LG 102: Day 2 - Lost in the Night

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Writeup to come later, I had things come up tonight that I didn't expect.

---

Father Rhinehardt @Sart went missing! He was an Innocent Explorer!

Day 2 has begun, and will end at 11 PM Eastern time on Thursday September 19th.

Player List:

Spoiler

1. The Unknown Order as Keisser, a tardy veteran Innocent Explorer
2. @Coffeecat as Coffee Cat, an insomniac feline
3. @Aeoryi as Aero Yee, a spook shooter
4. @Lego Mistborn as The Nameless Recluse
5. @Elandera as Leander, a paranormal investigator
6. @Lord Spirit as Kirc, a clueless drunk
7. Sart as Father Rhinehardt, an ageless priest Innocent Explorer
8. @Kasimir as Kanem, who's tired
9. @Aeternum as Aven, who's quiet
10. @Just a Silvereye as Junior Junior, the local grump

 

[Aeternum they/them]

Elandera

[Kasimir he/him]

Fell sick on top of everything so gonna try to keep this short and say something in the morning when I wake up before conference. Or after I guess. Forgot we have 48.

Sart being killed in S1 feels like a textbook shot in some ways. In S3, I instinctively feel he picks a sideways shot, but I’m not the best at understanding how he thinks.

Aeo. Tempted to either not vote until I can work things out or double on Elan but given the low tempo of this game, I'd rather open it up.

What'd everyone get from Exploring? 

[Just a Silvereye he/him]

Okay then. I'll vote Elandera. Btw, it's not weird to push people to claim while others are saying we should base the exe on claims, if you are also saying that basing the exe on claims doesn't work.

Didn't get anything from exploration, hope you were luckier.

[Lord Spirit he/him]

I explored the basement and found a bloody hemalurgic spike. I'm realizing that it's hard to vote when you don't know how people play. I'll wait until someone gives solid evidence (why are people voting Elandera?).

[Aeternum they/them]

Elandera hedged extremely hard and hit a scumtell, although that part is more of a bonus rather than a read.

All I got from exploring was a bunch of flavor text.

[Aeoryi she/her]

7 hours ago, Kasimir said:

What'd everyone get from Exploring?

No one answered my question (not even Araris) so I simply did not explore as I could not seem to find it in the rules or figure it out.

 

7 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Sart being killed in S1 feels like a textbook shot in some ways. In S3, I instinctively feel he picks a sideways shot, but I’m not the best at understanding how he thinks.

Imo sc1/Sc2 probably? Sart feels more like an Elim kill/bh so

Elandera

[Lego Mistborn he/him]

Sorry about missing the night, I was in Yellowstone all day and thought I had another day let's just say the recluse likes to sleep.

I ended up in the library twice and found nothing either time. (I'm illiterate)

[Elandera she/her]

1 hour ago, Aeoryi said:

No one answered my question (not even Araris) so I simply did not explore as I could not seem to find it in the rules or figure it out.

Exploring at night is what will give us clues as to which scenario we are in. Location no longer matters, so you can just put in a vague explore action, or you can be specific for flavor/RP alone. Certain items that can be found during exploration are tied to the scenarios, which is why exploring and the. claiming what you find is really important.

-----

Leander woke up on the floor of the upstairs hallway, rubbing her head. There was surely a mark left from whatever had knocked her out. 

The house really didn't want her searching that room she'd found on the first night. Her search had seemed endless. She knew there was a room upstairs somewhere. A room with a desk and a four-poster bed. Instead, the hallways seemed to stretch on forever, until she'd found a door. To a closet. 

Disappointing.

As she stood, something shiny caught her eye. Excitement thrummed through her as she reached for it. A clue?!

No. A coin. It has a tiny trace of blood on it's edge, probably from where it had struck her. Was there an errant coinshot somewhere, hiding in closets that should be rooms? Odd, but it didn't actually provide any answers. 

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, Elandera said:

Exploring at night is what will give us clues as to which scenario we are in. Location no longer matters, so you can just put in a vague explore action, or you can be specific for flavor/RP alone. Certain items that can be found during exploration are tied to the scenarios, which is why exploring and the. claiming what you find is really important.

-----

Leander woke up on the floor of the upstairs hallway, rubbing her head. There was surely a mark left from whatever had knocked her out. 

The house really didn't want her searching that room she'd found on the first night. Her search had seemed endless. She knew there was a room upstairs somewhere. A room with a desk and a four-poster bed. Instead, the hallways seemed to stretch on forever, until she'd found a door. To a closet. 

Disappointing.

As she stood, something shiny caught her eye. Excitement thrummed through her as she reached for it. A clue?!

