Which Twinborn do you think is most useful?

Dofurion · July 17

I liked this question, so I thought it would be fun to ask the opposite.

Quote

https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/196177-which-compounding-twinborn-would-you-least-like-to-be/

JustQuestin2004 · July 18

I'm gonna have to once again go with A-Pewter and F-Steel.

Allomantic Pewter enhances almost every part of your body in a very significant way, in strength, speed, healing, balance and more. A lesser known quirk of Feruchemical Steel is to enhance the Burn rate of Allomancy, meaning you can use it to bolster your allomancy like a more sustainable if lesser version of A-Duralumin.

You can spend all of your time Flaring Pewter and storing away the additional speed, then Tap it whenever it's required, which will then enhance you burning pewter which will make you even stronger and faster all that. Bleeder showed off how deadly a 'normal' Steelrunner can be by blitzing people at ridiculous speeds, so imagine if they were also much stronger than the average man and could fill up their Steelminds at a much quicker rate.

It's useful in a fight, in everyday life since you'd be stronger and faster and heal better all the time. The only real downside would be that you'd absolutely suffer from Savantism which, well it depends on if you're cool with that since one hand, you'll lose you sense of pain and on the other, you get even more speed to store.

Trusk'our · July 18

A weird and interesting Twinborn might be A-electrum with F-nicrosil. If you can store your Allomancy when not burning a rare precious metal you can get a supercharged version of it briefly, meaning you can get an expansive Atium-like vision of the future for only a sliver of electrum.

This could be useful for any number of situations, but may be particularly powerful for hacking Invested systems that require a large amount of in-depth knowledge (ahem, Hemalurgy and advanced Feruchemy)

Only downside is being restricted to using it on occasion, since you'd presumably have to store a lot of Investiture ahead of time.

Quantus · July 18

We're talking specifically about Compounding Twinborn like in the other thread, yes? Not just Twinborn with one Ferring and one Misting Power?

If that's the case, I think being Double Tin is the best combination, since it does more than just allow Compounding. The Ability to selectively Store each sense will protect you from the side effects of over-using and even Flairing Allomantic Tin. And you can store in private and then tap metalminds to have the enhanced (magical and/or mist piercing) Allomantic senses with no active A-Bronze to hear. And if you can get your hands medallions for even a little while, you should be able to store and then infinitely compound the sensory parts of other powers (Steelsight and Bronze, mostly)

Edited July 18 by Quantus

Trusk'our · July 18

25 minutes ago, Quantus said:

We're talking specifically about Compounding Twinborn like in the other thread, yes? Not just Twinborn with one Ferring and one Misting Power?

If that's the case, I think being Double Tin is the best combination, since it does more than just allow Compounding. The Ability to selectively Store each sense will protect you from the side effects of over-using and even Flairing Allomantic Tin. And you can store in private and then tap metalminds to have the enhanced (magical and/or mist piercing) Allomantic senses with no active A-Bronze to hear. And if you can get your hands medallions for even a little while, you should be able to store and then infinitely compound the sensory parts of other powers (Steelsight and Bronze, mostly)

Ah, Compounding only.

In that case, I'd argue zinc, as it will massively boost your cognition and probably learning power.

Rioting is good too, but really, having the mind augmentation of double zinc would be its greatest power.

Quantus · July 18

1 minute ago, Trusk'our said:

Ah, Compounding only.

In that case, I'd argue zinc, as it will massively boost your cognition and probably learning power.

Rioting is good too, but really, having the mind augmentation of double zinc would be its greatest power.

That one has an interesting Quirk (from the Coppermind):

Quote

Tapping zinc has the odd side effect of making the user hungry.^[18]

Normal tapping would be relatively small compared to what Compounding would allow so normal caloric reserves are probably fine. But with compounding are you at risk of starving your brain of glucose or something similar by tapping to much at once? Would you need to be able to also Compound F-Bendalloy to keep up with the caloric demands, or else moderate your intelligence boost to low multiples only?

Trusk'our · July 18

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

That one has an interesting Quirk (from the Coppermind):

Normal tapping would be relatively small compared to what Compounding would allow so normal caloric reserves are probably fine. But with compounding are you at risk of starving your brain of glucose or something similar by tapping to much at once? Would you need to be able to also Compound F-Bendalloy to keep up with the caloric demands, or else moderate your intelligence boost to low multiples only?

