Feedback on my Own Shapeshifting Selish Magic System

[Atlas333]

As a fun creative exercise, I've been trying to create my own magic system that could theoretically exist on Sel. Sel is the perfect place for this exercise because

1. The magic system is very open-ended. Anything is possible with the right combination of aons/symbols which makes Sel a big sandbox.

2. Sel is a massive planet. We've only seen a handful of countries but have about half a dozen magic systems. Should the trend continue Sel could easily be hiding half a dozen more. 

I've worked on it myself for a while but would like some help making it "fit" better. Essentially, does it work like a cosmere magic system would, specifically a selish magic system? If not, how can it be improved?

 

Here are the ground rules for selish magics as I see them. The magics exist on a spectrum of devotion to dominion. Magic systems that lean devotion are more skill-based (aons, chayshan, and forgery) while magics that lean dominion are more sacrificial in nature (bloodsealing, darkhor, and the potions - although I don't have much proof for that last one). Additionally, every selish magic system has a focus on symbols or forms that channel the power.

 

Using those rules I came up with this:

The main use of the magic system is that by putting on masks (inlaid with aon-like symbols) the practitioners (called shifters) can transform into a specific animal. Of course, any cosmere magic system needs defined rules. Here's what I've got so far

- when transforming mass is maintained meaning that you can't become much bigger or smaller than you already are

- the animal the shifter is becoming has to be a mammal (my logic is that mammals share some body similarities. Transforming into birds, lizards or fish is theoretically possible but takes more power than the average shifter would have access to).

- transformations are fairly short; I don't imagine longer than 10 minutes although frequent use can increase this limit.

- In order to create a mask the practitioner must find the animal they want to transform into and perform a sacrificial ritual which forges a connection between the person and the animal. As part of this process, part of the animal's skull is incorporated into the mask.

- Because of this ritual a shifter can only use masks they've made. If someone else tries to wear their mask it won't have any effect.

 

That's the gist of the magic system. My goal was to take a somewhat common magic power (shapeshifting) and adapt it to the cosmere. So now I ask, does this seem realistic for a selish magic system? If not how could it be improved to better fit into the world of Sel?

(also, just as a side question I'm curious what you guys think would be useful animals to transform into. I'm struggling not to default to basics - bear, wolf, etc.-  and would appreciate some help brainstorming).

Edited Tuesday at 10:24 PM by Atlas333

[Quantus he/him]

I like it! Im guessing it has a lot of realmic similarities to Forgery, as a temporary overwriting of the Spiritweb.

 

I would allow size/mass changes, at least within some categorical tiers.  Or else you'd really need to be able to scale larger creatures down to match human mass.  Otherwise the available forms will be extremely limited.  Realmically each transformation is tied to a very specific Form and Identity of the sacrificed form, so perhaps the Sacrificial ritual converts their mass to Investiture stored within the Mask itself, to be tapped for the temporary mass. It would mean that masks for larger forms are quantitatively more Invested, but otherwise Size/Mass changes via investiture are pretty common in the cosmere, so it's not as problematic as harder science settings.  Realmically it would also makes sense for it to take more Investiture to mimic a sapient species compared to an animal; Singer, Sho Dal, etc. but Kandra are probably not viable since they have no native Bones to provide the skull focus.    

 

As far as useful forms: The normal druidic things like wolf or lions and tigers and bears for combat. Horse for speed.  Various birds for specific purposes, if species can be found with compatible mass ranges.  Ditto marine mammals like dolphins. Platypus for novel sensory capabilities (might combine with F-Tin to use in human form).  Giant spiders for silk production.  Sho Dal for extra limbs, Singer for Gemhearts & rhythms. 

EDIT:  So I was thinking about this more, and if the Sacrifice ritual actually absorbs the rest of body into the mask itself, it would be easy to say that the final transformation looks just like the sacrifice.  If that's the case, a morally compromised Shifter could literally steal faces from people, and use masks to impersonate them at least as fully as Kandra, while arguably being MORE like Hemalurgy than the way they do it now since it takes a spiritweb Donor for the mask creation).  

