WaT Chapters 14 / 15

[Wanguu He/Him]

22 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Or another option - small piercings. He can just burn everything that pierces his skin. While it's definitely possible he could power it with Towerlight, Metallic Arts were said to be harder to fuel by external sources. Unkeying Towerlight might be required, even for Hoid. I think it's hard to say how he powered his Allomancy at this moment.

Don't we see Hoid pouring metal into his drink in the Shallan flashback? Why can it not just be metal that he already had consumed?

[alder24]

13 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I think that line of thinking was more about being able to give gems of towerlight to Radiants before they leave, rather than relying on Stormlight alone. That makes sense to me as Dalinar is probably too busy to be refilling spheres all the time, and is only one man. He cant be at every battle to refuel. If Navani found a way to make Towerlight last as long as Stormlight in gems, they would be able to refuel Radiants a lot easier. 

They only critically need Stormlight during a battle, before and after it they have plenty of it because of Highstorms. They aren't restricted by the amout of light (yet) but by the amount of gemstones. Having another infinite source of investiture gives them nothing if they don't have enough gemstones to make a difference. 

13 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I would think the Dawnshard effects would prevent him from piercing himself. 

IF he considers this a harm. 

Spoiler

Questioner

I have a question about Hoid. If he was previously a Dawnshard that prevented him from hurting himself or others, how could he use a hemalurgic spike on himself?

Brandon Sanderson

We don't know that he has.

Questioner

But would he be able to?

Brandon Sanderson

I think there is a way he could get around that if he needed to. Basically, he has to convince himself that this isn't actually hurting him, it's helping him.

Questioner

Similar to how he could do damage to Cognitive Shadows, because they're not really...

Brandon Sanderson

Yep, exactly.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

 

10 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

Don't we see Hoid pouring metal into his drink in the Shallan flashback? Why can it not just be metal that he already had consumed?

We did and you might be right. However this might mean that Hoid is constantly high on metals and has to drink them everyday to resupply himself (as they will eventually be expelled from his body) which is something he probably doesn't do (as evident by the flashback you've mentioned). But who knows him, maybe he's on high alert now because he found out Ghostbloods got to him or something. 

[basement_boi he/him]

18 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

Don't we see Hoid pouring metal into his drink in the Shallan flashback? Why can it not just be metal that he already had consumed?

Because some of the metals, like pewter, can give heavy metal poisoning, which I think is why the question came up in the first place. It’s also possible that Hoid just isn’t affected by it, though since he’s special.

[Ailvara]

2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Agreed. I have seen the Adolin as Odiums champion theory, and until this passage, I saw no evidence that could happen.

There was never any hard evidence (understandably), but there was possible foreshadowing on a similar level as this passage. Just lately someone pointed out to me RoW chapter 21. Not only Adolin and Dalinar have there a heated discussion that shows the same anger Adolin has towards Dalinar, but they argue specifically about how Adolin might think too much like, of all people, Taravangian.  It'd be perfect as foreshadowing, because it's so easy to miss on first read, and gets a whole new dimension on reread.

As for possibility, well, since Kaladin almost succumbed to Odium in RoW, I'm convinced it's possible for almost anyone to become OC, as long as Odium sets his eyes on them, and has the smallest lever which he can start pulling.

Edited Monday at 08:04 PM by Ailvara

[alder24]

Just now, basement_boi said:

Because some of the metals, like pewter, can give heavy metal poisoning, which I think is why the question came up in the first place. It’s also possible that Hoid just isn’t affected by it, though since he’s special.

Metal poisoning doesn't affect Allomancers, they are too different for this - Kelsier simply had no idea about this. Hoid can heal any damage done to him, including a Shardblade cut and a decapitation - metal poisoning won't do anything to him even if Allomancy wasn't protecting him from this.

Spoiler

rederel

Now i'm morbidly curious whether u/mistborn has considered it [cadmium poisoning] while writing his books.

Brandon Sanderson

I have, actually. Though I had to consider it for other metals first. I decided that allomancers are immune to these kinds of effects--they're just physiologically different in that regard.

General Reddit 2021 (June 11, 2021)

 

Spoiler

Pinpoint (paraphrased)

If Hoid got beheaded, would his body grow a new head?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Pinpoint (paraphrased)

What if Hoid got cut by a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The Shardblade cuts the soul and what Hoid does heals the soul.