That's a fair point.

Count point, dieting would become so, so much easier

I also wonder, would Savantism from compounding make it less strenuous on your brain's energy? Maybe siphon off some of the power to directly feed it via Investiture.

Quantus · July 18

18 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

That's a fair point.

Count point, dieting would become so, so much easier

I also wonder, would Savantism from compounding make it less strenuous on your brain's energy? Maybe siphon off some of the power to directly feed it via Investiture.

From a purely doylistic standpoint I doubt it since Savantism is always supposed to Suck a little bit rather than solving/mitigating the system's limitations. I suspect you'd go the other way and require increased calories all the time regardless of whether you are actively juicing your mental speed.

Isilel · July 18

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

you should be able to store and then infinitely compound the sensory parts of other powers (Steelsight and Bronze, mostly)

Sense of balance and timing, i.e. "grace" from A-Pewter too, I imagine.

23 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I also wonder, would Savantism from compounding make it less strenuous on your brain's energy?

Not sure why compounding would necessarily lead to savantism? You don't have to flare when burning feruchemical reserves. In fact, just doing extra cycles of burning and storing at normal rate would increase the amount of stored attribute much more.

Quantus · July 18

10 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Sense of balance and timing, i.e. "grace" from A-Pewter too, I imagine.

Not sure why compounding would necessarily lead to savantism? You don't have to flare when burning feruchemical reserves. In fact, just doing extra cycles of burning and storing at normal rate would increase the amount of stored attribute much more.

Any prolonged use of Investiture at the power levels that Allomancy provides can eventually lead to Savantism. It doesnt need to be flairing, just a continuous burn will eventually do it (though flairing will do it much faster).

strmblsd · July 19

Steel.. both abilities alone are really useful and then you can just do them both a bit better just sounds amazing if I could I would be this one

Speeding Steelrunner · July 19

It depends on what you mean by "useful," but steel is really good. Like strmblsd said, both powers are good on their own, and speed is one of the most ridiculously OP attributes you can compound. Aside from being great for combat, you could also just use it for travelling. It might not really work for mundane tasks, as it seems to increase your reaction speed but not so much your general processing abilities, so I don't think you could use it to, for example, complete a puzzle really quickly. That's the main downside of that one--not a ton of everyday applications. But on the other hand, it would also just be really fun.

Zinc is good to, and probably more useful in everyday scenarios than steel, but less potent overall. The hunger side effect would also get pretty annoying, although if you just ate more, you could probably fix that pretty easily.

As you can see by my profile pic, my favorite non-Compounding Twinborn is the A-electrum/F-steel Twinborn.

On 7/18/2024 at 12:09 AM, Trusk'our said:

A weird and interesting Twinborn might be A-electrum with F-nicrosil. If you can store your Allomancy when not burning a rare precious metal you can get a supercharged version of it briefly, meaning you can get an expansive Atium-like vision of the future for only a sliver of electrum.

This could be useful for any number of situations, but may be particularly powerful for hacking Invested systems that require a large amount of in-depth knowledge (ahem, Hemalurgy and advanced Feruchemy)

Only downside is being restricted to using it on occasion, since you'd presumably have to store a lot of Investiture ahead of time.

I wish that were how F-nicrosil worked, but I don't think it is. We have a WoB that says that it works like a coppermind, which implies that you can only put things in and take them out--you don't get any extra when you tap.

Quote

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.
General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

alder24 · July 19

38 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

I wish that were how F-nicrosil worked, but I don't think it is. We have a WoB that says that it works like a coppermind, which implies that you can only put things in and take them out--you don't get any extra when you tap.

That's ONLY in a medallion, which is different and more restrictive than the normal use of F-nicrosil.

Spoiler

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil?

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

Speeding Steelrunner · July 19

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

That's ONLY in a medallion, which is different and more restrictive than the normal use of F-nicrosil.

Hide contents

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil?

