Twinborn Soulforger?

[Sythrin]

It seems from what I have read in "Emperor's Soul" that anybody can learn Soulforgery. The only point probably is that you can only learn it on Sel, near the rose kingdom (if I remember the name correctly), as selish magic is based on dominum and distance.

So if we had a Twinborn with A-Gold and F-Aluminum. Could they become the best soulforger there exists? They could burn gold to see alternative believable paths of their self, which could help massivly creating your own soulstamp. And they could store their identity to make themselfs easier to be influenced by soulfrogery. They could probably even create alterantive Twinborn selfs of themselfs, as all it takes is to win the genetic lottery, which they already did and only have to swap their powers temporarily out. Who knows, maybe they can even make themselfs a full feruchemist or Mistborn, as it is just a game of chance.

Or could they even store the identity of a stamp inside an aluminnum metalmind, to use it later, instead of a stamp.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Sythrin said:

It seems from what I have read in "Emperor's Soul" that anybody can learn Soulforgery.

This premise is not correct, despite what Shai thinks (she just does not have enough international experience to know better).  WoBs:

Spoiler

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Questioner

So, most of your magic systems are limited to only a slight portion of the population. Is that a conscious decision? Are there any that are open to anybody?

Brandon Sanderson

Certainly, the Warbreaker magic is open to everybody, and that's part of what I was doing, was I wanted to contrast the other ones. And this is just because it makes for good storytelling, honestly. And when I do this, I'm doing it too much, I go the other way. That's why Sixth of the Dusk is open to everyone, that's why different things are done differently in the magics. But, really, when I'm working on the books, I'm like, "Well, we need something dramatic and cool." And I would argue that at least some of them, such as in Stormlight Archive, those are open to anybody if you can convince a spren. And you're sincere, right? And I like going that direction. Certainly, the kind of old standby of "you're born with it" is really easy. It's really, what we call in Sci-Fi/Fantasy "grokkable." You can instantly, kind of, get it. You're like, "All right, this is just like a talent. Some people are born with different talents. Makes sense." It doesn't take a lot of explanation, you don't have to worldbuild a ton up front. Where something like Stormlight, you gotta send a lot of worldbuilding words to explain how it happens, why it happens, things like that. But the trade-off is, it's in many ways more satisfying if you do it the other way. So, I do try to balance those. But sometimes those short-hands are very handy.

Questioner

Is Forgery?

Brandon Sanderson

Forgery is a Selish magic system, so it is birth-based, tied to location.

Oathbringer Chicago signing (Nov. 21, 2017)

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Questioner

The warrior monks in Elantris, are they a non-genetic magic system?

Brandon Sanderson

So here's the thing in Elantris. On Sel, you most usually need to be born in a certain location for the magic to work on you from that region. So, it's not genetic, meaning if you move there, your children count, right? Regardless of what your genetic heritage and things like that is. But it is regional.

Questioner

For Dakhor monks, wasn't it that they went to monasteries and trained over time and then they're...?

Brandon Sanderson

So they do have something done to them that does this. But where they're from is directly related to how that works, how powerful it is, and these sorts of things.

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

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Questioner

With Forgery and ChayShan, can anybody from that country do them?

Brandon Sanderson

Forge? No.

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

 

She likely would not have been able to Reseal, had she tried (she mentioned not trying) if Resealing uses a differnt Setting Mark (it is unclear in the text, but does not make sense that the Grands would use a MaiPon shaped setting mark for their MoI). 

Now, if Scadrian Worldhoppers resettled in MaiPon, and their child happened to be Twinborn. . . that may be different as the clild would have teh Metallic Arts genetic Heritage and the local heritage of being born in MaiPon. 

Spoiler

Moshe Awestriker

The Investiture on Scadrial is genetic. If someone was born from two different Mistborns on a different planet could they be Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

Hope that helps

Edited 9 hours ago by Treamayne
SPAG

[Trusk'our he/him]

9 hours ago, Sythrin said:

So if we had a Twinborn with A-Gold and F-Aluminum. Could they become the best soulforger there exists? They could burn gold to see alternative believable paths of their self, which could help massivly creating your own soulstamp. And they could store their identity to make themselfs easier to be influenced by soulfrogery. They could probably even create alterantive Twinborn selfs of themselfs, as all it takes is to win the genetic lottery, which they already did and only have to swap their powers temporarily out. Who knows, maybe they can even make themselfs a full feruchemist or Mistborn, as it is just a game of chance.

Yes, gold shadows are useful for making Soulstamps and blanking Identity makes it easier to Forge you. As such, the Forger would have a significant advantage over self-manipulation via Forgery than anyone else. 

However, we have a WoB directly saying that, unfortunately, you cannot Forge an Allomancer to have different powers. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/96-holiday-signing/#e3197

Questioner

Could a Forger re-write their history to adjust the kind of metal they burn as an Allomancer?

Brandon Sanderson

They could, but it actually wouldn't do anything, because the magic would not be able to replicate the other magic.

Questioner

So they would not be able to re-write history in the necessary way?

Brandon Sanderson

They would not be able to. I mean they could, but it wouldn’t have an effect, does that make sense? It would do nothing, it would be like you can create the stamp, the stamp would look like it was working but you just wouldn't end up with Allomancy.

 There is a more recent WoB countering this somewhat, saying that you merely need an extra infusion of Investiture from an external source, so maybe the Connection isn't an issue and it's more a matter of needing lots of raw power, something Forgery typically lacks.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479-dragonsteel-mini-con-2021/#e15205

Aneesh

If there's a Forger like Shai who plausibly had an opportunity to ingest lerasium and become Mistborn, but she passed it up, could she create a stamp that makes her temporarily a Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

She would have to have access to enough Investiture to make that happen. The stamp saying, "Hey, I'm a Mistborn!" doesn't actually give her the Investiture to do that. She could rewrite her past so that she took that bead. She would not actually be able to use the power, until she got an infusion of Investiture, which could be done with a stamp in the right manner, but most of the time you're gonna have to have some external source. Basically you're gonna have to take a hit of Investiture, a large amount of it, and then use the stamp, and then it will feed on that to change you into basically any of the other magics.

Aneesh

Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

If you could get a hit of Stormlight, that'd work. The problem is, Stormlight's not easy to get off of Roshar, and it still is technically keyed. You could get it a lot more easily-- Stormlight would work fairly well, but what you really want is some pure, unkeyed Dor. That stuff, you could do all kinds of things with. But, you know, it's kinda dangerous. But that's the stuff you're gonna want, or something like unto it.

 

9 hours ago, Sythrin said:

Or could they even store the identity of a stamp inside an aluminnum metalmind, to use it later, instead of a stamp.

Personally, I don't think so.

I don't know that aluminum can hold an Invested charge at all, so blanking might be the only possibility for a Trueself Ferring. I think that a Soulstamp's effects are also way beyond the scope of just Identity, so even if you could store in an Aluminumind you wouldn't keep the effects. 

Still, for vanilla Forgery you have a pretty big edge, so it's still a good combo, if rather difficult to occur naturally. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Trusk'our