leinton Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 So, I was just rereading Way of Kings the other day in my family's lack of interwebs (our wireless is broken), and I found something interesting during Hoid's talk with Kaladin. "Another time, I was named for a rock." "A pretty one, I hope." "A beautiful one," the man said. "And one that became worthless for my wearing it." Page 801Is it possible that Hoid was at one point a shardholder? Or maybe this rock is the mysterious "element" he spoke of in his letter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 Oh, I know an important piece to that puzzle, but it's still very much an open question. Theorize away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariusJenai Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Oh, I know an important piece to that puzzle, but it's still very much an open question. If it's a Dragonsteel piece, and you don't mind sharing, can you PM it to me? I've been wanting to read it, but.... As far as Hoid goes, I'm slowly gathering evidence for a Hoid theory, but I'm not quite ready to throw it all out there yet. Let's just say that if I'm right, Hoid will wind up being WAY more important in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Rock is also named for a rock. just throwing it out there 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal he/him Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Rock is also named for a rock. just throwing it out there You have just blown my mind. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 he/him Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 And if Hoid started wearing Rock? Pretty sure people wouldn't value either of them too highly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew the Great he/him Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 I like this theory. It opens up all kinds of new possibilities. Of course, then Hoid would have to be calling himself Rock as well, but it's not too far out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Von Kelsier Harvey he/him Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 No, then he'd be calling himself Numuhukumakiakiaialunamor. (I spelled that from memory. I'm pretty sure there should be an apostrophe.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 that pretty good spelling from memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame he/him Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 No, then he'd be calling himself Numuhukumakiakiaialunamor. (I spelled that from memory. I'm pretty sure there should be an apostrophe.) I'm pretty sure that's accurate. I'll check tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Oh, I know an important piece to that puzzle, but it's still very much an open question. If it's a Dragonsteel piece, and you don't mind sharing, can you PM it to me? I've been wanting to read it, but.... Uh... PM me. I can't divulge anything, though, about unpublished works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whynaut Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 So, I was just rereading Way of Kings the other day in my family's lack of interwebs (our wireless is broken), and I found something interesting during Hoid's talk with Kaladin. Page 801 Is it possible that Hoid was at one point a shardholder? Or maybe this rock is the mysterious "element" he spoke of in his letter? I just finished re-reading that page and wondered if there was a litte more to it than that. Consider the whole quote: “I’ve many.” The man shook Kaladin’s hand. “I began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page. That was another thing I stole. Myself. Another time, I was named for a rock.”“A pretty one, I hope.” “A beautiful one,” the man said. “And one that became completely worthless for my wearing it.” “Well, what do men call you now?” “Many a thing, and only some of them polite. Almost all are true, unfortunately. You, however, you may call me Hoid.” “Your name?” “No. The name of someone I should have loved. Once again, this is a thing I stole. It is something we thieves do.” Wit/Hoid is known for being, well, witty. Like a good Shakespearean fool, he speaks truths in nonsense. In the first line he says that he was "a thought", then stole "myself", and named for a "rock". We figure that the rock was possibly a shard “A beautiful one". As for the rest of it, remember that shardholders take on the aspects of the shards they hold "Ati was once a kind and generous man". Maybe Hoid is more aware than the other shardholders (assuming he is a shardholder) that whomever he is now, he is nothing like the person he was before he attained a shard. No, the person he is now would be much closer to the aspect of the shard he is holding. So in reality, he is more an aspect of Adonalsium i.e. "a thought", than the person holding it. In the same way concepts like Ruin was a thought or concept of Adonalsium that dominated Ati. When Hoid says that he stole himself, he may be referring to the time when the human revived his shard (or more accurately, when the shard received its human). Sadly, despite the power that person had received, that person was still not as grand as Adonalsium or even as a pure shard aspect without a human mind tainting it. Hence, the rock "became completely worthless for my wearing it.” On a similar note, I wonder if the name Hoid actually was the name of the person who had received the shard? "The name of someone I should have loved." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame he/him Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 That would make a lot of sense if Hoid was a normal Shardholder, which he's not if he even has a Shard at all (which I'm pretty sure he doesn't). The problem is that Shardholder's don't have human bodies, they just can't hold all that power, as evidenced by Vin's puffing into smoke at the end of HoA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whynaut Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) That would make a lot of sense if Hoid was a normal Shardholder, which he's not if he even has a Shard at all (which I'm pretty sure he doesn't). The problem is that Shardholder's don't have human bodies, they just can't hold all that power, as evidenced by Vin's puffing into smoke at the end of HoA. That's a good point. Still, I wonder if Hoid could find a way around such a limitation? If not a normal shard exactly, perhaps it has something to do with the unknown element he keeps around. And something tells me that he keeps the element on his person. "I protect its safety like I protect my own skin" is just too odd a euphemism to make me think that it is anything but literal. Edited August 13, 2011 by whynaut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 actually Brandon has specifically said in an interview (think it was the goodreads.com one) that Hoid isn't a Shardholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayde he/him Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Maybe he originally was, knew that his mind was being molded by the shard's intent, and gave it up so that he wasn't completely lost to the shard's power. Maybe he thinks that a shard is best wielded by someone who isn't influenced by their shard's intent, and so because he was being influenced, he felt that the shard had become meaningless and gave it up to somebody else. Cosmere related ramblings: Wild idea: Hoid was the original holder of Ruin and gave it to Ati? That would explain how he knew how Ati used to be. But I doubt this is the case since Hoid calls what he held a "rock" and the shards on Scadrial are more related to mist. Still an interesting idea. If Hoid were to hold a shard, it would have probably been something related to Roshar (or maybe Sel since Aona is related to land?) since that's a very rocky place, assuming a shard's physical presence is related to the world it's on. Huh. This raises an interesting question and brings up something of a basis for a theory. But I'm not sure if someone else has posted something like it. Maybe each shard has a physical presence in its world. On Scadrial, Ruin and Preservation are mist. On Nalthis, Endowment might be the Tears of Edgli. On Roshar the shards might be the highstorms. Hmm... Edited August 13, 2011 by Zayde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 well IDK if you can just give up a Shard like that, I think once you take the whole thing, you can't give it up voluntarily and have to be killed to be separated from it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja he/him Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 actually Brandon has specifically said in an interview (think it was the goodreads.com one) that Hoid isn't a Shardholder. I've gotten the impression that authors in interviews about their series, while unable to lie, will sometimes say misleading things to tease the fans. (Kinda like Aes Sedai) "Hoid isn't a Shardholder" actually works pretty well with "Hoid used to hold a shard, and got rid of it/lost it." We really don't know the rules well enough to say that it can't be given up or transferred without the holder's death. Has Brandon said anything on that issue? I like the theory myself. I got the same impression from his speech. “A beautiful one,” the man said. “And one that became completely worthless for my wearing it.” Would that line mean it became Splintered or otherwise weakened as a result of him bearing/losing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstRainbowRose she/her Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 Part of that speech can be explained by something on our forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Scientist he/him Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 Part of that speech can be explained by something on our forums. That comment's not at all tantalizing and mysterious, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link Von Kelsier Harvey he/him Posted August 15, 2011 Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 *CoughDragonsteelCough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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