Long Game 10: A Game of Shards

[Bort he/him]

Apparently they are not very balanced. We have 11 on Scadrial, or 12 if you include Joe, but he's GM, so he is probably in all the PM threads. No idea about the others.

[Clanky he/him]

There are 5 on Roshar too.

[vineyarddawg]

Apparently they are not very balanced. We have 11 on Scadrial, or 12 if you include Joe, but he's GM, so he is probably in all the PM threads. No idea about the others.

 

Well, the player spread, by design, was not balanced for Day 1.  Everybody got to choose their starting world before the game started. And since everybody gets to choose where they go (or don't go) after that, it'll basically never be balanced.  I think I like the "everybody stay where they are" strategy, too.  Fewer variables, so I think it could be easier to narrow down the bad guys.

 

Also, unrelated n00b question: should we assume that the OC distribution is balanced across all the worlds or by % of total population? That is, should we assume that worlds with more players on Day 1 also have more OC's, or that the OC's are distributed across all the worlds, regardless of population?

 

EDIT: I'm on Roshar, too, and can confirm that Joe is in our PM group.  So he's apparently in everybody's group.

Edited February 3, 2015 by vineyarddawg

[Bort he/him]

Another noob question... If you die, do you get to know who killed you?

Edited February 3, 2015 by Bort

[Clanky he/him]

Another noob question... If you die, do you get to know who killed you?

I'm not sure if you know right away but after the game the GM releases all the stuff from the, Eliminator doc as well as all orders/targets. so you will know at the end of the game at least.

[Guest]

So ultimately, Endowment and Hoid need to come forward.

Cultivation could then talk to Endowment, Ruin and Hoid without any of the other Shards needed.

All of the Shards could Invest Hoid and Honor could repeatedly Lash him.

[Unodus he/him]

Having an overpowered Hoid sounds like a good idea to me :V

We have enough roles to protect him, if he reveals himself :B

[luckat she/her]

Sorry I haven’t posted until now. I don’t have much time now, so I’ll just add my two cents to the discussion going on.

Ruin Killing Inactives

While I think that killing players who are completely inactive is a good idea because it gets rid of dead weight and removes distractions, I’m not sure that this game is the best to do it in, at least immediately. In this game, there is a mechanic to get shards back from inactives, but if we kill them, the shard they hold will be shattered and only the investiture power for that shard will be usable (based on a clarification I got from Joe). I think it might be best for Ruin to wait until an inactive would forfeit their shard if they have one to kill them (of course, if they do forfeit a shard, Endowment will know they are in the clear, but they’re still dead weight). However, by then Ruin might have better guesses as to who the eliminators are anyway. Obviously, what Ruin does is up to his/her discretion. I’m just putting my thoughts out there.

Aonar’s Plan

Revealing all the shards would net us a lot of confirmed players that (I belive) only Odium could kill, and hopefully we could roleblock him before he does too much damage. However, it also maps out exactly who Odium should kill before we figure out who he is. We’d have to depend on specific shards to agree and to not go inactive, and we’d have to hammer out the details before it gets too late in the cycle. At least everyone (even those who haven’t posted) has been on the site since the game started, so hopefully everyone will see if we do decide to go with this plan.

PM Groups

I’m all for staying in the same worlds. It makes it more likely that there are worlds that don’t have any of Odium’s crew and gives them less leeway to spread out.

Voting

It looks like we’ve decided not to lynch anyone this cycle, which is fine with me since we’ve had other things to discuss. There is still an outstanding vote though:

Peng (1): Jain

This leaves the vote open to manipulation by Cultivation, but since Cultivation is a safe role, that probably doesn’t matter.
 

DOesnt it say that Honor can't Lash the same person twice? Or am I getting mixed up with my roles?

 
Devotion can't invest in the same worldhopper twice, but there is not such restriction on Honor's Shardic or Investiture powers.

[dowanx]

I think I agree with meta on killing the inactives.  The inactives aren't helping us at all.  If anything they are actually hurting us.  I would rather remove that from the equation.

