Chapters 16, 17 & 18

[BinarySecond]

https://reactormag.com/read-wind-and-truth-by-brandon-sanderson-chapters-16-17-and-18/

 

Shardplate armour feats tech tree unlocked!

Surprisingly candid Cultivation moment, but Dalinar seems fully aware that "Unite them" is an ever changing request.

Looking forward to Adolin and Dalinar having it out eventually. Yanagawn is actually a great leader - He's very wise for his age and position.

I wonder how long it will take them to figure out it's Taravangian in charge of Odium,

Edited Monday at 03:35 PM by BinarySecond

[the_archduke]

16 creationspren make up her armor.  That can't be a coincidence.

[BinarySecond]

Just now, the_archduke said:

16 creationspren make up her armor.  That can't be a coincidence.

I didn't even think to count the creation spren in the sketch. The difference between spren number and sections vs segments is also interesting.

[therunner he/him]

4 minutes ago, BinarySecond said:

I wonder how long it will take them to figure out it's Taravangian in charge of Odium

It did not take long

Other notes:

• I feel you Dalinar, Shards are so storming indirect. Also, I feel my theory on Cultivation shaping new (and improved) Vessels got slight boost, plug
• And Dalinar goes to SR as well, we will learn quite a bit I think.
• Also, it seems there were other Visions that Stormfather chose not to show Dalinar. He probably showed them to Gavilar, and considers that a mistake.
• Adolin is really angry with Dalinar, I don't like that.
• Loophole is...not anything we could have expected, but it makes sense from Alethi martial perspective.
• Ghostbloods are hiding outside of Urithiru, smart of them.
• I like this more compassionate Shallan, she was always there, but now it takes forefront.

 

[BinarySecond]

4 minutes ago, therunner said:

• Also, it seems there were other Visions that Stormfather chose not to show Dalinar. He probably showed them to Gavilar, and considers that a mistake.

I suspect Gavilar saw visions of the Heralds, he was obsessed with them.

I want Shallan to be successful against Mraize really badly.

[therunner he/him]

9 minutes ago, BinarySecond said:

I suspect Gavilar saw visions of the Heralds, he was obsessed with them.

Yeah, I think so too.
Would explain why Stormfather chose not to show those specific visions.

Quote

I want Shallan to be successful against Mraize really badly.

Same here, but sadly I suspect all she will find at Narak is that they have headstart on getting to BAM.
After all, it would not be much of a race if your protagonists are in the lead.

[the_archduke]

Someone is going to be a new holder of Honor by the end of the book.  Dalinar, Kaladin, or Taravangian are my guesses.

[BinarySecond]

Just now, the_archduke said:

Someone is going to be a new holder of Honor by the end of the book.  Dalinar, Kaladin, or Taravangian are my guesses.

Will Dalinar still be bound to serve Odium if he ascends but still loses? That would be interesting. 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

44 minutes ago, BinarySecond said:

I wonder how long it will take them to figure out it's Taravangian in charge of Odium,

Well, considering that they think Taravangian got nommed by Nightblood, and Cultivation just doesn't seem keen on giving out that particular nugget of information, even though it would be very useful. So not anytime soon.

Something that is very interesting is the 'Core' of Honor, since the Shard is Splintered but isn't completely gone. I'd have thought that the Stormfather was all that was left of the Shard, but apparently not. I guess it makes sense since the Well of Ascension was described as a 'Sliver' of Preservation's power, and yet it still held enough power to move the planet and remake it easily, yet all the Stormfather can do is limited to the Highstorm, that doesn't seem like it truly equates for a being that supposedly holds the 'majority' of Honor's power.

So many interesting plotlines, it's insane we're getting it all in one book. 

[Diomedes]

Feels so good to have old Shallan from WoR back.

We know the actual loophole now, but my guess is, there is a second one, they have not figuered out yet.

The Reshi king feels like a spuy or assassin in disguise. Nobody knows how the actual king of the Reshi islands looks like exactly. 

[Subvisual Haze]

Stormfather back to being very sus.  It seems like Cultivation timed her arrival and words to purposefully slip past the Stormfather's attention.

