Who is Taln?

[Dahak he/him]

We have WoB that the Heralds can only draw on Stormlight if they have their Honourblades.

 

Do you have a link to that one?

 

I thought we had WoB they couldn't surgebind without Honorblades but they had other abilities implicit in being Heralds.

Q:  Can the Heralds Surgebind without their Blades and if not are they under the same restrictions that others are.

A:  The Heralds without their Blades are incapable of the powers you're familiar with.  It doesn't mean there aren't other things they can do.

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7267-words-of-brandon-compiled-x-2/#entry119917

[Aleksiel]

It's more or less the same thing - Heralds can surgebind only when in possession of Honorblades and they can use stormlight only when they have their surgebidning powers, which for them is when they have their Honorblades. There might be other cases when a Herald could use stormlight - after reviving a Shardblade or becoming a squire for example, but Heralds can't draw stormlight just because they are Heralds.

[neuxue]

Personally I quite like the idea that he is the Herald Talenelat - or rather, he is what Taln has become. Given how we've been told (I'm about 99% sure there's a WoB on this somewhere) how large a role perception plays in things like Kaladin's scars, Shallan's shardblade, etc, I would not be at all surprised if this is also at the core of the issue with Taln.

 

If he no longer perceives himself as the Herald he was (despite naming himself such - Kaladin can factually acknowledge that he is no longer a slave, but the scars stay), then the caginess we see with actually referring to him as Taln makes sense, to some extent. He-who-was-Taln no longer envisions himself as the Taln we see referenced in the prelude, and can thus no longer fill the same role. I'm using Kaladin as a precedent here (again) - in WoK, he thinks that the old Kaladin Stormblessed is dead, but that his current self can learn from him. Given that Taln actually was killed in the Desolation we seen in the prelude, this would be an even stronger issue - the old Taln is dead, and he-who-was-Taln is a shadow of what he once was, much as Kaladin is a shadow of his former self earlier in WoK. (incidentally, this would mean there is some hope yet for the 'Taln' we see now to reclaim his identity, as it were).

 

I'm new to Realmatics but it seems possible to me that Taln remains more or less the same in the physical realm, but in the Cognitive - his self-perception and how he is perceived by others - something has been greatly altered, perhaps due to a shift in the Spiritual realm due to the change in the Oathpact (not broken, but perceived as broken by those who speak of it, which may be just as important). The Spiritual realm has to do with how the 'soul' is connected to those around it. This seems like something that would have been drastically altered by the other Heralds abandoning Taln and the Oathpact - the connections between his soul and the other Heralds (as well as anyone/anything else involved) would be redefined, thus having an impact on how Taln envisions himself (and how the others see him), and therefore his overall 'self'. So he would be, in effect, a different person.

 

I also sort of wonder how much of his sense of identity is tied up in his Blade. The Blades grant the Heralds at least a portion of their power, so would it serve as a 'reminder' of some sort to Taln, of who he was and is meant to be? In a similar way that Kaladin feels so very different when he picks up a spear again? Apologies for the endless Taln-Kaladin parallelling

[Blaze1616 he/him]

I also sort of wonder how much of his sense of identity is tied up in his Blade. The Blades grant the Heralds at least a portion of their power, so would it serve as a 'reminder' of some sort to Taln, of who he was and is meant to be? In a similar way that Kaladin feels so very different when he picks up a spear again?

Emphasis mine.

 

That is a very interesting idea that had never crossed my mind. I wonder if the herald identity is tied to their blade, and as time went by having been separated, they all reverted to what they used to be like prior to being Heralds. That could explain Shallash destroying her art, and Jezrien being a drunken fool. It could also mean that Naln may or may not have gotten his blade back. Perhaps he's gone off the deep end and doesn't have his blade, and that's why he hunts new radiants who have broken the law. Or perhaps he's completely sane after recovering his blade, and this is just how the Skybreakers worked.

 

I'm not completely sold on the concept, but I had never thought of that. It would be interesting if it were true.

[natc]

You mean the blades (Honor fragments presumably) may have caused some subconscious nudging in their behavior so far like Nahel spren, and their absence has caused them to regress with perhaps some withdrawal going on?

