ARARITA he/him Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Something has always troubled me about Nightblood's story / origin in Warbreaker ..so... how about : Nightblood is a Lifeless or Lifeless / Awakened Shardblade - the spren was brought back to life my first posted theory so I'm keeping it short and sweet - be gentle ..GO! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Something has always troubled me about Nightblood's story / origin in Warbreaker ..so... how about : Nightblood is a Lifeless or Lifeless / Awakened Shardblade - the spren was brought back to life my first posted theory so I'm keeping it short and sweet - be gentle ..GO! Well we know that on Roshar at least Nightblood is basically considered a Shardblade, just one that's orders of magnitude more invested. In a sense Nightblood is just a Shardblade made with Endowment spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA he/him Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 I know there is a WoB that says paraphrased that Nightblood is basically a shardblade or equivalent i think the voice / the attitude - seems very spren like do any other Awakened objects speak ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 I know there is a WoB that says paraphrased that Nightblood is basically a shardblade or equivalent i think the voice / the attitude - seems very spren like do any other Awakened objects speak ? Returned and Nightblood are the only breath-animated entities known to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA he/him Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 indeed - strange that huh ? wonder why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 The quote for reference's sake: QUESTION If Nightblood were on Roshar would he be a Shardblade? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, they are exactly the same thing. He is a Shardblade that is twisted and is a lot more powerful than normal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA he/him Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Thanks Voidus ! I guess then the question would be - where is Nightblood originally from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 18, 2015 Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 Thanks Voidus ! I guess then the question would be - where is Nightblood originally from ? I don't think it changes anything about his origin, he's still just a normal sword from Nalthis that was Awakened but he needed so many Breaths that he became a splinter of Endowment, much like the spren are Splinters of Honor and Cultivation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA he/him Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) you're probably right - but i don't remember anything that states he is specifically from Nalthis in my mind i think of a shardblade as: a spren's interpretation of an honorblade - from Roshar if from Roshar a shardblade implies to me the blade would come with a "dead" spren taking it to Nalthis you could maybe bring that spren back around by investing if the blade comes from Nalthis would it not just be a living piece of steel ? would it then be considered the same thing as a shardblade ? there is some crossover between planets on this one we are missing maybe what about locallity for magic system ? how is he able to function on Roshar ? IDK maybe it's as simple as you say - so much investment makes it a splinter/spren/shardblade also - Nightblood is larger than normal blade - not sure if that means anything Edited April 18, 2015 by ARARITA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sculpur Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I think your suggestion could be true only if Vasher himself didn't know the whole truth about Nightblood's origin. The fact that he thought the knowledge that was used to create Nightblood was too dangerous to be popularized, and I recall reading the knowledge in question being how to awaken steel, suggests there was nothing otherworldly about his creation. Additional question comes to mind immidiately - do we know the physical composure of a shardblade? I assume the WoB that Nightblood is a shadblade of sorts was meant in more general sense: as in, both objects are swords that have great powers and minds thanks to investiture. You could say that their creations were arriving at the same place by two different roads - Nightblood was made by giving a sword an idea (well, a command) - basically, receiving additions to its cognitive aspect, and shardblades are the result of an idea (a spren) getting the ability to turn into a weapon - receiving additions to its physical aspect. That being said, Nightblood's whole nature has always been bugging me, too. It feels like his mind and his command are too disconnected, considering his intent (or rather, command in this case?) is capable of literally shutting down his mind and completely overwriting it. You might be onto something here, although maybe not exactly what you suggest - perhaps the sapient mind was the result of an effect explained in another WoB - that all magic must be in posession of a sentient entity, and if not, it would gain a mind of its own. I assume that is why certain spren, as splinters, have intelligence in the cognitive realm, and perhaps removing so many breaths, which are essentially the spark of life on Nalthis, away from anything that was ever living, is what, as suggested, caused them to splinter from Endowment and acquire a mind of their own? Edited April 20, 2015 by Sculpur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA he/him Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I have some thoughts and questions about things brought up ok so it was born on Nalthis and isn't a spren from Roshar - if true should it be given a greater consciousness just by being super invested Awakened ? is that what happens at that level of Awakening ? other Awakened objects can't talk or hear thoughts can the breaths be taken back like regular Awakened ? and if it is now a splinter of Endowment how does that manifest through Nightblood ? that personality or morality ? would that make Nightblood Returned ? and Returned what / who ? maybe what Vasher is hiding is a little more than how to Awaken regular metal - maybe worldhopping and Nightblood's origin -- Vasher can sense spren - page 398 hardcover what makes Nightblood twisted ? and black ? and feed on breath ? something happened during the process Edited April 20, 2015 by ARARITA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Vasher sensing spren is hardly unusual with his heightening count. We can throw all we know out the window really, because this isn't really just an awakened sword anymore. Nightblood gets his own category in Vasher's classification system, and really a thousand breaths is quite absurd a number for a single object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA he/him Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) Syl talks to Kal in his head at end of WoR If Nightblood is spren he could bond Szeth Edited April 22, 2015 by ARARITA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) Shardblades and Nightblood are similar is in that they are both highly invested objects. Shardblades are able to communicate telepathically but only do so when being touched and only react to surge binders. Nightblood is able to talk to everyone he chooses. Spren are thoughts and feelings entities of pure consciousness but at the same time tiny pieces of a shard. Nightblood is first a physical and second a conscious entity created by large investiture. He is similar in that his mind is centered around one idea. I don't think he could bond in the same way and provide them with anything It has to do with thought patterns I don't know that Nightblood has the that kind of ability to grow and change. He would have to decide to make a bond like the spren. Spren, Higher Spren that is, forced themselfs into the physical world and created the bond emulate what Honor did