blad3mast3r he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Just saying, Adolin technically put a spike through Sadeas's eye. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Just saying, Adolin technically put a spike through Sadeas's eye. Not really, he jammed a piece of metal through it yes. But I find it highly unlikely that it was a charged Hemalurgic spike. (and yes I get that this was probably meant as a joke, just want to point out there is a difference between a hemalurgic spike and a piece of pointy metal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blad3mast3r he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Not really, he jammed a piece of metal through it yes. But I find it highly unlikely that it was a charged Hemalurgic spike. (and yes I get that this was probably meant as a joke, just want to point out there is a difference between a hemalurgic spike and a piece of pointy metal) Yeah, yeah, I know. .....But it would be cool if....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Just saying, Adolin technically put a spike through Sadeas's eye. Eye see what you did there. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 It would've had to coincidentally passed through a bind point on some poor cremling previously stabbed by the knife, and since it wasn't direct impalement it's probably very weak now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hemalurgy also requires intent to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 We all seem to be forgetting the Spook incident? Not that this should turn into a discussion of Hemalurgy rather than Sadeas being an inquisitor, but... Mistborn Spoilers Spook was spiked in the most accidental way possible. In fact, it was so wildly unlikely that I had to step out of the story for a day to convince myself that it could happen, maybe once in a million years. I was shocked Brandon went with that. The Spook incident shows that intent really doesn't matter in Hemalurgy, and that spiking can happen accidentally (which begs the question of why it hasn't happened on worlds other than Scadrial). As for the potential spike having a charge, there are other Hemalurgic decay topics floating around. I personally think that a spike loses charge anytime it is out of the body, and Vin's earring still granted her some potent power. That being said, Sadeas can't be an inquisitor. He doesn't have the Keystone spike. He was simply brutally murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 We all seem to be forgetting the Spook incident? Not that this should turn into a discussion of Hemalurgy rather than Sadeas being an inquisitor, but... Mistborn Spoilers Spook was spiked in the most accidental way possible. In fact, it was so wildly unlikely that I had to step out of the story for a day to convince myself that it could happen, maybe once in a million years. I was shocked Brandon went with that. The Spook incident shows that intent really doesn't matter in Hemalurgy, and that spiking can happen accidentally (which begs the question of why it hasn't happened on worlds other than Scadrial). As for the potential spike having a charge, there are other Hemalurgic decay topics floating around. I personally think that a spike loses charge anytime it is out of the body, and Vin's earring still granted her some potent power. That being said, Sadeas can't be an inquisitor. He doesn't have the Keystone spike. He was simply brutally murdered. It wasn't an accident. Ruin was guiding that sword. It's in the annotations, will link when not on cellphone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peng the Just he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 things that terrify me: 1. epidemics 2. nuclear weapons 3. the concept of Sadeas being an inquisitor 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 We all seem to be forgetting the Spook incident? Not that this should turn into a discussion of Hemalurgy rather than Sadeas being an inquisitor, but... Mistborn Spoilers Spook was spiked in the most accidental way possible. In fact, it was so wildly unlikely that I had to step out of the story for a day to convince myself that it could happen, maybe once in a million years. I was shocked Brandon went with that. The Spook incident shows that intent really doesn't matter in Hemalurgy, and that spiking can happen accidentally (which begs the question of why it hasn't happened on worlds other than Scadrial). As for the potential spike having a charge, there are other Hemalurgic decay topics floating around. I personally think that a spike loses charge anytime it is out of the body, and Vin's earring still granted her some potent power. That being said, Sadeas can't be an inquisitor. He doesn't have the Keystone spike. He was simply brutally murdered. Yeah as Moogle said, Ruin was the one providing the intent in that scene so it still works. Did you mean the Linchpin spike? Because those are only necessary if you have many different spikes to co-ordinate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Sadeas as an Inqusitor would continue to stubbornly deny that superpowers exist even as he uses them to see and stay alive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Yeah as Moogle said, Ruin was the one providing the intent in that scene so it still works. Did you mean the Linchpin spike? Because those are only necessary if you have many different spikes to co-ordinate them. I can't find the annotation that says Ruin played a part in Spook's spiking. I skimmed through all of them, so I probably had a blind moment when I passed it... And I suppose you are correct regarding the keystone/linchpin spike. Mistborn is my weakest world/magic as far as knowledge goes. I just assumed that having a spike driven through your eyeball (and consequentially your brain, most likely) would require that linchpin spike to keep you going. Blood loss should be a problem that you'd have to counteract, after all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Yeah as Moogle said, Ruin was the one providing the intent in that scene so it still works. Did you mean the Linchpin spike? Because those are only necessary if you have many different spikes to co-ordinate them. I can't find the annotation that says Ruin played a part in Spook's spiking. I skimmed through all of them, so I probably had a blind moment when I passed it... And I suppose you are correct regarding the keystone/linchpin spike. Mistborn is my weakest world/magic as far as knowledge goes. I just assumed that having a spike driven through