I mean, if you've got this thing on you that spent thousands of years making you act honorably or something like that as you die repeatedly, once that's gone it'd be the last thing you want to do.

[Darkness he/him]

It's more or less the same thing - Heralds can surgebind only when in possession of Honorblades and they can use stormlight only when they have their surgebidning powers, which for them is when they have their Honorblades. There might be other cases when a Herald could use stormlight - after reviving a Shardblade or becoming a squire for example, but Heralds can't draw stormlight just because they are Heralds.

Why not? I know this is apples and oranges, but Squires can take in Stormlight without having a direct bond/possession of a Blade. As far as we know, they can't Surgebind with it, but they can still use it to heal and such.

Feverstone Keep vision seems to support squires not being able to Surgebind: The Radiant was the only one that Dalinar noticed moving more easily through the Purelake, none of the squires seemed to have that advantage.

natc Posted Today, 08:42 AM

"You mean the blades (Honor fragments presumably) may have caused some subconscious nudging in their behavior so far like Nahel spren, and their absence has caused them to regress with perhaps some withdrawal going on?

I mean, if you've got this thing on you that spent thousands of years making you act honorably or something like that as you die repeatedly, once that's gone it'd be the last thing you want to do. "

I agree with this idea. I took it one step further the other day and said the Blades bound the Heralds, not the other way around. Point is... Honorblades are largish fragments of Honor, so there's no reason they would bestow some sort of common nudging toward that intent. However, the opposite argument could be made.

Maybe the Honorblades sought out individuals that portrayed that trait (like the spren do, like Divine Breaths do, like the mists seemed to [Vin seems fairly Preservation-y overall to me, but not when she wore "Ruin's earring"], and like the Shaod seemed to seek out Devoted individuals), so the Radiants could have been the most honourable individuals available...

Edit: I see that you mentioned the caveat of Heralds becoming Squires. What I'm saying is that, since one group (Squires) is able to do it, I don't think it's too far fetched that the other (Heralds) could too. Overlapping abilities without overlapping identities/roles.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Darkness

[Aleksiel]

....

 

Taln was incredibly fast without inhaling stormlight - he caught that dart in a heartbeat and there was no glowing involved (even little would have been obvious in a dark room) or spheres going dun. Brandon said the Heralds can't surgebind without their Honorblades, but still have some additional powers. Why would they be able to passively benefit from stormlight and just not surgebind, what's the logic behind it? The squires at least have some form of a bond, just not a Nahel bond. Take the Honorblade away and the Heralds have no bonds that we know of unless you count the Oathpact. However, if Heralds can casually inhale and physically benefit from stormlight, that goes a long way against the theory of Nale having his Blade, which I'm not a fan of, so I won't mind if what you suggest is the case.

[Darkness he/him]

Taln was incredibly fast without inhaling stormlight - he caught that dart in a heartbeat and there was no glowing involved (even little would have been obvious in a dark room) or spheres going dun. Brandon said the Heralds can't surgebind without their Honorblades, but still have some additional powers. Why would they be able to passively benefit from stormlight and just not surgebind, what's the logic behind it? The squires at least have some form of a bond, just not a Nahel bond. Take the Honorblade away and the Heralds have no bonds that we know of unless you count the Oathpact. However, if Heralds can casually inhale and physically benefit from stormlight, that goes a long way against the theory of Nale having his Blade, which I'm not a fan of, so I won't mind if what you suggest is the case.

Good point! I do wonder though... Kaladin seems to be able to intake Stormlight without being in direct contact with Syl (as long as he holds to his ideals). Would Radiants be able to have some abilities (enhanced reflexes, ability to take in Stormlight - no I'm not letting it go yet lol) without being in direct contact with their Honorblade? 

I mean, there is some funky stuff going on with how Honorblades are bound vs. wielded - which I've addressed in a bunch of other threads recently, so I don't want to be a broken record here - so I think it's feasible that there could be multiple levels of powers associated with the Honorblades.