Edited Tuesday at 05:30 PM by Quantus

[Elite01]

The stealing faces is very interesting. I am a little worried about stepping on toes of kandra or hemalurgy but it can also be branded as a pattern throughout the cosmere. The entire thing does sound cool I imagine carvings on both sides of the mask to channel the Dor. 

 

It would be wild if this was real and they could go to roshar to get a whitespine transformation. 

[alder24]

5 hours ago, Atlas333 said:

Here are the ground rules for selish magics as I see them. The magics exist on a spectrum of devotion to dominion. Magic systems that lean devotion are more skill-based (aons, chayshan, and forgery) while magics that lean dominion are more sacrificial in nature (bloodsealing, darkhor, and the potions - although I don't have much proof for that last one). Additionally, every selish magic system has a focus on symbols or forms that channel the power.

 

Using those rules I came up with this:

The main use of the magic system is that by putting on masks (inlaid with aon-like symbols) the practitioners (called shifters) can transform into a specific animal. Of course, any cosmere magic system needs defined rules. Here's what I've got so far

- when transforming mass is maintained meaning that you can't become much bigger or smaller than you already are

- the animal the shifter is becoming has to be a mammal (my logic is that mammals share some body similarities. Transforming into birds, lizards or fish is theoretically possible but takes more power than the average shifter would have access to).

- transformations are fairly short; I don't imagine longer than 10 minutes although frequent use can increase this limit.

- In order to create a mask the practitioner must find the animal they want to transform into and perform a sacrificial ritual which forges a connection between the person and the animal. As part of this process, part of the animal's skull is incorporated into the mask.

- Because of this ritual a shifter can only use masks they've made. If someone else tries to wear their mask it won't have any effect.

 

That's the gist of the magic system. My goal was to take a somewhat common magic power (shapeshifting) and adapt it to the cosmere. So now I ask, does this seem realistic for a selish magic system? If not how could it be improved to better fit into the world of Sel?

(also, just as a side question I'm curious what you guys think would be useful animals to transform into. I'm struggling not to default to basics - bear, wolf, etc.-  and would appreciate some help brainstorming).

It looks good. I can already answer the last question - not a lot of animals. That's because of your first rule, mass conservation. It's a rule I don't know what you want to do with, but personally I think it's way too restrictive. The mass problem can be easily overcome with investiture and spiritual handweaving. 

My personal take on the mass conservation is to get rid of it partially, turn it into a skill based ability. A beginner Shifter can transform mainly into animals of the same mass that's because changing mass requires addition of new symbols to the mask - the bigger the change, the more complicated the symbols are needed, but they also require detailed anatomical knowledge of both human and animal body to place them in correct combination and correct places on the mask. More skilled Shifters can change into a mammal of any mass with no problems, as long as they have that knowledge. Investiture and Spiritual Realm is dealing with all mass weirdness.

Tress spoilers:

Spoiler

Truthfully, even this seems too complicated. Riina was able to turn a person into a real rat and I'm sure it requires a heck of a skill, it may not require that level of anatomical knowledge like I propose. 

Now, having this mass problem behind us, let's talk about animal types. I think the explanation for why mammals only can be as simple as Connection. It's easier to shift into animals that live closely to humans and resemble humans in their anatomy because you share a stronger Connection with them. A cow or a dog would be fairly easy to transform into, while a wolf or a bison a bit harder but still doable with some training. On the other hand a bird would be much more difficult because even though it lives close to humans, it's mostly a wild animal, with its body built totally differently. A fish is even more difficult as it shares little similarities with the human body and lives in a totally different environment. The more differences there are and the further away they live from humans (and less dependent they are frum us - the more wild they are), the smaller the Connection, the harder it is to shift into that animal and the more investiture it requires (because there is more changes you need to make to your body, plus the Connection too weak so your body resist those changes a lot - more resistance, more investiture needed to overcome that). Definitely a great rule that has some nice foundation in Cosmere rules. 

Now mask creation. Personally, just my thought and nothing more, I would make the entirety of the mask out of the skull of the killed animal. But that's just me (insert innocent face here). The skull would have to be reshaped into a one primary shape that's based on the land from where the magic originate - just like every Aon is based on Aon Aon, the skull/mask has to be shaped into a one symbol and later more smaller symbols and modifiers can be engraved on the mask to make the mask work. That's the most important part of Selish magic, the symbols have to be based on the shape of the land the magic comes from. 

