Questions regarding the Lord Ruler

[Ark]

Hi all! I am new to this forum. I have just re-read the first Mistborn novel (third time actually, that's my favorit from Brandon) I like the story for it's serried and there are so many signs forecasting future events even in the begining. Yet there are some thing I don't understand. Whatch out for it contains many spoiler! And pls. excuse me for my poor english. Thx.

 

Why was the Lord Ruler so powerfull? I mean ok, he was strong misborn and feruchemist, but I do believe it doesn't explain everything. If I am right mixing these powers "only" means that he can use feruchemist skills ten time stronger than others and mistborn skills. So yes, he is truly powerfull but he can run out of power. So I guess he alone couldn't fight against ten thousand skaa for example. It would simply take too much time. And one other thing: the Lord Ruler himself said that he had been burned and even cut into pieces. Vin could kill him by simply removing his metals. So I guess if you truly cut him into pieces then you actually remove his metals as well. At least from most of the body parts. Killing an inquisitor needs to remove the metal from the back which can be done by cutting his head. According to this killing the Lord Ruler looks easier (with ten thousend skaa for example) becouse in his case it is enough to cut his head or arm for his age preserving metals are on his arms. And actually one could build traps without metals. Could he actually kill all the skaas in Luthadel as he said if his opponents fought all against him?

 

Why didn't the Lord Ruler take controll over Marsh when he realised Marsh had betrayed him?

 

Why did the Lord Ruler used hemalurgy (or however it is said) when he fought all along against Ruin and he known that Ruin can take controll over those who has hemalurgy spikes? I mean he must have known this becouse he asked the Kandras to commit suitcide once Ruin returns. If he cared about this in case of the kandras then why didn't do anything with inquisitors and koloss'?

 

Why the Lord Ruler couldn't build an empire which wouldn't rebel against him? I mean he changed the people. He could make the skaas unable to have children with the nobels, couldn't he? That could solve a lot of problem for him.

 

Did the Lord Ruler use hemalurgy on himself? If yes what skill did he gained? If not how could Ruin talk to him?

Edited April 19, 2013 by Ark

[Vortaan he/him]

So taking them one by one.

 

1) The Lord Ruler was powerful because of three factors, as far as I can tell. He was a Feruchemist, he was a Mistborn who got his powers from Lerasium which confers a larger base power, and he used the Well of Ascension. The third is personal speculation, but attuning the actual power of Preservation has to confer at least a little power bonus. TLR also had access to metals that no one else knew about.

 

2) I do think he could have killed all the skaa in Luthadel by himself. Most of his opponents would be untrained skaa, with next to no knowledge of Allomancy, and definitely no knowledge of Feruchemy. Yes, taking his atium bands could be easy for ten thousand skaa to do... if they thought of it. Vin only figured it out because of a sketchy knowledge of Feruchemy plus knowledge that TLR was a Feruchemist. Also a lot of TLR's bragging about what he survived is somewhat exaggerated. Word of Brandon is that if you completely sever the head (and no part of it is touching, so a wide enough blade to separate head from neck), you kill someone tapping health.

 

3) I honestly think he didn't take over Marsh because he was just that confidant. Even two Mistborn posed no real threat to him until Vin drew on the mists, something that is outside anyone's experience. 

 

4) While with Inquisitors it's a good question, Koloss TLR expected to die off. They kill each other regularly and he figured that they would continue to do so. The jump they make that allows them to make new koloss TLR never predicted. To err is human...

 

5) I think that changing the skaa so that they couldn't have children with nobles smacks too much of Ruin to be able to accomplish with Preservation's power. Also, remember that Rashek was a young man from a pastoral society. He is a genius, but maybe not too great at forward planning.

 

6) I don't think he did, but the piercings in his arms allowed Ruin access to him. It was probably a trade for having Feruchemical storages that couldn't be affected by Allomancy.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

The lord ruler *also* is a savant (or near savant) with every metal, had hemalurgic enhancements, and there are a couple of interview questions that imply he figured out how to somehow enhance allomancy with feruchemy.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Ark]

Thank you for the quick answers!

 

Vortaan:

1: Ok. Actually I agree with your speculation I still belive that allomancy and feruchumy doesn't give that much power.

 

2: Hmmm. Maybe with his strong allomantic power he could make the skaas fear him and they wouldn't even fight. However if cutting his head is a solution too then I don't think the untrained skaa wouldn't know how to kill him. They saw how Kelsier killed the inquisitor. I guess they could at least give it a try. Or they could somehow immobilize and imprison him. Then they could find out how to destroy him.

'You think this is the first time someone has tried to kill me, child? I've survived burnings and beheadings. I have been stabbed and sliced, crushed and dismembered. I was even flayed once, near the begining." - So how did he survived these? Becouse most of them means that his metals (or his head) are removed.

 

3: Ok

 

4: Ok, I forgot about Koloss. It was written in one of the books that they should have killed each other. Still wondering about inquisitors.

 

5: Ok. And maybe he had some more important task and time was sort.

 

6. Then no need for hemalurgy for Ruin to affect someone? It make sense. If I remember correctly Marsh didn't use hemalurgy on Penrod and Ruin could talk to him. I will check that.