For example, simply having a bond to an Honorblade could give you super-reflexes and let you intake Stormlight (from Lopen not being near Kaladin at the end of WoR, I assume you don't have to be near the source of your bond to have the inherent ability to intake Stormlight), while holding one/being in close proximity gives you Surgebinding.

This theory might break down when you consider Szeth Surgebinding without the Blade being corporeal.

 

^ I just want you to see how I talked myself into a corner and why I'm changing my mind

 

I think the WoB about Heralds not Surgebinding without their Blades just means that because they don't have the right innate sDNA, they can't Surgebind without a bond to an Honorblade. I think it's the established Spiritual bond that matters, not the physical presence of the Blade. I'd guess that the Heralds are still capable of Surgebinding with or without the physical presence of their Blades, because I'd guess they still have the primary bond to their respective Blades. I interpret the WoB as having more to do with severing/negating their spiritual connection to the Honorblades, which would be really hard to do since the Blades don't have a specific set of ideals or standards. Anyone can use them, nobody can betray them. My head canon currently is that bonding to an Honorblade literally re-writes your sDNA in a specific way to allow you to use Surges, while having the primary bond (which only the Heralds have) gives you some added perks.

 

So yeah, Heralds might have a couple innate abilities, but we really haven't seen what a Herald can do when he/she is completely bereft of an Honorblade. In my mind, being physically separated from an Honorblade shouldn't negate your magical abilities: Szeth still Surgebinds after dismissing the Honorblade, so why couldn't Taln still have super-reflexes from his Blade? Maybe that's why none of the Heralds age - a system akin to heightening on Nalthis?

 

So I'd say they definitely gain some passive abilities. I don't know if it's from just being a Herald, or if it's from a primary bond to an Honorblade, though I think the latter. Brandon's characters rarely if ever show supernatural abilities without some kind of investiture involved.

 

The ability to passively intake Stormlight or not isn't what I'm arguing. Obviously they need to do it to Surgebind, so on some level the Heralds are capable of it. I'm taking the somewhat ludicrous and radical stance that at least Taln and Nalan, if not all of the Heralds, are still bound to their Blades, and are able to Surgebind, take in Stormlight, have heightened reflexes, not age, etc. The majority of them just chose to forsake that life, so whether they can or not spiritually, them not showing their abilities is more a function of cognitive paradigm or personal choice.

[Aleksiel]

Good point! I do wonder though... Kaladin seems to be able to intake Stormlight without being in direct contact with Syl (as long as he holds to his ideals). Would Radiants be able to have some abilities (enhanced reflexes, ability to take in Stormlight - no I'm not letting it go yet lol) without being in direct contact with their Honorblade? 

I mean, there is some funky stuff going on with how Honorblades are bound vs. wielded - which I've addressed in a bunch of other threads recently, so I don't want to be a broken record here - so I think it's feasible that there could be multiple levels of powers associated with the Honorblades.

For example, simply having a bond to an Honorblade could give you super-reflexes and let you intake Stormlight (from Lopen not being near Kaladin at the end of WoR, I assume you don't have to be near the source of your bond to have the inherent ability to intake Stormlight), while holding one/being in close proximity gives you Surgebinding.

This theory might break down when you consider Szeth Surgebinding without the Blade being corporeal.

 

^ I just want you to see how I talked myself into a corner and why I'm changing my mind

 

I think the WoB about Heralds not Surgebinding without their Blades just means that because they don't have the right innate sDNA, they can't Surgebind without a bond to an Honorblade. I think it's the established Spiritual bond that matters, not the physical presence of the Blade. I'd guess that the Heralds are still capable of Surgebinding with or without the physical presence of their Blades, because I'd guess they still have the primary bond to their respective Blades. I interpret the WoB as having more to do with severing/negating their spiritual connection to the Honorblades, which would be really hard to do since the Blades don't have a specific set of ideals or standards. Anyone can use them, nobody can betray them. My head canon currently is that bonding to an Honorblade literally re-writes your sDNA in a specific way to allow you to use Surges, while having the primary bond (which only the Heralds have) gives you some added perks.

