherwise what is happening to her seems to match Topaz and Jerick rather well.

6 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I don't think there's a distinction like that, Jerick is able to manipulate the electromagnetic force just as easily as axi when he makes the lightning bolt.

I think there is a distinction, in that all can manipulate all (possibly), they have different strengths + limitations.

Topaz can barely manipulate light, Jerick never does, but Ryalla does it extremely easily (up to creating a laser from ambient light!).
Ryalla cannot make flowers grows, neither can Jerick, but Topaz does it even passively (flowers in his room growing when he is coming back).

And neither of Ryalla or Topaz can seemingly do what Jerick can, i.e. effectively soulcast arrow into fire/smoke, create lighting bolts, cut people in half.

 

And most importantnly, Ryalla does not see Axi, and Topaz and Jerick don't see light.

6 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Interestingly Ryalla is able to use "sonic microkinesis" too, so her ability isn't just photons, but then all the microkinetic abilities seem kind of messy in what they encompass compared to Brandon's later more structured systems. Something to do with perceiving more generally, maybe?

Where does she do that? Her scream? If i recall correctly that was Cognitive phenomenon, not physical one.

6 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

 It seems more likely to me that the topaz contains one (we know the title "bearer of the first gem" is related) and the "source of power" Doruse was watching over that Jerick somehow got his power from is another, personally.

Good idea. I think that the topaz ring is now no longer Dawnshard, as it passed into Topaz directly (as he has his powers even after the ring was taken from him).

I think Jerick got his power from that ancient tree, or perhaps from the castmark he is wearing. There is too much emphasis on that tree and how odd it is, plus his inability to recall how he first found it.

The question then is, where did Ryalla get those powers? It must have been rather early in her life, as Frost was watching over her since she was a child (and this was probably the reason).
 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

9 minutes ago, therunner said:

I think there is a distinction, in that all can manipulate all (possibly), they have different strengths + limitations.

Fair point. Still, Jerick seems able to manipulate forces quite well, so I don't think it's a thing that's primarily her domain only. In the modern cosmere Illumination is considered "the Surge of Light, Sound, and Various Waveforms", maybe Ryalla's powers are based around an early form of that distinction too? (Frost makes a reference to "nuclear bonds" that seems to suggest Brandon thought electromagnetism was responsible for holding subatomic particles together at the time he wrote Dragonsteel, so we should keep in mind that there might also be somewhat questionable physics logic at play lol.)

7 minutes ago, therunner said:

Where does she do that? Her scream? If i recall correctly that was Cognitive phenomenon, not physical one.

 I was going off this line in Chapter 20:

Quote

If only he had looked out and seen, if only he had taken his duty a little more seriously. He hadn’t realized the danger until he heard Ryalla’s shout for help—a shout that had obviously not come from her mouth, but her mind. Waves projected into the air. Sonic microkinesis, something Ryalla should definitely not have been able to do. Topaz had been right again.

But if there's later context that contradicts this then nvm.

25 minutes ago, therunner said:

Good idea. I think that the topaz ring is now no longer Dawnshard, as it passed into Topaz directly (as he has his powers even after the ring was taken from him).

That fits what he says in tWoK as well, that it "became completely worthless for my wearing it".

19 minutes ago, therunner said:

I think Jerick got his power from that ancient tree, or perhaps from the castmark he is wearing. There is too much emphasis on that tree and how odd it is, plus his inability to recall how he first found it.

That is incredibly ironic given the nature of Topaz's powers.

20 minutes ago, therunner said:

The question then is, where did Ryalla get those powers? It must have been rather early in her life, as Frost was watching over her since she was a child (and this was probably the reason).

I think him watching over her is more personal, since he doesn't offer to go keep an eye on Jerick until Ryalla says she's going to, despite knowing by then that Jerick has "the power of destruction". He also says in the quote above that Ryalla should not be able to do magic, which is weird if he knows she has a connection to something like a Dawnshard.

[therunner he/him]

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Fair point. Still, Jerick seems able to manipulate forces quite well, so I don't think it's a thing that's primarily her domain only. In the modern cosmere Illumination is considered "the Surge of Light, Sound, and Various Waveforms", maybe Ryalla's powers are based around an early form of that distinction too? (Frost makes a reference to "nuclear bonds" that seems to suggest Brandon thought electromagnetism was responsible for holding subatomic particles together at the time he wrote Dragonsteel, so we should keep in mind that there might also be somewhat questionable physics logic at play lol.)

