The Reputation Points Problem

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Reputation is bad for the culture of the Shard. If we continue with the current system, we will be continually shying away from the purpose of the Shard. I admit I am a part of this and have encouraged a lot of it unconsciously, but this is where I say that I change. 

(Before I get into the main body of this, I would just like to acknowledge that the moment I understood this all truly and actually had any of these ideas was when I had a conversation with @Aeoryi. Without Aeo, I probably wouldn't have seen any of this and wouldn't be writing this post rn.)

The purpose of the Shard is to talk to one another about books, to roleplay, to chat with people with similar interests. Rep replaces any of the discussion, rep, in my experience, has been simply a hollow way of saying that you acknowledge something without truly giving any real indication. Rep is there to say that we like something. But what if you do not have as much rep? But what if you post something and it only gets one or two reputation and no-one responds? Think about it. It would be a billion times more meaningful if those were genuine responses. What do we gain from merely an upvote? It is better to have a response that is merely "Hey, I like this idea" rather than a voiceless heart and notification. It is typically a fact that if there are responses to an SU, then more people will take notice and look into it. Actually discussing things rather than simply acknowledging the post's existence. 

In my time on the Shard, I have noticed that people, and even myself, have put stock in reputation points. The idea that we get ranked higher because we are more "popular" hits wrong to me and has for several others. I, more than a lot of people, do like to watch a number go up, but if that number is based on just general popularity of your posts, then is that really doing more help than harm? If you are a sharder who makes such posts that don't garner responses or rep, then is it really good if you go and see that the other guy got, say, six rep for one sentence. If reputation means something to people, then is ranking someone who has higher rep a good idea? Really?

If we put stock in rep, then we seek it whether we like it or not. If there is rep on a status update, people will read it more likely. Reputation sets posts aside for special interest above other posts. In a big algorithmic place like YouTube, this works really well. The Shard is not YouTube. There is no real point to the rep system beyond saying that x post is better than y post. In a community where we want to be accepting of all people, where we want to have a diversity of opinion, whether that opinion is "popular" or not (I know, my fellow conservatives, I used the d word. Relax), do we really want to do that? It should not matter how many likes a post has for people to look at it, this sets a precedent that what matters more is how many people saw it and liked it rather than the actual merits of the post itself. 

Winning the day becomes a reward, winning the day becomes a competition. Does reputation bring some fun? Sure, yeah, but the bad far outweighs the good. Do we honestly need to fight to win a day with how supposedly popular we are? That's pitting us against each other for gaining popularity in a way that has not been fully exploited by people to the extent that it could, but could certainly be more consciously if things continue where we're going. People get a lot o rep because they like to say stuff, namely in status updates. I am one of those people. But here is the thing, the point of those SUs is not to gain rep, it's to chat with similar people! I'm saying all this because I never want it to turn into something else, which is more likely to happen over time with the influx of people that will come whenever we get an adaptation, or as Brandon's popularity gains speed.

My vision for the Shard is that we eliminate reputation points, we eliminate the ranking system, we eliminate the idea of posts with those markers that you get for having a certain amount of rep. Instead, the only mark of a post being "liked" is by the replies, by the people quoting the post in a topic, by people genuinely talking to each other and engaging in conversation. What are we here on the Shard to do, after all, if not to talk to eachother about things we are passionate about? Building a reputation around how many likes you get will not get you anywhere, but building a reputation on discussion, being genuine and building other people up will take you farther than any road can take you.

My name is Thaidakar the Ghostblood, and thank you for coming to my ted talk.

One last note: I know this seems like a lot, but can you see where I am coming from? This may seem overboard. I know. I went over this a lot of times and this seems to be the very best way to solve it. An alternative, so that we can keep the idea of different ranks, what if for the amount of years we've been on, we get a different rank? I was going to say posts, but that also has the potential of going into the same thing I'm trying to avoid by suggesting this. Say, the first six months we get the rank of Doug. For a full year, we get the rank of spren. For two whole years, it could be misting. For three, it could be cognitive shadow. For four, it could be Elantrian. And it could go on and on and on till we get to Adonalsium or God Beyond or anything else. We can keep all the same ranks, even edit them to be a little more rewarding and fun for the people on the Shard, but doing it merely by the amount of time you're on the Shard is far more fair, far more fun for everyone and is not farmable in any way beyond just existing.

[The cheeseman Sola Scriptora. Eddie's a nerd]

I, for one, agree with you. Which is why I am not repping the OP.

In addition, I would like to call out the two people (at the time of posting) who have repped the OP. You, whoever you may be, are engaging with the Shard in exactly the way Thaid says is an issue. You are acknowledging the existence of his post, and, seemingly, agreeing with it. But instead of engaging with it in any meaningful way, you are simply pressing a button and continuing on to surf the interwebs.

Post, reply, engage. Don't just rep.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

5 minutes ago, The cheeseman said:

I, for one, agree with you. Which is why I am not repping the OP.

In addition, I would like to call out the two people (at the time of posting) who have repped the OP. You, whoever you may be, are engaging with the Shard in exactly the way Thaid says is an issue. You are acknowledging the existence of his post, and, seemingly, agreeing with it. But instead of engaging with it in any meaningful way, you are simply pressing a button and continuing on to surf the interwebs.

Post, reply, engage. Don't just rep.

I mean, considering that I'm pretty sure one of them is Aeo, who is a major reason why any of this post exists, I think they can be at least a little bit forgiven.

[Experience he/him]

I repped the post, but I am also responding so fight me.

Yes. reputation really just takes away from the purpose of why I want to be on this forum. Like if I notice that I've gotten a larger amount of rep a certain day and I'm 'close' to being number one for that day, I almost always come up with random things to post (like status updates) to try and get the rep necessary to pass. I know, I could just not do this, but if it wasn't there I wouldn't feel the need to do so. 

But honestly yeah, there are times where I just rep and then don't respond because I agree with someone and it's easier to do that.

The one thing I can think of where it is actually useful is when I'm currently in a conversation with someone and they something I like I rep them because it doesn't make sense to say haha i like that while im in a convo with them ig.

But yeah, honestly if I had the option to just turn rep off for me and not see it that would be enough.

[Treamayne]

I'm confused by your use of SU in this post. Do you mean actual Status Updates (like the things posted in a person's profile) or are you using this to also mean any normal thread interaction. You seem to use SU to mean both, but it is unclear. 

