MarcieIsForager She/They Posted September 19 Report Share Posted September 19 Do we know if all bondsmiths share the same powerset. Like the surges presented for Bondsmiths like kinda make sense with the Stormfather and the Sibling. But it seems kinda weird that the Nightwatcher/ Cultivations Bondsmith would be able to access Adhesion the same way We know Fused cant, it wouldn't be weird if the Nightwatcher also couldn't. Plus and this is honestly mostly me crackpottng i wouldn't at all be suprised if Navani turned out to be able to Adhesion and Progression as the Siblings Bondsmith and Cultivations Bondsmith Progression and another Surge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted September 19 Report Share Posted September 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, MarcieIsForager said: We know Fused cant, it wouldn't be weird if the Nightwatcher also couldn't. Fused cannot because Odium's number is nine. The 10 Radiant Surges are all a mix of Honor and Cultivation, just in different proportions (otherwise Progressions wouldn;t work with Stormlight, and would require Lifelight). Also Raboniel is very biased, so you can't take what she says as "fact" - it's only her interpretation of something she doesn't quite comprehend. WoBs: Spoiler Quote LettersWords The Fused only use nine of the Surges (they don't use Adhesion), and Raboniel describes Adhesion as "not a true Surge." Does this mean, in its original form on Ashyn, Surgebinding had no equivalent to Adhesion, and it was created by Honor later? Brandon Sanderson That is a valid way of theorizing, and I would encourage you to go that direction. Raboniel is biased. So take those two sentences as separate things. Do be aware she is very, very biased, but also your theorizing could bear fruit going that direction. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) Quote Chaos So, at the Forbidden Planet signing you said that when Adonalsium was Shattered, all Investiture in the cosmere was associated to one of the Shards... So, what happened with Adonalsium's spren on Roshar? Were those associated to Honor and Cultivation? What happened with them? Brandon Sanderson So they were very-- They were already associated to certain parts of Adonalsium and they went with those associations. There's a lot of Cultivation in all of the spren, particularly the natural spren. Footnote: Chaos is referencing this exchange. Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017) Quote Argent (paraphrased) Is Cultivation's Shardholder still alive. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Good question, what do you think? Argent (paraphrased) I want to say, but that's based on my knowledge before I read Lift's interlude from Words of Radiance. Now I am leaning towards no. Based on that interlude, it looks like spren have essence from both Honor and Cultivation. It's almost like they exist in a spectrum, on one end of which is Honor, and on the other - Cultivation; so there are spren that are, for the lack of better example, 90% Honor and 10% Cultivation, and there are spren that are 15% Honor and 85% Cultivation. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) That's a very astute observation! Argent (paraphrased) And since we know that Honor is Splintered, then it might be the case that Cultivation is also Splintered, and their Splinters form the spren. Footnote: Brandon has previously stated that Cultivation's Vessel is in fact alive. Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 5, 2013) Quote Questioner Hi. I have two questions about the Cosmere. The first one is if a Radiant can have a bond with two spren, and the other one is if Truthwatcher spren are related directly with Cultivation or the Nightwatcher? Brandon Sanderson Okay, so RAFO on if a Knight Radiant can have two spren. But the second question was, "Are spren of Cultivation?" One more time? Questioner If the spren of the Truthwatchers are related directly with Cultivation or the Nightwatcher? Or both? Brandon Sanderson So, most of the sapient spren that form the Orders of Knights Radiant are related to a mixture of Honor and Cultivation. Some lean one direction much more than the other, and the spren of the Truthwatchers leans toward Cultivation. Footnote: Brandon has previously said that it's theoretically possible to bond two spren. EuroCon 2016 (Nov. 5, 2016) The exception being the Bondsmith Spren - Specifically Stormfather (Honor) and Nightwatcher (Cultivation). It is likely that all Bondsmiths will have Tension and Adhesion. But their application of those two surges will not necessarily be the same, just as Dalinar's Adhesion is not quite the same as Kaladin's. Hope that helps Edited September 19 by Treamayne SPAG/WoBs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted September 19 Report Share Posted September 19 3 hours ago, MarcieIsForager said: Do we know if all bondsmiths share the same powerset. Like the surges presented for Bondsmiths like kinda make sense with the Stormfather and the Sibling. But it seems kinda weird that the Nightwatcher/ Cultivations Bondsmith would be able to access Adhesion the same way We know Fused cant, it wouldn't be weird if the Nightwatcher also couldn't. Plus and this is honestly mostly me crackpottng i wouldn't at all be suprised if Navani turned out to be able to Adhesion and Progression as the Siblings Bondsmith and Cultivations Bondsmith Progression and another Surge. Yes, we know that all Bondsmith have access to only Adhesion and Tension, but their application may or may not differ depending on the god spren. We know this because of the Surgebinding table from WoK. Navani was able to create Towerlight, while Dalinar can create Stormlight - we have one example of differences between Bondsmiths. But Navani, just like Dalinar, can open her own perpendicularity - that's the Bondsmith power. Spoiler Mage Could Navani open a perpendicularity when she got far enough in her oaths? Brandon Sanderson This is theoretically possible. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) Spoiler Dan Wells Sixth Epoch, Year 31, Shashaches 6.3.1. Bondsmiths Bondsmiths are, well... different. For starters, there are only three of them at a time, because there are only three spren that can grant Bondsmith powers. Seems kind of strange for a Radiant Order whose whole job is to bring people together, right? But, see, that's where the strangeness continues. Every Order takes squires; that's nothing new. But Bondsmiths sometimes have whole groups of servants who swear oaths but gain no powers at all. Can you imagine? I think there's something beautifully pure about that. They might be the only people in any Order who've ever taken the oaths for purely selfless reasons. They can't do any Surgebinding, they don't get spren, they just... take the oaths. Because oaths are important, and the values they swear to uphold are worth upholding. And those values, I admit, are pretty great. Bondsmiths unite things - mostly people, but also governments and kingdoms and armies and everything else. They negotiate treaties, and resolve disputes, and help people to see each other as people, instead of as rivals or foreigners or enemies. Their main power (if you can call it a power) is to help people find common ground, and get them to agree on things, and to make those agreements matter. No matter which of the three spren they bond with (and those three spren can produce some very different textures in the bond), the thing all Bondsmiths share is that they bring people together. They make people feel included and important. Sometimes, they're in the middle of those groups, corralling the actions and holding the attention. Sometimes, they're out on the edges, watching the group they created have new ideas and activities and adventures of their own. Either way, the Bondsmith is happy. #SayTheWords (Feb. 28, 2024) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcieIsForager She/They Posted September 19 Author Report Share Posted September 19 13 minutes ago, alder24 said: Yes, we know that all Bondsmith have access to only Adhesion and Tension, but their application may or may not differ depending on the god spren. We know this because of the Surgebinding table from WoK. Navani was able to create Towerlight, while Dalinar can create Stormlight - we have one example of differences between Bondsmiths. But Navani, just like Dalinar, can open her own perpendicularity - that's the Bondsmith power. So thats kinda the thing that confuses me. So by my understanding of Surgebinding, your onded Spren grant you access to surges. Bondsmiths can do more with given surges because their supercharged. Depending on the makeup of spren they can give you access to different surges. Thats baseline. Here comes my assumption. The makeup of the bondsmith Spren: Stormfather: 100% Honor Sibling: 50/50 Honor/Cultivation Nightwatcher 100% Cultivation Second assumption: Honor and Cultivations Intents aren't compatible enough to share surges unless mixed So ig the question more becomes how would the nightwatcher have access to Honors Surge if not at all invested by Honor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted September 19 Report Share Posted September 19 2 minutes ago, MarcieIsForager said: So thats kinda the thing that confuses me. So by my understanding of Surgebinding, your onded Spren grant you access to surges. Bondsmiths can do more with given surges because their supercharged. Depending on the makeup of spren they can give you access to different surges. Thats baseline. Here comes my assumption. The makeup of the bondsmith Spren: Stormfather: 100% Honor Sibling: 50/50 Honor/Cultivation Nightwatcher 100% Cultivation Second assumption: Honor and Cultivations Intents aren't compatible enough to share surges unless mixed So ig the question more becomes how would the nightwatcher have access to Honors Surge if not at all invested by Honor Well, not exactly. Spren grants access to Surges. But Spren ARE living Surges, they are manifestations of those Surges in living bodies. Each spren type has a different makeup of investiture, that's true, but how does this correspond to Surges? We don't know. Even Surges aren't of Honor or Cultivation. Surges are fundamental forces which exist in the entire Cosmere. Surgebinding just filters them through the Shardic intent, but any Shard can access any Surge - Surges don't belong to Shards, just like gravity doesn't belong to Honor. For example Glys most likely is accessing Surges through the filter of Odium, but it's still the same fundamental power he's using. God Spren