True on there being somewhat questionable logic involved regarding physics.

I don't think we t see Jerick manipulate forces, at best you could argue the lightning was one instance, but even that Frost describes as 'gathering/flow of sub-axi'.

Ryalla's power is definitely early precursor to lightweaving, so it is possible her powers are natural, and not of Dawnshard origin. Still her powers are too different from those of Jerick/Topaz, so I think they might not be able to do what she does to such extent. (Like Topaz would be unable to do what Jerick does with lighting/cutting).

2 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I was going off this line in Chapter 20:

Quote

If only he had looked out and seen, if only he had taken his duty a little more seriously. He hadn’t realized the danger until he heard Ryalla’s shout for help—a shout that had obviously not come from her mouth, but her mind. Waves projected into the air. Sonic microkinesis, something Ryalla should definitely not have been able to do. Topaz had been right again.

But if there's later context that contradicts this then nvm.

No that is the line, I just misremembered, thank you!

Sound can be conceptualized as 'phonons' (effective particle-like excitation), so that would fall in-scope of this early Lightweaving.

Quote

That fits what he says in tWoK as well, that it "became completely worthless for my wearing it".

Huh, true enough, I did not even consider that.

Quote

That is incredibly ironic given the nature of Topaz's powers.

Indeed
Though it would make a measure of sense, to hide Dawnshards in places that would be opposite to them, perhaps to hide their Spiritual imprint?
Hide Destroy/Destruction in place of life?

Quote

I think him watching over her is more personal, since he doesn't offer to go keep an eye on Jerick until Ryalla says she's going to, despite knowing by then that Jerick has "the power of destruction". He also says in the quote above that Ryalla should not be able to do magic, which is weird if he knows she has a connection to something like a Dawnshard.

Hmm good points. I do agree that it most likely personal then.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

7 hours ago, therunner said:

I don't think we t see Jerick manipulate forces, at best you could argue the lightning was one instance, but even that Frost describes as 'gathering/flow of sub-axi'.

Jerick describes it in terms of a force:

Spoiler

Go! Jerick ordered, without result. Split! his mind wailed ineffectually. Then, just before the spear hit him, he felt something else. It was like a force, a force that surrounded him, similar to the force that held all of the Axi together into objects. He couldn’t see it, not even microkinetically, but he could feel that it wanted to leave him. It wanted to escape into the ground. A lesser force was also pulling it toward the Sho Del warrior—or rather, Jerick realized, the Sho Del’s armor.

Go there! Jerick thought, indicating the armor. Not knowing quite how he did so, Jerick released the force.

And Frost describes it in terms of nuclear bonds in the same conversation you cite:

Spoiler

A spontaneous bridge of negative sub-Axi between two conductors.

Topaz was quiet for a moment. Um, of course, he mind-mumbled.

A bolt of lightning, Topaz, Frost said. It appears as if the boy has some ability in manipulating nuclear bonds.

It might take Jerick longer to first do than manipulating axi directly did, but compared to Topaz's poor light scattering it's pretty dramatic and seems to come relatively intuitively.

7 hours ago, therunner said:

Still her powers are too different from those of Jerick/Topaz, so I think they might not be able to do what she does to such extent. (Like Topaz would be unable to do what Jerick does with lighting/cutting).

Yeah agreed. I wonder if we can put together a color wheel of sorts, where each Dawnshard has a core zone of power but can dip into things on either side where the lines between different concepts are fuzzy

• Ryalla can primarily manipulate light and sound waves, but might be able to learn more. After all, everything is (sorta) a wave really.
• Topaz can primarily rearrange axi to match their Spiritual shadow, but he can also mess with photons a little bit like Ryalla (the rainbow), and can speed up/slow down axi a little bit like Jerick (lighting the candles).
• Jerick can primarily move axi apart, but he can also see the sound wave which touches on Ryalla's powers, and might be able to learn to reconnect axi a little bit like Topaz. After all, all interactions do involve axial forces.

While I did three because that's how many characters we know, I wouldn't be too surprised if there were five (I don't think the gods are Dawnshards but they could align with them or come from them). Perhaps there would've been one centered around manipulating the spiritweb for physical effect as suggested here, and then another based around.... something else axial idk?

