Nomad and the Torment

[cosmeredoug_30]

So I was reading up on investiture and ended up stumbling on a Q&A that gave me a thought about the mechanics of the Torment, since I just finished Sunlit Man.

Quote

Douglas

What benefit does an aluminum savant get? Yes, I know this would normally never happen because aluminum burns itself up. Suppose a mad scientist with a willing Mistborn test subject shoved a feeding tube down the Mistborn's throat to pump in a continuous stream of aluminum, replenishing it steadily so there's always a new unburned supply. Add another tube to pump out excess water if necessary. What would he discover? Alternatively, what would Sazed with his Shard-granted knowledge know?

Brandon Sanderson

Ha, that IS a little silly of a method. However, on the extreme end of aluminum, I have in the notes the possibility of cleansing the spirit of unwanted effects of other Investitures. You'd get really good at this, and maybe even be able to cleanse the body of other impurities.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

 In the book, Nomad uses a sunheart to cleanse the 'muck' or 'scar tissue' from his own soul, lessening the effect of the Torment so that he can fight. Nomad temporarily held the same Dawnshard that Hoid currently holds, which is why they both have the same Torment, being unable to physically harm others. We also know that Hoid is Mistborn. If the Q&A above is anything to go by and considering that sunhearts likely won't become a greater part of the Cosmere, could Hoid technically remove the Torment from himself by becoming an Aluminium savant, thus cleansing his spirit from the unwanted investiture preventing him from dealing harm? I doubt this will actually happen since it would be a very complicated way to go about it but I can also absolutely see Hoid doing something this crazy and was just wondering if it was possible.

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, cosmeredoug_30 said:

Nomad temporarily held the same Dawnshard that Hoid currently holds

Hoid is not currently a Dawnshard, he was a Dawnshard some time in the past long before the events of Stormlight Archive - WoB:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid was a Dawnshard at some point in the deep past, and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people, or even eat meat, is related to the changes this made to his spirit. (Consider this the same fundamental principle as savanthood.) 

And a preemptive RAFO to all questions on this point.

Dawnshard Annotations (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

6 hours ago, cosmeredoug_30 said:

could Hoid technically remove the Torment from himself by becoming an Aluminium savant, thus cleansing his spirit from the unwanted investiture preventing him from dealing harm?

Probably not: (Stormlight Archive Spoilers):

Spoiler

For teh same reason Kaladin could not heal his brand until recently. All types of healing depend on if your Spiritual and Cognitive Identlty see something as part of you, and "cleansing" the spiritweb is likely going to follow the same rules. WoB:

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Let's talk about the Torment for a second. Hoid would not call what has happened to him a Torment. Hoid, by holding a Dawnshard, was made permanently unable to cause physical harm to other beings. Eating meat makes him nauseous (if he is somehow able to eat it, and a lot of the times he just can't). That is because of the nature of the Dawnshard that he held actively warping and changing his spirit. He would not name it this. Nomad has named what has happened to him, a Torment. This is not a term that you can universally apply as a magical aspect of something. This is Sigzil saying "this terrible thing happened to me". And indeed what is happening to Sigzil is on a level beyond what happened to Hoid. So therefore perhaps other arcanists would say, "Yes, these are an aspect of holding a Dawnshard and Torment is the right way", but that word is loaded. That word has meaning, and someone is naming it this. You are not gonna run into a large set of people- there are only four Dawnshards- and you're not gonna run into a large set of people that have held one, so there may be no consensus even in-world to what these are called, and if they are Torment or blessings or what they are. Holding a Dawnshard will warp your soul. It's so much Investiture, it is so powerful, that you cannot hold one even briefly without it having a permanent effect upon you. 

Secret Project #4 Reveal and Livestream (March 29, 2022)

Since Hoid sees himself as a Dawnsliver and does not consider the rmifications of that to be a Torment (which is Nomad's term for himself, not a generic term), it is unlikely that this (or anything) would change that about Hoid, unless his self-perception also changed radically. 

But could something like this help Nomad (or csomebody else)? I think that is likely (or would at least lessen it the way Nomad did with the Sunheart).

[LewsTherinTelescope]

To the person who reported this for Sunlit Man spoilers: appreciate the incredibly fast reaction, but OP actually did post there and I moved the thread literally like two minutes ago because we're in the middle of deleting that forum That's some real perfect timing lol.

[Elite01]

So I wonder if there could be some delicate hemalurgy to remove the torment from Hoid. It would get around any of the self perception problems. You still have problems of it Hoid would want that to happen but it could be one possibility. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Elite01 said:

So I wonder if there could be some delicate hemalurgy to remove the torment from Hoid. It would get around any of the self perception problems. You still have problems of it Hoid would want that to happen but it could be one possibility. 

Probably possible.

The only reason I think maybe it couldn't is because Hoid's Spiritweb changes are supposed to be stronger than Nomad's, and we are talking about messing with Dawnshards, so it going either way is possible until Brandon cannonizes it.

Edited April 8 by Trusk'our

[Janice Cook]

On 11/12/2023 at 12:38 AM, Landis963 said:

I think I knew when he had the blow-up at Hoid.  His synopsis of Wit's actions in tWoK and WoR was too specific - and too personal - to come from anyone else.  It's been a while since the preview chapters, though.  YouTube comments might just as easily have spoiled me. 

must check u h tube…one of the rare ones who doesn’t mind sploilers

[Guest]

The difficulty is whether the Torment would be viewed as in impurity or not. Maybe Nomad becomes an aluminum allomancer then a savant but the magic doesn't view the Torment as an impurity but a piece of him so it doesn't remove.