How were the Bands made? [TLM Spoilers]

[Y F-N she/her]

So, we know that Kelsier was the one to give out the first Unsealed metalminds to the Southern Scadrians after the Ice Death, because Wax received an unsealed metalmind containing the memory. But we also know from the Lost Metal epilogue that he has no access to his allomancy, and therefore presumably couldn't have made the bands of mourning despite all the imagery associated with him.

 

We do, however, know of one person who has access to most, if not all, allomantic and feruchemic abilities. And that person is Marsh. Did Marsh somehow work with Kelsier to create the Bands of Mourning? Perhaps Sazed helped give the idea of unsealed metalminds, because he noticed the Southern Scadrians dying and wanted to save them, and then Kelsier took the idea to its extreme (as he is wont to do)? If not Marsh, then maybe Spook for the allomancy (he would've still been around, and a full allomancer) and some unknown person for the feruchemy.

If Sazed did indeed give Kelsier the unsealed metalminds idea, and that led to the Bands, then perhaps that's one of the reasons he doesn't trust the Ghostbloods and tell them what's going on with Autonomy-- he knows Kelsier will take whatever he says and make it dangerous.

These are my current musings. But I'm curious to see if anyone has any others.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

2 hours ago, Y F-N said:

So, we know that Kelsier was the one to give out the first Unsealed metalminds to the Southern Scadrians after the Ice Death, because Wax received an unsealed metalmind containing the memory. But we also know from the Lost Metal epilogue that he has no access to his allomancy, and therefore presumably couldn't have made the bands of mourning despite all the imagery associated with him.

 

We do, however, know of one person who has access to most, if not all, allomantic and feruchemic abilities. And that person is Marsh. Did Marsh somehow work with Kelsier to create the Bands of Mourning? Perhaps Sazed helped give the idea of unsealed metalminds, because he noticed the Southern Scadrians dying and wanted to save them, and then Kelsier took the idea to its extreme (as he is wont to do)? If not Marsh, then maybe Spook for the allomancy (he would've still been around, and a full allomancer) and some unknown person for the feruchemy.

If Sazed did indeed give Kelsier the unsealed metalminds idea, and that led to the Bands, then perhaps that's one of the reasons he doesn't trust the Ghostbloods and tell them what's going on with Autonomy-- he knows Kelsier will take whatever he says and make it dangerous.

These are my current musings. But I'm curious to see if anyone has any others.

I think it's more likely he worked with Spook on making them. Kelsier went to him soon after the Catacendre and they experimented with the Metallc Arts. Though yeah, I don't think Kel can use Unsealed Metalminds since as of TLM he's still looking for a way to use allomancy, which must mean the Bands couldn't work for him.

[Xiahida]

For Unkeyed metalminds, you blank the Identity keyed to the metalmind and anyone can use it. I see two workarounds,

1. Wax mentions something about most people having some Terris blood in them, so if you blank the Identity but leave in the Terris part of the Identity, I think it might work, but have no way to test it.

2. You do some weird Connection tricks, not sure what, but Connection is powerful.

Small paradox: When our Era 2 gang used some medallions, they tapped an UNSEALED nicrosilmind to tap an UNKEYED ironmind...why couldn't they make the ironmind Unsealed and save the extra step? This could be a precaution to balance it, or do the Malwish not have the understanding or skill, and Unsealed nicrosilminds are just easier, while the Unsealed ironmind is harder and has more steps.

[Treamayne]

28 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

Small paradox: When our Era 2 gang used some medallions, they tapped an UNSEALED nicrosilmind to tap an UNKEYED ironmind...why couldn't they make the ironmind Unsealed and save the extra step? This could be a precaution to balance it, or do the Malwish not have the understanding or skill, and Unsealed nicrosilminds are just easier, while the Unsealed ironmind is harder and has more steps

The Nicrosil is what makes an Unkeyed Metalmind Unsealed so that anybody can access it (Coppermind) because the Nicrosil is storing the ability to use F-Iron, so you tap that to have the ability to use Iron, then tap or store Iron (in that instance). 

Spoiler

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

So, it is like a Coppermind - while tapping you are accessing the stored Manifestation of Investiture. What we do not yet know is how a normal Soulbearer is different, because he has confirmed they are not quitethe same:

Spoiler

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Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

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Questioner

So nicrosil.  Wax couldn’t use a blank gold metalmind because he’s not a gold ferring, why can he use a blank nicrosil metalmind?

Brandon Sanderson

So this will all come out eventually but the idea is there are certain ways to connect yourself to magic, to hack the magic and make it think you have the Spiritual DNA that you don’t actually have.  And this is one of the ways.

Questioner

So then the people who made this medallion have this thing that a regular nicrosil Ferring couldn’t--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you’re picking up on it. We’ll dig deeper into it as the series progresses.

Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)

 

Hope that helps

[Xiahida]

But you aren't able to tap a nicrosilmind because you aren't a Ferring, so where are you getting that power?

[alder24]

14 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

But you aren't able to tap a nicrosilmind because you aren't a Ferring, so where are you getting that power?

We don't know yet. What we do know is that they are more alive than metalminds, they have an identity of their own. I think that you don't tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, because it's a little alive and has its own identity, it connects itself to you and through that connection it grants you powers stored in nicrosil.

Spoiler

Raddatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

SA spoilers:

Spoiler

They are like Honorblades, in fact they work by similar mechanism and it's the bond with Honorblades that grants you Surgebinding powers. Honorblades are also self-aware. Unsealed medallions and Honorblades are very close to each other. That's the clue how medallions are giving you powers. 

Spoiler

Questioner

Do Honorblades bestow their abilities similar to an Identity-free nicrosilmind with other Metalborn abilities?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, these are working on similar principles. Same principle, divergent applications by the magic system, but yeah, I would say, they come back to the same principles.

Orem signing (March 10, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Fluffy (paraphrased)

When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022)

 

 

[Duxredux he/him]

Let's address the Kandra/Mistwraith in the room.

First off, Realmatically it is totally possible for Kandra to gain Allomancy and Feruchemy. Paalm indisputably proved that as both a Coinshot and a Steelrunner. Top theory that Kelsier is really more of a Kandra means that this is still either more complicated than what he has solved, involves measures he's not willing to take (maybe needs second spike opening him up to Shardic interference), or his specific circumstance still disqualifies him (like if you need to rip out a spike and use a Trellium spike, and he can't do it because his current spike hold his consciousness or something).

Next, this quote:

11 hours ago, Xiahida said:

1. Wax mentions something about most people having some Terris blood in them, so if you blank the Identity but leave in the Terris part of the Identity, I think it might work, but have no way to test it.

This is Wax and VenDell speculating at the beginning of BoM before they've even seen an unkeyed Metalmind, let alone an unsealed one. Neither has produced empirical evidence to this point. Notably the assertion that this has to do with shared Terris heritage with the rationale that the Elendel Basin intermarried after the Catacendre doesn't explain how all of Southern Scadrial uses this technology. We know hardly anything about the Southern Scadrians other than that metalborn are incredibly rare and considered pieces of god, so... do they even have any Terris ancestry whatsoever?

I'll also note that the Weight medallions in BoM worked for everyone - including MeLaan. If the Bands of Mourning don't work for Kelsier, it's probably not because he's a Kandra/Mistwraith.

Medallion tech works for non-Scadrians as well. Just forget everything about them requiring Terris blood.

WoB

Spoiler

Questioner

Could non-Scadrians use Southern Scadrian medallions, and if so, could Drabs, too?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, the amulets? Yes, yes they could.

Questioner

And Drabs, also?

Brandon Sanderson

Could Drabs use one of the amulets and make them work? Yeah, Drabs could. They're missing a little bit of something I'll explain eventually, but they could make those work.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

Spoiler

wiresegal

In post-medallion-tech Scadrial, (i.e. Era 3) is there any cultural awareness of transgender people? Since for some, their biological state would be affected by Feruchemical gold healing, and that would probably be a documented effect.

Brandon Sanderson

The different cultures and subcultures are going to look at this differently, but I'd say yes, there is awareness. And the more they experiment with the metallic arts being available outside of genetic lines, the more this will be understood for reasons you point out.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 29, 2018)

Beyond that for the creation of the Bands, there's too many unknowns. We don't know what the excisors are, how Medallion's are made at all, let alone all the constraints that would have to be met in order to produce the Bands. I'm still waiting on an explanation on the Medallions which won't come until Era 3 because Brandon lost his original writeup. It's complicated enough that it took several pages, so I don't think we'll get it just by guessing. If it's that complicated for Medallions and they have no idea how to make the Bands, then goooood luck.

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muh_vehicles

A while back you said that if you didn't reveal how medallions are made after The Lost Metal, we could bug you for the step-by-step process. Can you tell us now?

Brandon Sanderson

So I tried to find my little write-up on this and I can't find it. So I have to re-write it up. You can bug me but I'm not going to get it yet. It needs to be canonized for certain things that are coming up very soon, so I need to write it all out again. Double-check that I run it through continuity, that it is right. The more we do these things the more complicated it gets, and the more like computer programming in a world using physics that don't exist it gets. Which is fun! That's the feature, not the bug, that it gets really finicky how these things work. But it means I have to do that whole writeup again. It was several pages. So I am going to do that again, I have to have it in hand before I can do Era Three. Bug me again when I'm writing Era Three. Sorry.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)