Unmade links to Polestones SA5 Preview Spoilers

[The Stick]

One notable thing in the new preview chapters for SA5 is the mention that BAM was trapped into a flawless heliodor.  This would indicate to me that each Unmade has a specific Polestone it is linked to to be bound into. After all, Yelig-Nar was in an amethyst and Nergaoul is in a ruby. If BAM is indeed locked in a heliodor, than I would posit that this also links her to the essence of Sinew. Oddly enough, this means that BAM would correspond to Ishar as a herald. This would raise some extremely interesting questions for book 5. In addition, we know from this WoB that you need an intrinsic connection to an Unmade to trap it in a gemstone.

Quote

OddyFan

Did Dalinar use his Bondsmith abilities to catch Nergaoul?

Brandon Sanderson

What happened here has happened before, but a Bondsmith was involved then too. However, Dalinar's personal connection to the Unmade was very important.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361/#e11439

 

 

This above quote would imply Melishi was deeply connected to BAM.

[Experience he/him]

Could one of the heralds be a singer? Just had the thought and wasn't sure if we know or not if it's a possibility.

[The Stick]

No, they all came from Ashyn, and there were no singers on Ashyn.

Well, technically it is theoretically possible Shalash could be singer, because it is unknown whether she was born on Roshar or Ashyn, and her mother is unknown. So if Jezrien had a fling with a singer right after getting to Roshar, it is possible.

Edited April 28 by The Stick

[alder24]

10 hours ago, The Stick said:

If BAM is indeed locked in a heliodor, than I would posit that this also links her to the essence of Sinew. Oddly enough, this means that BAM would correspond to Ishar as a herald.

This is weird as Brandon has previously said that there is no Unmade corresponding to Bondsmiths. I wasn't expecting heliodor to be used for Unmades because of that.

Spoiler

XS-Terrain

Also, does each of the Unmade have a corresponding order of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Eh... Kind of.

XS-Terrain

Ok. So there are nine Unmade right, so which one is left out?

Brandon Sanderson

Bondsmith. But it's not as one to one, there's some fuzziness in there.

Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017)

 

10 hours ago, Experience said:

Could one of the heralds be a singer? Just had the thought and wasn't sure if we know or not if it's a possibility.

I wouldn't exclude this possibility, after all Venli remarks that Nale's scar on his face looks like Singer's pattern, from Nale's memory it looks like he was an enemy to Jezrien (whatever it means) before he asked him to join Heralds, so he might be in some way related to Singers, maybe he had mixed parents, or something like that? All Heralds maybe with the exception of Ash came from Ashyn, Ash might have been born on Roshar already, Brandon isn't sure. But from all we know, Nale wasn't present when BAM was imprisoned. 

RoW ch 77:

Quote

A figure darkened the doorway to the guard post. The bearded soldier looked up. Venli turned slowly, attuning Anxiety. The newcomer was an imposing figure with deep brown skin and a pale mark on his cheek, almost like a listener might have as part of their skin pattern.

RoW ch 47:

Quote

Flash.
Nale clasping hands with a bearded Alethi man, regal and wise. Dalinar knew this was Jezerezeh, though he couldn’t say how.
“I will take this charge,” Nale said softly. “With honor.”
“Do not consider it an honor,” Jezerezeh said. “A duty, yes, but not an honor.”
“I understand. Though I had not expected you would come to an enemy with this offer.”
“An enemy, yes,” Jezerezeh said. “But an enemy who was correct all along, making me the villain, not you. We will fix what we’ve broken. Ishar and I agreed. There is no person we would welcome more eagerly into this pact than you. You are the single most honorable man I have ever had the privilege of opposing.”
“I wish that were true,” Nale said. “But I will serve as best I can

 

Spoiler

Willshaper Wallar

...Were the Heralds alive for the human exodus from Ashyn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. They were not Heralds then, but they all made that trip. I believe. My timeline-- You can't nail me down on that one, because it's possible that Ash was born after, but I don't think so.

Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018)

 

[The Stick]

Well, in Oathbringer, when Vyre stabs Jezrien with the raysium knife, it is mentioned that the gemstone in the knife is sapphire, which is Jezrien's Polestone. I reread the box scene in RoW, and sadly it does not mention which type of gemstone was in the dagger Shallan was to use against Kalak.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 4/28/2024 at 7:16 AM, alder24 said:

But from all we know, Nale wasn't present when BAM was imprisoned.

He was, Dreaming-though-Awake mentions it (RoW 24):

Spoiler

"Seriously?" Shallan said. "You don't know anything about Ba-Ado-Mishram."

"I was not alive when she was free," the spren said. "If you wish to know more, ask the Heralds. I have heard several were there for her binding. Nalan. Kelek. Find them; ask them." She walked off, more drifting than stepping, though she did have legs and feet.

 

[Elder]

This is all swirling into a unifying theory for me…. It will be interesting to see how far off I am in December.  This probably isn’t the place for the whole thing but…

I do like the idea of particular Polestones being used for particular unmade.  So my question is:

Was Re Shephir bound in a Garnet… or something else.

[The Sovereign]

On 4/28/2024 at 11:56 AM, The Stick said:

Well, in Oathbringer, when Vyre stabs Jezrien with the raysium knife, it is mentioned that the gemstone in the knife is sapphire, which is Jezrien's Polestone. I reread the box scene in RoW, and sadly it does not mention which type of gemstone was in the dagger Shallan was to use against Kalak.

Presumably it would be Amethyst.

[GudThymes he/him]

A few WoB for you that relate to the convo:

Spoiler

asmodeus (paraphrased)

Would the Unmade correspond to the various Knight Radiant Orders by philosophy? Would Odium's champion be his equivalent to the Bondsmiths?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, the varieties of the Fused do that. It's not 1-to-1, but think of the Unmade as the analogs of Heralds. Odium has no Bondsmith Analog.  

Footnote: Brandon specifically used the spelling "analog." The capitalization is also replicated.
General Reddit 2019 (Jan. 1, 2019)

Spoiler

XS-Terrain

Also, does each of the Unmade have a corresponding order of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Eh... Kind of.

XS-Terrain

Ok. So there are nine Unmade right, so which one is left out?

Brandon Sanderson

Bondsmith. But it's not as one to one, there's some fuzziness in there.

Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017)

Spoiler

Questioner

Are there enough perfect gemstones on Roshar to capture all of the Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there are.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

Spoiler

Questioner

Does each Unmade on Roshar have a specific attribute that they embody?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, to an extent they do, yes.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

So the unmade relate to/are analogs to the knights radiant and heralds (except bondsmiths). They have their own attributes and there are gemstones for every unmade.

Seems conclusive to me that the pole stone to unmade theory is correct and it likely requires either a specific person closely connected to the Unmade or a bondsmith connected to the Unmade in order to capture them.

[Ashbringer he/him]

My interpetation was that you need a very deep Connection to an Unmade in order to bind it, which Dalinar had to Nergaoul - but also that forging very deep Connections out of a hat is just what Bondsmiths can do.

BAM’s always felt Bondsmithy to me - Connecting to an entire race, giving them Voidlight, seems pretty close to what Dalinar can do, and doesn’t mimic another Order or Surge as well as, say, Sja-Anat (who IMO seems more Truthwatcher/Progression-y, wonder why, or possibly Soulcasting-y). Maybe BAM’s supposed to line up with Windrunners/Stonewards.

Although… maybe there’s another idea. Would have to look at a few things. Has anyone given thought to the Unmade being the Inverse of an Order? Nergaoul removing self-control as opposed to the Dustbringers seeking it, Moelach giving up truths as opposed to Truthwatchers finding it, Ashertmarn giving self-indulgence as opposed to Stonewards’ sense of need?