Having never really made, read or responded to an SU (with possible exception for new people posting their list of Cosmere works on their profile instead of an Intro post to avoid spoilers in answers - assuming a profile comment is the same thing as an SU), I can't really comment on how that does or does not function. However:

1 hour ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

Winning the day becomes a reward, winning the day becomes a competition. Does reputation bring some fun? Sure, yeah, but the bad far outweighs the good. Do we honestly need to fight to win a day with how supposedly popular we are? That's pitting us against each other for gaining popularity in a way that has not been fully exploited by people to the extent that it could, but could certainly be more consciously if things continue where we're going.

This, to me seems like the real problem. Keep rep - make it for (non-RP/non-Game) threads only (non-SU or profile interaction, just like there is no PM Rep) and remove the "win the day" and "leaderboard" nonsense. Rep on a thread post does help many of us identify or acknowledge posts that were insightful, helpful and/or "above-par" in some way (helping find a quote or WoB, answering a quesion, correctly spoilering or helping others to correctly cover spoiler material, etc.) Remove the competition and people that want to earn reputation will need to actually put forth effort to interact and be meaningful when doing so. 

1 hour ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

It is better to have a response that is merely "Hey, I like this idea" rather than a voiceless heart and notification.

No, I do not think it is. Having one or many "me too" and "like" posts doesn't really add anything to a conversation except more scrolling. Though, I would like it if, now that negative rep is long gone, they brought back rep attribution (so we know who responded in that manner) Example: It would be good to know if one of the "rep" responses here was the OP (acknowledging the answer) or if that Sharder has not yet seen the response to their question. An example from another forum that I think does this well:

Spoiler

Also, please note that we may (in theory) have more reactions than just a heart. Depending on what those are, they make this more (or less) relevant and useful.

Reference: This thread and poll

Edited May 26 by Treamayne
SPAG

[RoyalBeeMage he/him]

1 hour ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

An alternative, so that we can keep the idea of different ranks, what if for the amount of years we've been on, we get a different rank? I was going to say posts, but that also has the potential of going into the same thing I'm trying to avoid by suggesting this. Say, the first six months we get the rank of Doug. For a full year, we get the rank of spren. For two whole years, it could be misting. For three, it could be cognitive shadow. For four, it could be Elantrian. And it could go on and on and on till we get to Adonalsium or God Beyond or anything else. We can keep all the same ranks, even edit them to be a little more rewarding and fun for the people on the Shard, but doing it merely by the amount of time you're on the Shard is far more fair, far more fun for everyone and is not farmable in any way beyond just existing.

A possible alternative to this idea is days online. This could potentially encourage more people to spend time on the shard interacting and engaging with others

6 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I'm confused by your use of SU in this post. Do you mean actual Status Updates (like the things posted in a person's profile) or are you using this to also mean any normal thread interaction. You seem to use SU to mean both, but it is unclear. 

Having never really made, read or responded to an SU (with possible exception for new people posting their list of Cosmere works on their profile instead of an Intro post to avoid spoilers in answers - assuming a profile comment is the same thing as an SU), I can't really comment on how that does or does not function. However:

This, to me seems like the real problem. Keep rep - make it for (non-RP/non-Game) threads only (non-SU or profile interaction, just like there is no PM Rep) and remove the "win the day" and "leaderboard" nonsense. Rep on a thread post does help many of us identify or acknowledge posts that were insightful, helpful and/or "above-par" in some way (helping find a quote or WoB, answering a quesion, correctly spoilering or helping others to correctly cover spoiler material, etc.) Remove the competition and people that want to earn reputation will need to actually put forth effort to interact and be meaningful when doing so. 

No, I do not think it is. Having one or many "me too" and "like" posts doesn't really add anything to a conversation except more scrolling. Though, I would like it if, now that negative rep is long gone, they brought back rep attribution (so we know who responded in that manner) Example: It would be good to know if one of the "rep" responses here was the OP (acknowledging the answer) or if that Sharder has not yet seen the response to their question. An example from another forum that I think does this well:

  Hide contents

Also, please note that we may (in theory) have more reactions than just a heart. Depending on what those are, they make this more (or less) relevant and useful.

I like your idea of different types of rep points. I am thinking that if instead of a heart we have more Sanderson related things like a spren, metal symbols or a stick.

[Mr. Misting he/him]

I agree with this argument full heartedly. I left the shard a year and a half ago, in large part because I felt I wasn’t as cool. I would be posting similar things to others, and getting less rep, and feeling like I had less important or witty things to say. I’ve never won the day, but I seems like I can look at anyone who’s spent time on the shard, and see they have. It feels like I’m doing something wrong.

Part of me leaving was that I didn’t have my crap together, life wise. And I’d think I care less about rep than I did then. But it can still hurt.

I worry rep can feel like barrier to entry for newer sharders. I see some new people who gets crazy amounts of rep, but for most, it’s easy to look at the leaderboards and see your absence.

I don’t know if completely scrapping rep is the move as I agree with Treamayne that rep can have value, and I really like some of the proposed options. Another option could be cutting win the day and leaderboards but keeping ranks. Then hide the number of reps someone has, so someone can see how experienced someone is, without feeling the number gap. And at that point, you could even have rank be based on some mix of rep and days spent, allowing for different kinds of contributions to rank people up.

There are a lot of options of ways to improve. But I think it’s definitely important to discuss.

Edited June 5 by Mr. Misting

[BlueWildRye he/him]

I definitely agree with Treamayne that we shouldn't remove the "like" button entirely, and I don't think the rank changing for how many years you've been on is a good idea either (the time frame just doesn't work, like if you're an Elantrian after 4 years, and the site has been around for maybe 14-15 years, then either you are a God Beyond after 14 years or nobody is a God Beyond because it would be more like 30 years. But for the most part, I do agree with Thaid.

Spoiler

Also I only just now learned what rep even was lol

 

Edited May 26 by BlueWildRye

[Treamayne]

10 minutes ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

I am thinking that if instead of a heart we have more Sanderson related things like a spren, metal symbols or a stick.