No. A coin. It has a tiny trace of blood on it's edge, probably from where it had struck her. Was there an errant coinshot somewhere, hiding in closets that should be rooms? Odd, but it didn't actually provide any answers. 

Was wondering if you'd claim it and was part of my reason for favouring Aeo over you as my opening vote today.

I flipped a coin between you and Aeo and RBed you.

EDIT:

Still gotta conference today but I'll try to have time for one more catch up.

-Spirit's clue does point to S1/S3 though it's inconclusive. @Lord Spirit are you claiming an Aviar btw?

-A lot of people are failing the 80% exploration chance. A bit weird and makes me wonder if someone is lying.

-My getting the RB did make me wonder if this was an S2 world since I explored the basement. But I also don't care about S2 so...

-I don't take Elan's RB to indicative she can't be Evil but I take it to indicate she wasn't the kill submitter last Night so with other things equal to me, I'd favour Aeo.

-Spirit once again hedging on solid evidence is noteworthy and I'm willing to consider a cheeky Spirit vote.

-I kind of feel it's weird to have Aeo submit a kill over Elan which goes back to my view they don't work super well as a team. Probably a third member scenario but also, Aet's call for a pivot came late enough I'm unable to feel it was super indicative. @Aeternum anyone else you remember was on besides TUN?

Edited 10 hours ago by Kasimir

[Elandera she/her]

48 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Was wondering if you'd claim it and was part of my reason for favouring Aeo over you as my opening vote today.

My claims so far have all been said through RP. I think I mentioned having explored upstairs N0 in my first D1 post, but I might have missed it. I'm trying to keep most of my posts RP because the flavor of the game is largely why I wanted to join.

[Aeternum they/them]

Ok I'm kind of dumb, I got a clue relating to Rithmatic Defense apparently. Probably helps if I had read the set up lol. I believe that's scenario 2?

And no, I don't remember anyone else.

[Elandera she/her]

11 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

Ok I'm kind of dumb, I got a clue relating to Rithmatic Defense apparently. Probably helps if I had read the set up lol. I believe that's scenario 2?

And no, I don't remember anyone else.

7 hours ago, Lord Spirit said:

I explored the basement and found a bloody hemalurgic spike. I'm realizing that it's hard to vote when you don't know how people play. I'll wait until someone gives solid evidence (why are people voting Elandera?).

Well this is concerning. These two items are not found in the same scenario, so one of these two are lying. Bold move for D2.

EDIT:

Sorry, I reread the rules. There's a 33% chance that we can get a clue from the wrong scenario. That makes more sense. So we need more exploration and claims to make a statistical guess, and we haven't narrowed it down at all with these two.

Edited 10 hours ago by Elandera

[Kasimir he/him]

57 minutes ago, Elandera said:

My claims so far have all been said through RP. I think I mentioned having explored upstairs N0 in my first D1 post, but I might have missed it. I'm trying to keep most of my posts RP because the flavor of the game is largely why I wanted to join.

Yeah to be clear I figured you'd RP claim it, I just wanted to see if you'd say it even if I didn't. 

There are probably weak implications about your actions here as I think an Elim is more likely to neglect exploration. I just don't think they are strong.

Have no issue with RP parsing. Just don't have the mental stamina to RP, play, and conference simultaneously. 

[Aeoryi she/her]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Was wondering if you'd claim it and was part of my reason for favouring Aeo over you as my opening vote today.

I flipped a coin between you and Aeo and RBed you.

EDIT:

Still gotta conference today but I'll try to have time for one more catch up.

-Spirit's clue does point to S1/S3 though it's inconclusive. @Lord Spirit are you claiming an Aviar btw?

-A lot of people are failing the 80% exploration chance. A bit weird and makes me wonder if someone is lying.

-My getting the RB did make me wonder if this was an S2 world since I explored the basement. But I also don't care about S2 so...

-I don't take Elan's RB to indicative she can't be Evil but I take it to indicate she wasn't the kill submitter last Night so with other things equal to me, I'd favour Aeo.

-Spirit once again hedging on solid evidence is noteworthy and I'm willing to consider a cheeky Spirit vote.

-I kind of feel it's weird to have Aeo submit a kill over Elan which goes back to my view they don't work super well as a team. Probably a third member scenario but also, Aet's call for a pivot came late enough I'm unable to feel it was super indicative. @Aeternum anyone else you remember was on besides TUN?

I don't even understand where your suspicion of me comes from though

[Lord Spirit he/him]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Was wondering if you'd claim it and was part of my reason for favouring Aeo over you as my opening vote today.

I flipped a coin between you and Aeo and RBed you.