8 hours ago, therunner said:

Though it would make a measure of sense, to hide Dawnshards in places that would be opposite to them, perhaps to hide their Spiritual imprint?

Ooh interesting, I like that.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

I got the feels that Hoid and Jerick are the Dawnshards and Ryalla was... just a girl capable of doing magic?

Apparently, all? Humans were capable of doing magic thousands of years ago, or Microkinesis, which i feel like all magic was/is called , but as Topaz said, he thinks that "Prohibition" is being rescinded, so for whatever reason Ryalla can do magic now. Thats my take anyhow

Hoid and Jerick seem to be able to directly affect or change things... Causing Growth or Healing & Destruction/splitting things apart... Ryalla seems to only manipulate whats around her, albeit in some pretty powerful ways. Though, i guess that could just be due to having different Dawnshards/powers, but i never got that vibe.

Edited April 6 by Eternal Khol

[Eternal Khol he/him]

I just remembered i forgot to post this last time, but there is something at the end that makes me think Ryalla was just a magic user and not a Dawnshard. 

Throughout the book Aronack tries to get Hoid to give him the Dawnshard.... apparently Aronack cant just take it from Hoid. It seems it has to be given? At least once being used by a person already 

Then at the end of the book when Ryalla is imitating Oreon/Aronack with her lightweaving, Oreon/Aronack himself shows up/speaks into Ryalla's mind and says that "you should not have imitated me" before making her lightweaving fail... but he didnt just make it fail, judging from Ryalla's second to last PoV, he actually took her power away as still hadnt gotten it back and muses on the idea if she ever would.

So i dont think she was a Dawnshard since Aronack was able to just take her magic away.

 

On 4/1/2024 at 9:58 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Frost makes a reference to "nuclear bonds" that seems to suggest Brandon thought electromagnetism was responsible for holding subatomic particles together at the time he wrote Dragonsteel, so we should keep in mind that there might also be somewhat questionable physics logic at play lol.)

 

Im not an expert at all and might just be confusing myself here XD, but i didnt see anything wrong with jerick shooting lightning and Frost mentipning nuclear bonds?... maybe "nuclear bonds" wasnt the right term there? but the electromagnetism part seems right, to me.

Axi are atoms right?, so sub-axi should also be protons, electrons, and neutrons(and by extension, quarks & leptons)

Therefore in the "spontaneous bridge of negative sub-axi between two conductors" line, the "negative sub-axi" should be electrons(negatively charged) which are held in place by electromagnetism... right? The Strong Force is what holds the Protons and Neutrons in place

Edited April 10 by Eternal Khol

[LewsTherinTelescope]

5 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

but he didnt just make it fail, judging from Ryalla's second to last PoV, he actually took her power away as still hadnt gotten it back and muses on the idea if she ever would.

Hm, weird, she also thinks this after that (underline mine):

Spoiler

Ryalla collapsed in a heap. She had been expecting Topaz to do something, to escape somehow. He was Topaz—he could get out of anything. But she knew it had been no trick. She could have sensed a bending of light—even if the jesk had been capable of such a thing. He was gone. They were left to face whatever was coming without Topaz.

Minor continuity error from the lack of beta reading, I guess?

If it's not a Dawnshard then I wonder why the powers are so similar and where they come from. Wish we could ask Brandon but I doubt he remembers

5 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

maybe "nuclear bonds" wasnt the right term there?

Yeah, at least to me "nuclear bonds" implies "strong force", not "electromagnetism". But electromagnetism for the lightning is right.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

43 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Minor continuity error from the lack of beta reading, I guess?

I dont think that one is an continuity error actually...

Ryalla was right. Hoid was actually not capable of bending light. He could only "Scatter it" like a prism making a rainbow, and says that he couldn't even make his ring dissapear let alone himself(like how Ryalla uses her lightweaving to hide/dissapear)

Quote

"I can scatter light into its separate colors. Holding it for even a moment, however, is taxing. Now, ask me how much energy it would take for me to bend light around myself, making it appear as if I weren’t here? Lords, Ryalla, I couldn’t even make this ring disappear.

 

43 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

If it's not a Dawnshard then I wonder why the powers are so similar and where they come from. Wish we could ask Brandon but I doubt he remembers

Its something ive kind of thought, in one form or another, for while, and was happy to see someone have the same though on reddit, just yesterday, but it seems like they could all do Microkinesis of some sort. Maybe Hoids and Jericks versions would be like Ryalla's but are "flavored" by the Dawnshards...?

