dj26792 he/him Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 That quote from the 1st page said that drawing on the power of creation caused ripples... the reason feruchemy is not normally detected is because it doesn't use a lot of the power of creation, it only really draws on the person using it, but requires a small amount of the power of creation to work in some way so you need a very powerful seeker to sense it because there is very little power being drawn on and thus very small ripples. Also I don't think that all magic is wave like, I think that all magic causes waves that can be detected if you have the right ability. (Bronze burning, potentially other magics we don't know about yet) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 That quote from the 1st page said that drawing on the power of creation caused ripples... the reason feruchemy is not normally detected is because it doesn't use a lot of the power of creation, it only really draws on the person using it, but requires a small amount of the power of creation to work in some way so you need a very powerful seeker to sense it because there is very little power being drawn on and thus very small ripples. Also I don't think that all magic is wave like, I think that all magic causes waves that can be detected if you have the right ability. (Bronze burning, potentially other magics we don't know about yet) I see no reason that Bronze wouldn't be sufficient for detecting all magic systems. Sure, each planet may have its own way of doing it, but there's no reason for each method not to work on all planets based on our baseless speculation so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivertongue he/him Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Point. As in you have a point. Not that the shard in question is pointy, though that is also a possibility. Our spikes are pointy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Ah! not the spikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cones For Eyes he/him Posted September 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 That quote from the 1st page said that drawing on the power of creation caused ripples... the reason feruchemy is not normally detected is because it doesn't use a lot of the power of creation, it only really draws on the person using it, but requires a small amount of the power of creation to work in some way so you need a very powerful seeker to sense it because there is very little power being drawn on and thus very small ripples. I like this reasoning a lot. Makes a lot of sense to me! I see no reason that Bronze wouldn't be sufficient for detecting all magic systems. Sure, each planet may have its own way of doing it, but there's no reason for each method not to work on all planets based on our baseless speculation so far. I agree with this as well. I don't see that the two statements are independant. You might require a stronger seeker on some worlds than others though based on how strong the ripples in creation were for a particular magic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 I agree with this as well. I don't see that the two statements are independant. You might require a stronger seeker on some worlds than others though based on how strong the ripples in creation were for a particular magic system. Agreed, Allomancy and AonDor should be easiest to detect I think since they both seem to directly utilise the power of creation. Awakening I'm not sure on since I'm undecided where the power mostly comes from for it. Surgebinding I think would be at around Feruchemy level since it doesn't seem to draw on PoC either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 So- AonDor: Easy to detect Allomancy: Easy to detect Feruchemy: Hard to detect Hemalurgy: Hard to detect Surgebinding: Hard to detect Soulcasting: Moderately difficult? Awakening: Hard to detect I'm unsure with soulcasting, since it does involve entering another realm, which I assume would freak bronze out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Pulses are cause by the PoC being filtered/focused through a shape whether Aon Metal Molecules or Cut Gems. Anyone with knowledge of Cymatics would better understad what I tried to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Much the same way a short pattern of offs and ons creates the instructions for what you want a computer to do, I think the pulses determine or filter what effect the magic has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Hemalurgy: Hard to detect Not sure on this one, hemalurgically produced allomancy should be just as easy to detect as regular allomancy, feruchemy as hard as regular feruchemy. Unless you mean just the spikes themselves? In which case yes, agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Not sure on this one, hemalurgically produced allomancy should be just as easy to detect as regular allomancy, feruchemy as hard as regular feruchemy. Unless you mean just the spikes themselves? In which case yes, agreed Yes, I meant the spikes. They'd be detectable, but not much. Also note, the well gave off massive bronzebeats, yet could only be heard hemalurgically. This means the amount of power behind the ability has no effect on how easy to detect it is. Urgh, I had this wonderful theory and now it's fallen out of my head >_> Give me a moment to remember it. Edited September 1, 2012 by Observer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 This means the amount of power behind the ability has no effect on how easy to detect it is. It does seem to affect the range at which you can detect it though, which is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 It does seem to affect the range at which you can detect it though, which is interesting. Hmm, that's very interesting. You'd think that detectablility and distance of detaction would be linked, and yet they don't appear to be. What is Brandon playing at? (Or was this overlooked? I doubt it, but it's possible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 It might not be though. It's possible that Vin's double bronze Allomancy allowed her to start hearing it earlier then everyone else, but by the time it had finished refilling any Seeker could have heard it. I think the Well would have been quiet when it first started to refill, but gradually gained volume. I wish we knew what attribute Alendi had been spiked with. Then we could tell if he had enhanced bronze as well, or if he heard it as a normal Seeker. It also would help if another of the crew had been a Seeker, but Marsh was in full on Ruin mode and probably busy slaughtering the Synod. I can't remember right now if there were any other Seekers in Luthadel. They wouldn't have been able to get at the Well anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 It might not be though. It's possible that Vin's double bronze Allomancy allowed her to start hearing it earlier then everyone else, but by the time it had finished refilling any Seeker could have heard it. I think the Well would have been quiet when it first started to refill, but gradually gained volume. I wish we knew what attribute Alendi had been spiked with. Then we could tell if he had enhanced bronze as well, or if he heard it as a normal Seeker. It also would