EDIT:

Still gotta conference today but I'll try to have time for one more catch up.

-Spirit's clue does point to S1/S3 though it's inconclusive. @Lord Spirit are you claiming an Aviar btw?

-A lot of people are failing the 80% exploration chance. A bit weird and makes me wonder if someone is lying.

-My getting the RB did make me wonder if this was an S2 world since I explored the basement. But I also don't care about S2 so...

-I don't take Elan's RB to indicative she can't be Evil but I take it to indicate she wasn't the kill submitter last Night so with other things equal to me, I'd favour Aeo.

-Spirit once again hedging on solid evidence is noteworthy and I'm willing to consider a cheeky Spirit vote.

-I kind of feel it's weird to have Aeo submit a kill over Elan which goes back to my view they don't work super well as a team. Probably a third member scenario but also, Aet's call for a pivot came late enough I'm unable to feel it was super indicative. @Aeternum anyone else you remember was on besides TUN?

I’m not claiming an Aviar, statistically speaking, we should have more evidence than me and Aet. (Which currently isn’t helpful as it covers all three scenarios.) I wanted more evidence because I don’t want to kill people I don’t know without good reason. (Which you got mad at me for on day 1). If you want to tell me what I should do, I’m open for advice. You know more about what’s going on than I do. 

[Aeoryi she/her]

3 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

There are probably weak implications about your actions here as I think an Elim is more likely to neglect exploration. I just don't think they are strong.

Why? Wouldn't it be smart for an Elim to explore anyways? It's not like it actively harms them; not exploring just puts you under scrutiny 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Probably a third member scenario but also, Aet's call for a pivot came late enough I'm unable to feel it was super indicative. @Aeternum anyone else you remember was on besides TUN?

A third member in... 10 players?

Typically in many 9, 10 or 11 player games, there's only two evils. It's generally considered a universally standard ratio, and IMO no more than 11 players for 3 Elims, even then that's super elimsided to begin with.

This falls moreso under theory but I vehemently disagree with the idea of hunting a team of 3 when standard balance says 2 Elims.

That's also the reason why I (mostly) eliminated the idea of you being Elim. There wasn't really a partner that you could be paired with, barring Aeternum, so.

Did Alignments distribute on N0 or was everyone a villager

[Elandera she/her]

10 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Wouldn't it be smart for an Elim to explore anyways?

It would be, but they'd also know the scenario so it might fall to the wayside barring actions more important as an elim (like submitting the kill or carrying out any item/role actions they may have received). Exploration is almost solely so we can figure out the scenario, which in the case of S1 or S3, it benefits the elim(s) to have that information take longer to release.

[Aeoryi she/her]

Just now, Elandera said:

It would be, but they'd also know the scenario so it might fall to the wayside barring actions more important as an elim (like submitting the kill or carrying out any item/role actions they may have received). Exploration is almost solely so we can figure out the scenario, which in the case of S1 or S3, it benefits the elim(s) to have that information take longer to release.

But then they just lie about that information? It's not verifiably true anyways, so there's no reason not to explore/claim what you explore

 

[Kasimir he/him]

31 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

I don't even understand where your suspicion of me comes from though

You never left the bleh space. All your posts felt like blatantly lukewarm things that an Elim would say. I saw zero interest in solving. The other issue is that if I assume at least one Elim voted D1, your vote is in the place for it, with Aet just coming across as more Village than you, and it matches your sidetrain patterns.

28 minutes ago, Lord Spirit said:

I’m not claiming an Aviar, statistically speaking, we should have more evidence than me and Aet. (Which currently isn’t helpful as it covers all three scenarios.) I wanted more evidence because I don’t want to kill people I don’t know without good reason. (Which you got mad at me for on day 1). If you want to tell me what I should do, I’m open for advice. You know more about what’s going on than I do. 

Agreed on the statistical. I'm not so much mad at you as trying to understand the mentality that regards the TUN thing as evidence, is willing to exe, but also wants solid evidence. I agree you're new so I don't want to go after you for new player things but this is also...kind of unusual as a new player combination. My concern I suppose is that the other way of joining the dots is to say that you joined a standard D1 vote on TUN, overstated the conviction, and are now more concerned with how you appear. I agree the big issue for me is really just that I don't have a good basis for figuring you out so I'm trying to.

28 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

This falls moreso under theory but I vehemently disagree with the idea of hunting a team of 3 when standard balance says 2 Elims.

Cool, then we disagree about gamesolving approach. It's wonderful that SE allows for more approaches than just MU consensus!