Words of Radiance release party (March 3, 2014)

 

[Nesh he/him]

Well, that escalated quickly.  I'm still not sold on Adolin being Odium's champion.  Yeah, he has issues with Dalinar, but the Champion has to be willing, and I would think that would include knowing they're going to be part of the contest.  I just don't see him selling all of Roshar down river to have it out with his dad.  Gavinor seems more likely.  He does want to "play swords" with Dalinar... 

[+mdross81 he/him]

Fairly minor point, but didn’t it feel like we got a higher-than-average number of newly-named minor characters?

Pabolon - Dalinar’s door guard

Hendit - of the Cobalt Guard (“A man with discretion to match his general poise.”) who comes to get Jasnah

Hakindar - Shallan and Adolin’s room steward (love that Adolin’s room steward is a man who knows his soaps)

Kelen - described as the Windrunner squire who had “come to fetch Dalinar” which is weird because I thought that earlier the squire had been called Pabolon? (Edit - nevermind, I misread. Pabolon was a door guard, not the WR squire who came to get Dalinar)

Mararin - Gavinor’s nursemaid

 

Edited Monday at 09:40 PM by mdross81
Clarifying earlier confusion

[listerfeend]

17 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Metal poisoning doesn't affect Allomancers, they are too different for this - Kelsier simply had no idea about this.

There was a line in MB1 where Kelsier talks about Mistborn needing to purge their metals before they sleep, because they can get sick, so if WoB says otherwise, that is really frustrating. I do get a little tired of canon being established in hard to find WoB's. Even if that isn't a problem, there is still the fact that they would pass through his digestive system. Your point earlier about piercings could account for it, but it doesn't really seem like the Alethi are very piercing prone, so I sort of feel like Jasnah would have mentioned something about piercings, if that were the case. That might be spoon feeding us too much for a Brando Sando book, and we may find out that he does in one of those WoB's I just mentioned at a later date, but I do really like the idea of him using Towerlight, or some other Investiture source, to power it.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, listerfeend said:

There was a line in MB1 where Kelsier talks about Mistborn needing to purge their metals before they sleep, because they can get sick, so if WoB says otherwise, that is really frustrating. I do get a little tired of canon being established in hard to find WoB's.

Keep in mind, what's in the books is filtered through the understanding of people. Kelsiar was taught to do this because Allomancers back then believed this to be true.

Spoiler

[...]

Peter Ahlstrom

Remember that what's in the books is filtered through the understanding of the characters. So even if Brandon planned it from the beginning, if the characters didn't know about it, it's not going to come out in the book.

General Reddit 2022 (Dec. 4, 2022)

Sure, remembering all canon information from WoBs might be hard, but that's why we are here to help each other out. Vast majority of WoBs are canon so this simply can't be avoided.

[The Stick]

I am shocked.

To begin, I really doubt that Cultivation will tell Dalinar anything. She has gone this long while lying to everyone, I think she will have some other nonsense. If she does tell him, I honestly just want Dalinar to punch her in the face and say "After all the grief you've given us all, you were imbecilic enough to give Storming Taravangian a Shard!!!"

Is there any evidence that some of the Fused counted are anything but Lighteweavings made by the masked ones. While I get more and more Fused are waking, I kind of think that that many Fused has not been at all previously supported.

As for the parables, I do not think that any of the language stuff is literal, it is a highly symbolic book, literally in a parable. I don't think that is canon Nohadon.

I did not think Fen was nearly so old. I don't recall her being described as old at all in the books, especially when Taravangian's age was very highlighted. 

The Hoid scene was amazing to me, but I am questioning why he was doing a steel bubble for no reason. I took it as him basically doing a systems check on all his powers, which includes his physicality changing. I wouldn't be surprised if he did some Lightweavers stuff or other magics in the background. I think that the Hoid stuff is way more important that the three imminent invasions. As for who he wants to talk too, my question is who in the Cosmere knows as much as Hoid. I figure you have the original vessels, some dragons, aether's, and maybe Silver light people. My money is on this being the Valor name-drop.

 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

3 hours ago, listerfeend said:

So, interesting thing @CtrlAltDepressed and I were just speaking about. Hoid wakes up, and has Allomantic Metals ready to go? I know poisoning from the metals wouldn't even register as a passing thought to Hoid, but he still digests...so is he constantly re-upping his supply of metals every day? Does he "selectively" digest stuff, and therefore doesn't digest the metals? OR the most interesting thought, was he able to power ALL of that with Towerlight? If anyone we've seen on screen can do something like that, it would be him, and that would be absolutely astounding.