While that would be nice, I think it is also unlikely. An admin (potential upgrades section of the announcement) mentioned before that the reason why the icon changed from the (former) up arrow to a heart is because the back end software has this process built in. That was why we may get more "reactions" because once the site upgrade is stable and the admins have time to work with/test some of the new features - it is something they might "turn on" (but would still be limited to what the back-end forum software supports - presumably icon responses such as "like this," "thank you," "I agree" etc.). 

I do not think they can change the picture associated with those reactions, however. 

[Aeoryi she/her]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Misting said:

Another option could be cutting win the day and leaderboards but keeping ranks. Then hide the number of reps someone has, so someone can see how experienced someone is, without feeling the number gap. And at that point, you could even have rank be based on some mix of rep and days spent, allowing for different kinds of contributions to rank people up.

I think that the leaderboard really needs to go; I think everyone agrees it isn't the best influence for people here, and I don't think anyone cares THAT much about it, but I understand people wanting to keep rep. Hiding the number of reps is also a very good idea, because it removes the idea that we are all comparatively worse/better than other people based on their rep, but it still leaves rep on a personal level, meaning things like rep farming (which is illegal, don't do it) and people linking their emotional state to rep (another big issue) is still going to be a problem. That's why I believe the most straightforward solution is to remove rep entirely, or maybe just for the Community and Status Updates parts of the shard. 

48 minutes ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

A possible alternative to this idea is days online. This could potentially encourage more people to spend time on the shard interacting and engaging with others

I think the idea of "How old is your account" as a way to measure rep is better than "How often have you been on the shard" because it makes people have a sense of pride and doesn't make people feel isolated upon returning, although this really isn't too big of an issue and doesn't matter that much to me tbh.

51 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

No, I do not think it is. Having one or many "me too" and "like" posts doesn't really add anything to a conversation except more scrolling. Though, I would like it if, now that negative rep is long gone, they brought back rep attribution (so we know who responded in that manner) Example: It would be good to know if one of the "rep" responses here was the OP (acknowledging the answer) or if that Sharder has not yet seen the response to their question. An example from another forum that I think does this well:

I think the more important thing to note here is that people can choose to express their appreciation or not, and people will be less likely to make a post that says, "Thanks!" and yes, it can make things a whole lot longer than they need to be, but that's not really a realistic problem as a lot of people will choose to remain silent in the first place.

52 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

This, to me seems like the real problem. Keep rep - make it for (non-RP/non-Game) threads only (non-SU or profile interaction, just like there is no PM Rep) and remove the "win the day" and "leaderboard" nonsense. Rep on a thread post does help many of us identify or acknowledge posts that were insightful, helpful and/or "above-par" in some way (helping find a quote or WoB, answering a quesion, correctly spoilering or helping others to correctly cover spoiler material, etc.) Remove the competition and people that want to earn reputation will need to actually put forth effort to interact and be meaningful when doing so. 

I think this is a better approach. I do believe the issue is only regarding status updates and primarily the Community section of the shard (General discussion, Forum Games, creator's corner, guilds clans and social groups, and of course, RP) and removing it there would probably achieve the same outcome. Rep can be useful, and in my opinion the people in the discussion boards tend to deserve it sometimes it's not always a harmful thing there. 

As I've said previously, the leaderboard and days won things need to go.

55 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I'm confused by your use of SU in this post. Do you mean actual Status Updates (like the things posted in a person's profile) or are you using this to also mean any normal thread interaction. You seem to use SU to mean both, but it is unclear. 

Having never really made, read or responded to an SU (with possible exception for new people posting their list of Cosmere works on their profile instead of an Intro post to avoid spoilers in answers - assuming a profile comment is the same thing as an SU), I can't really comment on how that does or does not function. However:

SUs, or Status Updates, are primarily my concern, although as I have mentioned prior, the community section of the forums also has this issue. Status updates are the real deal with this proposal. They normally have nothing to do with book discussion (that takes place primarily on discussion boards) and are normally just a popularity competition, or just a (IMO) rep farm.

the term SU refers only to Status Updates, but it's mentioned that the solution should also extend to the community section of the forums.

1 hour ago, Experience said:

Yes. reputation really just takes away from the purpose of why I want to be on this forum. Like if I notice that I've gotten a larger amount of rep a certain day and I'm 'close' to being number one for that day, I almost always come up with random things to post (like status updates) to try and get the rep necessary to pass. I know, I could just not do this, but if it wasn't there I wouldn't feel the need to do so. 

But honestly yeah, there are times where I just rep and then don't respond because I agree with someone and it's easier to do that.

The one thing I can think of where it is actually useful is when I'm currently in a conversation with someone and they something I like I rep them because it doesn't make sense to say haha i like that while im in a convo with them ig.

But yeah, honestly if I had the option to just turn rep off for me and not see it that would be enough.

This could be another solution, although it doesn't solve the problem; it just removes it for you. I can bring up a few cases where rep has been a direct issue if people would like, but I don't think that's a fix that will work to solve the problem overall.

1 hour ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

I mean, considering that I'm pretty sure one of them is Aeo, who is a major reason why any of this post exists, I think they can be at least a little bit forgiven.

(It is me, I would never be able to do this myself and I respect you for being able to do it)

Anything else? I think I addressed it all

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

I'm confused by your use of SU in this post. Do you mean actual Status Updates (like the things posted in a person's profile) or are you using this to also mean any normal thread interaction. You seem to use SU to mean both, but it is unclear. 

Having never really made, read or responded to an SU (with possible exception for new people posting their list of Cosmere works on their profile instead of an Intro post to avoid spoilers in answers - assuming a profile comment is the same thing as an SU), I can't really comment on how that does or does not function. However:

SUs are Status Updates. I use them as the major example because the way SUs are and the way they have been used are specifically in line with the issues I have with reputation points. There are tens of SUs posted every single day, which is not a bad thing, but it can turn into a sort of competition when it should never be that. 

1 hour ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

A possible alternative to this idea is days online. This could potentially encourage more people to spend time on the shard interacting and engaging with others

I like your idea of different types of rep points. I am thinking that if instead of a heart we have more Sanderson related things like a spren, metal symbols or a stick.

I don't like the idea of it being based on days online. That could also turn into a similar thing to when someone posts merely to get reputation points. It turns it into a sort of game.

Based on what people have been saying, I would revise my opinion to say that we should not remove reputation, but we should remove leaderboards, we should remove ranks, we should remove counting reputation outside of individual points and those reputation on the individual posts should not be restricted to a one size fits all format so as to give more of an actual interaction rather than an acknowledgement. My primary issue is when we are counting reputation/likes/whatever.