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

Do we know that that's only for a medallion? If it did work like a normal metalmind, then I don't see how you could make a medallion that doesn't run out. Don't get me wrong, I would much rather that F-nicrosil works like other powers, since that makes it very useful instead of essentially useless.

alder24 · July 19

9 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

Do we know that that's only for a medallion? If it did work like a normal metalmind, then I don't see how you could make a medallion that doesn't run out. Don't get me wrong, I would much rather that F-nicrosil works like other powers, since that makes it very useful instead of essentially useless.

Medallions aren't just metalminds, they are little machines that have a little bit of life force, a bit of identity of their own, that grant you Feruchemical powers. You don't tap the nicrosilmind in a medallion, the machine gives you those powers instead. They are like Honorblades, which are self-aware.

Spoiler

Raddatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

Spoiler

Questioner

Do Honorblades bestow their abilities similar to an Identity-free nicrosilmind with other Metalborn abilities?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, these are working on similar principles. Same principle, divergent applications by the magic system, but yeah, I would say, they come back to the same principles.

Orem signing (March 10, 2018)

Spoiler

Fluffy (paraphrased)

When the Five Scholars traveled to Roshar, this happened post Recreance, so most Shardblades would have been dead, how did Nightblood gain sapience?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shardblades weren’t the only Blades around that were active, there were Honorblades. Honorblades are self-aware, but do not manifest a spren in the Cognitive Realm.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 15, 2022)

All we have are those WoBs, we're left with speculations only. Because medallions are different and more restrictive and because they are little machines with their own identity, I believe a normal use of F-nicrosil allows you to store and tap invested powers, just like any other attribute. Only when used in medallions nicrosilmind will work like a coppermind because you bond them and are given powers via that bond. I think it's more like an artificial soul/spren that just permanently have those powers in their spirit web and that's why it doesn't run out.

SwordNimiForPresident · July 26

How am I the only one that picked Nicrosil? It is literally a path to being Fullborn.

Speeding Steelrunner · July 26

9 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

How am I the only one that picked Nicrosil? It is literally a path to being Fullborn.

From my understanding of F-nicrosil, that would require you to get an unkeyed metalmind containing each of the other powers. So, that will require a bunch of nicrosil Ferrings with F-aluminum spikes. Then the nicrosil Ferrings will also need the other 29 Allomanticic and Feruchemical powers.

So, it would be really, really difficult. Also, I don't think you would even need to be a compounder--an ordinary nicrosil Ferring should be able to do it too, at least temporarily.

SwordNimiForPresident · July 26

4 hours ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

From my understanding of F-nicrosil, that would require you to get an unkeyed metalmind containing each of the other powers. So, that will require a bunch of nicrosil Ferrings with F-aluminum spikes. Then the nicrosil Ferrings will also need the other 29 Allomanticic and Feruchemical powers.

So, it would be really, really difficult. Also, I don't think you would even need to be a compounder--an ordinary nicrosil Ferring should be able to do it too, at least temporarily.

You should be able to take a little power from a medallion and compound it into unlimited (or at least limited by how much nicrosil you can get your hands on) Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities. Compounding would be important because it would mean you only needed to acquire each ability once.

Speeding Steelrunner · July 27

19 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

You should be able to take a little power from a medallion and compound it into unlimited (or at least limited by how much nicrosil you can get your hands on) Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities. Compounding would be important because it would mean you only needed to acquire each ability once.

Yeah, but acquiring each ability even once is still really difficult. Even if you don't bother with some of the useless abilities like A-aluminum and A-gold, there's still over 25 to get, and some of them are supposed to be really rare, especially spiritual Feruchemical powers like F-nicrosil and F-aluminum, which you need several of for the operation to work.

Trusk'our · July 27

22 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

Yeah, but acquiring each ability even once is still really difficult. Even if you don't bother with some of the useless abilities like A-aluminum and A-gold,

Doesn't the gold Allomancy let you Compound health though?

SwordNimiForPresident · July 27

13 minutes ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

Yeah, but acquiring each ability even once is still really difficult. Even if you don't bother with some of the useless abilities like A-aluminum and A-gold, there's still over 25 to get, and some of them are supposed to be really rare, especially spiritual Feruchemical powers like F-nicrosil and F-aluminum, which you need several of for the operation to work.

