What if There Was No Hero of Ages?

[Wherethewindgoes]

In terms of the power in the Well, we have seen two possibilities:

1) Using the power, and Ruin stays imprisoned.

2) Letting go of the power, and Ruin is freed.

But what if neither of these happened? What if no Hero of Ages went to the Well? If the Well's power returned, and no one took it up or let it go, would it simply stay there, or would Ruin be freed?

I would presume something bad would happen if no one went to the Well, because if not, why would the Terris prophecies saying someone needs to go to the Well exist? Sazed says in the HoA epigraphs that Ruin changed the prophecies, but did not fabricate them. If nothing happens when the Well's power is left alone...how did the Terris people figure out about the Well and think there was a need for someone to do something with the power there?

Any thoughts?

[dyring]

Pretty sure the mists came anyway.

What was called the deepness came before Alendi went to the well. Would get stronger/thicker all the time. Been wondering if it was not the "overflowing" of the well wich caused it. That the well was full, so the extra power went to the mists, making them stay during the day.

Ofcourse, after ruin was freed, none went to the well at all, and thats why the mist grew stronger then.

Likely the "thumping" from the well would grow stronger too. Eventually, any bronceburner would hear it thumping loudly.

[Wherethewindgoes]

Ah, I didn't think about the Deepness. However, do you think there would be any actual effects on Ruin and Preservation if the Well was left alone? Other than the Deepness, which was Preservation's own doing in order to fight Ruin.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I think that the Hero Of Ages needed to 'renew' the prison from time to time.

So I'm guessing that it would eventually release Ruin

Edited January 12, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Oudeis he/him]

I'm guessing that it would eventually release Ruin

If so, why would Ruin have tried to get Alendi to go to the Well? He could simply have spent the past thousand years erasing any memory of its existence from the Terris prophecies.

I know bronzeburners would have sensed it eventually, but Allomancy was far weaker in those days; as a powerful Mistborn with a Hemalurgic boost to her Bronze, it was already fading when Vin was just a couple days' easy travel out of Luthadel. I would suspect that the millenial power isn't infinite; it would eventually have capped. If Ruin just had to wait, he could have, and been freed.

I agree with Dyring; in the specific case of Alendi, if no one had done anything, humans might well have died from the mists. Who knows what things people used the power to do before him?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Ruin is shortsighted. When he has the choice between 'get free in ten thousand years' and 'maybe win now', he'll pick the second one every time. And what does he have to lose?

And even if a hero comes along regularly, things'll tick down eventually.

Kaimipono (16 October 2008)

What was Vin supposed to do at the end of Well of Ascension? How exactly did not-using the power, end up releasing Ruin? I still don't get how that all worked. Can you explain it?

Brandon Sanderson (17 October 2008)

What was she supposed to do? Well, this is difficult to answer, since the prophecies have been changed and shifted so much. Originally, the prophesies intended for a person to go take the power every thousand years and become a protector of mankind for a period of time. Someone to keep an eye on Ruin in Preservation's absence and watch over the world as he would have done. Imagine an avatar who arrives every thousand years and lives for their lifetime blessing the people with the power of Preservation, renewing Ruin's prison, and generally being a force for protection. (Note that Ruin wouldn't have gotten out if the prison wasn't renewed, he'd simply have been able to touch the world a little bit more.) Obviously, it changed a LOT during the years that Ruin was playing with things.

What should she have done? Well, Ruin's release was inevitable. Even if she hadn't let him go, the world would have 'wound down' eventually. The ashfalls would have grown worse over the centuries, and the next buildup of the Well might not have come in time for them to do anything. Or, perhaps, mankind would have found a way to adapt. But Ruin was going to get himself out eventually, so the choice Vin made was all right. There weren't really any good choices at this point. She could have decided to take the power and become a 'good' Lord Ruler, trying to keep the world from falling apart. Of course, she would have had to make herself immortal with Hemalurgy to make that work right. And since she was already tainted, chances are good she wouldn't have ended up any better than the Lord Ruler himself.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Vortaan he/him]

So if the original purpose is that the Well is used every thousand years, no matter what... where are these other Lord Rulers? Some probably became gods in Scadrial religions, but where are the others? Is it possible that Feruchemy is a result of one of these tamperings with the Well?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

So if the original purpose is that the Well is used every thousand years, no matter what... where are these other Lord Rulers? Some probably became gods in Scadrial religions, but where are the others? Is it possible that Feruchemy is a result of one of these tamperings with the Well?