The year idea was to make it where we still have the ranks, but they are not based upon anything that we can directly affect by farming. Days active can be manipulated, a set time frame is not. It could be based on months, perhaps even weeks at first, I don't give a crap about what timeframe is put upon when you move ranks. I am not thinking about how soon we can get these ranks, however, but I am thinking about when we get loads of more people, when the adaptations come and fans swoop in by the day. The Cosmere won't die anytime soon. We'll be getting those higher ranks at some point, if that's even important at all (I don't think it is).

[Experience he/him]

One thing to note about having equivilent to streaks is that some people will just end up logging on each day just for the streak when they wouldn't normally be doing so, probably not what we want. For the people that are on every day already, people tend to know who they are.

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

This feels more like a culture problem than one inherent to rep for me.

1 hour ago, The cheeseman said:

In addition, I would like to call out the two people (at the time of posting) who have repped the OP. You, whoever you may be, are engaging with the Shard in exactly the way Thaid says is an issue. You are acknowledging the existence of his post, and, seemingly, agreeing with it. But instead of engaging with it in any meaningful way, you are simply pressing a button and continuing on to surf the interwebs.

Post, reply, engage. Don't just rep.

I don't think shaming people for upvoting things is a helpful contribution to this discussion. Let's refrain from doing that in the future. 

For some people it is a contest, or linked to their sense of self-worth - but that's hardly unique to reputation points. People struggling with their mental health have done this for longer than the internet has existed, and will often simply move on to doing it with something else if things change. I know; I've been there in the past, I've felt eager to get more rep because it made teenage me feel accomplished to have Internet Points. If any of the system is kept at all, people will still do this. If none of it is kept, people will still do this based on how much other engagement their posts get. Ultimately it needs to be solved at the root - their mental health stabilizing and finding other means of validation and internal self-worth - which is easier said than done, but I do believe these behaviors aren't problems caused by rep, just ones that react to it. 

Not everyone sees upvotes the same way as outlined here, either. It's a good way of agreeing with or expressing approval of something without making an entire post; sometimes you just don't have anything significant to say, and don't want to needlessly clutter the thread. I think rep is useful for that. 

I wouldn't be totally against removing the win the day thing or freezing it or something, or making numbers fully invisible and just titles show if that's possible. We can consider some of the solutions proposed in this thread, it's something to think on. I've been starting to work on a rep title overhaul, so this is one more thing to consider there. 

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

I do not think they can change the picture associated with those reactions, however. 

I'm not an admin so don't know exactly what our capabilities are, but I believe we do have the ability to add a few different reactions with our own chosen emojis, similar to Discord reactions. 

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

39 minutes ago, AonEne said:

This feels more like a culture problem than one inherent to rep for me.

For some people it is a contest, or linked to their sense of self-worth - but that's hardly unique to reputation points. People struggling with their mental health have done this for longer than the internet has existed, and will often simply move on to doing it with something else if things change. I know; I've been there in the past, I've felt eager to get more rep because it made teenage me feel accomplished to have Internet Points. If any of the system is kept at all, people will still do this. If none of it is kept, people will still do this based on how much other engagement their posts get. Ultimately it needs to be solved at the root - their mental health stabilizing and finding other means of validation and internal self-worth - which is easier said than done, but I do believe these behaviors aren't problems caused by rep, just ones that react to it. 

Not everyone sees upvotes the same way as outlined here, either. It's a good way of agreeing with or expressing approval of something without making an entire post; sometimes you just don't have anything significant to say, and don't want to needlessly clutter the thread. I think rep is useful for that. 

I wouldn't be totally against removing the win the day thing or freezing it or something, or making numbers fully invisible and just titles show if that's possible. We can consider some of the solutions proposed in this thread, it's something to think on. I've been starting to work on a rep title overhaul, so this is one more thing to consider there. 

The main issue is the comparisons. Yes, it is a cultural thing, yes there will still come the level of engagement. However, will it be as bad as with rep? I think both yes and no. It ultimately comes to how the culture of the Shard rolls with it. I do believe that people will be forced to talk more if the whole of reputation is removed. However, I do think that a lot of the issues with reputation is removed when the counting of reputation (whether that be ranks, winning the day, leaderboards or whatever else) outside of individual posts is gone and the kind of reactions we can give are varied. Those are the things that I do really think at least need to be considered. Not every issue is gone with those things, but what it does do is very much minimize the issues with reputation points in particular. Yes, some of these issues are deeper, but we can't change a lot of those things. What we can do is lessen the effect of the Shard on those things, even if we cannot remove it entirely.

[SmilingPanda19 of the female/variety]

9 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

Reputation is bad for the culture of the Shard. If we continue with the current system, we will be continually shying away from the purpose of the Shard. I admit I am a part of this and have encouraged a lot of it unconsciously, but this is where I say that I change. 

(Before I get into the main body of this, I would just like to acknowledge that the moment I understood this all truly and actually had any of these ideas was when I had a conversation with @Aeoryi. Without Aeo, I probably wouldn't have seen any of this and wouldn't be writing this post rn.)

The purpose of the Shard is to talk to one another about books, to roleplay, to chat with people with similar interests. Rep replaces any of the discussion, rep, in my experience, has been simply a hollow way of saying that you acknowledge something without truly giving any real indication. Rep is there to say that we like something. But what if you do not have as much rep? But what if you post something and it only gets one or two reputation and no-one responds? Think about it. It would be a billion times more meaningful if those were genuine responses. What do we gain from merely an upvote? It is better to have a response that is merely "Hey, I like this idea" rather than a voiceless heart and notification. It is typically a fact that if there are responses to an SU, then more people will take notice and look into it. Actually discussing things rather than simply acknowledging the post's existence. 

In my time on the Shard, I have noticed that people, and even myself, have put stock in reputation points. The idea that we get ranked higher because we are more "popular" hits wrong to me and has for several others. I, more than a lot of people, do like to watch a number go up, but if that number is based on just general popularity of your posts, then is that really doing more help than harm? If you are a sharder who makes such posts that don't garner responses or rep, then is it really good if you go and see that the other guy got, say, six rep for one sentence. If reputation means something to people, then is ranking someone who has higher rep a good idea? Really?