15 minutes ago, Elandera said:

It would be, but they'd also know the scenario so it might fall to the wayside barring actions more important as an elim (like submitting the kill or carrying out any item/role actions they may have received). Exploration is almost solely so we can figure out the scenario, which in the case of S1 or S3, it benefits the elim(s) to have that information take longer to release.

I think they could easily invent something. One thing to note is Elims do tend to overcomply with perceived Village plans. Unsure whether Aeo gets credit for just saying she CBF or not. But all I'm saying is that statistically, I expect Elims to be less interested in scenario solving and more likely to forget because it just doesn't carry the same weight for them as it does for us.

@Araris Valerian Who are on inactivity death row? 

I'm not against pressure on under the radar players but I also don't want to waste time voting on someone who will get PH out or filter killed. 

Silvereye pushing back against Elan today is a little interesting and I can't figure why. I am trying to understand what motivates that para about claiming.

Edited 8 hours ago by Kasimir

[Coffeecat she/her]

Heyooo, I explored and found a gemstone filled with void light. I'm leaning 3rd scenario.

Does this mean we have to look for anyone who suddenly changes tactics? I really don't know how else to find a kandra who was a normal player for most of the game

Would this mean that sart is now living in a kandra doc? Hello sart!! 

[Aeternum they/them]

Unless you can explain to me why there would be 3 elims in a 10 player game, and how that is balanced, I don't think it's ideal to try to hunt for 3 elims.

Running numbers, 3 elims is 7 v 3 -> 5 v 3 immediately endgame on an incorrect vote and NK. Not balanced at all, barring perhaps some insanely strong town PRs and protection etc. It's just really not a viable possibility here, imo.

Aeo seems fine right now, it feels like you're sort of overreacting to her if I'm being honest. More concerned about how fast people followed me to an Elandera wagon.

[Kasimir he/him]

@Lord Spirit Apologies, got ninjaed by Coffee. Maybe this way of explaining is better:

-New players who talk about finding evidence and who are shy of exeing anyone D1 are a logically coherent set. Their fixation on evidence comes from the same mindset that there isn't enough to go off and they emphasise this by wanting certainty. 

-Some new players do just push people D1. Thinking of Bookwyrm, Cinnamon, and a whole lot of people in that game. But comfort with that also precludes evidence talk.

-In your case, you talked about evidence D1 but also that people could talk you out of it. This comes across as being committed but also potentially uncommitted, as though you knew TUO might flip green. Then in reaction to sus, you go back to talking about solid evidence and hesitating. This is what I mean by "there's another way to join the dots." I absolutely think it could be new player things but I'm trying to understand where this fits together in a mindset.

Ngl sudden urge for a cheeky Coffee vote

2 minutes ago, Aeternum said:

Unless you can explain to me why there would be 3 elims in a 10 player game, and how that is balanced, I don't think it's ideal to try to hunt for 3 elims.

Running numbers, 3 elims is 7 v 3 -> 5 v 3 immediately endgame on an incorrect vote and NK. Not balanced at all, barring perhaps some insanely strong town PRs and protection etc. It's just really not a viable possibility here, imo.

I think that's dependent on the role distro. RB is very weak so I've actually been assuming there are probably more out there. This was always going to be a shorter game and I prefer to assume the larger end compared to being the smaller end. I am going to refuse to further engage with anyone who wants to tell me how to approach this—bluntly put, I did not sign up for a MU game and this is the third time I'm being told by players this isn't how it's done on the basis of MU meta. I couldn't care less and it's the sort of thing that reminds me why I prefer to prioritise RL over playing here.

[Elandera she/her]

11 minutes ago, Coffeecat said:

gemstone filled with void light

This puts us at:

• S1 Clues - 1
• S2 Clues - 2 (1 unique clue)
• S3 Clues - 2

Not enough to conclusively say which scenario, but it's leaning away from an elim team. 

[Aeternum they/them]

It's uh, not on the basis of MU meta. I play on four sites. This feels like standard balancing to me, and the numbers don't lie. I'm not an expert at balancing, but this set up doesn't feel like it should be over in 2 game days.

I understand you're not a fan of MU, but this goes outside of that.

And:

Quote

• Lerasium and Metals: Once during the game you can roleblock another player
• Proto-Radiant: A spren has bonded with you, granting you the power to protect another player once during the game. If this fails due to a roleblock, you retain the use of your ability
• Aviar: Exploring the House will always give you a clue, and you will reroll the clue once if it doesn’t match the current scenario

Once per game RB, once per game protection, and reroll clue is unlikely to stand against an elim team of 3, in my opinion. So it just really doesn't feel like a possibility, but I'll respect that you might want to solve into that world.

Those are my thoughts. Moving on /shrug.