Hoid is a Lightweaver. Their second Surge is Soulcasting. Hoid has a constant supply of metals if he needs them.

[Kesamijr]

6 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Jasnah said that he went through a physical change....not an illusory one. What does this mean? Is hoid substantiating like shallan? Is this similar to Returned changing their appearance?

Im interested to see where Navani and Sibling head. The disagreement between them and Navani being trapped at the tower seem to be setting up bigger things. 

It struck me as returned-esque too? On my reread, Shallan specifically mentions that the hair of her and Adolin’s child would be “weird” before cutting herself off in early book Shallan fashion. That, plus the girl who looked up, makes me feel like (in conjunction with the Chana Davar theory) Shallan has the Royal Locks. We also know that the Idrians and Denth/Vasher do, so to me, it’s always felt like: the Royal Locks are the result of being descended from CS. CS can totally change their shape. This is where Hoid potentially comes in? His famous “I began life as words on a page” implies he might actually BE a cognitive shadow (or descendent of one) to me? Considering he, CS and descendants of CS are the only ones we’ve seen change physical form (not in an illusory way) this struck me as that, a CS changing his physical form.

Also the Navani being trapped makes me wonder about the “Urithiru is a spaceship” theory, and hope we get to see it flying out in space with her as the Starfleet commander lolol. Definitely feels like Arc 1 could end with them losing Roshar, shooting spaceship Urithiru out into space and beginning and interplanetary refugee journey. 

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

I was expecting interlude 3, but we’re sadly getting straight into Day 2. And wow, that’s a lot of PoV characters. Like, ALL of them. 

And that’s an interesting choice, the Way of Kings is back in the epigraphs. I wonder what’s inside - will we find the Words Gavilar missed? Oh yeah, definitely judging that the very first paragraphs were about Gavilar. 

All of them except Venli and I’m crying in Willshaper

 

And I agree! I postulated Nohadon as the WaT author and this made that even a little firmer for me!

[coolsnow7]

I just want to register that, just in case the foreshadowing that Gavilar will make some sort of comeback in this book wasn’t clear enough, Brandon is absolutely screaming to us that that’s happening in this chapter.

[Mayalaran]

Hey umm so what about Jasna's past? Lets talk about that. Padded walls and everything, I mean that's pretty extreme.

[Nesh he/him]

6 hours ago, alder24 said:

I was expecting interlude 3, but we’re sadly getting straight into Day 2

I wasn't surprised, they only listed two characters in the Interlude introductions.

[coolsnow7]

6 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Agreed. I have seen the Adolin as Odiums champion theory, and until this passage, I saw no evidence that could happen.

Come on everybody. I expect better from the premier theorists of this forum.

Odium isn’t about to convince Adolin to be his champion. That’s like speculating that Dalinar is going to pick Cultivation to be his champion - it makes no sense, and would have required some sort of character development in that direction spanning the past 4 books. Kaladin’s depression translating into hatred of lighteyes was developed since the absolute first moment we met him, all so that he could be an abortive champion - not even the actual choice!

Now while Adolin might not fight his father to the death, it’s not implausible that he’d wind up rejecting his leadership. And we have a whole bunch of vulnerabilities to Dalinar from that direction, particularly if Gavilar makes some sort of comeback. And, we have Hoid pointing out in RoW that the contest isn’t really a fight but a battle for “the hearts and minds of men” - which is to say that Dalinar losing the allegiance of his side would spell defeat.

I think this is building up to a rejection of Dalinar as leader of Roshar, leaving him truly alone when he fights Odium.

[Chipotle He/Him]

45 minutes ago, coolsnow7 said:

I think this is building up to a rejection of Dalinar as leader of Roshar, leaving him truly alone when he fights Odium.

I guess this could be part of the reason for the three pronged attack on the coalition. If successful it would be a huge blow to morale. Potentially making the other leaders doubt that Dalinar is fit to lead them, due to not being able to successfully counter the attack.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

55 minutes ago, coolsnow7 said:

Come on everybody. I expect better from the premier theorists of this forum.

While personally I agree that Gavilar is due to return as the Champion (despite there being little to no evidence of that happening), it is fun to speculate wildly.

Sometimes the wild theories end up being correct

[The Stick]

1 hour ago, coolsnow7 said:

Come on everybody. I expect better from the premier theorists of this forum.