Fr! I wish we could ask Brandon! there are 1/2 questions i am dying to know... what was "the source of power" Doruse was talking about? I mean it obviously was a Dawnshard... but what item was it in? When did jerick have contact? And where did Ryalla get her magic??? Did Frost or one of The five do something to her at some point?... Aronack took it away... maybe he also gifted it to her for whatever reason?

Edited April 10 by Eternal Khol
Typos

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

Ryalla was right. Hoid was actually not capable of bending light. He could only "Scatter it" like a prism making a rainbow, and says that he couldn't even make his ring dissapear let alone himself(like how Ryalla uses her lightweaving to hide/dissapear)

I'm talking about the part where she says she would have sensed it.

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

Maybe Hoids and Jericks versions would be like Ryalla's but are "flavored" by the Dawnshards...?

I don't think so. I mean, yes their powers are probably "flavored" by them, Hoid can (mostly) only grow while Jerick can (mostly) only destroy yeah, but Frost says seeing axi is the normal mode of function:

Spoiler

Anyway, Frost continued, I had almost concluded that he would never be able to do anything more than just see the Axi. For many, that is the extent of their powers, you know.

Curious whether all usage was aligned with one Dawnshard or another or if there's a "neutral" version out there. Aronack may imply the gods can grant it:

Spoiler

“He has become quite a warrior,” Oreon—or whoever he was—noted. “An impressive feat for a simple lumberman. You have no idea how surprised I was when I learned he had come from your village, Doruse. Tell me. Did you use your powers to make him as he is?”

But I don't know if he knows Jerick has microkinesis or just knows he has a strong Cognitive/Spiritual side generally, still need to read through properly.

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

I mean it obviously was a Dawnshard... but what item was it in? When did jerick have contact?

The ancient tree thing does seem likely to me. Wonder if there's a whole set of "firsts"—First Gem, First Tree, etc.

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

Did Frost or one of The five do something to her at some point?

Probably not Frost, he seems just as surprised about her powers as he is about Topaz and Jerick, but could be one of the Five yeah.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I'm talking about the part where she says she would have sensed it.

Oh yeah... her powers were gone at that point... I didnt even think of that lol

 

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I don't think so. I mean, yes their powers are probably "flavored" by them, Hoid can (mostly) only grow while Jerick can (mostly) only destroy yeah, but Frost says seeing axi is the normal mode of function:

Yeah, Im just theorizing off the fact that all three use Microkinesis and Hoid and probably Jerick have a Dawnshard so there powers would prob be diff than" normal" magic/Microkinesis(running on the hunch that there is a "normal" non-Dawnshard Microkinesis)

 

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Curious whether all usage was aligned with one Dawnshard or another or if there's a "neutral" version out there. Aronack may imply the gods can grant it:

It definitely seems it can be given/ taken away by them... humans apparently used to be magical then it was forbidden them "thousands" of years ago, Frost says. Its never said that the gods did that, but it had to either be "proto-Ado" or the gods themselves...

I feel like all humans, like the "creation story" and Frost suggests/states, were/used to be magical/Microkinetic(i feel like most magic was Microkinesis back then?) and those past, magical humans are also who Frost might have been referring to when saying that "For many, that is the extent of their powers, you know?"

 

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

The ancient tree thing does seem likely to me. Wonder if there's a whole set of "firsts"—First Gem, First Tree, etc.

Yeah, the tree does seem probable. Seemingly older/larger than the rest and constantly being struck by lightning but is fine... def outside of normal... i just wish there was some sort of scene that would have... made it clear

 

Edited April 10 by Eternal Khol

[LewsTherinTelescope]

4 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

I feel like all humans, like the "creation story" and Frost suggests/states, were/used to be magical/Microkinetic

Definitely some people did yeah. I don't know if it was everyone or not, the legend's got some holes (for example it seems like all of the Five were involved with fainlife rather than just Xeth, and it doesn't really explain how dragons relate to all this), but there's also clearly some truth since Drephrast references Aronack destroying the world once and Frost references humans being forbidden magic nowadays.

4 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

those past, magical humans are also who Frost might have been referring to when saying that "For many, that is the extent of their powers, you know?"