your eyeball (and consequentially your brain, most likely) would require that linchpin spike to keep you going. Blood loss should be a problem that you'd have to counteract, after all. Eye spikes are one of the ones we know won't kill you, the Inquisitors' brains rearranged themselves, with the exception of Vin's earring all spikes we know are in pretty dangerous areas, many go through vital organs. I'm relatively certain that has nothing to do with the linchpin spike which to my knowledge is just there to help hold the spiritweb together when so many different fragments have been stapled onto you. I know the quote Moogle's talking about but I cannot for the life of me find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Eye spikes are one of the ones we know won't kill you, the Inquisitors' brains rearranged themselves, with the exception of Vin's earring all spikes we know are in pretty dangerous areas, many go through vital organs. I'm relatively certain that has nothing to do with the linchpin spike which to my knowledge is just there to help hold the spiritweb together when so many different fragments have been stapled onto you. I know the quote Moogle's talking about but I cannot for the life of me find it. All right. Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Aha! Ok so I couldn't find it in Annotations but I eventually tracked it down to a Q&A that I don't think has been uploaded to Theoryland yet, hence why I couldn't find it. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4323-seattle-signing-report-out-101413/page-5#entry68265 Ok, I finally have my questions that I asked Brandon transcribed virtually verbatim. I only removed some umms and redundancies. I am going to put each question into it's own quote bubble for clarity. So, here they are (this will be a long-ish post): Q: In the Kaladin-Jost sparring flashback, does Kaladin feel the Thrill? A: Did Kaladin feel the Thrill that, Whaoo, that’s a good question. I’m gonna RAFO that one because something odd is happening there that I don’t want to get into yet. Q: At the Battle of the Tower, the Thrill Dalinar describes seems different from previously described Thrills. Is something different happening here? A: Something different is happening. Q: When burning duralumin to enhance another metal’s burn, does a mistborn get only the sum total of the power of the other metal in a single burst or does he get more than just the sum? A: I would have to make sure and look, but my original intention was the sum. Q: Ok, because the thing I was wondering about is Elend with the duralumin atium burn because it seemed more than just the sum of a bead of atium. A: Right, but the thing you have to keep in mind is the thing I’m kind of looking at having it all happen in a moment. So let’s say you have enough steel to burn for an hour. If you reduce a plane to a point it’s infinite, does that make sense. And so it’s very hard to say is it the sum when you are going from a defined amount into a point, I mean a point is infinitely small. Does that make sense? Q: When a twinborn burns a charged metalmind, does he choose between getting the allomantic effect or the compounding effect or does he just get the compounding effect or does he get both? A: Umm…drr drr drr…I believe it is only the compounded effect. Q: If you shot Miles with pewter bullets through the heart, would the bullets become hemalurgically charged and remove Miles’s bloodmaking ability? A: Umm, you would have to get them in exactly the right place. Q: Oh, so it’s more than just the heart, it’s got to be the right place in the heart? A: Well, you have to, it’s like acupuncture. A hemalurgic spike has to be specifically placed. Q: Well, I don’t mean for placement. I just mean for making Miles a donor. A: You could hemalurgically steal Miles’s power. Q: With pewter bullets? A: I don’t know that bullets would work. But they might. How about this, it is theoretically possible to do what you just described. If you knew what you were doing, because intention is part of a lot of the magic system. Intention is involved. It’s tricky because Ruin did it to people who didn’t know what they were doing, but… Q: But, Ruin intended to do it, though. A: But, Ruin intended to do it and knows how to manipulate it so that intentions would happen. Intention is very important, if you read through the magics, to a lot of them. Q: It is part of the cognitive aspect. A: Yes. Q: Hemalurgically stealing an attribute from someone is usually fatal to the donor. Is that because of the damage to their spiritweb or from the physical damage from the spiking itself? A: Umm, I would say both. Q: Could a Nalthian with the proper knowledge and skill create a hemalurgic spike by spiking a Rosharan having some spikeable attribute? A: Umm, Hemalurgy is of great interest in the Cosmere because it was designed and can be used by anyone on any of the planets who has the right intention. It is of great interest to people for that reason so the answer to your question is: it can be done. I should followed up a little on a couple of the questions, but I was not quick enough on my feet. I will be posting the other Q&A's from other people in the line after I transcribe them. Wetlander had some great questions she said I could post and I may be able to flesh out some of karaoke's and hoser's answers. There were a couple of other people that gave me permission to post their answers as well. So, more to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I apologize, I was wrong about it being in the annotations. Worse, it's not even directly confirmed. Thanks to Voidus for the WoB: A: You could hemalurgically steal Miles’s power. Q: With pewter bullets? A: I don’t know that bullets would work. But they might. How about this, it is theoretically possible to do what you just described. If you knew what you were doing, because intention is part of a lot of the magic system. Intention is involved. It’s tricky because Ruin did it to people who didn’t know what they were doing, but… Q: But, Ruin intended to do it, though. A: But, Ruin intended to do it and knows how to manipulate it so that intentions would happen. Intention is very important, if you read through the magics, to a lot of them. Source in his post. I mean, it's basically confirmation that Ruin was manipulating the guy who attacked Spook, but it's not strong enough for me to go around stating it like fact. Again, my apologies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 It might not be stated Ruin helped Spook's spiking, but it does show the