Pre Era of Solitude Histories

[Nightstar The Bright]

I’ve noticed that many of the major Rosharan nation pages (Azir, Alethkar, Shinovar etc), which could be considered the successors to the Silver kingdoms, include history from before their founding (human arrival, heraldic Epochs etc). I think this should be removed, or rather moved to the Silver kingdoms pages, because, like I said, the states weren’t there yet. These nation pages aren’t about the land itself, their about the nations. What do you guys think of this?

[Quantus he/him]

Hmm, I dont know, that feels like saying American History begins at 1776, and that the colonial times that came before in those regions must be discussed as a separate thing.  I think I'd arge that these pages are about the region, inclusive of the people, geography, culture, and Government structure.  

 

[Nightstar The Bright]

On 5/3/2024 at 5:36 PM, Quantus said:

Hmm, I dont know, that feels like saying American History begins at 1776, and that the colonial times that came before in those regions must be discussed as a separate thing.  I think I'd arge that these pages are about the region, inclusive of the people, geography, culture, and Government structure.  

 

I see what you are saying, but the American colonies were very close to the foundation of the American state (like including a fall of (… sliver kingdom) on one of these pages, which I think is a good idea) but the silver kingdoms and their ‘successors’ aren’t terribly close at all (Makamakam is culturally real different then Azir). So far, most nation pages are about the nations themselves (e.g. we have a Hallandren and a Hanald page, both are in the same region, but they’re different nations (same with Tu bayla and Bayala)). It should also be noted that we have separate pages for the silver kingdoms, if nation pages are more about the people and culture, shouldn’t these be merged (following your logic)?

[alder24]

On 5/3/2024 at 5:15 PM, Nightstar The Bright said:

I’ve noticed that many of the major Rosharan nation pages (Azir, Alethkar, Shinovar etc), which could be considered the successors to the Silver kingdoms, include history from before their founding (human arrival, heraldic Epochs etc). I think this should be removed, or rather moved to the Silver kingdoms pages, because, like I said, the states weren’t there yet. These nation pages aren’t about the land itself, their about the nations. What do you guys think of this?

Disagree. Is the history of the Ottoman Empire separate from Turkey's history? Would you remove the history of HRE, or Prussia before unification of Germany in 1871, saying that it's not Germany because that state didn't exist, nor was it named Germany at that time? But back then it was an empire, nothing like today's state, then it changed into a republic, the 3rd Reich, it was divided into West and East and unified again in 1990. When did the history of modern Germany start? The current iteration of Germany started in 1990 - would you remove everything that was before because those states were vastly different from modern Germany? Where would you draw the line? 

People form nations. Nations evolve, change, grow or fall with their people. The history of a state doesn't start when its modern iteration began, it starts with its people and rulers far in the past that lived in a state that didn't even share the same name as today's country. It's a continuous history and past iterations of a nation aren't removed from its modern form, they are the predecessors that grew into what's now. Germans lived in Germany before Germany existed, Alethi lived in Alethkar before it existed. They've simply changed, but their past directly shaped them in the modern times. The history of previous states is still their history, even if the name was different.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

On 5/6/2024 at 6:07 AM, alder24 said:

Where would you draw the line? 

[Chaos he/him]

I feel like Azir is a great example of appropriate usage of information. 

I do agree in some sense that yes, there should be a "Main article: Makabakam" and we should do our best to not repeat information on both pages. But Silver Kingdom information is limited. This is tricky. I'm sure there could be some sentences, theoretically, in some of these articles that should be on the appropriate Silver Kingdom page. Maybe some Makabakam stuff should be here, and we could discuss particulars.

However, I do think there's a balance here. I think these modern nation pages should be pretty thorough, and so there should be some reference to what happened before, but keep it brief if there is another article that the information could be more appropriate for. So I'd be opposed unilaterally removing all of this from, say, Azir or Alethkar.

It's kind of like the difference between Hallandren and Hanald pages, which look to me to be pretty appropriate. Most people will search Hallandren, and so you want some info on Hanald/Manywar stuff on Hallandren's page, but you want the details to be on Hanald. 

Taking a quick look at Alethkar, I feel like there is probably a way to compactify/summarize the Alethela stuff on that page and have the majority of that be on the Alethela page. The Alethela page is... much worse than that section on the Alethkar page. There might be others in this category, and so we could talk about specifics, sure.