I took that as dragons, just because that's the group that's neither humans nor Sho Del and Xisis has some wild powers, but true Frost was probably around back then.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Definitely some people did yeah. I don't know if it was everyone or not, the legend's got some holes (for example it seems like all of the Five were involved with fainlife rather than just Xeth, and it doesn't really explain how dragons relate to all this), but there's also clearly some truth since Drephrast references Aronack destroying the world once and Frost references humans being forbidden magic nowadays

Oh for sure, the Creation story shouldn't be taken as fact. I was just trying to pair any parts of it i could with anything Frost or anyone else said.

 

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I took that as dragons, just because that's the group that's neither humans nor Sho Del and Xisis has some wild powers, but true Frost was probably around back then.

Yeah, it def could be. I just never really considered them as Frost states that he cant do magic/Microkinesis. I just assumed the rest couldnt either... not a very good assumption though, i guess.

PS. Frosty does say/think to himself though at one point that he has "never lied" and that seemed a truth, so i believe, that at the least, Frost himself cant do magic/Microkinesis 

[Arteth Chris he/him]

On 4/1/2024 at 11:56 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Supposedly there are only two, but then in the introduction Brandon instead says one so he might just be forgetting the number lol.

I was wondering about Ryalla, but I think two is right. Another clue that might fit with that is Wat's castemark especially given who he turns out to be.

Quote

He wore a simple brown robe, as usual, and his priest’s castemark— a simple wood circle with a stone in the center— hung around his neck.

We're not told what kind of stone, but if the two dawnshards started out as a gem and a tree, then might there be some significance to the priests wearing a combination of the two around their necks? Life and death, creation and destruction. A bit like the yin and yang symbol. That would point to two again though, rather than three. 

[Isilel]

On 4/15/2024 at 10:34 AM, Arteth Chris said:

I was wondering about Ryalla

 

I, too, am very much wondering about her. Who is she? Why does she look so different from her brother, who doesn't like to acknowledge their relationship? Why is she so important to Frost and why wasn't he surprised when she microcinetically called for help during the pond episode? If she is not a Dawnshard, could she be a dragon unbeknownst to herself?

[+Child of Hodor]

On 4/1/2024 at 5:56 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Supposedly there are only two, but then in the introduction Brandon instead says one so he might just be forgetting the number lol. Frost does lump her abilities in with those of Topaz and Jerick (at least from what I've read, haven't had time to go through it fully yet but did look at the search results for a bunch of terms like "microkinesis"), even though they work differently, so her also being one would make sense.

How would that work with the idea that the cast "unwittingly become" Dawnshards, especially since Hoid's already got his immortality and inability to harm? It seems more likely to me that the topaz contains one (we know the title "bearer of the first gem" is related) and the "source of power" Doruse was watching over that Jerick somehow got his power from is another, personally.

Yeah are at least two in here because Brandon has mentioned that multiple characters unwittingly become Dawnshards. Topaz is already one or has one on his hand anyways, but he doesn't seem to understand it. You might say Wit is unwittingly a Dawnshard 

Exactly how Dawnshards work in this semi-canon might be a bit different from what he has settled on 25 years later, but Topaz clearly has the same type of Dawnshard that canon Hoid and Sigzil had. Can't destroy and encourages life and growth of life. 

On 4/2/2024 at 12:58 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

That fits what he says in tWoK as well, that it "became completely worthless for my wearing it".

Great pull!

On 4/15/2024 at 3:34 AM, Arteth Chris said:

I was wondering about Ryalla, but I think two is right. Another clue that might fit with that is Wat's castemark especially given who he turns out to be.

We're not told what kind of stone, but if the two dawnshards started out as a gem and a tree, then might there be some significance to the priests wearing a combination of the two around their necks? Life and death, creation and destruction. A bit like the yin and yang symbol. That would point to two again though, rather than three. 

That's a great idea. 

Edited May 1 by Child of Hodor

[JPGU]

With the information we have in the book I think we can all agree that Hoid is indeed a Dawnshard, but I think Jerick is not one yet.