importance of intent. That still begs the question though of how Ruin manipulated the guy that stabbed the dude and Spook. I find it all a bit far-fetched, and really hard to believe. Also sorry for derailing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It's out there somewhere that Ruin was helping to control placement. The most direct in-text example would be when Marsh spiked what's-his-Bob that was elected King of Luthadel over Elend. However, Ruin was in complete control in that example. There is WoB (either in the annotations or elsewhere) indicating that Ruin was helping to guide the sword that nabbed spook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 It might not be stated Ruin helped Spook's spiking, but it does show the importance of intent. That still begs the question though of how Ruin manipulated the guy that stabbed the dude and Spook. I find it all a bit far-fetched, and really hard to believe. Also sorry for derailing... If he can forge handwriting this well he can probably aim a sword pretty well too, with those powers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 If he can forge handwriting this well he can probably aim a sword pretty well too, with those powers... Though altering writing is very mystical, the books went out of their way to point out that unless an individual has some kind of spike/metal in them, Ruin cannot control the individual. Perhaps that is simply me misunderstanding the novels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Though altering writing is very mystical, the books went out of their way to point out that unless an individual has some kind of spike/metal in them, Ruin cannot control the individual. Perhaps that is simply me misunderstanding the novels. Can't control a person, no... but is it possible he could nudge a metal sword so that it pierced the right spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Though altering writing is very mystical, the books went out of their way to point out that unless an individual has some kind of spike/metal in them, Ruin cannot control the individual. Perhaps that is simply me misunderstanding the novels. He can also control the insane. Essentially anyone with a weakness in their mental defences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Though altering writing is very mystical, the books went out of their way to point out that unless an individual has some kind of spike/metal in them, Ruin cannot control the individual. Perhaps that is simply me misunderstanding the novels. Ruin is not altering the writing, necessarily. It's heavily implied, though not confirmed, that the way he does it is by altering people's perceptions, screwing with them at critical moments. After all, he can't see metal; how could he alter the memories stored in it? It seems like he alters the memories as they are being transcribed into the metal, or when they're being read back out. I know there is a WoB all-but-saying this, but I cannot find it. This is incredibly frustrating. I know there were a lot of specifics involved I'm misremembering... Kurk, perhaps you can help if you ever see this? Edit: FOUND IT I HAD PREVIOUSLY USED IT YESSS I am entirely too excited after spending like ten minutes looking: ZAS A question that has it’s roots in Dragonsteel. When Ruin changes words, is he actually changing words,or is he changing what people see? Brandon Sanderson Did we canonize this question Peter? I’m pretty sure we did. I thought we answered this one already.(It’s not in our records if he did) Let’s just say that most of the time, Ruin was searching for a place to transition, where he could change what was being trans-transcribed. Or what was being heard, or what was being said. ZASThat’s pretty interesting. BRANDON SANDERSONSo the easiest time for him is when a scribe is writing in a new book, he’s copying a new book down, and he just pops in and changes the words. ZASOkay. That makes sense. (source) Essentially, I think the way it works (speculation): Ruin can force thoughts into people's minds, like Preservation can read them (supported by WoB). He's particularly good at doing it to people who are mentally imbalanced, because they won't question strange thoughts in their minds, but he is in fact able to do it to normal people too (who will reject the thoughts out of hand for the most part). If he does it to people mid-battle, when they're relying on instincts, they'll not have time to reject the implanted thoughts, which leads to Ruin being able to influence people to, for example, hammer their sword through their fellow bodyguard's chest and into Spook's body, along with the (confused) thought "wouldn't it be nice to steal power?". Edited February 16, 2015 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 ... Alright, thanks Moogle. I can buy into that, but then that begs the question of how likely were the swords to be the right alloy of steel to act as a spike. If Ruin can manipulate like you suggest, getting the man to stab in a specific area wouldn't be difficult, but having the swords be the right alloy still seems like a lot of chance to me. I suppose I don't know if a Hemalurgic spike of a material is the same alloy as that which is usable by Allomancers, I just always assumed it was, and if so then it should be valuable enough that common swords would be made from a different alloy. But perhaps that is incorrect. Regardless, you've convinced me that the situation wasn't as ridiculous as I initially thought it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndrunner he/him Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Though altering writing is very mystical, the books went out of their way to point out that unless an individual has some kind of spike/metal in them, Ruin cannot control the individual. Perhaps that is simply me misunderstanding the novels. Also, on this note, one must remember that all objects and creatures on Scadrial were originally made with a perfect balance of Ruin and Preservation in them (except for humans of course, which have more Preservation than Ruin). With Preservation essentially out of the picture, however, I imagine that Ruin might be able to slightly influence anyone or anything on the planet due to their innate Investiture, though it would be much more effective if they were spiked as there is more Investiture (and therefore more power for Ruin to influence) in a spiked individual than in their normal, unspiked, form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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