If we put stock in rep, then we seek it whether we like it or not. If there is rep on a status update, people will read it more likely. Reputation sets posts aside for special interest above other posts. In a big algorithmic place like YouTube, this works really well. The Shard is not YouTube. There is no real point to the rep system beyond saying that x post is better than y post. In a community where we want to be accepting of all people, where we want to have a diversity of opinion, whether that opinion is "popular" or not (I know, my fellow conservatives, I used the d word. Relax), do we really want to do that? It should not matter how many likes a post has for people to look at it, this sets a precedent that what matters more is how many people saw it and liked it rather than the actual merits of the post itself. 

Winning the day becomes a reward, winning the day becomes a competition. Does reputation bring some fun? Sure, yeah, but the bad far outweighs the good. Do we honestly need to fight to win a day with how supposedly popular we are? That's pitting us against each other for gaining popularity in a way that has not been fully exploited by people to the extent that it could, but could certainly be more consciously if things continue where we're going. People get a lot o rep because they like to say stuff, namely in status updates. I am one of those people. But here is the thing, the point of those SUs is not to gain rep, it's to chat with similar people! I'm saying all this because I never want it to turn into something else, which is more likely to happen over time with the influx of people that will come whenever we get an adaptation, or as Brandon's popularity gains speed.

My vision for the Shard is that we eliminate reputation points, we eliminate the ranking system, we eliminate the idea of posts with those markers that you get for having a certain amount of rep. Instead, the only mark of a post being "liked" is by the replies, by the people quoting the post in a topic, by people genuinely talking to each other and engaging in conversation. What are we here on the Shard to do, after all, if not to talk to eachother about things we are passionate about? Building a reputation around how many likes you get will not get you anywhere, but building a reputation on discussion, being genuine and building other people up will take you farther than any road can take you.

My name is Thaidakar the Ghostblood, and thank you for coming to my ted talk.

One last note: I know this seems like a lot, but can you see where I am coming from? This may seem overboard. I know. I went over this a lot of times and this seems to be the very best way to solve it. An alternative, so that we can keep the idea of different ranks, what if for the amount of years we've been on, we get a different rank? I was going to say posts, but that also has the potential of going into the same thing I'm trying to avoid by suggesting this. Say, the first six months we get the rank of Doug. For a full year, we get the rank of spren. For two whole years, it could be misting. For three, it could be cognitive shadow. For four, it could be Elantrian. And it could go on and on and on till we get to Adonalsium or God Beyond or anything else. We can keep all the same ranks, even edit them to be a little more rewarding and fun for the people on the Shard, but doing it merely by the amount of time you're on the Shard is far more fair, far more fun for everyone and is not farmable in any way beyond just existing.

I agree, but personally I don’t see popularity as a bad thing. As long as is doesn’t become addictive for the individual.

[alder24]

I don’t agree with this idea. Yes, I agree there is a problem with overexploiting the reputation system - mainly the leaderboard - but the reputation points themselves are a valuable tool of expressing gratitude and appreciation that are needed. I think that this is more of an individual problem than the problem with the reputation system itself. Most people probably don’t compete for rep points and treat it as a tool.

I don’t like writing useless things, I don’t like repeating the same stuff that was written before by someone else. If I don’t have anything new to add to a discussion, I don’t write a post. It’s much better to just give a rep point and engage when I have something new or interesting to add to a conversation. Writing “I like this/I agree” adds nothing of value, nor is it engaging in a discussion. Not everyone has to have something to say, but they still want to show their gratitude in some way. You don’t have to write a lengthy essay to engage in a conversation. Giving a rep point serves the same purpose, but it’s a cleaner way of showing appreciation.

Just imagine a popular and interesting theory with no rep - most of the posts would be “I like it” with barely any new perspective brought to the discussion. It’s not a conversation, it's a spam in which insightful comments disappear. Having to scroll through 2 pages of “Hey, I like this idea" removes most of the potential participants from this conversation as they simply can’t find proper responses, or don’t want to waste time scrolling through all those posts that add nothing new. I don’t want to say that those posts aren’t appreciated, they are, but only in moderation. A few people saying “I like this idea” is good, but if there is no other way of showing appreciation, then it turns into a spam when everyone does this. This isn’t a solution for problems with reputation, it’s replacing them with an even bigger problem. 

I don’t read SU, I don’t spend much time in the lower section of the forum, I mainly engaged in the Cosmere area, so I don’t know how much broken reputation is in SU, but I can see it clearly from the leaderboard, seeing the same person winning every day for a month straight. Does this bother me? Nope. I don’t really care about the leaderboard that much, it brings some fun, it's an interesting tidbit to me when I’m bored, but that’s it. I did win a few days, which I’ve learned weeks later and my reaction to this was “huh, nice” and then I kept going with my day, forgetting about it. I don’t feel any need to compete to win a day, to get the most likes to show up in the leaderboard, to write posts specifically to win a day, or anything like that. There is no urge to compete within me and I think most people on this forum feel the same. There is a short moment of “nice” when I show up in the leaderboard, but nothing of real value to me.

If you think that winning a day becomes an unhealthy competition, then the problem isn’t with  the reputation system itself, but with the leaderboard. Just remove it. We won’t lose anything important, just a one minute of feeling nice because you’ve won another day, but it will remove all this unnecessary rivalry from the Shard. But reputation points are still a great tool to have and getting rid of them will be more harmful than beneficial. Engaging in discussion is fun and great, it’s the main purpose of the Shard, but not everyone has time to spend half a day on the forum reading and responding to all new threads, not everyone have something new to say, many of what you want to say was already said by someone else, so writing a post isn’t needed to engage in conversation, giving rep points is a valid way of engagement and showing appreciation. Removing that takes away a way for many people to engage. 

Removing rep points from SUs seems like a good idea, but I don’t read those so I can’t really say much about it. For me, SUs feel more personal and restricted to a closer group of friends and observers. It’s much easier to get a rep point for writing anything in SU. It’s not the content that matters, it’s the person that’s writing it, so it’s easy to “farm” rep points, even if that’s not your intention. I feel that treating SUs more like PMs and disabling rep points there is a fair approach. You will get more engagement you want with no rep points. But again, I don’t spend time there to contribute a valuable opinion to that aspect of this problem.