 

As for Aonar's plan, it is very bold.  To successfully pull it off will require a lot of trust and some luck.  If Ruin is inactive it just won't work.  Having just Hoid and Endowment come forward so Cultivation can facilitate communication might work, but we would be risking Hoid right at the start.  There are a lot of protective roles so this might be ok, but I need to re read the rules to see if that's the case.  At the very least if we are doing this it needs to be fleshed out a lot more.

 

I am a little hesitant on the PM groups, but I have thought about it more and it seems like a good idea.  When do we have til to let Joe know what world we are staying at?  If we don't mention a world do we just stay at the one we are at?

 

I don't think a lynch will be very helpful at the moment.  That being said there has been a lot of discussion so maybe we do have some suspicions to go off of, but I am not seeing enough to warrant voting so I am holding my vote.

 

Edit - Blue

Edited February 3, 2015 by dowanx

[Peng the Just he/him]

gonna put a vote on Jain to push it to a tie. Take your vote off me, and I'll take mine off you.

[Feligon he/him]

Frank had already packed up when he received the message the Jost and Khriss were both killed by odium.  "Aw crap, him again?"  He was half worried and half excited and half of him felt sorry for them (he did feel like there was 150% of him there).  "This means more people will buy my stuff!" he said excitedly to his axehound.  He also remembered how much trouble Odium could cause.  Contention was good for buisness, true, but everyone dying is even worse.  It would be dangerous, but so was starving.  Frank didn't know exactly how to tell the difference between odium's champions and his allies, but Frank was still determined to help in any way he could.

 

noob rp-er btw

[Peng the Just he/him]

HEY! you! yes, you all powerful shard who's reading this post. You should invest in me. (It's worth a shot, right?)

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

gonna put a vote on Jain to push it to a tie. Take your vote off me, and I'll take mine off you.

I'll take it off once I get onto a laptop again.

[A Joe in the Bush]

I am a little hesitant on the PM groups, but I have thought about it more and it seems like a good idea.  When do we have til to let Joe know what world we are staying at?  If we don't mention a world do we just stay at the one we are at?

The end of the Night Turn.

[Lord Pifferdoo he/him]

(Hi guest account viewing the page)

[Tulir he/him]

Satrams has brought up the possibility of some sort of regulation on world PMs - in the spirit of Meta's strategy of removing Eliminator options. I would propose that we freeze the worlds as they are. The players are distributed semi-randomly, and OCs (I think) would be actually distributed randomly. It's a fair way to divide it up, unless we want to chop up the player list and be certain. 

Overall, I think I agree with freezing the PM worlds, as it prevents people from more overt manipulation, and people will get a degree more of familiarity with the people in their world, allowing them to potentially catch them.  Of course, the reverse is also true, the Eliminators can put more influence onto someone, but I think it is still a boon.  

[Clanky he/him]

There's three people on Yolen besides me. One of them is inactive.

 

What if the only move we do is one player to each other world from Scadrial. The people on Scadrial can collectively decide who goes where. After that we could freeze the movements and proceed with that plan.

 

EDIT grammar

Edited February 3, 2015 by Clanky

[Metacognition he/him]

What if the only move we do is one player to each other world from Scadrial. The people on Scadrial can collectively decide who goes where. After that we could freeze the movements and proceed with that plan.

 

EDIT grammar

 

The problem with doing that is that it would defeat the purpose. Team Rayse could be trying to get one of their own chosen specifically to infiltrate a world in which they don't have anyone. You'd risk a possible clean world just to distribute the numbers a bit more around a bit? I can say that if someone moves to the world I'm on, I would automatically look at them with suspicion just because I wouldn't know how they were chosen. 

 

In case it wasn't obvious, I agree with the idea of locking the worlds (for now at least), but we shouldn't be trying to evenly distribute players between the worlds. If we do that, we're losing the purpose behind why we're locking the worlds in the first place! 