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

On 8/13/2024 at 3:38 PM, GudThymes said:

So the unmade relate to/are analogs to the knights radiant and heralds (except bondsmiths). They have their own attributes and there are gemstones for every unmade.

He says it's not 1 to 1 and there is some fuzziness. With BAM being corresponding to heliodor really points like Bondsmith but what if it is surges not Radiant orders that they are corresponding to? And the one missing is Adhesion - "Honor's truest surge"?

Edited August 21 by Dreamwa1ker

[GudThymes he/him]

On 8/20/2024 at 8:38 PM, Dreamwa1ker said:

He says it's not 1 to 1 and there is some fuzziness. With BAM being corresponding to heliodor really points like Bondsmith but what if it is surges not Radiant orders that they are corresponding to? And the one missing is Adhesion - "Honor's truest surge"?

I agree with your interpretation. I think what we are being clued in on is that the Unmade correlate more with the surges than the order, and the surge that is left out is Adhesion. Especially since the Fused only have access to one surge.

[Elder]

Well, I mean it never could be one to one, given that there’s one more Herald/Radiant order than there is Unmade…. Lining them up, you could put those 9 in between the 10, depending on how you arranged it (visualizing in my head).

I suppose the question is: is Connection tied solely to Adhesion, the surge Odium’s forces have no access to? Or could it be manipulated by other surges, (like Cohesion, Division, etc).

more likely, at least some of the unmade and their voidbinding isn’t necessarily tied to surge binding.  Odium develops Connection despite his lack of Adhesion.

Edited August 22 by Elder

[alder24]

19 hours ago, Elder said:

I suppose the question is: is Connection tied solely to Adhesion, the surge Odium’s forces have no access to?

Spiritual Adhesion is the only ability we know that allows to manipulate Connections. But Odium forces have access to this ability, Veni as an Envoyform can connect herself to understand languages, which is the same ability Dalinar has. 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

50 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Spiritual Adhesion is the only ability we know that allows to manipulate Connections. But Odium forces have access to this ability, Veni as an Envoyform can connect herself to understand languages, which is the same ability Dalinar has. 

if Spiritual Adhesion is the only ability we know that can do that, how was Design able to manipulate Connection in Yumi when she is a cryptic?

Edited August 23 by CtrlAltDepressed

[alder24]

41 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

if Spiritual Adhesion is the only ability we know that can do that, how was Design able to manipulate Connection in Yumi when she is a cryptic?

I meant Surge on Roshar. There are other, common ways of manipulating Connection in Cosmere, accessible to most Worldhoppers. In Yumi Design seems to be "stretching" the line of Connection in some way and that was the most Design was able to do. Yumi ch 22:

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She dashed off toward the bar, where Painter was chatting with Design. When she arrived, she found Design stretching something glowing between her fingers. Like a cord made of light. Yumi momentarily forgot what she’d been about, instead staring at that strange sight. A glowing rope, whose ends vanished into nothing.
“Your spiritweb,” Design was saying, “knows what body is yours. It remains Connected to it, you see. You form Connections like that with everyone—and to a lesser extent everything—you’ve known. Nifty, eh!”
“And that cord,” Painter was saying, “is mine?”
“Yup!” Design said. “This won’t cut it. Don’t worry. I’m just lengthening it, and also checking it for problems. I couldn’t think of much else to help— sorry, I’m incorrigibly useless at times. It’s in my Pattern. But at least this will give you a longer leash, so to speak.”

And you know, Design is on another planet in Yumi, far, far away from Roshar despite her Connection to it. This is something that no spren or CS is currently able to do. If she found a way to deal with her ties and leave Roshar, she can do this slight lengthening of Nikaro's Connection in the far future and it doesn't have to be done with Rosharan Surges.

[Ashbringer he/him]

We also know that BAM has some measure of power over Connection - she Connected to singers everywhere as a race, and when she was bound she ripped the Connection right out of most of them (and also broke Radiant bonds somehow).