9 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Though, I would like it if, now that negative rep is long gone, they brought back rep attribution (so we know who responded in that manner) Example: It would be good to know if one of the "rep" responses here was the OP (acknowledging the answer) or if that Sharder has not yet seen the response to their question.

I don’t agree. I think that might lead to a situation when you give rep points to people who gave points to you just to pay them back, rather than to appreciate the content of a post.

8 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

we should remove ranks

No, not ranks, ranks are fun and unique. I don’t think they bring any kind of competition, I haven’t seen any. They should stay, even if my rank would be only visible to me and nobody else, they are just fun in a positive way. 

[Treamayne]

33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I don’t agree. I think that might lead to a situation when you give rep points to people who gave points to you just to pay them back, rather than to appreciate the content of a post.

I can see that (a devolution into a self-licking ice cream ketek koan). At least for some people, but I'm not sure that risk is greater than the benefit of:

• "Sharder X answers [my] question/found the WoB/found the quote/etc. and this mechanism shows Sharder X that have seen and acknowledged their post as a response that met the need."

In the Q&A there is already a (pseudo under/mis utilized) mechanism for this. Unfortunately, many things there aren't really "questions" so much as fishing for theory discussion - and - many threads in the discussion boards are simple questions (that the OP may or may not ever verify if their question has been sufficiently answered). 

There may be no "one-size fits all" solution, but that's why we can discuss and brainstorm in this way to find the "one size fits most" that does not actually harm anybody (hopefully). And on that tangent. . . 

I do not know if it is possible, but it might be nice if Rep could be like Signatures - where individudlas can turn on or off if they display their infor for everybody and whether they see that infor from everybody. It would provide some levels of self-regulation (that, unfortunately would also require some level of self-awareness to realize "having this off is better for me than having it on"). 

Edited May 26 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Koloss17 She/They]

Counterpoint: I really like reputation.

The ranking thing is a large part of what I like about the Shard. Titles associated with how much reputation you have gives you a nice physical indicator that you are “climbing up the social ladder” when it comes to the Shard. In places like Reddit, or practically any other main social media site, reputation is used to determine the validity of an isolated comment, which I personally think is a mixed bag. In a place like this, where it is never about having a “right” opinion or answer, I am very glad we don’t have that system. 
 

And frankly, with how conservative Sharders tend to be with giving rep, and the fact that there is a daily rep giving limit, I feel like I contributed something important whenever someone gives rep to a post. It’s a neat little way of differentiating mediocre posts (which we all have from time to time) from deep, nuanced discussion points. 
 

And I am definitely a tad biased, as the funny little ranks give me joy.

 

And frankly, I wish there was more with reputation. I don’t fully grasp why rep is anonymous, and I really like how discord gives you the names of who have a reaction to a post. That would be a cool way of knowing who liked your contribution. 

[Argenti he/him]

15 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

Reputation is bad for the culture of the Shard. If we continue with the current system, we will be continually shying away from the purpose of the Shard. I admit I am a part of this and have encouraged a lot of it unconsciously, but this is where I say that I change. 

(Before I get into the main body of this, I would just like to acknowledge that the moment I understood this all truly and actually had any of these ideas was when I had a conversation with @Aeoryi. Without Aeo, I probably wouldn't have seen any of this and wouldn't be writing this post rn.)

The purpose of the Shard is to talk to one another about books, to roleplay, to chat with people with similar interests. Rep replaces any of the discussion, rep, in my experience, has been simply a hollow way of saying that you acknowledge something without truly giving any real indication. Rep is there to say that we like something. But what if you do not have as much rep? But what if you post something and it only gets one or two reputation and no-one responds? Think about it. It would be a billion times more meaningful if those were genuine responses. What do we gain from merely an upvote? It is better to have a response that is merely "Hey, I like this idea" rather than a voiceless heart and notification. It is typically a fact that if there are responses to an SU, then more people will take notice and look into it. Actually discussing things rather than simply acknowledging the post's existence. 

In my time on the Shard, I have noticed that people, and even myself, have put stock in reputation points. The idea that we get ranked higher because we are more "popular" hits wrong to me and has for several others. I, more than a lot of people, do like to watch a number go up, but if that number is based on just general popularity of your posts, then is that really doing more help than harm? If you are a sharder who makes such posts that don't garner responses or rep, then is it really good if you go and see that the other guy got, say, six rep for one sentence. If reputation means something to people, then is ranking someone who has higher rep a good idea? Really?

If we put stock in rep, then we seek it whether we like it or not. If there is rep on a status update, people will read it more likely. Reputation sets posts aside for special interest above other posts. In a big algorithmic place like YouTube, this works really well. The Shard is not YouTube. There is no real point to the rep system beyond saying that x post is better than y post. In a community where we want to be accepting of all people, where we want to have a diversity of opinion, whether that opinion is "popular" or not (I know, my fellow conservatives, I used the d word. Relax), do we really want to do that? It should not matter how many likes a post has for people to look at it, this sets a precedent that what matters more is how many people saw it and liked it rather than the actual merits of the post itself. 

Winning the day becomes a reward, winning the day becomes a competition. Does reputation bring some fun? Sure, yeah, but the bad far outweighs the good. Do we honestly need to fight to win a day with how supposedly popular we are? That's pitting us against each other for gaining popularity in a way that has not been fully exploited by people to the extent that it could, but could certainly be more consciously if things continue where we're going. People get a lot o rep because they like to say stuff, namely in status updates. I am one of those people. But here is the thing, the point of those SUs is not to gain rep, it's to chat with similar people! I'm saying all this because I never want it to turn into something else, which is more likely to happen over time with the influx of people that will come whenever we get an adaptation, or as Brandon's popularity gains speed.

My vision for the Shard is that we eliminate reputation points, we eliminate the ranking system, we eliminate the idea of posts with those markers that you get for having a certain amount of rep. Instead, the only mark of a post being "liked" is by the replies, by the people quoting the post in a topic, by people genuinely talking to each other and engaging in conversation. What are we here on the Shard to do, after all, if not to talk to eachother about things we are passionate about? Building a reputation around how many likes you get will not get you anywhere, but building a reputation on discussion, being genuine and building other people up will take you farther than any road can take you.

My name is Thaidakar the Ghostblood, and thank you for coming to my ted talk.

