What would it be like if anyone could burn atium

[Elite01]

I was reading on the coppermind and found this quote 

Quote

Brandon has stated that, since writing Mistborn Era 1, he has wished he made atium usable by all Allomancers as it "feels off" that a God Metal is only usable by Mistborn (and Seers). If a Mistborn film is ever made, he would likely want to make this change in the movie. On other occasions, he has also indicated interest in some day exploring why atium is limited in this way and that the atium present in Era 1 is an atium-electrum alloy.

So let’s say hypothetically the pure form of atium has a similar ability to the electrum-atium. Maybe you can see shadows of yourself and other objects to keep things simple. 

 

If everyone could burn atium in era 1 how would things change? 
 

Would it still be used primarily by mistborn due to its rarity? Would Ham have been given any? Would a random allomancer have atium to keep mistborn on their toes? 
 

Generally I think the plot would stay the same. 
 

What do you guys think would change in era 1 if anyone could burn it? 

Edited Wednesday at 02:17 AM by Elite01

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

Era 1 would be very different, depending on how you wanna imagine this hypothetical scenario.

You said for this scenario, pure atium has a similar ability to electrum-atium. But I should cover the elephant in the room - pure atium’s power. Sanderson has gone on record that the power of atium’s pure form is far stronger than the alloy mined at the Pits of Hathsin. I’m sure two certain Mistborn obsessed colleagues can post the WoBs, but Sanderson generally says pure atium grants an ability similar to Elend’s Full of Stars moment. There’s also the (out of universe?) Allomancy table which states that pure atium grants “an expansive vision of the future.”

There’s a lot of things we don’t know about pure atium - burn rate, how far in time a vision can occur, its accuracy, is it a single outcome That’s So Raven style, is it a web of future possibilities etc. But I think no matter what, if pure atium can be burned by anyone I think the world’s events might have a different outcome for the three Chessmasters - Preservation, Ruin, Rashek.

In the cosmere, if someone sees into the future at the same time someone else sees into the future, it muddles the precognitive waters. One seer sees what another seer is going to do, so their abilities eternally change how they might react to each other. This creates a reflection of two precognitive mirrors facing each other, where infinite possibilities shoot out of one single possibility. A mirror where possibilities constantly disappear and new possibilities constantly appear. Think back to how burning atium or electrum splits an atium shadow.

Preservation and Ruin have the expanded minds and senses to see the possibilities of the world made into layers and layers. Like a tapestry. But if a person burns pure atium, it would create a ripple in their precognitive abilities. It would be the mirror effect, but solely on the Shard’s side. If Kelsier burned pure atium, it would mean Ruin would need to adjust his tapestry on how to maneuver Kelsier into finding the Eleventh Metal. If Vin burned pure atium, Ruin would need to adjust his tapestry on how to manipulate Vin into freeing him and finding the atium cache. If Kelsier, Vin, Elend, or Sazed burned pure atium Preservation would need to adjust his tapestry of the plans he had for them. 

Rashek wouldn’t be susceptible to the same headache. He doesn’t have the mind, senses, or power to create the same vast tapestry of the future, and he can’t access the tapestry he saw while using the Well (assuming he INDEED did this). But I’m sure pure atium burners will find a way to be a headache for him. Especially if we assume that he occasionally burned atium and duralumin, or electrum and duralumin.

I think this form of atium would be used by anyone who can get their hands on it. Seeing vivid outcomes is a desirable power for any Mistborn assassin, skaa thief, noble businessman, subtle Keeper, or rebel leader. I’n sure Ham would want a piece

However, this probably wouldn’t be useful for combat.

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:47 PM by Ale the Metallic Conjurer

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Elite01 said:

So let’s say hypothetically the pure form of atium has a similar ability to the electrum-atium. Maybe you can see shadows of yourself and other objects to keep things simple. 

Technically speaking, the effect of pure Atium is comparable to what happened when Elend burned Atium-electrum alloy with duralumin. So it's vastly more powerful than the alloy.

Spoiler

/u/AAKS_

My understanding is that Brandon thinks it is a plothole that lerasium can be burned by Scadrian (regardless of if they are Mistings/Mistborn) but atium can't.

