Long Game 101: The Edge of Empire

[CadCom he/him]

I guess the benefit of losing the radio officer is that we didn't lose a different beneficial role like the action scan (Watch officer) or the alignment scan (Research officer) 

The problem is that the research officer isn't really that beneficial knowing that the infiltrator can just target the sanitation officer changing their alignment scan to village. Then they both read as village, just like everyone else would. 

I just had a realization that if the Lieutenant is in play, their win condition isn't really that conducive to the village rn. Because if they meet their win con, we lose an extra potential villager. So the elims would have an interest in keeping the people in that group alive. at least until N2, because then we lose the lieutenant plus their kill in a single hit. But a lieutenant in play makes  4B a bit more village conducive at least until someone in that group dies. 

So a few worst case scenarios:
 

Spoiler

Worst Case:
With Lieut + 4B
RN: 2 Elim - 2 Neutral - 3 village
After D2 Lynch: 2E - 2N - 2V
After N2: 2E - 1N -1V. Parity. Elims win. 

With Lieu:
RN: 2E - 1N - 4V
D2: 2E - 1N - 3V
N2: 2E - 0N - 2V. Parity. Elims win

With 4B: 
RN: 2E - 1N - 4V
D2: 2E - 1N - 3V
N2: 2E - 1N - 2V
D3: 2E - 1N - 1V. Parity Elims Win

Hit Elim on Vote Today. Not in Lieut Group
With Lieut + 4B
RN: 2E - 2N - 3V
D2: 1E - 2N - 3V
N2: 1E - 1N - 2V

With Lieut: 
RN: 2E - 1N - 4V
D2: 1E - 1N - 4V
N2: 1E - 0N - 3V
 

I think if the Lieutenant is in the game, it's in the best interest of the village to know who they are. But before sharing, if anyone else has a different position, that would be great to discuss. Computer's about to involuntarily reboot. So I'll stop typing now. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

The main use case of keeping it under wraps that I can think of is that if there's a Lieutenant and some people in the doc, then the elims might not know who's in it and they might not know who to avoid hitting with the NK. If they accidentally hit somebody in the doc, that's kind of the best outcome for the village, and by this point a sizeable fraction of the players in the game would be in that doc.

[CadCom he/him]

What's the probability that there's an elim in the doc though? because if an Elim is in the doc, then they know who not to target. 

This is kind of a meta situation though, trying to determine what way the game was balanced. If there is an elim, and no one in the doc is targeted, then we're in trouble. If there isn't an elim, it's probably not as bad.

Do you think it's possible that the Fourth Bridge is also in the game if the Lieutenant is? I imagine only one neutral role would be in otherwise there's a lot power against the village.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Both of those queries depend on how many elims there are, I'd say.

In a single-elim world, the odds that the Lieutenant and/or Fourth Bridge exists is higher, and the odds that the Lieutenant doc is compromised is lower.

In a two-elim world, neutrals are less likely to be in play, especially not multiple of them, and there are at least more chances for an elim to be in the Lieutenant doc.

A three-elim world doesn't seem sensible.

I'm really undecided about which of those two worlds we're in right now.

 

Well, let's look at the problem from a different angle - supposing there were a Lieutenant, how does that inform your decision-making today?

Supposing there's no Lieutenant, how does that inform your decision-making today?

[CadCom he/him]

Hypothetically, if there were a lieutenant, and they were outed, then it could be the village who votes them out.
But then that's wasting a lynch that could be used on a potential Elim. 

Edit: There's also the option of casting a no exe vote. I don't know the rules on that. If No Exe is the winner, does no one get exed, or does the highest vote getter get exed? (It's listed as one of the clarifications in the rules, but I apparently need more clarification @Kasimir Sorry

Edited July 23 by CadCom

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

I'd assume that if No Exe is the winner, then there is no exe

watch Kas show up and clarify that I'm wrong and an idiot >:P

How do you figure the vilage could vote out a Lieutenant claimant? Shouldn't we want to avoid doing that, if we believe them?

[Ashbringer he/him]

3 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

are connectives even that useful in this game? like, I doubt there's more than 2 elims, and there could pretty reasonably only be 1

Interrupting the Lieutenant discussion for a brief moment on my lunch break - highly doubt there'd just be 1. If there was just 1, and 4B finds them, they get roleblocked for all eternity. They get one more unblockable kill, but after that they just lose if they don't hit 4B. My guess would be 2, with maybe a Double Agent in the mix somewhere depending on Village power.

[Coffeecat she/her]

Can the 4B roleblock an elim kill? I thought it was something that happened as a team action separately from individual player actions that would get roleblocked 

5 hours ago, The Unknown Order said:

The player list says that we're supposed to kill you next. What's your defense?

That we should be going alphabetically! Maybe reverse alphabetical actually

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Jacks had never wished more that he were a genius.

He wasn't stupid- no one survived for long in his profession by being stupid- but he was a long way off from being one of those detectives from the stories. The ones that could look at what a person was wearing and tell you where they were born, how they made a living, and what they ate for breakfast that morning. If one of those had been in Jacks' shoes, they'd've been able to get answers from the broken mess of wires that had once been the communications system. All Jacks had was a load of questions. How had the assassin gained access to the room? Had they stolen an access card, or were they truly a high-ranking officer? Or had they hacked through the door in some other way?

The only conclusion he felt certain drawing from this mess was that the Scadrians- whoever they were- wanted the bridgemen isolated and afraid. The chaos on the ship was playing right into their hands.