One last note: I know this seems like a lot, but can you see where I am coming from? This may seem overboard. I know. I went over this a lot of times and this seems to be the very best way to solve it. An alternative, so that we can keep the idea of different ranks, what if for the amount of years we've been on, we get a different rank? I was going to say posts, but that also has the potential of going into the same thing I'm trying to avoid by suggesting this. Say, the first six months we get the rank of Doug. For a full year, we get the rank of spren. For two whole years, it could be misting. For three, it could be cognitive shadow. For four, it could be Elantrian. And it could go on and on and on till we get to Adonalsium or God Beyond or anything else. We can keep all the same ranks, even edit them to be a little more rewarding and fun for the people on the Shard, but doing it merely by the amount of time you're on the Shard is far more fair, far more fun for everyone and is not farmable in any way beyond just existing.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from, but also, I really don't agree. I use rep, often when I agree with an idea, I just dint have anything to add to the conversation. I've never won the day, despite having a fair amount of rep, and being on here for almost 2 years now, but I'm not annoyed by it. Rep, used in threads is a consensus, saying I like this. And replacing it with a seniority based on age idea is just bad, that makes the issue much worse. In order to get to a cool rank, you should have been here 7 years ago, which to me at least, feel more hostile than essentially liking a post.

[Through The Living Glass She/Her]

*wants to give rep to everything in this thread but holds back*

Okay, having read through this all, I have some things to say.

Also, please feel free to criticize whatever I say. This is just my opinion, and I'm eager to learn more about y'alls' individual standings on this whole thing.

1. I agree, the leaderboard has to go. I've seen myself get close to getting first a couple times, which got me excited and made me want to post more things to get more rep. Granted, I never did end up posting simply for the rep as that's not why I'm a part of this community, but I can say with absolute surety that some people have. That being said, I do enjoy seeing what the most liked posts (as are shown daily beneath the leaderboard). I think that if we got rid of the leaderboard that showcased individual rep and replaced it with the leaderboard for the most liked post(s) of the day, it would be far less competitive but still provide a fun and interesting alternative for people to explore. Ideally, there wouldn't be any designated 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place, only the most liked post of the day, and after the day is over all of the data would be erased and we would start fresh the next day. I realize that they're basically the same thing, but the whole 'win the day' thing also needs to go. It just seems really unnecessarily competitive and takes away from the whole basis of why the Shard is here in the first place.

2. I actually think we should keep rep. To me, rep is a way to tell people that they've said or created something I find meaningful, and gaining rep tells me that someone finds something I posted to be meaningful. I use rep so I can show my appreciation for something without writing out a short and basic post that would tell them the exact same thing. If I have strong feelings about something, then I'll write out a longer post explaining why I feel that way, but I simply don't see a reason to get rid of rep as long as it replaces the need to write out a basic response. That being said, I do like the idea of different reactions aside from the singular heart button we have now. I think that the basic thumbs up, thumbs down, laughing face, sad face, and heart emojis that other platforms use are a much better way to convey how you feel about something without commenting directly on it, and that we should use something like them.

3. I do think we should keep ranks. I don't have a ton to say on this, but I do enjoy them. It's fun when I get a new rank, but it's also not something I'm super invested in. When I get a new rank, I'll just be like "oh, that's cool," post something funny about it on the Stupid Ranks Thread, and move on. It's not really something I look forward to, and it's definitely not something I try to work towards. It's just fun, and to me it doesn't take away from my Shard experience at all.

4. I don't agree with the idea of replacing rep status with account age status, or even account activity status. Gaining status for contributions to the community seems better than gaining status for just basically existing. Say there is someone who really wants to be a part of the community, and they post a lot and are super active, versus someone who made an account six months ago and has only posted a single thing since then. These two people will have the same rank, even though one has put so much more time into the Shard than the other. Seems kind of weird, doesn't it, that someone who loves the Shard has the same rank as someone who's been almost completely inactive? And just because they joined at the same time?

So yeah. That's my two cents' worth.

Edited May 26 by Through The Living Glass

[Immortal Platypus]

3 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

Counterpoint: I really like reputation.

The ranking thing is a large part of what I like about the Shard. Titles associated with how much reputation you have gives you a nice physical indicator that you are “climbing up the social ladder” when it comes to the Shard. In places like Reddit, or practically any other main social media site, reputation is used to determine the validity of an isolated comment, which I personally think is a mixed bag. In a place like this, where it is never about having a “right” opinion or answer, I am very glad we don’t have that system. 
 

And frankly, with how conservative Sharders tend to be with giving rep, and the fact that there is a daily rep giving limit, I feel like I contributed something important whenever someone gives rep to a post. It’s a neat little way of differentiating mediocre posts (which we all have from time to time) from deep, nuanced discussion points. 
 

And I am definitely a tad biased, as the funny little ranks give me joy.

 

And frankly, I wish there was more with reputation. I don’t fully grasp why rep is anonymous, and I really like how discord gives you the names of who have a reaction to a post. That would be a cool way of knowing who liked your contribution. 

counter-counter point: I too like rep. But it has some serious flaws.

A fairly significant part of your premise is found in the second paragraph. "And frankly, with how conservative Sharders tend to be with giving rep" is not an entirely accurate statement. This is not entirely true. I know that several people run out of rep multiple times a week. I've seen posts about upping the rep limit. Now compare these people to me. If we went through all the rep I've given in my entire year and a half ish on the shard, it would probably be less than 100, almost assuredly less than 150. 

Addressing your first paragraph, the point about "climbing the social ladder" is also not entirely correct. I don't have a ton of rep (and I don't really care how much I have), but I would say that climbing the social ladder is not a great way to put it. For example, I would guess that most of the rep comes from SUs and RPs. Some people don't use those very often, or at all, instead spending their time in the Q&A or Discussion areas. These people have an inherent disadvantage when it comes to gaining rep. Compare that to someone who doesn't spend time in Q&A or Discussion at all, and instead is in RPs and AMAs and SUs. They have more rep, but that doesn't meant that the person in Q&A is lower on the social ladder, just that they hang out in different circles (which is fine). 

(I too love the ranks.)

IMO, we should have a couple different rep systems (one for RPs, one for Q&As/Discussions, etc.). We could also take down leaderboards/winning the day. This is a very tricky topic with a lot of nuance to it, and I'm sure the mod team will put thought into it, and if we see a change, I'm sure they'll explain it, if we don't, I'm still sure they'll explain it.