 

So yeah, Heralds might have a couple innate abilities, but we really haven't seen what a Herald can do when he/she is completely bereft of an Honorblade. In my mind, being physically separated from an Honorblade shouldn't negate your magical abilities: Szeth still Surgebinds after dismissing the Honorblade, so why couldn't Taln still have super-reflexes from his Blade? Maybe that's why none of the Heralds age - a system akin to heightening on Nalthis?

 

So I'd say they definitely gain some passive abilities. I don't know if it's from just being a Herald, or if it's from a primary bond to an Honorblade, though I think the latter. Brandon's characters rarely if ever show supernatural abilities without some kind of investiture involved.

 

The ability to passively intake Stormlight or not isn't what I'm arguing. Obviously they need to do it to Surgebind, so on some level the Heralds are capable of it. I'm taking the somewhat ludicrous and radical stance that at least Taln and Nalan, if not all of the Heralds, are still bound to their Blades, and are able to Surgebind, take in Stormlight, have heightened reflexes, not age, etc. The majority of them just chose to forsake that life, so whether they can or not spiritually, them not showing their abilities is more a function of cognitive paradigm or personal choice.

 

I didn't mean 'take the Honorblade away' only in physical sense, but like break the bond between them. I guess the Heralds could still be bond to their Blades, but why would Brandon say one of them went back for his/her if s/he could have just re-summoned it? Szeth bonded Jezrien's Blade, I find it unlikely for him to have been able to do it if the Blade was still bonded with the Herald. Or could Honorblades be bonded by more than one person  I really doubt it, but I don't think anyone's ever asked Brandon something like that. 

 

Anyway, back to something more plausible. Kalak did just leave his:

 

 

Kalak watched Jezrien depart across the burned landscape. Finally, he summoned his own Blade and slammed it into the stone beside the other eight. He turned and walked in the direction opposite from Jezrien.

 

He didn't do anything special like Dalinar did when he broke his bond with Oathbringer. Of course, Shardblades aren't Honorblades, but Nale thought Szeth's death was important for him to break the spiritual connection with Jezrien's blade.

 

 

You did, and you died. Your bond to your Blade severed, all ties—both spiritual and physical — undone.

 

Funny, I haven't given this sentence much thought both times I read WoR. But it's logical to have both spiritual and physical bond, may be even a cognitive one? So looking back at WoK prelude, it would seem Kalak didn't break his bonds with his Blade, he just physically left it, which shouldn't be enough. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by Aleksiel

[VladJunior]

I haven't seen this theory (may have missed it) but isn't anyone concerned that Hoid was present when Taln dropped his honorblade at Kholinar (blade never vanished evidencing that it was an honorblade). Hoid takes Taln's blade and switches it with another shardblade. This causes Taln to lose his powers. Hoid worries that leaving Taln with his power would be a bad idea, given his 4500 years of torture and broken mind. Hoid may be able to do things like steal an honorblade and de-bond Taln due to his invested nature.

[Moogle]

I haven't seen this theory (may have missed it) but isn't anyone concerned that Hoid was present when Taln dropped his honorblade at Kholinar (blade never vanished evidencing that it was an honorblade). Hoid takes Taln's blade and switches it with another shardblade. This causes Taln to lose his powers. Hoid worries that leaving Taln with his power would be a bad idea, given his 4500 years of torture and broken mind. Hoid may be able to do things like steal an honorblade and de-bond Taln due to his invested nature.

This is a very common theory! We know that Hoid both has no Honorblades and didn't swap the Blade Taln had by WoB though.

[dvoraen]

I'm thinking it's more likely that, if "Taln" is the real one, someone took advantage of him in getting the Honorblade away.  I have another possibility, but it's really kind of scary to consider.  (The possibility that he had to give away his blade to the enemy to stop those millenia of torment.)

[Darkness he/him]

I didn't mean 'take the Honorblade away' only in physical sense, but like break the bond between them. I guess the Heralds could still be bond to their Blades, but why would Brandon say one of them went back for his/her if s/he could have just re-summoned it? Szeth bonded Jezrien's Blade, I find it unlikely for him to have been able to do it if the Blade was still bonded with the Herald. Or could Honorblades be bonded by more than one person  I really doubt it, but I don't think anyone's ever asked Brandon something like that. 