As someone already mentioned, Aronack takes away Ryalla's powers and when he talks to Doruse he asks if he was the one who gave Jerick his powers. That to me implies that Jerick is like Ryalla, that plus the fact that he doesn't show the same interest with Jerick that the one he shows with Hoid makes me think that Jerick is not a dawnshard but that her powers simply come from one

[Eternal Khol he/him]

It definitely could be with Brandon saying there is "a" Dawnshard in this book(Hoid is obvi one).... but i cant get out of my head that Frost stated that Hoid has "the power of life" and Jerick "the power of destruction"

Doruse also mentions watching over "the source of power'...  and Aronacks response is "so thats where he came from?" like there was a Dawnshard or something was present in the village and Jerick found it.

Edited May 5 by Eternal Khol

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 5/4/2024 at 10:21 AM, JPGU said:

when he talks to Doruse he asks if he was the one who gave Jerick his powers

Doruse seems to deny that, though:

Spoiler

“He has become quite a warrior,” Oreon—or whoever he was—noted. “An impressive feat for a simple lumberman. You have no idea how surprised I was when I learned he had come from your village, Doruse. Tell me. Did you use your powers to make him as he is?”

“I hold to my vow, brother,” Wat growled. “My purpose here was to watch over the source of power.”

“Ah,” Oreon said, folding his arms across his luminescent chest. “So that is where he came from. But, you hold to your vow? Then, if I were to destroy this one, you would do nothing to stop me?”

 

On 5/5/2024 at 6:30 AM, Eternal Khol said:

It definitely could be with Brandon saying there is "a" Dawnshard in this book(Hoid is obvi one).... but i cant get out of my head that Frost stated that Hoid has "the power of life" and Jerick "the power of destruction"

Elsewhere Brandon's said that there are two:

Spoiler

Gary

I was wondering if Dawnshards were created at the same time that Adonalsium was.

Brandon Sanderson

Dawnshards, I’ll have to RAFO that, mostly because my timeline for all the Yolen stuff, with the Adonalsium stuff, is going to depend on writing Dragonsteel. And right now, I intend those to be post-Adonalsium but pre-Shattering. But I can’t canonize that until I’ve actually written that mythology and lore. Because the original intent of the Dawnshards, when you read Dragonsteel Prime (which we’ll release with the Words of Radiance leatherbound), you will find two Dawnshards in there. And their original intent has changed a great deal as I’ve canonized things and really, really dug into building the cosmere. And you’ll see what my kind of original intent for those was. (Or at least I can talk about it.) And it’s changed since then. The way that they were in that book (and have remained so far) is that they are younger than Adonalsium.

Dragonmount Zoom Call (Dec. 10, 2020)

And that the main story was about multiple people becoming Dawnshards:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid was a Dawnshard at some point in the deep past, and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people, or even eat meat, is related to the changes this made to his spirit. (Consider this the same fundamental principle as savanthood.) The few of you who have read Dragonsteel know that him being a Dawnshard was also the source of his immortality in that book, though the terms were different back then. (The word Dawnshard was never mentioned, for example--though the primary story of Dragonsteel (which is no longer canon) was about several people who unwittingly become Dawnshards.)

And a preemptive RAFO to all questions on this point.

Dawnshard Annotations (Nov. 6, 2020)

So it seems pretty likely Jerick is tied to one, though might not have taken it into himself yet.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

3 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

So it seems pretty likely Jerick is tied to one, though might not have taken it into himself yet.

That does seem to be the case... i just wish wed get more of a confirmation. A DS Prime spoiler stream would be awesome! but i get there probably wouldnt be much demand now that its not canon

Edited May 19 by Eternal Khol

[Isilel]

On 5/19/2024 at 3:57 AM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

it seems pretty likely Jerick is tied to one, though might not have taken it into himself yet

 

Yes, it was notable IMHO that while Oreon tried to force Topaz to relinquish his power to him, he just threatened and manhandled Jerick in order to manipulate Doruso. You'd think that he would have been even more interested in the power of destruction, but nope.

[Kamtron]

Brandon Sanderon had a WoB where he said several people became Dawnshards in Dragonsteel Prime:

"Hoid was a Dawnshard at some point in the deep past, and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people, or even eat meat, is related to the changes this made to his spirit. (Consider this the same fundamental principle as savanthood.) The few of you who have read Dragonsteel know that him being a Dawnshard was also the source of his immortality in that book, though the terms were different back then. (The word Dawnshard was never mentioned, for example--though the primary story of Dragonsteel (which is no longer cannon) was about several people who unwittingly become Dawnshards.)

And a preemptive RAFO to all questions on this point. :)"