 

 

 

Phantom Monstrosity: is it sure that the Lord Ruler had hemalurgic enhancements?

[Morsk he/him]

2: Hmmm. Maybe with his strong allomantic power he could make the skaas fear him and they wouldn't even fight.

We've seen how powerful his Soothing is, and I can believe he could kill thousands of skaa by overwhelming them with it, and using Feruchemical speed and other abilities to be unstoppable. It raises a new question of why his Soothing was so powerful though, and we aren't sure of the answer yet.

[Ark]

He is not unstoppable. Otherwise he could not suffer those he speaks he survived.

Anyway shouldn't Elened have the same allomantic power? Or was the Lord Ruler so stronger in allomancy becouse he was doing it for a thausand years?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Phantom Monstrosity: is it sure that the Lord Ruler had hemalurgic enhancements?

Yeah it's confirmed that his atium bracers acted as hemalurgic spikes. Note that since atium is a wildcard for hemalurgy, he could use them for anything.

[Morsk he/him]

We just don't know how much stronger the Lord Ruler was than Elend. Phantom Monstrosity mentioned the possibilities, but there's so much room within them for speculation.

I meant more "functionally unstoppable" than completely unstoppable. Being able to tap infinite amounts of speed really could kill entire armies, especially at night combined with all the other sneakiness of Mistborn. The few times he was injured could have been surprise, betrayal, or extremely bad luck. Or even contempt; letting himself be injured just so he could shrug it off. In general, speed alone is almost enough to make someone invincible. Then add atium, and a world without firearms.

[happyman he/him]

I think it is very important, when thinking about this, to remember that the way the Lord Ruler managed most of his power was just like most rulers, through his beauracracy, armies, and propaganda.  He had an enormous number of people willing to work for him.  This is a force multiplier hard to avoid in any world.

 

The linch-pin of all this were his personal powers.  He could survive an enormous amount of damage (although not as much as he claimed---see propaganda), fight like nobody's business, and otherwise intimidate just about anybody one on one, or even in large groups if they are untrained (and most large groups are).  However, he wasn't nearly as invincible as he claimed.  He'd be stupid to say anything else, though, especially at the end of Mistborn.

 

Maybe to say it more clearly:  His extraordinary personal prowess and mystique made it more likely others would follow him.  This almost automatically limits the amount of brute force you can bring in without being opposed.  In practical terms, this was more than enough to keep him alive for one thousand years as a hated ruler.  An impressive feat.

[Voidus]

If Vin and Zane can kill several hundred soldiers including some specifically trained to fight mistborn, then I have no problems believing TLR could take on armies by himself, And TLR never even used duralumin that we know of, combine his insane strength pushing with Duralumin and I really think he could just rip the trace metals out of pretty much every skaa in the opposing armies blood. On the beheading/dismemberment thing, I think it's mostly assumed that he either wasn't completely beheaded or else he can heal faster than people can cut it off.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Anyway, some quotes

1) In an annotation from book 1, it is mentioned that The Lord Ruler needed all 3 magic systems in order to do what he did. I always assumed that it meant his Hemalurgy enhanced his Allomancy. Did Marsh get a double power, or is the Feruchemy-Allomancy combo enough? ( a sidebar to this question is whether or not stacking abilities is possible through Hemalurgy).

1) He used Hemalurgy to pull off his most dramatic effects. Marsh didn't need them, but it makes things much easier.

Was the Lord Ruler using feruchamy + alchemy to soothe all of the people around him? Or was he, as I like to think, flaring for so long that he became a Soother Savant?

1) He lived long enough and used his metals enough (particularly Soothing) to become nearly a savant in every area, if not a full savant.

What the Inquisitor does here at theend is very important. If you've read book two recently, you may recognize this as what Sazed did when he tapped speed at the end of that book.

The Inquisitors are gaining Feruchemicalpowers, which makes them very, very dangerous. Mixing Feruchemy and Allomancy is what made the Lord Ruler so formidable. Fortunately, it took him a long time to figure out how to mix the powers correctly, and the Inquisitors haven't had the time to practice, regardless of the force controlling them.

Now, the whole "Fortunately, it took him a long time to figure out how to mix the powers correctly, and the Inquisitors haven't had the time to practice, regardless of the force controlling them" kinda implies there's more to combining powers than just 'burn a metalmind'.

[Vortaan he/him]

Anyway, some quotesNow, the whole "Fortunately, it took him a long time to figure out how to mix the powers correctly, and the Inquisitors haven't had the time to practice, regardless of the force controlling them" kinda implies there's more to combining powers than just 'burn a metalmind'.

 

Well, in theory since burning a metalmind is almost like creating a new Allomantic metal... can you be a savant in Feruchemical storages? 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Well, in theory since burning a metalmind is almost like creating a new Allomantic metal... can you be a savant in Feruchemical storages?

Miles had some pretty screwed up biology, so he was probably a Health Savant.

But savantness seems more of a persistence thing. Not really something you'd figure out.

[Vortaan he/him]

Miles had some pretty screwed up biology, so he was probably a Health Savant.

But savantness seems more of a persistence thing. Not really something you'd figure out.

 

I'm thinking more along the lines that a thousand years of burning Feruchemical storages might make you a savant in doing so.