I'm reserving this space for a later date because I am sure I've seen WoBs about this recently.

I found the quotes that led me to think this way, but they are rather ambiguous... as always lol

 

DUSTIN

Can a Herald's blade/equipment be um....adopted? I only ask because Dalinar seems to be lacking one and that Herald at the end did kick the bucket in his capital and he's gonna need more than armor when Szeth shows up.

BRANDON SANDERSON (GOODREADS)

Someone who is not himself or herself a Herald can indeed use one of the Honorblades.

QUESTION

Can someone bond more than one Honorblade?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Honorblade? You can't bond an Honorblade, though it can be given to you. Shardblades, however, come from a spren bond and it is possible to bond more than one.

FOOTNOTE

Later clarified, Brandon misunderstood the question. One may be bound to multiple Honorblades.

So overall, a non-Herald can use an Honorblade, but can't bond one. I'm not sure if the quote means 'nobody' can bind an Honorblade, but I would contend that the Honorblades currently can't be bound - simply because they are already bound to the associated Herald. This is supported by the footnote of the second quote, which could be a case of a Herald's spiritual connection to the blade being severed, and then someone who already has an Honorblade bond taking up that second bond.

However, if the footnote was not written verbatim, this could just be a case of "One may use multiple Honorblades", and the transcriber just put in 'bound' because that's how they thought of it.

 

A third case could be where the Honorblades can't be bound period, but rather can only be 'given' directly by Honor. This 'giving' could be an absolute one-to-one ratio, with no potential of anyone else bonding an Honorblade since Honor is now dead. Others can still use however many Honorblades they collect, but they can't claim full ownership of the Honorblade. I personally don't think this option is likely, but I like to be thorough.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Darkness

[VladJunior]

Assuming Taln's blade is stolen between when he shows up at Kholinar and when he appears locked in the camps (before Amarem goes to see him), he wouldv'e lost his powers, as has been suggested on this thread. I don't recall any evidence that Taln is a feruchemist. What other inherent traits of investiture would grant the speed and precision needed to catch multiple darts in mid-air?

[natc]

Assuming Taln's blade is stolen between when he shows up at Kholinar and when he appears locked in the camps (before Amarem goes to see him), he wouldv'e lost his powers, as has been suggested on this thread. I don't recall any evidence that Taln is a feruchemist. What other inherent traits of investiture would grant the speed and precision needed to catch multiple darts in mid-air?

. . . being a Herald perhaps?

We still don't know much about that.

Or maybe he's just supposed to be that awesome after all this warfare.

[Moogle]

Assuming Taln's blade is stolen between when he shows up at Kholinar and when he appears locked in the camps (before Amarem goes to see him), he wouldv'e lost his powers, as has been suggested on this thread. I don't recall any evidence that Taln is a feruchemist. What other inherent traits of investiture would grant the speed and precision needed to catch multiple darts in mid-air?

Being a Returned, for one. Which the Heralds are already like.

[Wolf Brother]

It is indeed basically confirmed unless you can explain why Nalan was Surgebinding if he doesn't have one. WoB:

Lift sees him take in Stormlight, a power we're familiar with, so he must therefore have an Honorblade.

[Wolf Brother]

I have a crazy theory about how Nalan got his power. We know that Larkins take stormlight from people, maybe they can also give the stormlight they took to someone else.

Another theory i have, which i am sure lots of people have suggested already is that Taln is Jezrian. In one chapter he is telling Dalinar which Herald's specialize in certain skills and he tells him to bring him his leaders. If he was Taln he would of said to bring their warriors to him not their leaders.

Sorry i couldnt find quotes/chapters im on my phone at moment.

[Aleksiel]

I'm reserving this space for a later date because I am sure I've seen WoBs about this recently.

I found the quotes that led me to think this way, but they are rather ambiguous... as always lol

 

DUSTIN

Can a Herald's blade/equipment be um....adopted? I only ask because Dalinar seems to be lacking one and that Herald at the end did kick the bucket in his capital and he's gonna need more than armor when Szeth shows up.

