Question about Copperclouds

[Voidus]

I actually was thinking Noblemen. Since they are allowed to use allomancy freely, they'de be more likely to notice something.

I did think that too but TLR keeps much closer tabs on them, it wouldn't be impossible for the odd Noble to discover but I doubt they'd share it with others and if they did I think the Obligators would probably catch wind of it and inform TLR.

[Observer]

I did think that too but TLR keeps much closer tabs on them, it wouldn't be impossible for the odd Noble to discover but I doubt they'd share it with others and if they did I think the Obligators would probably catch wind of it and inform TLR.

Killing them noble, even discreetly, would make things even worse. All they'd have to do is tell one person, and then the two deaths or silencings would lead to a truckload of suspicion.

[Voidus]

I'm sure that TLR has other ways to deal with that sort of thing, denying their houses any contracts if they don't keep quiet? Kill them then get some Kandra to impersonate them? TLR generally doesn't punish the nobility but for something serious like this I'm sure he has his ways.

[Aminar]

At the beginning kf the series they were shocked there were more than 10 metals too but TLR knew of at least 2 more and his obligators knew one of those but the info never got out. Any skaa who discovered the weakness in copperclouds likely died quickly and considering the weakness was a hemalurgic.spike how would anybody figure it out?

Edited September 11, 2012 by Aminar

[Voidus]

But research into new allomantic metals would be incredibly time consuming, it's understandable that no Skaa ever discovered it, especially since you'd need a mistborn to test (Or a feruchemist)

considering the weakness was a hemalurgic.spike how would anybody figure it out?

I thought we were talking about destructive interference weakness? I must have missed something

[Observer]

We are talking about destructive interference differences, not hemalurgy. Just saying: In a whole thousand years, somebody would have lived long enough to talk.

[Windrunner he/him]

Well, in all fairness, the same could be said for atium Mistings. They've been around a while too, but the Lord Ruler succeeded in keeping them all hushed up quite nicely. There's no indication that anyone outside the Ministry ever figured that secret out and managed to share it. Elend, heir to the most powerful house, with plenty of forbidden texts in his hands had no idea that there were atium Mistings until Yomen told him so. I've no opinion one way or another on this question, but it's worth pointing out that the Lord Ruler was a master at obscuring facts and destroying rumors.

[Voidus]

I think Seers were also particularly easy to hush up, no one was exactly going to go around wasting atium to test it all TLR needed to do was prevent the obligators from talking. It would have been even more difficult for the Skaa to get enough atium to test people for Seer abilities.

[Windrunner he/him]

But nobles? The point has been made that they like to experiment with Allomancy. We've got at least one guy wasting atium trying to make new alloys out of it. You'd think someone would have figured it out. As was previously said, there's a thousand years of history. Some of the people who read Brandon's books were wondering about atium Mistings since around book one. It's a pretty basic question. So there'd probably be at least two or three people a generation with both enough wealth and the drive to test it. Someone should have got it, multiple people should have got it. But no one managed to share it.

[Voidus]

In the nobility there is also a lot more rivalry, are you likely to share it with anyone? They were always manoeuvring for position and information like this could be hugely useful if kept a secret.

[Observer]

On the topic of Seers, not only are they fairly rare (At the very most a tenth of the misting population), but Atium itself is very difficult to come by. You have to buy it off the Lord Ruler for ridiculous amounts of money, and I don't see many people going through all that to get a bead they'll just throw away testing.

Better idea: Copperclouds, somebody would notice because they don't have to actively try to find it out. It could simply be an accidental find.

With Atium, how many times do you accidently eat an Atium bead?

God says copper's perfect, but you might accidently learn otherwise. But God says only Mistborn get Atium, so why would any of th nobles waste time and money proving him right or wrong?

[Windrunner he/him]

The question of why isn't very relevant, in my humble opinion. We've seen equally unlikely things happen before. "God" also says that there are only ten Allomantic metals, but we find a man experimenting with the creation of an 11th, and a lesser noble at that. He doesn't have money to be wasting on this, yet he does it anyway. It's obvious, at least from my perspective, that the nobles aren't too terribly faithful or devoted, Sazed says as much in the HoA epigraphs.