His mind wrapped back around to the door to Comms, and the keycard that would have been required to enter. Could it have been someone in Command? He thought of the officer he'd encountered yesterday. (CoffeeCat) He'd felt something off about them, and tried pushing them to see what their response would be. The response in question had been... off. They hadn't sounded like an innocent; they'd sounded like someone trying to sound innocent. And then he'd overheard them saying his name in hushed tones to a small group of officers, just a few minutes later.

They're getting to me, Jacks thought grimly. Here I am, looking for Scadrians in every shadow. He shook his head, bending down to see what was on the pad. It seemed to be a dictionary definition of the word lethargy. Considering the context, it seemed somewhat morbid.

How long would it be before they were all sleeping with the stars?

Edited July 23 by xinoehp512

[Kasimir he/him]

2 hours ago, CadCom said:

Edit: There's also the option of casting a no exe vote. I don't know the rules on that. If No Exe is the winner, does no one get exed, or does the highest vote getter get exed? (It's listed as one of the clarifications in the rules, but I apparently need more clarification @Kasimir Sorry

No exe is treated like any other vote option. If it's highest then nobody is exed.

1 hour ago, Coffeecat said:

Can the 4B roleblock an elim kill? I thought it was something that happened as a team action separately from individual player actions that would get roleblocked 

Yes. The ruling it does not take an action slot does not mean it's not an action. It just means Elims do not need to choose between any actions they have and the kill: they can do both. Whoever sends in the kill will have the kill fail if they are roleblocked.

[CadCom he/him]

3 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

I'd assume that if No Exe is the winner, then there is no exe

watch Kas show up and clarify that I'm wrong and an idiot >:P

How do you figure the vilage could vote out a Lieutenant claimant? Shouldn't we want to avoid doing that, if we believe them?

It was just me thinking of extending the game one cycle by preventing them from winning and dropping out. But after that nkong further, it doesn't help us win in the end. I think I'll put my vote to no exe for now, as without a clear idea of who's elim I think it's best to not kill anyone. 

[Coffeecat she/her]

I think i will go no exe for now.

 

just for funsies. No exe counts as a vote for the captain right?

[Kasimir he/him]

9 minutes ago, Coffeecat said:

I think i will go no exe for now.

 

just for funsies. No exe counts as a vote for the captain right?

It does, but the only thing that matters for the Captain is the vote at the end of the cycle. I don’t consider any vote placed and retracted to matter.

[RoyalBeeMage he/him]

Drake! the research officer pm’d me in the first few minutes of day 2 before I woke up or they reilised that pms were closed. They told me because they wanted to remain anonymous.

[The Unknown Order he/him]

14 minutes ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

Drake! the research officer pm’d me in the first few minutes of day 2 before I woke up or they reilised that pms were closed. They told me because they wanted to remain anonymous.

Uh, this sounds like it needs an IM ASAP.

@Araris Valerian

[CadCom he/him]

15 minutes ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

Drake! the research officer pm’d me in the first few minutes of day 2 before I woke up or they reilised that pms were closed. They told me because they wanted to remain anonymous.

Hmm. I have an issue with this. While I believe the claim, I worry about the precedent set by publicly sharing info that was shared when it shouldn't have been. 

[Coffeecat she/her]

yep, sounds a bit sketchy. Im gonna pretend it didn't happen until an IM or Kas says anything

[Araris Valerian he/him]

No rules have been (significantly) broken here, continue as planned.

[Coffeecat she/her]

Alright, so Drake has been seen as evil by the research officer? Not sure if I believe that. It is very easy to fake. 

[Kasimir he/him]

GM Announcement!

If anyone wants clarifications, I'd advise getting them in before the NAs get to sleep tonight because I'm going to be unavailable for a decent chunk of the cycle, until around SGT noon tomorrow. This means that essentially your best chance of getting clarifications off me in a timely manner is ASAP. Get them out of your system!

Rollover will not be affected.

[The Unknown Order he/him]

I think that means this is a reaction test? That got broken? My guess is RBM had this planned as a reaction test, then Aeo died and their plans got messed up. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

1 hour ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

Drake! the research officer pm’d me in the first few minutes of day 2 before I woke up or they reilised that pms were closed. They told me because they wanted to remain anonymous.

 

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

No rules have been (significantly) broken here, continue as planned.

Alright so you're definitely lying.

RBM.

And there's no way RBM scanned me himself either, because I targeted him last night with my Steward ability.

I'll remain open-minded to the possibility of a reaction test, but obviously I won't withdraw my vote from you until you withdraw your claim

[Ashbringer he/him]

Yeaaaah pretty sure that means RBM is lying here.

Unless the Steward showed a self-alignment as Evil? But that wouldn't make any sense anyway (and even if it did, would still be e!RBM).

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

as an aside, I would personally rather not do a no-exe, even if we didn't have the RBM thing playing out

In theory, it gives us more information at lylo, but it also gives us fewer votes, and the elims more control over who is talking and making the decisions when it all goes down.

and there's something to be said for pumping the brakes just being sort of bad for village morale

It might be the best move in some theoretical perfect village, but in the one we live in, I don't think the tradeoffs are worth it honestly

ok back to your regularly scheduled programming

(...edit: oh, and there's also potentially a malicious third party who wins if we take too long to end the game? granted, they might not be in this game, but delaying might cost us here)

Edited July 24 by DrakeMarshall

[RoyalBeeMage he/him]

Wow I was not expecting that reaction to my claim. Though in hindsight it seems obvious to me now.
 

I suppose I might as well claim my role. I am the research officer. My plan was originally to claim that someone pm ed me about drake being an elim but since pms were closed i had to improvise slightly.