I suspect that the Lord Ruler was the first, actually.

[name_here]

I think the Well would have gotten weaker but never entirely failed. Ruin could have killed everyone but not physically destroyed the world.

[Wherethewindgoes]

I suspect that the Lord Ruler was the first, actually.

I think you're right; it's been said that the first Mistborn weren't there, and the first Lerasium were not ingested, until the Lord Ruler went to the Well. Although, it is strange that no one else had Ascended before. The Well wasn't created until humans were, and since humans were created in their present forms by Ruin and Preservation, they wouldn't need time to evolve. It's possible that Rashek's Ascension was the first ever.

If that's true, though, how would the Terris people know about the Well in order to write prophecies about it?

Edited January 14, 2013 by Wherethewindgoes

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I think you're right; it's been said that the first Mistborn weren't there, and the first Lerasium were not ingested, until the Lord Ruler went to the Well. Although, it is strange that no one else had Ascended before. The Well wasn't created until humans were, and since humans were created in their present forms by Ruin and Preservation, they wouldn't need time to evolve. It's possible that Rashek's Ascension was the first ever.

If that's true, though, how would the Terris people know about the Well in order to write prophecies about it?

They worshiped Preservation - who has some pretty good future sight. Obviously he left notes.

[tecslicer]

It's possible that Rashek's Ascension was the first ever.

If that's true, though, how would the Terris people know about the Well in order to write prophecies about it?

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727#43 In this answer Brandon states that the prophesies were corrupted. So, we really don't know what they said to begin with or in what language even. He says "The ashfalls would have grown worse over the centuries, and the next buildup of the Well might not have come in time for them to do anything." So maybe only two accentions...

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=691#6

This question mentions previous assentions, but Brandon does not address it.

Either way, The Bump texts by Sazed indicate that Rashek was a bit foolhardy, or ambitious. If the previous Heroes took the power and realized the tyranny that could come about if Allomancy and Feruchemy joined; or they interpreted the urge to preserve as maintaining the status quo (Rather than needing to personally ensure the continuation), they might have left the beads, or hidden them.

Edit:

Thought about it some more, and wonder where the Ceramic bead holders came from. Also, it makes sense to me that the Terris people would realize that they need to isolate their sDNA to prevent allomancy and Feruchemy mixing, because they saw it when using the power. Further, they were almost up to steam power by Rashek's time. They would need a bit of time to advance that far. It could be either way, but I really like the idea that there were a bunch of these cycles before the Dark One's prison had weakened enough for him to touch the world. I mean Ruin...

Edited January 15, 2013 by tecslicer

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I think Rashek raised the ashmounts, though. The ashfalls were his fault.

[name_here]

He raised the Ashmounts, but Ruin intensified their activities. Scadrial was pretty messed up but stable before Ruin started meddling. They were getting thicker and cooling the planet further. The winter during The Final Empire included no snow whatsoever, while the one in Well Of Ascension had quite a lot of snow.

[happyman he/him]

Scadrial was pretty messed up but stable before Ruin started meddling.

I think this statement is not correct. In my view, Scandrial was messed up and unstable, but the Lord Ruler and his government was managing to hold it up so that most people couldn't see how it was slowly slipping lower. When tLR died, he dropped his part entirely, and it began failing more quickly. It was falling the entire time, however.

[Windrunner he/him]

I see a view kinda midway between you guys. Scadrial was semi-stable, but slowly growing worse. TLR, I'm sure, did keep misinformation going during his empire, but things were assuredly getting worse. Brandon's on record as saying that even if Vin hadn't released Ruin the world might have wound down on its own before the next filling occurred. Ruin indubitably hurried things along though.