BRANDON SANDERSON (GOODREADS)

Someone who is not himself or herself a Herald can indeed use one of the Honorblades.

QUESTION

Can someone bond more than one Honorblade?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Honorblade? You can't bond an Honorblade, though it can be given to you. Shardblades, however, come from a spren bond and it is possible to bond more than one.

FOOTNOTE

Later clarified, Brandon misunderstood the question. One may be bound to multiple Honorblades.

So overall, a non-Herald can use an Honorblade, but can't bond one. I'm not sure if the quote means 'nobody' can bind an Honorblade, but I would contend that the Honorblades currently can't be bound - simply because they are already bound to the associated Herald. This is supported by the footnote of the second quote, which could be a case of a Herald's spiritual connection to the blade being severed, and then someone who already has an Honorblade bond taking up that second bond.

However, if the footnote was not written verbatim, this could just be a case of "One may use multiple Honorblades", and the transcriber just put in 'bound' because that's how they thought of it.

 

A third case could be where the Honorblades can't be bound period, but rather can only be 'given' directly by Honor. This 'giving' could be an absolute one-to-one ratio, with no potential of anyone else bonding an Honorblade since Honor is now dead. Others can still use however many Honorblades they collect, but they can't claim full ownership of the Honorblade. I personally don't think this option is likely, but I like to be thorough.

 

Nalan said Szeth's bonds with the Honorblade - both physical and spiritual! - were broken when he 'died', so Honorbaldes can be bonded. There's just some serious misunderstanding when it comes to pre-WoR WoB on this. But there's nothing on Honorblades being bonded to only one person.

 

Judging on WoK prelude and how Szeth had to 'die' to severe the bonds between him and his Honorblade, I'd say Kalak is still bonded to his.

 

edit: I may even make a theory on it later today unless I feel too lazy  

Edited February 14, 2015 by Aleksiel

[Dahak he/him]

It's more or less the same thing - Heralds can surgebind only when in possession of Honorblades and they can use stormlight only when they have their surgebidning powers, which for them is when they have their Honorblades.

 

The second half of that is not implied by Brandon's statement. He says only they can't use the surges with out the blades and that they have other powers.

 

We know there are powers and abilities that are fuelled by stormlight without being surges. Stormlight regeneration being one.

 

It is entirely possible they have to be able to use stormlight or other investiture to continue to live like Returned do.

[LegendMKII]

Hi all just going back to the original question, I was re-reading the Taln Chapter in WoR and saw this quote 'The Gift and Words. Not his. Never his. Now his.' This can defiantly be used as evidence to support the idea that this isn't the real Taln, but someone who has somehow come into possession of his words and message. Now I have no idea who that could be, and I don't think we're supposed to yet.

 

[Aleksiel]

The second half of that is not implied by Brandon's statement. He says only they can't use the surges with out the blades and that they have other powers.

 

We know there are powers and abilities that are fuelled by stormlight without being surges. Stormlight regeneration being one.

 

It is entirely possible they have to be able to use stormlight or other investiture to continue to live like Returned do.

 

I don't see how it's not implied when it's the Honorblades that give surgebindings powers. Using stormlight to survive isn't not the same as surgebidning, I doubt Vasher can use any of the surges.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Aleksiel

[Moogle]

The second half of that is not implied by Brandon's statement. He says only they can't use the surges with out the blades and that they have other powers.

We know there are powers and abilities that are fuelled by stormlight without being surges. Stormlight regeneration being one.

It is entirely possible they have to be able to use stormlight or other investiture to continue to live like Returned do.

Brandon does not say they cannot Surgebind without their Blades. He says they are "incapable of the powers you are familiar with". To me, this includes taking in Stormlight, as I consider that a power in its own right (squires get it).