His solution is to retcon the Pits to naturally produce an atium/electrum alloy, presumably by the design of Preservation. Therefore we don't know what pure atium looks like or does when used in any magic.

Peter Ahlstrom

We do know what it does. It’s on the Allomancy poster, and the effect appeared one time at the end of Hero of Ages.

LewsTherinTelescope

Interesting. Do you know if he had already conceived the retcon by the time the poster was written, or if that line about pure atium just turned out to fit really well retroactively?

Peter Ahlstrom

The retcon is way older than a lot of people assume.

LewsTherinTelescope

Does this mean he had it in mind by the time Hero of Ages released (since the first public version of the poster dates to 2008), or just that it's old but not sure exactly how old?

Peter Ahlstrom

Remember that what's in the books is filtered through the understanding of the characters. So even if Brandon planned it from the beginning, if the characters didn't know about it, it's not going to come out in the book.

And see this thread reply from 2009.

Footnote: The link is to a post on the Timewaster's Guide forums, where Peter responds to someone asking about whether atium is an alloy by saying he now knows enough to confirm or deny the theory, but is not allowed to.
General Reddit 2022 (Dec. 4, 2022)

But assuming they have the same effects:

10 hours ago, Elite01 said:

If everyone could burn atium in era 1 how would things change? 

Would it still be used primarily by mistborn due to its rarity? Would Ham have been given any? Would a random allomancer have atium to keep mistborn on their toes? 

Generally I think the plot would stay the same. 

What do you guys think would change in era 1 if anyone could burn it? 

Brandon has already talked how this would change the Era 1, that's how he is planning the movie to work, with Atium working like Atium-electrum alloy I assume:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

So, one thing I think I did wrong in the books was not having more allomancer guards and soldiers who were women. I don't think our same gender norms would be the case on Scadrial.

One of the [screenplay] revisions is this: Shan is no longer Elend's fiance, but his sister. Their father has left on business to the outer domninances, and so Shan is making a play to secure the heirship, trying to prove she is more bold and strong than her brother. This is what gives the team an opening, and why they're striking now with the heist, as in this version, House Venture maintains the city policing and has access to the atium stash.

The plan is to put a few Allomancers (including Ham) into the Venture house guard, and exploit Shan's desire to prove herself by creating chaos in the city that she'll think she needs to put down with decisive action. That will involve her pulling out the atium stash, which will in turn let the team know where to go to rob them.

It streamlines the book's story in some elegant ways to do this. Shan becomes the primary "mark" of the book, in many ways. It also lets me explain a little more succinctly what various members of the crew are doing in the background while we focus on Vin, who is to get close to Shan as a confidant--which is why she's sent to the parties. And why Shan being a brat to her isn't just annoying, it means a major part of the plan isn't yet in place.

It explains way better, in my opinion, why Shan would act against Elend. It's all clicking into place as I move pieces around. That said, I understand those who want a Television show. I could see going that way, perhaps.

Trouble is, nobody in streaming needs a big fantasy property. Anywhere I go right now, I'd be in a distant second or third place to Tolkien, WoT, Witcher, or Kingkiller. The offers I've gotten have been for a fraction of the budget of those shows--since everyone has already spent big money on their big fantasy show, and isn't really interested in another.

I'm confident feature is the place I want Mistborn; but even if I weren't, I'm not thrilled by the idea of being lost on Netflix as their "other" fantasy show.

Rapharasium

I don't know if I'm being negative, but these changes really worry and disappoint me. I really like Era 1 as it is, and all this change in the dynamics of society and the plot as too drastic.

Brandon Sanderson

This isn't negative; I understand this response, and think it's valid.

At the same time, I'm of the personal philosophy that a film should generally be a different beast than a book--a book can lean into the little intricacies of a story, while a film should be a bold but unified statement.

Nothing will happen to the books; those will remain the same. But if I want this film to work as a film, I believe I need to be willing to re-imagine parts of the story.

Mycroft_canner

With Elend having a sister does that mean you don’t need the Zane plot anymore?

Brandon Sanderson

That's from the second book--so it would be in the television show, and we'd likely still do it.