[Bnaya]

10 minutes ago, Diomedes said:

The Reshi king feels like a spuy or assassin in disguise. Nobody knows how the actual king of the Reshi islands looks like exactly

Maybe its Isom. He was after Adolin

Edit: maybe that is the reason he is not talking

Edited Monday at 04:32 PM by Bnaya

[alder24]

So much has happened in those new chapters. So many things were revealed. So much to talk about! I’m excited! 

Finally, a confirmation that Lightweavers receive their Shardblades at 3rd Ideal, just as all other orders. This means that all instances of Shallan summoning the Shardblade in WoR was her summoning Testament, not Pattern, including opening the Oathgate.

Huh, the way the Unseen court and Lightweaver work sounds a bit like a mafia. Quite fitting to be fair, I hope there would be no wars between different “families.”

There are two masked Ghostbloods on Roshar, Dlavil maybe? 

Cultivation is making a sound of stone when speaking? Syl said the Wind is of Honor, does this mean that spren of stones are of Cultivation? 

Honor’s visions is the power of Honor searching for a new Vessel? That’s surprising news. Was the dream he had at the end of WoR that power of Honor?

I was kind of expecting that Cultivation won't say a word about Taravangian Ascending, but it still was disappointing. She met with him to reassure he’s on the right path to fight with the new Odium - now I’m quite sure Cultivation was prepared for Taravangian turning hostile and Dalinar was her plan. What was the other time Cultivation saw Odium frighten? His imprisonment? It was long ago so it can’t be Rayse’s death. 

I’m so excited for Dalinar to finally reveal what happened in the past. Yes, please, I’m ready for a huge lore dump!

Wait, the Stormfather KNEW about other visions and he chose to HIDE THEM??? I KNEW IT!! The Stormfather CAN lie (we’ll see that) and hide things from others, he WAS Gavilar’s Stormfather. There never was any Stormfaker, it was always the Stormfather!!! I STORMING KNEW IT!!! And the Stormfather just ran away angry - it seems like Cultivation messed up with his plans or whatever he had! HA!

Wit is using Tamu Kak to communicate with his “old friend.” First ever mention of it?

Official drawings of Shallan’s plate and blades - they’re awesome! 

Damn, Adolin’s hate for his father is really much worse than it was in RoW. This is bad and even Adolin realized this. 

Frost was the old friend. He was a strong candidate but he didn’t intervene - his sister did. So it was Frost but it wasn’t.

I still don’t understand how capturing a capital gives Odium an entire kingdom. This doesn’t make sense, unless there is something specific in Alethi law that grants one the entire region after its seat of power was captured or something like that. Or is this the matter of equivalent exchange - Dalinar argued for entire kingdoms, so Odium can argue for the same? I’m kind of disappointed by this loophole. It sounds weak - this only works because of some unknown Alethi law that none of us knew. 

And so the secret is out, Wit figured it out, Cultivation didn’t say a word. However, if Rayse wasn’t going to exploit loopholes, what is his Shadesmare fleet doing on course towards Azimir? He had to be the one who sent that army to attack, unless he called it back after making the deal, but then he died and Taravangian ordered it to move again on Azimir. The fleet had to be sent by Rayse, because no ship can pass through half of Shadesmar in a day. 

Ghostbloods' base is on Narak. I wonder if they will try to help Odium's attack from the inside, as they did strike a deal with Raboniel in RoW. It seems to me that their best course of action is to stick to Odium as now they are hunted by Dalinar and Shallan and they can't hope on their access to Oathgates. On the other hand I'm sure Odium would never agree to give Mishram to worldhoppers - but he doesn't have to know that yet.

Edited Monday at 04:53 PM by alder24

[Ashbringer he/him]

I think the best chance the Coalition has is to focus on saving Thaylenah, try and use a small force with anti-Voidlight on the Shattered Plains, and then just destroy the Azimir Oathgate. That's a heavy blow, but not as heavy as losing the entire kingdom.

[FollowYourMuse she/her]

1 hour ago, BinarySecond said:

I want Shallan to be successful against Mraize really badly.

 

52 minutes ago, therunner said:

Same here, but sadly I suspect all she will find at Narak is that they have headstart on getting to BAM.
After all, it would not be much of a race if your protagonists are in the lead.

This is so a trap for Shallan set up by the Ghostbloods, They already outmaneuvered her in Lasting Integrity, and they just so happen to have a "rookie"  that Wit was able to notice, and that led them all the way to Narak?  