[Kelek's Breath he/him]

Have been reading this conversation along with other threads on this topic and just have some questions that I think might be able to add to the dialogue or at least bring out some strong opinions (please keep in mind I am not the most Cosmere savvy individual and apologies for the long post beforehand):

 

1. In the TWoK epilogue, before the gates shake, Hoid launches into a diatribe about what people value most in others. He brings multiple examples (paraphrasing here) of two people discovering the same thing only moments apart, but the one that announces it first is the more revered of the two, and the 2nd just a copycat. So timeliness is what people value.

And then Taln shows up announcing the Desolation, but Hoid suggests he may be too late.

Which means that either

 

a) the real Taln has already announced it some time ago (suggested by Kari-no-sugata in this thread http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7024-talns-identity/page-9?hl=talenel)and this is a copycat,

or,

 

b)this person is not really Taln, and is announcing the Desolation before it happens, leading to all out war within Roshar before the real Taln arrives, who will not be listened to when he announces the real threat. Like the boy who cried wolf. (This would mean that the Listeners are not the real threat-they are influenced by Odium to be sure, but there is another force more powerful coming) (this was suggested by Zandi in this thread - http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7230-whos-a-herald-or-why-brandon-is-careful-about-taln/page-2?hl=talenel)

or,

 

c)this is Taln but there has already been an event that has already heralded the Desolation before he got to Roshar, thus he has been beaten by another person who was more timely, and thus Taln is too late. (The question is, who or what has already heralded the Desolation? Is it the unknown event that happened 7 years before current events that started the spren-bonding again?)

 

2.There are multiple mentions of Taln's scar in the Rosharan night sky as a visible constellation, which might mean that Taln the Herald had a prominent scar on himself. Yet it's not mentioned at all in any of the viewpoints, not even Hoid's, that he bears a scar worth noting. (On a note, it could be a reference to Taln being so strong or powerful, he put a scar on the sky itself.)

 

3. There is something curious going on with Herald's clothing. Jezrien is still wearing the same robes hundreds or thousands of years into the Oathpact. They are just burnt and bloodied, but still in good shape, not what you would expect from thousands of years of use.

Compare to Taln's clothing at the Epilogue: "his clothing nothing more than a ragged sack-like length of cloth wrapping his waist." Can the Heralds not change clothing? Does the clothing they show up in denote them as Heralds, because it is completely different than the clothing of the people of Roshar in previous desolations (ragged tanned skins or leathers)? Would this mean that their clothing may not suffer damage in between Desolations in the place they go (do they have clothes they can summon from the cognitive) Why then is Taln in a sack-like cloth? Where is his warrior-like clothing/armour?

 

4.Hoid calls Taln "confused, unfortunate friend". If the Heralds are suffering from the reverse attributes that they had, and Ishar is the Herald of Luck, could Hoid be referencing him here as the unfortunate friend?

Of course, Taln could also be unfortunate in that he might be too late to save Roshar. But Hoid always uses words and phrases with multiple meaning so it cannot be discounted.

 

5.Nalan is still chasing surgebinders (if we take the WoR events in sequence) after the Listeners bond the stormspren, and after Taln shows up. There is WoB i believe that says the Heralds would know when a desolation would return based on the Voidbringers returning, and thus would know that Taln had returned. Yet all Nalan, at the end of WoR wants to do is visit the Shin so that they can bring justice to them. Nothing about the Desolations returning or the world coming to an end. He also does not agree with Szeth when he speaks of the Voidbringers having returned.

None of the other Heralds show up to find Taln.

 

Thank you for reading this. Thoughts and ideas welcome.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Kelek's Breath

[BaarZel]

We know that when Returned...return. They lose all their memories and are infused with huge amount of investiture. Any chance that Heralds return by...Returning? Dead guy wakes up bound to an honorblade and instead of a "blank" memory, he gets the Heralds consciousness throw the blade. This reboot would probably not be instantaneous/smooth and could explain Taln's madness. (him losing his blade might also exacerbate the issue).

We also know that Returned can experience "flashbacks" a la Lightsong the bold. This also ties into the theme of appearances. Brandon stresses that Kal's scar's remain bc of his own perception of himself just like Vasher explains about Returned in WB. Taln, may not yet be Taln, bc he doesn't perceive himself as such...yet.