[Koloss17 She/They]

3 hours ago, Immortal Platypus said:

 

Addressing your first paragraph, the point about "climbing the social ladder" is also not entirely correct. I don't have a ton of rep (and I don't really care how much I have), but I would say that climbing the social ladder is not a great way to put it. For example, I would guess that most of the rep comes from SUs and RPs. Some people don't use those very often, or at all, instead spending their time in the Q&A or Discussion areas. These people have an inherent disadvantage when it comes to gaining rep. Compare that to someone who doesn't spend time in Q&A or Discussion at all, and instead is in RPs and AMAs and SUs. They have more rep, but that doesn't meant that the person in Q&A is lower on the social ladder, just that they hang out in different circles (which is fine). 

It obviously depends person to person. However, I would argue that getting rep from roleplaying is climbing the social ladder. Same with posting art of any form. It is actively supporting the community, and it is socializing in a way that the theory boards don’t. And I mean, it depends on who you interact with. I am the current mod of the Alleyverse RP, and rep is not often doled. Do I wish is was given more? Actually, yeah. Again, I see it as a pat on the back for contributing something valuable to the thread. 
 

and I would not particularly say that having more rep than someone means that you are higher up socially than them, but that the act of gaining rep, if rep acts as a “you did good *pat* *pat*,” means that you are at the very least slightly higher up the ladder than you were before, as people are recognizing and appreciating your contributions.

[Immortal Platypus]

3 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

It obviously depends person to person. However, I would argue that getting rep from roleplaying is climbing the social ladder. Same with posting art of any form. It is actively supporting the community, and it is socializing in a way that the theory boards don’t. And I mean, it depends on who you interact with. I am the current mod of the Alleyverse RP, and rep is not often doled. Do I wish is was given more? Actually, yeah. Again, I see it as a pat on the back for contributing something valuable to the thread. 
 

and I would not particularly say that having more rep than someone means that you are higher up socially than them, but that the act of gaining rep, if rep acts as a “you did good *pat* *pat*,” means that you are at the very least slightly higher up the ladder than you were before, as people are recognizing and appreciating your contributions.

That's what I'm saying. "Getting rep from roleplaying" is climbing a social ladder. But what about the people who don't RP? That's why I think there should be a couple different rep systems

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

25 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I do not know if it is possible, but it might be nice if Rep could be like Signatures - where individudlas can turn on or off if they display their infor for everybody and whether they see that infor from everybody. It would provide some levels of self-regulation (that, unfortunately would also require some level of self-awareness to realize "having this off is better for me than having it on"). 

I like this idea a lot.If we do keep reputation over all, add the other sorts of reactions, but implement this, then I would be more fine with reputation's existence. I really dislike how fundamental reputation has sort of been for the Shard experience. It should be very very very secondary and more ignorable than the majority of people I have in interacted with on the Shard have made it out to be.

57 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No, not ranks, ranks are fun and unique. I don’t think they bring any kind of competition, I haven’t seen any. They should stay, even if my rank would be only visible to me and nobody else, they are just fun in a positive way. 

21 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Counterpoint: I really like reputation.

The ranking thing is a large part of what I like about the Shard. Titles associated with how much reputation you have gives you a nice physical indicator that you are “climbing up the social ladder” when it comes to the Shard. In places like Reddit, or practically any other main social media site, reputation is used to determine the validity of an isolated comment, which I personally think is a mixed bag. In a place like this, where it is never about having a “right” opinion or answer, I am very glad we don’t have that system. 
 

And frankly, with how conservative Sharders tend to be with giving rep, and the fact that there is a daily rep giving limit, I feel like I contributed something important whenever someone gives rep to a post. It’s a neat little way of differentiating mediocre posts (which we all have from time to time) from deep, nuanced discussion points. 
 

And I am definitely a tad biased, as the funny little ranks give me joy.

 

And frankly, I wish there was more with reputation. I don’t fully grasp why rep is anonymous, and I really like how discord gives you the names of who have a reaction to a post. That would be a cool way of knowing who liked your contribution. 

 

Climbing the social ladder? Perhaps, but what about the people who don't receive as much rep as the rest of us? What about the people who don't do the things that get you more rep? Are they not deserving of "climbing the social ladder"? I merely think that the idea of getting ranked higher than other people to be a little flawed of an idea in and of itself. The same exact issues that exist with a rep count exist with a clearly telegraphed ranking system. At least, my issues with a universal rep count still exist with a ranking system. However, if we do a new set of ranks that are closer together and are not brought together in an easily accessed list of what is higher than the other, then I am completely fine with it, I just really do not like the idea of anyone being able to say that they are inherently better than someone else because more people liked their thing. I made the mistake of saying something I didn't mean along those lines and I know that there will be more dumb people besides myself who come along. 

Conservative? bahaha. You clearly do not spend a lot of time in the status update section of the forum. Which isn't a bad thing, just wanna make that clear, but the way I and many others have given rep has been anything but conservative. When it comes to SUs, the thing that gets more rep is something that is either thoughtful, gives an interaction point or is about something important. As someone who posts a status update about every day or so, I can guarantee that it really doesn't matter what it is you say as it is about how you say it that gets you reputation points. I would still say what I say whether or not anyone gave reputation, but one does notice over awhile.

[Koloss17 She/They]

15 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

Conservative? bahaha. You clearly do not spend a lot of time in the status update section of the forum. Which isn't a bad thing, just wanna make that clear, but the way I and many others have given rep has been anything but conservative. When it comes to SUs, the thing that gets more rep is something that is either thoughtful, gives an interaction point or is about something important. As someone who posts a status update about every day or so, I can guarantee that it really doesn't matter what it is you say as it is about how you say it that gets you reputation points. I would still say what I say whether or not anyone gave reputation, but one does notice over awhile.

I mean, keep in mind I’m a tad out of touch with the current going ons of the Shard, as I took a year long break about two years ago (I think), and have only been semi-active ever since, mostly just vibing in the Alleyverse RP forum. So a few years ago, rep was something that was given out decently infrequently. Nowadays, I honestly don’t really know :/.

my bad on that, I’m just now coming to terms with the fact that I’m a bit more of a Shard veteran than I thought I was…