Odium isn’t about to convince Adolin to be his champion. That’s like speculating that Dalinar is going to pick Cultivation to be his champion - it makes no sense, and would have required some sort of character development in that direction spanning the past 4 books. Kaladin’s depression translating into hatred of lighteyes was developed since the absolute first moment we met him, all so that he could be an abortive champion - not even the actual choice!

Now while Adolin might not fight his father to the death, it’s not implausible that he’d wind up rejecting his leadership. And we have a whole bunch of vulnerabilities to Dalinar from that direction, particularly if Gavilar makes some sort of comeback. And, we have Hoid pointing out in RoW that the contest isn’t really a fight but a battle for “the hearts and minds of men” - which is to say that Dalinar losing the allegiance of his side would spell defeat.

I think this is building up to a rejection of Dalinar as leader of Roshar, leaving him truly alone when he fights Odium.

To this regard, I believe the terms of the deal said that Dalinar represents everyone in the Coalition. If Todium gets the Coalition to reject him, then does the deal hold?

[bmcclure7]

Ok why in damnation chapter called passionspren I mean, does anyone have any ideas? Because there was nothing in it about passionspren Did I miss something or is Brandon hiding something? we know he doesn’t make titles arbitrarily so anyone have any idea?

[Nesh he/him]

Just now, bmcclure7 said:

Ok why in damnation chapter called passionspren I mean, does anyone have any ideas? Because there was nothing in it about passionspren Did I miss something or is Brandon hiding something? we know he doesn’t make titles arbitrarily so anyone have any idea?

The Passionspren showed up when Adolin and Shallan were in the shower.

[coolsnow7]

55 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

While personally I agree that Gavilar is due to return as the Champion (despite there being little to no evidence of that happening), it is fun to speculate wildly.

Sometimes the wild theories end up being correct

That, I certainly agree with!

[Aon Tia she/her]

15 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

Next Chapter:

A road trip to Shinovar 

And the after that: Szeth backflash!

 

15 hours ago, listerfeend said:

I'm betting that Navani and the Sibling are going to come up with fabrial tech 3.0, some kind of mix between the trapping non-consenting spren and the inefficient use of consenting ones. I'll bet that is going to be even more powerful/efficient than either of the two before

Love the Idea and I think they absolutely need a new way of doing things, especially after we know that Oathgate spren wanting freedom, they do feel trapped! May be they can get the spren to volunteer but have them rotating so no one spren is trapped for all eternity! 

 

15 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

If she does tell him, I expect Dalinar to be LIVID.

Dalinar! Wit will be LIVID! Dont forget that Wit is on his way! Would love to see Wit and Cultivation interact!

15 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Dal: 'You're telling me you had the opportunity to shatter a vessel-less shard, and instead you provided a much more capable and terrifying opponent?'

I dont think that you can let a Shard like Odium splinter! I think it will lead to devastating results!

 

Day 2 has just started and it is already insane! So many people were not sleeping, Coalition is facing three-front attack, Wit has lost it, Adolin is like really angry and Gavinor is having nightmares- both indicating towards Odium Champion theories that I dont like. 
well atleast Cultivation is not wasting any time and already showed up at Urithiru! Atleast, Taravangians dirty secret will be out. Hope so!  

 

[Wyndle88 he/him]

If one is invested enough to achieve 'Perfect Pitch' then their snores would come out as whistles. Not snoring but a whistling while sleeping spouse would be equally annoying!

[+Oltux72 he/him]

7 hours ago, coolsnow7 said:

Now while Adolin might not fight his father to the death, it’s not implausible that he’d wind up rejecting his leadership. And we have a whole bunch of vulnerabilities to Dalinar from that direction, particularly if Gavilar makes some sort of comeback. And, we have Hoid pointing out in RoW that the contest isn’t really a fight but a battle for “the hearts and minds of men” - which is to say that Dalinar losing the allegiance of his side would spell defeat.

I think this is building up to a rejection of Dalinar as leader of Roshar, leaving him truly alone when he fights Odium.

In 8 days? Against a group of people who are not idiots? While the Knights Radiant still control the Oathgates, have all the magic and most of the shard blades? They'd have to switch sides. It's too late for that, once they are already occupied.

Now if you really want to put Dalinar in a tight spot and get Adolin to rebel instantly, you won't pick Gavilar or a child. You'd pick Dalinar's first wife respectively Adolin's mother.