 

[Nesh he/him]

Well, it seems to me at least that not even Hoid knows Felt is a Ghostblood.  I feel like it would have been called out if he was among the sketches.  Not sure how the Ghostbloods will get to the Spiritual Realm.  Them being in Narak does worry me.  Odium is such a big threat to everyone that I can't imagine Kelsier wants him to win.  He should be aware of how dangerous that Shard is, as he has contacts on Sel and we know what he did to Devotion and Dominion.  I keep feeling like a Ghostblood civil war is coming...

[StanLemon]

18 minutes ago, alder24 said:

And so the secret is out, Wit figured it out, Cultivation didn’t say a word. However, if Rayse wasn’t going to exploit loopholes, what is his Shadesmare fleet doing on course towards Azimir? He had to be the one who sent that army to attack, unless he called it back after making the deal, but then he died and Taravangian ordered it to move again on Azimir. The fleet had to be sent by Rayse, because no ship can pass through half of Shadesmar in a day. 

I assume he already had a plan to strike the heart of Azimar, then would have paused it after the contract was made if he hadn't died. Then Mr T just took advantage of it to exploit the loophole. 

[coolsnow7]

Quote

“I found a few pieces of myself,” she said, “that I’d lost.”

Guys it’s over. Shallan is Chana (aka Radiant). If Chana ever was Shallan’s mom, then some sort of switcheroo took place. 
 

Quote

I’ve shown you what you need, he replied. Too much more is dangerous.

I think we know enough to credibly suggest: “too much more” = learning that the purpose of the Oathpact, the Knights Radiant, and the battle against the Voidbringers wasn’t for Honor to protect humanity from Odium - it was for humanity to protect Honor (and the Cosmere) from Odium. The current last ditch goal is for Dalinar to take up the Shard before Odium can destroy it; and for some reason, conquering Roshar is necessary to do so. Stormfather is worried that, especially with no Honor around and no Heralds to guide them, that if humanity knew the truth, they’d abandon the quest - like Sigzil eventually does. 

Edited Monday at 05:43 PM by coolsnow7

[Master Silver]

Why not just have all monarchs change their seat of power to Urithiru?

[Subvisual Haze]

19 minutes ago, coolsnow7 said:

I think we know enough to credibly suggest: “too much more” = learning that the purpose of the Oathpact, the Knights Radiant, and the battle against the Voidbringers wasn’t for Honor to protect humanity from Odium - it was for humanity to protect Honor (and the Cosmere) from Odium. The current last ditch goal is for Dalinar to take up the Shard before Odium can destroy it; and for some reason, conquering Roshar is necessary to do so. Stormfather is worried that, especially with no Honor around and no Heralds to guide them, that if humanity knew the truth, they’d abandon the quest - like Sigzil eventually does. 

I think Dalinar wants the eternal war to stop, which is in contradiction to what Honor wanted (fight a forever war to keep Odium occupied).  Honor + Odium = War.  The endless fighting was actually intentional.

[The Stick]

I was really disappointed by this loophole, if you can call it that. I mean, the Alethi legal code shouldn't even apply to the rest of Roshar, especially considering the Dalinar is king of Urithiru, not Alethkar. To me, this whole thing is really shaky and doesn't make much sense. However, I believe that Frost's Sister who I now really want to see in SP5 was wrong. Taravangian is playing a much bigger game. Plus, from a purely logical standpoint, this cannot be The loophole. The Azimir army was sent before any of this began, and I don't see how the Skybreakers force was mobilized in just a day. I think that was just Rayse being aggressive, not the loophole, since the Azimir army launched before the Contract. 

Also, Cultivation is such an idiot. All she does is a big lore dump, and doesn't decide to tell Dalinar that Taravangian of all people is the Vessel.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, Nesh said:

Well, it seems to me at least that not even Hoid knows Felt is a Ghostblood.  I feel like it would have been called out if he was among the sketches.  Not sure how the Ghostbloods will get to the Spiritual Realm.  Them being in Narak does worry me.  Odium is such a big threat to everyone that I can't imagine Kelsier wants him to win.  He should be aware of how dangerous that Shard is, as he has contacts on Sel and we know what he did to Devotion and Dominion.  I keep feeling like a Ghostblood civil war is coming...

