One Question I Never Understood the Answer To (Spoilers)

[Zas678 he/him]

My understanding is that the giant Aon Rao (Elantris) was a "bridge", connecting the spirits of the Elantrians with the Spirit of Adonalsium/Power of Creation (the same power that's used when Allomancers burn metal). This Power (called Dor in book), is what changes the bodies so they heal faster, run faster, and even seem to shine.

When the land changed, it "broke" the bridge so that it didn't provide all the energy it should. This meant the Elantrian bodies, which were used to such power coming through, all of the sudden had very little power coming through. Thus they "froze" in their state, making the bodies stick with the pain, not need food, etc.

There's a question. Which came first- Elantris or Seons? If Elantris came first, than Aona could've designed it. But if the Seons came first, probably some very very smart people looked at the Aons inside the Seons and designed Elantris from that.

Hmm. There's another question- did the Shaod (when people turn into Elantrians) happen before Elantris was built? In other words, are there Pre-Elantrian Elantrians? If so, they may have been able to make Elantris, though any Aons they made would probably be extremely weak.

So, if Seons were before Elantris, than there must have been some Shaod that made people that were able to make Aons, who were probably fairly intelligent to make an ongoing phenomenon like that.

If Elantris was before Seons, than Aona probably directed the construction, and then part of Elantris may also be in charge of the Shaod.

Also- does it seem to anyone else that Raoden seems gifted with AonDor the way that Vin was talented with Allomancy? Is there a chance that Raoden could "tape" together the Splinters of Aona's shard to make a new shard, which he could hold?

Except that Hoid wrote in his letter that Odium broke the shards so no one could use them. Darn. That defeats my idea.

[Puck he/him]

Q:

Hmm. There's another question- did the Shaod (when people turn into Elantrians) happen before Elantris was built? In other words, are there Pre-Elantrian Elantrians? If so, they may have been able to make Elantris, though any Aons they made would probably be extremely weak.

So, if Seons were before Elantris, than there must have been some Shaod that made people that were able to make Aons, who were probably fairly intelligent to make an ongoing phenomenon like that.

A:

Only Elantrians can draw Aons in the air, so someone taken by the Shaod must have developed the writing system. That is part of what makes writing a noble art in Arelon

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Presumably it means  that Odium/Rayse and whoever wrote the letter, think that Splinters can't be reunited. But then Sazed combined two different Shards, so maybe somebody could repair the Splintered Shards.

[Zas678 he/him]

Except that Elantris is hundreds of years before WoK. Considering that Elantris 2 is 10 years after (and the same with Elantris 3, I think), Raoden would've already united the shard by the time Hoid wrote the letter. It would've been ancient history by then (by our standard).

[happyman he/him]

Since reading the annotations, my theory has been that pre-Elantris and pre-Reod, the "ur-Elantrians" were people who were slightly stronger, somewhat healthier, and could draw relatively weak aons (this would still be a very useful magic system; see what Raoden did with even the limited bits he could access).  From the study of Aons, they realized that a city-sized Aon with the right modifiers would give them an enormous advantage in just about everything they did, so they built said city and created their utopia, not realizing that the whole thing was on a precipice that might some day break.  When it did break, the resulting physical state was worse than before Elantris existed, just like being treated with a badly drawn Aon is worse than being sick.

[Silus - Shard of Flame he/him]

The Reod didn't break Elantris itself, it created a new geographical landmark prominent enough to affect the base Aon, thus making all Aons using the old model invalid/broken, including the Elantris Aon.

[happyman he/him]

The Reod didn't break Elantris itself, it created a new geographical landmark prominent enough to affect the base Aon, thus making all Aons using the old model invalid/broken, including the Elantris Aon.

I was speaking metaphorically.  The city proper was unaffected, true.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

Since reading the annotations, my theory has been that pre-Elantris and pre-Reod, the "ur-Elantrians" were people who were slightly stronger, somewhat healthier, and could draw relatively weak aons (this would still be a very useful magic system; see what Raoden did with even the limited bits he could access).  From the study of Aons, they realized that a city-sized Aon with the right modifiers would give them an enormous advantage in just about everything they did, so they built said city and created their utopia, not realizing that the whole thing was on a precipice that might some day break.  When it did break, the resulting physical state was worse than before Elantris existed, just like being treated with a badly drawn Aon is worse than being sick.

It was driving me CRAZY looking for this reference, but finally I found it. The pre-Reod Elantrians didn't build the city, they found it empty and after they had been there for a time, the first Elantrians appeared:

The story tells of the first princess of Arelon. This was some years after the founding of Arelon following the migration of the Aonic people from other lands. Elantris, of course, had already existed as a city when that migration occurred, and had been discovered empty. While some people assumed it haunted, Proud King Rhashm (later renamed Raoshem) determined to conquer the fears of his people and set up a kingdom centered on Elantris.