[Clanky he/him]

The problem with doing that is that it would defeat the purpose. Team Rayse could be trying to get one of their own chosen specifically to infiltrate a world in which they don't have anyone. You'd risk a possible clean world just to distribute the numbers a bit more around a bit? I can say that if someone moves to the world I'm on, I would automatically look at them with suspicion just because I wouldn't know how they were chosen. 

 

In case it wasn't obvious, I agree with the idea of locking the worlds (for now at least), but we shouldn't be trying to evenly distribute players between the worlds. If we do that, we're losing the purpose behind why we're locking the worlds in the first place! 

 

I wasn't saying let anyone move I was suggesting a decision among the 11 people on Scadrial to decide who would go. If any of OC's were being too obvious about wanting to move it would just give them away. 

 

I do see how it does slightly negate some of the randomness that could provide a safe world. However it seemed to me like some people were a bit uneasy about the plan because of the unbalanced numbers.

 

EDIT Also it's early enough in the game that I'm still treating everyone with suspicion even if they were out there randomly.

 

EDIT 2: I suppose the reason this won't work is that any of OC's will wait to say they will leave till after someone else has and any non-OC will be hesitant to step forward cause they would be suspicious. You're right cognition this wouldn't work and would just defeat the purpose of the freeze. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Clanky

[ostrichofevil he/him]

I say that whoever is Honor should Lash someone randomly.  Since there are so many Shards, the Spiked have a pretty good chance of hitting one tonight.

[Splinter he/him]

I know that I have been inactive (I am new to this and have had school) but if we remove inactives there is a high chance of shattering shards or killing worldhoppers.  I know that inactives are like deadweights but some could have important roles.  If we kill off good players, the chance of Odium and his champions winning is much greater.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Killing good people is going to happen, regardless of what we plan. At some point, we will kill an innocent. This way, like Eol and Meta have said repeatedly, it convinces the OCs to speak up and makes it easier to judge people for their alignment. There have been multiple times when Eliminators have hid in the Inactives list. This way, it not only makes it easier to catch OCs, but it promotes discussion in general which is always good.

The world freezing idea is a good one, it's just that the less populated planets will be more easily manipulated if there is an OC on that planet. The Unmade could also throw a wrench into this plan if they destroy one of the groups. Overall, I think the plan is good though, since the planet decisions were made before roles were distributed.

[Sart he/him]

Aonar's plan, while well intentioned, has some serious flaws in it. According to the rule clarifications, even if we kill Odium, the last person he invested in receives his shard. Odium knows who his champions are. Let's imagine that we go along with Aonar's scenario. If all the shards reveal who they are, then we can start guessing one by one who has what power. It should be fairly easy to kill Odium's host after one to two days. However, Odium's power will migrate to one of his champions. At this point we should know who all the other shards are, so we would have a trusted group of 6-7, depending on if Endowment reveals himself or not. However, Odium's champions still have two kills. They can have whoever inherited Odium's power kill one of the trusted group, while one of his minions kills someone guaranteed to not be a shard. It's incredibly risky, especially since we would only have three protection roles (Honor, his invested, and a lifeless). Furthermore, none of those roles are in fact safe. Have you guys already forgotten that Joe put all of the Shard's roles, except for Endowment, in blue. Having a large group of trusted players, who may be infiltrated by one of Odium's champions seems way too risky to be worthwhile, especially if it guarantees two kills each night.

 

Quick question to Joe: did you ever decide whether or not the Shards were safe roles or not? That question will greatly impact the validity of Aonar's plan.

Edited February 4, 2015 by a smart guy

[A Joe in the Bush]

I did indeed decide the Shards were Safe, since the minor roles weren't and the OC's have a potential of two kills.

 

Also, one of you knows more about this game then I do. Somebody pointed out to me that Extending Night 1 to 48 Hours would still have a write-up for Saturday, so I'm now extending Night 2 instead. So Night 1 will be 24 hours.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Safe means that they start on Team Villager.