help if another of the crew had been a Seeker, but Marsh was in full on Ruin mode and probably busy slaughtering the Synod. I can't remember right now if there were any other Seekers in Luthadel. They wouldn't have been able to get at the Well anyway. Mistings back in Alendi's day were like TLR in power. Aldeni was a seeker, but had his amazing uberpowers, and could hear the well. Of course, now that I'm typing this it seems rediculous that any seeker could have heard what felt unique to him, so he probably was spiked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Do you have a quote on that? Because if not, I seriously doubt that they were anywhere near the Lord Ruler's power. Alendi was snapped by the mists. If he was that powerful, I think his epic conquest of the entire world would have snapped him. The Mists typically only snap those that are too weak to be snapped in any other method. Also, there were so few Allomancers before the Ascension that people thought that they only came into being with the Ascension. The newfound Mistborn would have been exciting, but people would have remembered the Mistings that had the same powers. Weak Mistings, men who could hardly move metal or barely exert their will on another's emotions wouldn't have been remembered. When Preservation set up the mists, he was afraid of Ruin escaping his prison. In those early days, before the Ascension, the mists began to Snap people as they did during our time—but this action of the mists was one of the only ways to awaken Allomancy in a person, for the genetic attributes were buried too deeply to be brought out by a simple beating. The mists of that day created Mistings only, of course—there were no Mistborn until the Lord Ruler made use of the nuggets. The attributes were too deep. If he'd been powerful, a simple beating should have brought his powers out, along with everyone elses. They were too weak. There are mentions of stronger Mistings in the past, but it makes more sense for those Mistings to have been the first ones that emerged during the time of the Final Empire, when the Original Nine Allomancers's bloodlines had diminished enough for an Allomancer to be born who was not a Mistborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 The attributes were too deep. If he'd been powerful, a simple beating should have brought his powers out, along with everyone elses. They were too weak. There are mentions of stronger Mistings in the past, but it makes more sense for those Mistings to have been the first ones that emerged during the time of the Final Empire, when the Original Nine Allomancers's bloodlines had diminished enough for an Allomancer to be born who was not a Mistborn. I always assumed that the more powerful the more it took to snap them. No mere mistsickness would snap the Seers, they needed a more powerful does of mistiness to snap. On a side note, I suppose you're right. Likewise, didn't people wear hemalurgic earings to stay in contact with their gods? If so, that could have easily been Alendi's spike. Simply a little more charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 The mistsickness that snapped the Seers was the same as the one that snapped everyone else. They just needed to a little more juice then everyone else, maybe because of the fact that atium doesn't draw power from Preservation. But anyway, about the whole "more powerful the more it took to snap them" thing. Brandon has hinted that is also true. I'm not sure why. This is how I've always visualized this strange relationship. (Sorry that it's a download, the image hosting thing was being finicky) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 I suppose that works. I also find it interesting that people may have worshipped Ruin back in Alendi's day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 Mistings back in Alendi's day were like TLR in power. Aldeni was a seeker, but had his amazing uberpowers, and could hear the well. Of course, now that I'm typing this it seems rediculous that any seeker could have heard what felt unique to him, so he probably was spiked... Er, I don't think that's quite right. In Alendi's day, all Mistings were at much lower power---they did not have the direct infusion of Lerasium that TLR added after he used the Well's power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Well, from the way I interpret the quote, the power of creation causes the ripples when utilized. My gut says it probably does something on all three realms. I was going to jump in with the quote where brandon tells us to look at the similarities between the Aons that shaped the magic (power of creation) that came through, and that the molecules' shape (of 16 oparticular metals) did the same type of thing. After all, Adonalsium was or was using the power of Creation itself, these shards are all aspects of that. It follows then that all the shards access differing parts of creation. That quote above is better though. I can definitely see the power manifesting in different ways based on frequency and wavelength. Just as all electromagnetic radiation is essentially the same, but its frequency and (primarily) wavelength change how it acts, from gamma rays, to visble light, to heat itself. I'm teatering on the edge of esposation (espousal?) myself!! Good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) In the logbook there's bit that says "Rashek thinks I wear the piercings of the hero unjustly". Apparently Ruin screwed up the legends enough that they spiked Alendia quite nicely, which explains his power with bronze. EDIT: Found it I think I've finally discovered why Rashek resents me so very much. He does not believe that an outsider such as myself - a foreigner - could possibly be the Hero of Ages. He believes that I have somehow tricked the philosophers, that I wear the piercings of the Hero unjustly. Edited September 3, 2012 by Observer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Well it could explain his power with bronze. As I said before, we have no idea what kind of spikes these were. They could have granted bronze and it seems likely that's what he got but we can't really know for sure. I still think that as the Well got stronger, any Seeker would have been able to hear its power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Well it could explain his power with bronze. As I said before, we have no idea what kind of spikes these were. They could have granted bronze and it seems likely that's what he got but we can't really know for sure. I still think that as the Well got stronger, any Seeker would have been able to hear its power. I'm almost certain one of Elend's seekers would have heard it if that were so. Somebody would have mentioned it, and yet everybody treats Vin like she's lost her marbles when she mentions it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 Sorry for Shamelessly necroing this thread but I just found So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of feruchemical power. That’s why compounding is so powerful. Which definitely lends credence to magics having some kind of wave-nature, and we're one small step closer to the underlying system in the cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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