The transformation of the first Elantrians happened beginning several decades later. Princess Elashe—the first of Raoshem's line to be chosen as an Elantrian—claimed to have seen the pattern of this Aon inscribed on a coal in her hearth the day after she underwent the transformation. Whether or not this story is true, a coal or rock written with Aon Ehe on it is considered good luck and a ward against winter spirits. (Though this kind of superstition is frowned upon by the Korathi priests.)

My thought is that Aona created the city for future refugees or migrants

[SOM1else he/him]

I think the Elantrian's of Pre-Elantris Opelon were similar to the Elantrians at the end of Elantris. At some point the Pre-Elantris Elantrians built Elantris as an Aon to magnify their power. They built it as Aon Rao because they knew that that Aon would increase their power and they set it to target all Elantrians. When the earthquake came and caused the Chasm to form the Elantris-Aon acted in the same way that the Aon that was but on Hrathen's wife behaved because it was formed wrong. So the Pre-Elantris Elantrians wouldn't be in Zombie Form because there was no Aon acting on them.

[Guest Galavantes]

Eh, no need for rampant topic merging, I should think, especially as I look at this, I see a very key distinction--the Shaod--which isn't really addressed in the other topic, trendkill.

I don't have any answer for you, DariusJenai. That would require knowing what sort of mechanism causes the Shaod. Some have theorized that it's similar to Snapping in some regard, but as far as I know, that's as far as the theories go. Brandon's really quiet on divulging information about Elantris. Way of Kings gave us extra information, but there are a lot of questions that still need answering.

I'd sure like to know what causes the Shaod...

What information did we get about Elantris from WOK?

[Chaos he/him]

The fact that the two Shardholders on Elantris's world, Aona and Skai, are dead.

(I try to keep spoilers from separate series separate)

[Aashyma she/her]

I'd sure like to know what causes the Shaod...

I have a theory of sorts based on my reading of tWoK.

What if the Shaod is triggered by a certain level of dedication to one's passion?

Some men were farmers because they had no other choice,

but Galladon seemed to find true enjoyment in the activity.

And again

The squat-bodied

former baron had spent the entire week cataloguing each carving, sculpture, or relief

in the chapel area. He had already discovered, in his words, "at least a dozen new

techniques."

Kahar the street cleaner:

The

old man had been cleaning furiously in the days since his arrival, and the time had

finally come for the final polishing.

Karata's devotion as a mother (she broke out of Elantris twice) as well as her dedication as a caregiver are well documented as is Saolin's to his post as bodyguard.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Aashyma

[Windrunner he/him]

I've been thinking along the same lines lately except I would replace dedication with Devotion, which is like 99% confirmed by Brandon to be Aona's shard in one of the recent interviews (I think the 17th shard one). If this is true this might have some interesting insight for as too what shard Skai is if we can figure out how the people of Dakhor got their powers.

[Aashyma she/her]

I've been thinking along the same lines lately except I would replace dedication with Devotion, which is like 99% confirmed by Brandon to be Aona's shard in one of the recent interviews (I think the 17th shard one). If this is true this might have some interesting insight for as too what shard Skai is if we can figure out how the people of Dakhor got their powers.

You don't need to put a spoiler-your post is relevant to the thread

I think Skai's power manifests itself via fanaticism-a mad, illogical belief in something.

Which would be why Hraiden (sp?) couldn't go through with it?

[Windrunner he/him]

Yeah you're right about the spoilers. I think your idea about Skai is a good one except I think that his (Skai is a guy right?) shard is Unity. Which makes a lot of sense about how Fjorden is unifying the whole world into one country, and how Shu-Korath, Shu-Dereth, and Shu-Keseg all preach unity.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I think Aashayma has an interesting point about the Shaod. I would add that it seems like Raoden himself was very devoted to his people.

[Zas678 he/him]

That's actually... a remarkably good theory. I like that idea, that the Shaod is following people who either have great dedication for what they are doing, or even better, great love for what they do.

[Musicspren he/him]

I have a theory of sorts based on my reading of tWoK.

What if the Shaod is triggered by a certain level of dedication to one's passion?

I thought for a while about this, and I've decided I think it may be highly accurate. It kept bothering me that people seemed so willing to work in Elantris when they had a system nearer to socialism than capitalism. No, they almost certainly weren't doing things in the most efficient possible way (an effect of their flawed economic system), but there were doing things. Even though they would appear to have been compensated relatively little for what they did (or the quality with which the did it), they worked anyway, and did well. And therein lies the "Devotion". They were dedicated enough to their trade that just doing it was enough reward. Were New Elantris populated with "normal" people, who weren't so devoted, it would have collapsed, Raoden's charisma notwithstanding. Although Shaor is somewhat problematic for this thought, she may have just been particularly devoted to being served (and had gathered some devoted followers).