are simply different from True Spren. They are massively invested and are strongly tied to their Shards. They represent something greater than Surges and ideals, yet they all give access to the same Surges. There is nothing that would prevent Nightwatcher from accessing Adhesion through Cultivation's filter. Spoiler Thadamin Are spren able to manifest Surges like the humans they are bonded to? Syl is able to stick things together are other types able to do other things or is the sticking things together something else? Brandon Sanderson The Spren are living Surges, in a way. There are some "higher" spren which have more ability than others to touch certain Surges. Honor, for example, is not a force of nature--but a force of thought. What is attributed to it relates more to the abstract. And that didn't really answer you, did it? Well, hopefully it's enough. Phantine Is them being living Surges the same as how seons are living Aons? Brandon Sanderson Similar. /r/books AMA 2015 (July 17, 2015) Spoiler Dragon13 Syl identifies herself as an honorspren. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Dragon13 Would Wyndle identify himself as a cultivation spren? Brandon Sanderson He would definitely... Yes. I think you could say that he would. Dragon13 By the same logic, would a voidspren follow the same naming convention, so to speak? Brandon Sanderson Here's the thing. Certain spren have decided that they are the most pure forms of Honor, or that they are the most pure form of whatever, where all of them are kind of... Syl's got a good argument for what she is. But there are other spren that would be like "well, I'm an honorspren too, I'm just this variety of honorspren." Does that make sense? Syl's like "I'm an American!" and I'm like "I'm an Nebraskan!" Yes, you're an American. I'm an American too. It's kind of similar to that. But she would be the most pure... many would view her as the purest form. Wyndle would view himself as the purest form of a Cultivationspren. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) Spoiler Questioner It was mentioned that there are 16 gods in your Cosmere. Brandon Sanderson Depends on your definition of god. Questioner Shards. Are the ten orders of the Knight Radiants related to specific gods? Because Honor, child of Honor-Kaladin Brandon Sanderson So all the magic on Roshar, all the surgebinding on Roshar, is going to have its roots in Honor and Cultivation. Um... There is some Odium influence too, but that’s mostly voidbinding, which is the map in the back of the first book. Questioner I was wondering how much- Brandon Sanderson But, but even the powers, it’s, it’s really this sort of thing. What’s going in Stormlight is that people are accessing fundamental forces of creation and laws of the universe. They’re accessing them through the filter of Cultivation and Honor. So, that’s not to say, on another world you couldn’t have someone influence gravity. Honor doesn’t belong to gravity. But bonds, and how to deal with bonds, and things like this, is an Honor thing. So the way Honor accesses gravity is, you make a bond between yourself and either a thing or a direction or things like that and you go. So it’s filtered through Honor’s visual, and some of the magics lean more Honor and some them lean more Cultivation, as you can obviously see, in the way that they take place. Questioner The question kind of rooted because, Wyndle in the short story is always saying that he’s a cultivationspren, he doesn’t like [...]. I kind of got the idea that each order had a different Shard. Brandon Sanderson That is a good thing to think, but that is not how it is. Some of them self-identify more in certain ways. Syl is an honorspren, that’s what they call a honorspren, they self-identify as the closest to Honor. Is that true? Well, I don’t know. For instance, you might talk to different spren, who are like, no, highspren are like “We’re the ones most like Honor. We are the ones that keep oaths the best. Those honorspren will let their people break their oaths if they think it’s for a good cause. That’s not Honor-like.” There would be disagreement. Questioner Are you saying that the spren’s view of themself influences how they work? Brandon Sanderson Oh yeah, and humans’ view of them because spren are pieces of Investiture who have gained sapience, or sentience for the smaller spren, through human perception of those forces. For instance, whether or not Kaladin is keeping an oath is up to what Syl and Kaladin think is keeping that oath. It is not related to capital-T Truth, what is actually keeping the oath. Two windrunners can disagree on whether an oath has been kept or not. Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted September 19 Report Share Posted September 19 13 minutes ago, MarcieIsForager said: Here comes my assumption. The makeup of the bondsmith Spren: Stormfather: 100% Honor Sibling: 50/50 Honor/Cultivation Nightwatcher 100% Cultivation Second assumption: Honor and Cultivations Intents aren't compatible enough to share surges unless mixed That's the part of the assumption that is unlikely to be true. Spren allow access to surges because of Connection. It just so happens that each of the 9 Radiant Spren species (?) also happen to have a specific ratio of Honor/Cultivation (ranging from 10/90 to 90/10). The three Bondsmith Spren are also Connected to the their surges - not because of their percentage of Splinter Investiture, but because of how Surgebinding was "adjusted" by the arrival of Honor and Cultivation in the system after the Shattering. Shards do not tend to "create" their Manifestation of Investiture (Tanavast and Kora didn't decide "we want it to work this way") - the magic develops as a consequence of factors relating to the Shards, their Intent(s), the Planet, and probably other factors we do not yet know. WoBs: Spoiler Quote asmodeus You've said before that a lot of the magics we see across the cosmere come from an interaction of Shards and their Investiture with the planets they Invest in. What does this mean practically? If Scadrial explodes tomorrow, will Hemalurgy stop working across the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson Hemalurgy wouldn't stop working, most likely, but it could. There are ways that you could make it stop working. I kind of mean that the Shards are an innate part of physics in the cosmere, and the magics that arise are an innate part of physics because of that. Like atium seeped out into the Pits of Hathsin, in the same way, these magics are just gonna leak out, and different places are going to affect them. You'll see Lightweaving happening in different places, and the way the Shard is interacting with the local... The way the Shard is is going to affect how Lightweaving is administrated in the various magics, but it's still gonna be there. Hemalurgy is kind of a similar thing to that. You will see Midnight Essence, you will see some of these recurring ideas popping up, and these are like natural parts of the physics, but they're influenced by the Shards on the local planets. I don't know if that answer, that's gonna be a really fun one for them to transcribe into the Q&A thing, because I go around in circles on that question a ton. Put this part in when you do it. Footnote: It was a really fun one. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) Quote Questioner You have talked about writing a book about Ashyn, the first planet in the Rosharan system. You said that they have a magic system based on disease, but they are currently without a Shard. Can you tell us what the source of that magic system is? Brandon Sanderson A lot of the magic systems in the cosmere, I kind of in my head differentiate kind of the primary worlds and the secondary worlds. And even on the secondary worlds, there is magic. And any place that a Shard has been in presence is gonna leave behind an aftereffect, but it's not always that. I would call most of the magic on Ashyn Cultivation-based, most likely. And Cultivation's in the system, but has only briefly been to that planet. But it doesn't mean that... basically, it's kind of the level of Investiture. If you go to Scadrial, on Scadrial, you're gonna have a high percentage of the population, cosmereologically, that are gonna have access to one of the Hemalurgic [Metallic] arts, right? Same thing on Roshar. And indeed, the people are going to be Invested on a level that is beyond the others. This is my in-world canon reason that people just don't come down with colds very often or have tooth decay very often, and things like that. On the primary Shardworlds, we're talking about people who are just naturally, highly Invested. All the other worlds, though, you're still gonna have the occasional pop-up of magic, here and there. You're still gonna have effects of being in the cosmere, and things like that. Just much smaller chances. And the magic's probably going to be less likely to be planet-destroying potential, and things like that, like happened on Ashyn. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 23, 2021) Quote Questioner I'm trying to understand the relationship between Hemalurgy and the Shard Ruin. Most of the Invested Arts involve inputs of energy of the Shardic Investiture that corresponds to it. That doesn't seem to be the case for Feruchemy and Hemalurgy. So I'm wondering what the relationship is between the corresponding Shards and those two Metallic Arts. Brandon Sanderson There's a whole lot going on here, and I'm not sure how much I can get into right here. But one of the basic concepts I built for the cosmere, way back when, was that a lot of the different magics would be showing up in different systems. And there are certain underpinning fundamental rules. And this is why you'll see Lightweaving working the same way across three different magic systems; I think you've seen it in three different ones so far. Elsecalling's gonna work the same way. Hemalurgy is a thing that is, like, part of the nature of the cosmere, that the Shard simply knew and was able to tell people how to do So is it of that Shard? Well, yes, because you would have to be following that Shard's Intent in order to use it. But it could be discovered on other planets, as well. Questioner And independent of Ruin's presence, really, except for as Ruin affects the cosmere as a whole? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Exactly. You are correct. Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022) Hope that helps 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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