Homebrew Aether creation mass vs water consumption

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

I need to look more at Sandmastery as well to see if there is correlation as I believe that, if not an aether, it could certainly be mimicking one.

But I am curious what peoples thoughts are on how much aether could be created and manipulated per a unit of water?   I know this is purely speculative but I am trying to create rules for a homebrew aetherbound and want to hear opinions. 

I was planning on doing a charge sort of system. Would start with charges and the charges would be able to be refilled via drink and rests. 

Trying to see how much a person with a normal days consumption of water should be able to produce and do. 

My thoughts are that the growth of the aether is the bulk of the water consumption where as maintaining it would be negligible when touching and ramp up gradually at range. 

We didn't see twinsoul do a ton with his aether on his own that seemed beyond what should be standard.  

Looking at something like an artificer I also thought it would be fun to include a way for aetherbound to create larger items that would be able to stay in storage assuming they are in an appropriate setting.  Creating armor and then using charges over a rest or during play to repair it is one idea that comes to mind.  

Progression would probably look like the character being able to use and draw from consumed water better or faster.  Potentially becoming more efficient in terms of growing more Aether for the same water.  Possibly growing the bond and progressing towards the Aether being able to work and steal a charge or two on its own without you needing to grow it. 

Really just curious for ideas at the moment. I would love to hear what thoughts are on how much aether can even be grown via an average hydrated person before death.  

 

Also... perhaps more benefits to walking a line of dehydration? Like the closer you get to the end the more desperate and powerful your attempts and efforts are?  

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I'll throw out some random @'s to see if this can grab a bit of traction.  @Trusk'our @Koloss17 

Edited June 12 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[Koloss17 She/They]

So what RP system are you thinking of balancing this for? I’m not really the best person to ask about this, as I am not super experienced with a variety of different systems, but if it is DM led, asking them about a solid conversion rate might be useful. I suspect that it depends on the aetherbound on how much volume of substance can be created with the same volume of water. However, a standardized “gallon/pint/whatever of water=X square feet/meters of Aether” could be a solution. It can be a bit clunky and requiring imagination, but that’s what happens with something as versatile as an aetherbound.

 

Now, I feel that I would be a bad moderator if I didn’t use this as an opportunity to plug something.

Have you considered joining the Alleyverse RP? I’m the head mod there, and it is a collaborative free form forum RP right here on the Shard! It is based in the Alleyverse, a dimension where all of the different planets and magic systems of Brandon Sanderson (even non-Cosmere!) can slip into. It’s a blast, and we always welcome newcomers! It’s not the same as a TTRPG, but it is very fun if you like the storytelling aspect of roleplay! As an example of the potential here, I currently have an edgedancer that has killed her spren and has since been parasitized by a midnight spore. The possibilities are endless!

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

14 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

So what RP system are you thinking of balancing this for? I’m not really the best person to ask about this, as I am not super experienced with a variety of different systems, but if it is DM led, asking them about a solid conversion rate might be useful. I suspect that it depends on the aetherbound on how much volume of substance can be created with the same volume of water. However, a standardized “gallon/pint/whatever of water=X square feet/meters of Aether” could be a solution. It can be a bit clunky and requiring imagination, but that’s what happens with something as versatile as an aetherbound.

 

Now, I feel that I would be a bad moderator if I didn’t use this as an opportunity to plug something.

Have you considered joining the Alleyverse RP? I’m the head mod there, and it is a collaborative free form forum RP right here on the Shard! It is based in the Alleyverse, a dimension where all of the different planets and magic systems of Brandon Sanderson (even non-Cosmere!) can slip into. It’s a blast, and we always welcome newcomers! It’s not the same as a TTRPG, but it is very fun if you like the storytelling aspect of roleplay! As an example of the potential here, I currently have an edgedancer that has killed her spren and has since been parasitized by a midnight spore. The possibilities are endless!

I have looked at it and should really build something up. I was thinking the bendalloy / aetherbound. I just don't know about balancing it. Its really hard to balance stuff when I know my underlying motives are to pair it with feruchemy for displays magnitudes beyond what a normal being could pull off. Feruchemy feels a bit cheaty. My personal dream combo of aetherbound + bendalloy compounding feels absurdly busted... but I also use it to justify getting as close to Venom in the cosmere as possible (midnight obviously).

As for rules. I want to take ideas from a D&D sort of structure and then I will shift them around to apply to MAG as well. I know the systems are vastly different but trying to find a reasonable starting spot for one would give me a solid starting spot for both. 

 

 

[Treamayne]

I'll leave RP comments to those better suited to discuss them . . . 

Spoiler

My TTRPG experiences are old - started in 1982 with TMNT and other Strangeness - played/GMed mostly Palladium and V&V through the 80s, Played/STed mostly WoD in the 90s* - nothing since about '97.

However, I did want to chime in on one thing:

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I need to look more at Sandmastery as well to see if there is correlation as I believe that, if not an aether, it could certainly be mimicking one.

I do not think that Sand Mastery is an Aether, nor is it mimicking an Aether - but I do think that Sandmastery and Aethers both use the Luhel Bond (and because Sandmastery uses a Luhel bond - stories about that art likely inspired Tress' "Bone Aether" myth because it was a Luhel bond, so they assumed it must be an Aether).