In other words, this might explain the choice of people (apart from geographic location) and why their society worked at all.

[Turos he/him]

So, then, reading through all of that got me thinking.

What would happen to an elantrian, after the Reod and before the fixing of Elantris-Aon Rao, if they were to manage to escape the city and travel outside of the maximum range the Colossal Rao had on Elantrians?

If it's true that the Colossal Rao was not required for the Shaod process, wouldn't the elantrian be 'cured' of the hampering effects that the 'broken' Aon caused?

It that's the case, then what exactly makes the difference between a faulty Aon and just a bunch of glowing lines that will fade away without effect of any sort?

Another thought that came to mind is: what if the elantrian who was treating Dilaf's wife had some idea of who he was or what he stood for and decided to screw up the Aon and make it look like a mistake? I wouldn't want to admit that to my fellow do-goodery elantrians if I had a vendetta against someone.

[Aeshdan he/him]

Ien is actually the aon for Wisdom. I looked through the Ars Arcanum and didn't see any aon for healing. Shao would make sense, but we'll have to wait and see (I'm only about halfway through my Elantris re-read, if it's in there at all). If anyone knows which aon is used for healing, let us know.

EDIT: I stand corrected, CrazyRioter. You're right: Ien is the base aon of healing, assuming that Raoden's memory of his healing is accurate. I just got to that part in the book (p. 266)

This is a question that has nagged at me for a while. I have a few theories, all equally (ill-)supported by what we know.

Theory #1: Like you said, the healing Aon itself is different from all other Aons.

---Objection: While this is the simplest (in the Occam sense) of the theories, it seems a little wand-wavy for Brandon's style.

Theory #2: Aons act differently when targeting a person. Therefore, they haywire differently when targeting a person.

---Objection: Same as the Theory #1 (but to a lesser degree)

Theory #3: (This theory is a little out there, but it might have a kernel of something.) The reason the Seala case is an exception is because of Dilaf's presence (I asked this question on the recent open call for answers from Brandon. We'll see if it's a RAFO), because of his FjorDor (or DakhorDor, or whatever we're deciding to call it) nature. There was, for lack of a better analogy, a kind of incompatible wave interference while the Elantrian was casting the Aon to heal Seala. After all, it says in the book that the spell "went wrong," not that a mistake was made or a line left out.

---Objection: It kind of throws out the window my big explanation earlier on in the thread :/

---Objection: It presupposes that the power behind FjorDor (presumably Skai's, but not necessarily... but that's another discussion) was also involved with the Reod, an assumption which (as far as I know) has been pretty much discounted on the forums and by Brandon.

---Objection: Assuming that we get over the previous objection, it presupposes that there is some kind of innate animosity/incompatibility between Aona's Shard and the shard behind FjorDor. While this is possible, it hasn't been established and would be a little too reminiscent of MB, which you'd think Brandon would be avoiding (unless, of course there's an underlying logic to why opposing shards would land on the same planet (magnets, opposite poles attracting, etc.) but, again, that is a question for a different thread.) Anyway, it presupposes something pretty major for which we have little (some, but little) evidence.

Anyway, those are the explanations that I've come up with, though all are clearly lacking.

Theory # 4 Omitting a line produced an Aon, but a completely different one from the intended Aon. Like when you take a letter out of "stick" and get "sick".

[name_here]

Yeah, omitting the line could have produced a heavily-modified transformation Aon of some sort centered on one of the Aon Aon symbols elsewhere in the healing Aon.

[Turos he/him]

O.o

That's deep!

[gess789]

"4) The Sickness can affect anyone (Elantrian or not) who is targeted by an Aon-gone-wrong (and it doesn't affect people who aren't targeted by an Aon-gone-wrong)"

why when Master Spirt did them did they not damage any one?

-gess789

[Windrunner he/him]

Yeah, the reasons why some Aons have bad effects when drawn incorrectly and sometimes they do nothing is still unclear. The Rao of Elantris was still giving off some power and the Ien that was used on Dilaf's wife obviously did something. There has to be a distinction somewhere in there. Do you have any ideas?

[gess789]

4) The Sickness can affect anyone (Elantrian or not) who is targeted by an Aon-gone-wrong (and it doesn't affect people who aren't targeted by an Aon-gone-wrong)

What about when "Master Spirt" does the aons wrong? they don't hurt any one.

Edited September 11, 2012 by gess789