to the Hearlds. As a side effect of that when formed into a blade they actually have mass and are fixed to this realm. Nightblood can not be free from the physical realm without being destroyed. I understand where you are coming from, good theory. Edited April 23, 2015 by Arook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA he/him Posted April 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 thanks for all responses - i do understand where everyone is coming from - i just think there is more there and am not convinced differently yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremen Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 ... That being said, Nightblood's whole nature has always been bugging me, too. It feels like his mind and his command are too disconnected, considering his intent (or rather, command in this case?) is capable of literally shutting down his mind and completely overwriting it. I wonder if Nightblood is the way he is because his intent is not very well aligned with Endowment, the shard he is a splinter of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I don't think he could bond in the same way and provide them with anything It has to do with thought patterns I don't know that Nightblood has the that kind of ability to grow and change. He would have to decide to make a bond like the spren. These two WoBs imply heavily that Nightblood does bond, and that this bond (any bond, really) will grant powers on Roshar: Outis If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon and traveled to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond? Brandon Sanderson It would act very very similarly, yes. But it would be like… it wouldn't necesarily do the exact same things. It would be treated the exact same way, but wouldn't grant the same powers. (source) Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher’s Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It’s also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn’t get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he’s a good person. It’s not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers. (source) As to why Nightblood can talk to everyone, Question How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do? Brandon Sanderson It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds. (source) I also disagree that Nightblood is all that different from a spren. He's a combination of a fragment of Endowment and an ideal, or some sort of thought (or Command in this case) given life. That's basically a spren, except spren are Honor/Cultivation/Odium. Just because this Command was infused into a sword doesn't mean he should be considered to be a mostly Physical entity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I had not seen those WoB. So Nightblood basically makes a bond with anyone it tries to interact with but, It has 2 levels of bond it uses to test it's user for evil. evil wont or can not let go, good only touch it if thy have to and if they survive are no longer sickened by it. Just because the bond is basically the same kind of bond does not mean it is going to do anything like the others. Other than feeding off breath I don't think Nightblood gains anything by the bond other than communication. Frankly Nightblood is a little bit of a bond slut. Spren however can not exist in the physical realm without the bond and stay intelligent. Nightblood born in the physical realm can exist on his own. In fact the more he connects to the spiritual realm the less intelligent he becomes. I feel that they are similar but not basically the same. Spren are born of pure thought forged with spirit no physical is involved that's the key difference for me. Although that leads me to a question if Nightblood (sentient inorganic) and Returned (sentient organic) are similar could a returned bond with someone and create a mental link like other fragments. However i was totally wrong on the bonding thing so thank you Moogle +1 for your hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARARITA he/him Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 WoB from theoryland WoT (#22) : Nightblood is a very unique kind of Shardblade, but IS a Shardblade. are we saying that Brandon saying he is a Shardblade is technically correct ? because it is a piece of a shard ? but not a Shardblade since those are from Roshar ....? Semantics ? I still think he's from Roshar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilverDragon he/him Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I think that nightblood is a SHARDblade, because he is probably a splinter of a shard. Any weapon that is a piece of a shard, so a sword made of atium, for example, would be considered a shardblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindrunnerRadiant he/him Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 I think that nightblood is a SHARDblade, because he is probably a splinter of a shard. Any weapon that is a piece of a shard, so a sword made of atium, for example, would be considered a shardblade. I would have to agree. Brandon says Nightblood is a shardblade, but he doesn't say that Nightblood is a spren. It just means that he is a sword with a significant amount of investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilverDragon he/him Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 So what would happen if you made a sword out of atium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindrunnerRadiant he/him Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 you're probably right - but i don't remember anything that states he is specifically from Nalthis in my mind i think of a shardblade as: a spren's interpretation of an honorblade - from Roshar if from Roshar a shardblade implies to me the blade would come with a "dead" spren taking it to Nalthis you could maybe bring that spren back around by investing if the blade comes from Nalthis would it not just be a living piece of steel ? would it then be considered the same thing as a shardblade ? there is some crossover between planets on this one we are missing maybe what about locallity for magic system ? how is he able to function on Roshar ? IDK maybe it's as simple as you say - so much investment makes it a splinter/spren/shardblade also - Nightblood is larger than normal blade - not sure if that means anything As for Nightblood being from Nalthis, he was, in part, created by Vasher. While Vasher is on another world now, that doesn't mean he could worldhop before. Also, your argument about locality and how he can function on Roshar works in reverse: If He's from Roshar, how can he function on Nalthis? Nightblood being longer than a normal blade is just that he was probably made from a longer than normal blade. He certainly doesn't have the proportions of a shardblade either. I have two arguments against the theory as well. 1. If Nightblood was a shardblade (as in a dead spren returned with a massive amount of breath) he should be able to access the surges and allow his user to use them. However, we never see any evidence of this. And Vasher certainly carried him for long enough to know. 2. If Nightblood were a shardblade, he should be extremely light. However, Nightblood is very heavy, as is mentioned on several occasions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 So what would happen if you made a sword out of atium? Very little, I think. Atium isn't a Splinter in the sense that Nightblood or a spren is. Atium can be shaped and molded like any other metal (as the Lord Ruler's bracers/atium spikes show), unlike a Shardblade (which seems indestructible unless the spren chooses to change). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilverDragon he/him Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 So what would a Scadrial Shardblade be made out of? It stands to reason that every shad could have a shardblade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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