Kelsier wants Odium bound to Roshar. As far as who runs things on Roshar we may assume that he has sympathies for the Parshendi side. The similarity between the Parshmen and the Skaa is very hard to overlook.

4 minutes ago, The Stick said:

Taravangian is playing a much bigger game. Plus, from a purely logical standpoint, this cannot be The loophole. The Azimir army was sent before any of this began, and I don't see how the Skybreakers force was mobilized in just a day. I think that was just Rayse being aggressive, not the loophole, since the Azimir army launched before the Contract.

The best way to hide a loophole is to let your enemy think that they've already found it.

5 minutes ago, The Stick said:

Also, Cultivation is such an idiot. All she does is a big lore dump, and doesn't decide to tell Dalinar that Taravangian of all people is the Vessel.

You are making the implicit assumption that Cultivation wants Dalinar to win. If that were the case why has she schemed a more capable man into holding Odium?

[Isilel]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

I’m kind of disappointed by this loophole. It sounds weak

 

Yes, particularly since loophole or no, not freezing the borders was dumb and guaranteed to result in unnecessary bloodshed. IMHO not explicitly including the spren of Honor and Cultivation in the deal was another mistake that will come back to bite them. I am disappointed in Dalinar and particularly in Hoid for missing this.

Hoid generally seems to be dropping  balls right and left - he didn't even suspect Felt?! He didn't know that Seons can be duplicitous? He didn't explain Scadrian and other cosmeric powers that the Ghostbloods might have to Shallan,  when he encouraged her to throw down the gauntlet?! Not only are Lightweavers unlikely to surprise their opponents, but they are probably in a very real danger.

Is Shallan on the verge of remembering Mraize from her childhood?

I am pretty sure that one of the unnamed Highprinces at the conference is Hatham and his clearly-a-worldhopper and probably a Ghostblood ardent from  WoK is with him.

What is Colot's deal? Did he fail to become a Windrunner squire? Did he replace Felt as a Ghostblood spy assigned to Dalinar?

Oh, and I thought that Sanderson previously said that the first arc of SA would be about the Radiants, while the second one would tell us about the Heralds. I am surprised that Dalinar will have to dive into the latter so soon...

Skybreakers are totally attacking Urithiru during the remaining days, right? Sibling saying how safe it was in the earlier chapters practically sealed the deal. I hope that they can be talked down with legal arguments, since the area seems to have been uninhabited before arrival of humans.

[The Stick]

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

You are making the implicit assumption that Cultivation wants Dalinar to win. If that were the case why has she schemed a more capable man into holding Odium?

I would definitely agree that Cultivation is playing a big game that far exceeds what we currently know. However, I think he chapters show she was very surprised on Taravangian's attitudes once he became Vessel. He was talking about murdering other Shards, so it is in her best interest for him to be defeated.

[coolsnow7]

1 hour ago, The Stick said:

I was really disappointed by this loophole, if you can call it that. I mean, the Alethi legal code shouldn't even apply to the rest of Roshar, especially considering the Dalinar is king of Urithiru, not Alethkar. To me, this whole thing is really shaky and doesn't make much sense. However, I believe that Frost's Sister who I now really want to see in SP5 was wrong. Taravangian is playing a much bigger game. Plus, from a purely logical standpoint, this cannot be The loophole. The Azimir army was sent before any of this began, and I don't see how the Skybreakers force was mobilized in just a day. I think that was just Rayse being aggressive, not the loophole, since the Azimir army launched before the Contract. 

Also, Cultivation is such an idiot. All she does is a big lore dump, and doesn't decide to tell Dalinar that Taravangian of all people is the Vessel.

I will be quite shocked if this is the only loophole. In fact my hunch right now is that this is a distraction (why would it be so important to Taravangian to conquer all of Roshar, as opposed to just most of it? How does that get him freed from the system?)

Taravangian said that he would arrange things so that he would be satisfied no matter the outcome. And we also know that what Odium rushed to erase from Hoid’s memory was him asking who Hoid would choose as champion. Let’s be patient - we’re not even 20% done with the book, and I’m certain Taravangian holding a Shard has far more tricks up his sleeve.