That said, White Sand Omnibus does not give direct correlations, but does mention/show that the amount of Mastered Sand exponentially increases the rate of Water Consumption (controlling three ribbons drained Kenton's water much faster than 3x control of a single ribbon). So, I do not think that a single rate will apply, because bond strength*, bond efficiency, work performed, and qty of material all affected the rate of water consumption while mastering sand (e. g. using three ribbons to create a sand doppleganger did not drain water as fast as using three ribbons to lift the rubble of the broken construction site). 

*Note: Overmastery (if you survive) increased bond strength in White Sand, a similar mechanism was heavily implied with Tress (but obviously was not called "overmastery"). 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

I'll leave RP comments to those better suited to discuss them . . . 

  Reveal hidden contents

My TTRPG experiences are old - started in 1982 with TMNT and other Strangeness - played/GMed mostly Palladium and V&V through the 80s, Played/STed mostly WoD in the 90s* - nothing since about '97.

However, I did want to chime in on one thing:

I do not think that Sand Mastery is an Aether, nor is it mimicking an Aether - but I do think that Sandmastery and Aethers both use the Luhel Bond (and because Sandmastery uses a Luhel bond - stories about that art likely inspired Tress' "Bone Aether" myth because it was a Luhel bond, so they assumed it must be an Aether).

That said, White Sand Omnibus does not give direct correlations, but does mention/show that the amount of Mastered Sand exponentially increases the rate of Water Consumption (controlling three ribbons drained Kenton's water much faster than 3x control of a single ribbon). So, I do not think that a single rate will apply, because bond strength*, bond efficiency, work performed, and qty of material all affected the rate of water consumption while mastering sand (e. g. using three ribbons to create a sand doppleganger did not drain water as fast as using three ribbons to lift the rubble of the broken construction site). 

*Note: Overmastery (if you survive) increased bond strength in White Sand, a similar mechanism was heavily implied with Tress (but obviously was not called "overmastery"). 

Okay. This is good info for me to jump off at. I like the idea that usage is not linear but exponentially increases as you build more.  

Overmastery is basically savantism?  Or seperate?  I think that could be a good way to "level" and gain an edge as you practice more. Now I just need to get a good name for it. Overmastery will probably get plugged in for the time being. 

[Treamayne]

34 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Overmastery is basically savantism?

Not quite - where savantism is a permanent change to the spiritweb (that often reflects in the Cognitive and/or Physical*), overmastery is compared in-world to working out (you lift weights at the edge fo your capability in the hopes that if you do that enough you will be stronger). So, basically you work the bond until you dehydrate and pass out. If you live, when you wake up the bond is slightly stronger and you can do a bit more than you used to do. 

Fake in-world example: If an Aetherbound could make and control 10kg of Aether mass based on the strength of the Aetherbound's bond - then working that mass until exhaustion, (assuming they live and do not burn the bond out completely) they could probably now make and control 25kg of Aether mass. It is implied that each repetition of this process has diminishing returns (e. g. Kenton's second attempt was only 66% as effective as his first accidental Overmastery) so the number of times one can do this is limited. 

*Skipping a lot of nuance thta does not matter for this discussion 

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 6/12/2024 at 2:46 PM, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I need to look more at Sandmastery as well to see if there is correlation as I believe that, if not an aether, it could certainly be mimicking one.

But I am curious what peoples thoughts are on how much aether could be created and manipulated per a unit of water?   I know this is purely speculative but I am trying to create rules for a homebrew aetherbound and want to hear opinions. 

I was planning on doing a charge sort of system. Would start with charges and the charges would be able to be refilled via drink and rests. 

Trying to see how much a person with a normal days consumption of water should be able to produce and do. 

My thoughts are that the growth of the aether is the bulk of the water consumption where as maintaining it would be negligible when touching and ramp up gradually at range. 

We didn't see twinsoul do a ton with his aether on his own that seemed beyond what should be standard.  

Looking at something like an artificer I also thought it would be fun to include a way for aetherbound to create larger items that would be able to stay in storage assuming they are in an appropriate setting.  Creating armor and then using charges over a rest or during play to repair it is one idea that comes to mind.  

Progression would probably look like the character being able to use and draw from consumed water better or faster.  Potentially becoming more efficient in terms of growing more Aether for the same water.  Possibly growing the bond and progressing towards the Aether being able to work and steal a charge or two on its own without you needing to grow it. 

Really just curious for ideas at the moment. I would love to hear what thoughts are on how much aether can even be grown via an average hydrated person before death.  

 

Also... perhaps more benefits to walking a line of dehydration? Like the closer you get to the end the more desperate and powerful your attempts and efforts are?  

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I'll throw out some random @'s to see if this can grab a bit of traction.  @Trusk'our @Koloss17 

Sounds like a really cool idea!

I'd have to really sit down and write up rules for its balance in a TTRPG, but I would venture to guess that it's primary limits would be with one's skill at shaping a complex object, their vitality versus water consumption, and perhaps any Invested fields (natural or artificial) that could aid in supporting Aether construction. 

And especially if you want to add it to a Cosmere game with all Invested abilities involved, there are at least a few Metalborn powers that would begin to unbalance its use. I mean, just one Unsealed Bendalloymind would massively change its power output, so there's that to consider.