I never meant to imply that it would be fast or easy, but the path exists. If you put forth a concerted effort you could reasonably acquire most of the metallic arts. We've only seen a few types of medallions, but it stands to reason that they would make some for each power that they have access to. Getting your hands on one for even a second would mean permanently gaining the abilities it holds.

It's also worth noting that at some point you would be able to make a commodity of your powers because you would be able to produce unkeyed metalmind on demand. This would drastically increase your earning potential and give you access to more resources. I could easily see the southern Scadrians offering you access to medallions in exchange for making more of them.

As a side note, A-gold is far from useless. Just ask Miles hundred lives.

As a side side note, I expect that this combination of powers would also draw the attention of several powerful groups on Scadrial, the Ghostbloods and Harmony to be specific. Either of these groups would almost certainly help you expand your access to abilities in the furtherance of their causes.

Speeding Steelrunner · July 27

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I never meant to imply that it would be fast or easy, but the path exists. If you put forth a concerted effort you could reasonably acquire most of the metallic arts. We've only seen a few types of medallions, but it stands to reason that they would make some for each power that they have access to. Getting your hands on one for even a second would mean permanently gaining the abilities it holds.

True enough. In my opinion, it's difficult enough that I would rather be a different Compounder if I had a choice.

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

As a side note, A-gold is far from useless. Just ask Miles hundred lives.

Yeah, good point. I wasn't thinking about the fact that you would need it to compound F-gold. It is on its own pretty much useless as far as we've seen though.

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

As a side side note, I expect that this combination of powers would also draw the attention of several powerful groups on Scadrial, the Ghostbloods and Harmony to be specific. Either of these groups would almost certainly help you expand your access to abilities in the furtherance of their causes.

I'm not sure Harmony would want someone turning themselves into a Fullborn. Also, any group that tried to recruit you to turn you into a Fullborn would have to be very cautious, because they would have to worry about being betrayed. They would probably want to find some way to control you, which wouldn't be ideal for you.

All in all, like I said before, this wouldn't be one of my top picks (especially if we're talking about having it in the real world, where there aren't other magic users and it would be pretty much useless), but it does have some pretty powerful potential. It could make for an interesting story to nave a nicrosil compounder trying to become a full Metalborn.

SwordNimiForPresident · July 27

5 hours ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

It could make for an interesting story to nave a nicrosil compounder trying to become a full Metalborn.

Not sure where they were getting their info, but I remember it being said that Era 3's main character was supposed to be a female Terris nicrosil compounder. Can't remember where or when I read that, so take it with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Trusk'our · July 27

4 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Not sure where they were getting their info, but I remember it being said that Era 3's main character was supposed to be a female Terris nicrosil compounder. Can't remember where or when I read that, so take it with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Seems they're just a Nicroburst, not a Compounder.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/202-barnes-and-noble-book-club-qa/#e5835

Sensitivemuse

Are you going to write more about the Mistborn? There's still those mysterious metals, and it's a brand new world out there now so many possibilities you could do with that!

Brandon Sanderson

I will, someday, write a follow-up trilogy to Mistborn. It will be set several hundred years after the events of the first trilogy, after technology has caught up to where it should be. Essentially, these will be urban fantasy stories set in the same world. Guns, cars, skyscrapers—and Allomancers.

That's still pretty far off, though. The other metals are being revealed on the poster I'm releasing of the Allomantic table. Should be for sale on my website sometime soon, though someone here can probably link to the image I posted of it, which has the other metals explained. (I can't remember where exactly that link is right now.)

Hero of the new trilogy would be a nicrosil Misting.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/189-rfantasy-ama-2011/#e4020

MindCanaries

Why did you settle on a Nicrosil Misting for your second Mistborn trilogy? Did you consider any other types?

Brandon Sanderson

I considered others, but in the end this was one aspect of the magic system I hadn't explored yet but which is very important for the future of the series. I wanted to start establishing it.

SwordNimiForPresident · July 27

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Seems they're just a Nicroburst, not a Compounder.

Dang, those are from forever ago. Wonder if his plans have changed at all. I don't think Era 2 was even a twinkle in his eye at that point was it? Or rather, I think that was supposed to be Era 2 and he hadn't thought up Wax and Wayne yet.

Which Twinborn do you think is most useful?