It's not like it would even be that wasteful. Sure atium is damaged by stomach acid. It's not instantaneous though. All they really would need would be to swallow it, check to see if they can burn it, and then if it didn't work, throw it back up. Or even use a few tiny shavings like TLR did.

Regardless of this, I'm sorry for getting you guys off topic. My original point was this, The Lord Ruler managed to hide a lot about Allomancy from everyone. I find it conceivable that he's managed to squash rumors about copperclouds being able to be pierced. The skaa are ignorant, and I'm sure the nobility is absolutely full of spies. It wouldn't be hard for the Lord Ruler to keep tabs on people who discovered it. He wouldn't even have had to kill the nobles. I know that if I found an awesome magical secret and then a Steel Inquisitor came and told me to keep my mouth shut I would take that secret to my grave.

[name_here]

I doubt copper wave interference could be kept secret. You'd get it somewhere fairly frequently whenever two people are burning copper at the same time, which is hardly a rare occurrence. Smokers and many Mistborn never seem to turn it off, and go to huge parties full of Allomancers all the time.

Atium, however, is outrageously expensive, so Seers would only be discovered as a result of a concerted research effort, the people who found out would want to keep it a secret, and only 1/16 Mistings are Seers, and not all of them have necessarily Snapped.

[happyman he/him]

If people "know" things for long enough, it becomes a lot less likely that the exceptions will be discovered. I seriously doubt anybody but the ministry looked for Atium mistings---as others have said, that would be really, really expensive and most people probably never even thought of it. Those that did would have a really hard time making anybody else go along. If anybody did find out, doubtless TLR would come down hard. The secret probably would have gotten out eventually, but 1000 years is probably not too long for it to have been kept.

Copper, on the other hand, forms the basis for the Misting underground. Clubs trained apprentice Smokers as part of his job. It's been actively used for the entire Final Empire, both by the nobility and the skaa. If Copperclouds interacted in any way besides stacking (which would not be noticed by most Mistborn/Seekers anyway, as they couldn't pierce a normal Coppercloud) or having no effect at all, it certainly would have been noticed.

[Voidus]

I do agree that TLR could hush up a lot of things if he were so inclined (at least from the nobility) I just don't think he needed to bother with Atium mistigs, the discovery of the eleventh metal also happened in one of the further out dominances I think, further out from TLR's direct influence. But something like copperclouds being weaker or stronger would have been almost impossible to hush up, even for him. They are just too common an occurence.

[Aminar]

We are talking about destructive interference differences, not hemalurgy. Just saying: In a whole thousand years, somebody would have lived long enough to talk.

And then they,and everybody in a three block radius got given to a plantation owner who ran into an army of Koloss. Skaa are murdered all the time and nobody says a thing. If the information got out all tLR needs to do is kill every nnearby Skaa.

The other thing here. How would any regular bronze misting pierce a coppercloud? How would this discovery be made when Hemalurgy never reached the Skaa as anything despite the inquisitors running around. No seeker working with only Allomancy can pierce any coppercloud. It takes a spike.

[Voidus]

The other thing here. How would any regular bronze misting pierce a coppercloud? How would this discovery be made when Hemalurgy never reached the Skaa as anything despite the inquisitors running around. No seeker working with only Allomancy can pierce any coppercloud. It takes a spike.

We weren't referring to piercing copperclouds we were talking about the possibility of destructive interference weakening copperclouds to the point that a regular seeker could pierce them.

And then they,and everybody in a three block radius got given to a plantation owner who ran into an army of Koloss. Skaa are murdered all the time and nobody says a thing. If the information got out all tLR needs to do is kill every nnearby Skaa.

On this, I doubt that should a skaa Allomancer discover something that they would go rushing to the nearest obligator to tell them if TLR knew they were allomancers he'd kill them anyway so what more can he do? double kill them?

[Observer]

Copper, as has been stated, is the whole basis for illegal allomantic dealings. Smokers are so valuable and well-used that it's unrealistic to assume nobody saw anything. Clubs, and all other intelligent thieves with fronts, would always keep several smokers on them. With Club's 5+ smokers, Vin or Kelsier would have been bound ot notice something at some time. Other thieving crews apply to that as well.