There is also the issue of distance. On Sel, the further away you are from your homeworld, the weaker the magic becomes. Some are more susceptible to this, like Elantrians, others are less like Dakhor Monks. To which category your system belongs to? And how is this weakening manifested in your magic? I think the most obvious way is that it's even harder to transform into animals that are less human-like and live further away from them, to the point that you could transform only into domesticated animals. TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

With some skillful use of some hacking and external investiture this can be of course overcome and your system can work in Cosmere. But it does require some hacking.

The last rule can be of course bypassed by messing identity - if a Shifter creates a mask with no identity, any Shifter can use it. Maybe a Shifter that has no identity can use another's mask, although for a much shorter period of time. Mistborn spoilers:

Spoiler

Just like metalminds works. A unkeyed metalmind can be used by any Feruchemist, but a identityless Feruchemist can't use keyed metalminds of other Feruchemists. You can slightly tweak that last part.

Anyway, it's not like manipulating identity would be easily possible for Shifters, at least not with the magic you've presented. So this just has implications for wider Comsere and worldhopping. 

Question for you. Do you want to incorporate modifiers that would actually change and "mutate" some characteristic of an animal, or you just want your Shifters to turn into realistic animals? Like turning into a wolf and nothing else? Do you allow yourself to turn into a wolf with echolocation if a Shifter is extremely skillful and can create a very complicated mask full of complicated symbols? That sounds like an extreme high tier ability with a lot of potential, but also is quite close to what Kandra can do. 

Overall I find this idea to be a very Selish magic system. It fits nicely, has some good rules and is definitely interesting - I would want to turn into a totally normal and innocent platypus, but I don't know if I could bear the weight of their blood on my hands and their skull on my face. That's a huge price to pay  

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:27 PM by alder24

[Atlas333]

That's good feedback, thank you guys.

5 hours ago, Quantus said:

I would allow size/mass changes, at least within some categorical tiers.  Or else you'd really need to be able to scale larger creatures down to match human mass.  Otherwise the available forms will be extremely limited.  Realmically each transformation is tied to a very specific Form and Identity of the sacrificed form, so perhaps the Sacrificial ritual converts their mass to Investiture stored within the Mask itself, to be tapped for the temporary mass. It would mean that masks for larger forms are quantitatively more Invested, but otherwise Size/Mass changes via investiture are pretty common in the cosmere, so it's not as problematic as harder science settings. 

I was a little worried that shapeshifting and manipulating mass would be too complicated but if that isn't the case then maybe it doesn't need that limitation. I think tying larger/smaller limitations to skill level as suggested above is a good compromise. I implemented the mammals-only rule for similar reasons but again skill level might be a more interesting obstacle than flat out saying it's impossible.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

There is also the issue of distance. On Sel, the further away you are from your homeworld, the weaker the magic becomes. Some are more susceptible to this, like Elantrians, others are less like Dakhor Monks. To which category your system belongs to? And how is this weakening manifested in your magic? I think the most obvious way is that it's even harder to transform into animals that are less human-like and live further away from them, to the point that you could transform only into domesticated animals.

This is one element I hadn't considered in my initial brainstorming. I'd imagine they'd be more similar to Dakhor monks due to the sacrifice during the process but still somewhat location-dependent. Your suggestion seems reasonable enough. 

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Question for you. Do you want to incorporate modifiers that would actually change and "mutate" some characteristic of an animal, or you just want your Shifters to turn into realistic animals? Like turning into a wolf and nothing else? Do you allow yourself to turn into a wolf with echolocation if a Shifter is extremely skillful and can create a very complicated mask full of complicated symbols? That sounds like an extreme high tier ability with a lot of potential, but also is quite close to what Kandra can do. 

I think this is well within the realm of possibility for this magic system but it feels more like an "era 2 mask" for lack of a better term (kind of like how we see other magic systems develop and grow more complex as time progresses). Similarly, I had the idea of a "partial transformation" that would allow the shifter to take on one attribute of an animal (say the eyes of an eagle) without undergoing a full transformation but I wanted to focus on the basics of the system first. But these are all things that I think should be possible as the magic system is studied and developed.