DataLoreHD

prove she is more bold and strong than her brother

Which brother?It certainly could not be Elend, right? Elend had no Allomancy powers (before he ate the lerasium in WoA), so Straff despised Elend and thought him too weak.And Zane was a bastard and also mad dog.If Shan was Straff's legitimate daughter, then her succession was already 100% secure. She wouldn't need to prove anything to anybody.

Brandon Sanderson

It will be Elend, but it's more that this is the first time that Shan gets to be on her own, leading by herself, and wants to show off for the Lord Ruler. Also, there's the question of whether the male heir--though inferior in this case--might get the nod for sexism reasons. I think it's going to work just fine, but I'll admit, it's getting a little rough to discuss all these details on a thread like this--I can't answer everyone's questions, I'm afraid. I just wanted to indicate the kinds of changes I'm looking at making.

Whatever I do will go through my standard "show it to tons of beta readers and get feedback" process, so I should be able to catch problems and fix them.

meh84f

The bit about atium is a bit confusing. The Ventures are going to have the Atium stash? Not the stash that we don’t find until the end I’m assuming? So it’ll be a stash but much smaller than expected?

Brandon Sanderson

So, I'm not sure I can explain it all in this, but one big change I wished I'd made from the start of Mistborn is making atium usable by all Allomancers. As I've gotten further in the cosmere, using a god metal as just for Mistborn has felt off.

So the lore change for the films will mean any Allomancer can use atium. This, in turn, lets House Venture have access to the LR's atium as a "Control the city" last resort. They keep a task force of allomancers for this purpose--which Ham can join, in anticipation of being able to steal it once Shan accesses it. (They don't know that House Venture is only given about a hundred beads of atium, not access to the full mythical cache, which will be reserved for the third movie.)

Makes the worldbuilding and storytelling more elegant, I've found, in the film. And it fits better with more "modern" cosmere fundamentals as have developed over the last decade. I think I'd make this change even if we moved to a television show and long form.

The Lord Ruler is still the "big bad" but Shan and the Inquisitors both get a little more screen time. (Actually, about the same as in the books--it's just that other parts are being trimmed, making them more front-and-center.)

Phantine

Based on that, you're also streamlining away the Sign of Sixteen if it gets a sequel? To be honest, that didn't really work for me in the novel anyway.

Brandon Sanderson

It's one of my least favorite parts of the trilogy. It (along with Vin drawing upon the mists in book one) are big changes I'm hoping to make to fix weaker sections of the continuity.

General Reddit 2020 (June 22, 2020)

In short, House Venture will have access to a small cache of Atium as the last resort to control the city. They will have a designated group of Allomancers that will be given this Atium (Ham will become a part of it, to learn where Atium is hidden). Other than that, the amount of Atium in the hands of great houses will remain as it was in the books - few beads or something like that - and I think it's reasonable to assume that Mistborn will have the priority on getting beads, but other Mistings might have them as well from time to time. Until the Hose Venture gets authorized to use the Atium stash, we probably won't see many Mistings with Atium running around Luthadel. Kelsier and his crew want to rob Venture Atium because they think Venture will get access to the full, mythical cache of the Lord Ruler - which isn't true. Other than that the plot and how it goes would remain more or less the same. 

 

2 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

There’s also the (out of universe?) Allomancy table

In universe. Metallic Art tables, Ars Arcanum etc. are in world documents, written by someone and available in Cosmere as presented to us. Ars Arcanum is written by Khriss for example. I’m guessing the HoA tables are a part of the Words of Founding left by Sazed.

Spoiler

[...]

Brandon Sanderson

[...]

Remember that the tables—and the ars Arcanum—are 'in world' creations. (Or, at least, in-universe.) The knowledge represented in them is as people understand it, and can always have flaws. That was the case with having atium on the table in the first place,

[...]

Barnes and Noble Book Club Q&A (July 8, 2009)

 

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer he/him]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

In universe. Metallic Art tables, Ars Arcanum etc. are in world documents, written by someone and available in Cosmere as presented to us. Ars Arcanum is written by Khriss for example. I’m guessing the HoA tables are a part of the Words of Founding left by Sazed.

Interesting. You mean the fancy orange and blue tables that list Allomantic and Feruchemical metals, right? Yeah I think they’re part of the Words of Founding. It was mentioned in Bands that Harmony left a pretty, artistic, detailed list of Feruchemical metals.