FeatherWriter she/her Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Silus, am I allowed to give you awesome points for that link? Because it deserves some. If not, have a cookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 And I don't know if you realized this when you wrote this, but... avoid a fate quite literally worse than death. The Prelude and the Herald's eternal punishment, anyone? Yeah, the Herald's torture was floating around in my mind when I wrote my main entry. There may well be a connection, but I didn't want to distract from my main points by bringing it up. I agree that it seems 100% in character for Odium to be responsible for the Herald's torture, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 All this talk of death made me think of this, so here goes. Could there be a shard that holds death or something like it? I really like happyman's theory, but if it is right, there has to be Death out there somewhere, which allows death to happen in the Cosmere, as there is a shard for everything that a human can do, or at least something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter she/her Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 All this talk of death made me think of this, so here goes. Could there be a shard that holds death or something like it? I really like happyman's theory, but if it is right, there has to be Death out there somewhere, which allows death to happen in the Cosmere, as there is a shard for everything that a human can do, or at least something like that. I'd say Ruin probably fills the Death shard requirement. His focus is on the end of all things so I'd assume death falls under his jurisdiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeldaDad he/him Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Could be. Though, he doesn't kill everything, just.... ruins it. He doesn't necessarily seek to destroy everything, just make it terrible for everyone involved. But hey, he's pretty dang close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter she/her Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I don't know. The way he described himself to Vin, it definitely seemed like he was leaning toward the "end of all things" sort of Ruin. And that was his request for Preservation: that one day he would get to destroy everything that they created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST he/him Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I don't know. The way he described himself to Vin, it definitely seemed like he was leaning toward the "end of all things" sort of Ruin. And that was his request for Preservation: that one day he would get to destroy everything that they created. more of a "destruction of all things", 100% entropy, that kinda thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 more of a "destruction of all things", 100% entropy, that kinda thing. From what we saw of Ruin, I'd have to say that death definitely falls under his powers. He seemed to enjoy it far too much, for one thing. (See Elend's death for an example. Ruin definitely enjoyed that.). I'd also say that, with this insight, that in the Cosmere, death is not inherently bad. Death makes way for new life, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) Hi all! Don't know how I've managed to miss these boards for the past few years since I first discovered Brandon's work, but I LOVE the topic in this thread. Sorry if I'm doing a bit of thread necromancy here, but I just wanted to throw back to the OP this tantalizing thought... ...when Kaladin spoke the words on the Tower, they were only "The Second Ideal of the Knights Radiant" "...the First Ideal of the Immortal Words. There were four others.” Sanderson, Brandon (2010). The Way of Kings (Kindle Locations 17622-17623). Tor Books. Kindle Edition. Which means that as Kaladin discovers/needs/meets the next two Ideals he will likely grow even more in power! Edited June 16, 2011 by Green Hoodie Mistborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Hi all! Don't know how I've managed to miss these boards for the past few years since I first discovered Brandon's work, but I LOVE the topic in this thread. Sorry if I'm doing a bit of thread necromancy here, but I just wanted to throw back to the OP this tantalizing thought... ...when Kaladin spoke the words on the Tower, they were only "The Second Ideal of the Knights Radiant" "...the First Ideal of the Immortal Words. There were four others.” Sanderson, Brandon (2010). The Way of Kings (Kindle Locations 17622-17623). Tor Books. Kindle Edition. Which means that as Kaladin discovers/needs/meets the next two Ideals he will likely grow even more in power! Good to have you here! It's always nice to have some new blood (Also, there is no such thing as thread necromancy here. It'd have to be a time sensitive thing for it to matter, and for the most part, theories can always use responses, no matter how late they may be!) I like this idea, too. I wonder what the other Ideals are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Good to have you here! It's always nice to have some new blood (Also, there is no such thing as thread necromancy here. It'd have to be a time sensitive thing for it to matter, and for the most part, theories can always use responses, no matter how late they may be!) I like this idea, too. I wonder what the other Ideals are? Thread necromancy might become a problem after later books in the series come out. I mean, could you imagine if someone resurrected our Hemalurgy thread at TWG? Deeply pointless. In this case, though, it's totally on topic and there's no new information available, so I'm all for discussion. Back on topic, I suspect that each ideal will increase Kaladin's powers. Given what they're up against, I sure hope so. They've got a few more levels to go before having a prayer of doing anything worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thread necromancy might become a problem after later books in the series come out. I mean, could you imagine if someone resurrected our Hemalurgy thread at TWG? Deeply pointless. In this case, though, it's totally on topic and there's no new information available, so I'm all for discussion. I agree. Actually, I think someone did try and revive that Hemalurgy thread, and it was pointless. I was more referring to the theories in General Theories, though. The cosmere stuff would age better than, say, stuff in the Mistborn or Stormlight Archive sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thanks for the welcome and I'm glad these threads are only "mostly dead" and I don't have to use the black arts on any of them. As for Kaladin and later vows I would have to say IMO that the later Ideals continue down the protective paths, though each order of Knights Radiant was said by Teft to have their own unique Ideals as the last one or two (can't remember right now), so Kaladin's will be specific to the Windrunners. I would think that as we see him grow in power with more Ideal Oaths, that he will develop the ability to build/create his own armor out of stormlight. That is what the clues in Dalinar's vision of the Knight's Radiant indicate to me. The vision where they fight, not give up the shardplate/blades. Dalinar keeps asking the question, "where did their helm go?", at least three times that I remember. To me that says they were putting stormlight out and drawing it back in to make the helms, and if the helms, why not the rest of the armor? And to me this is a factor of their growing attunement to the power of the Honor shard (yeah I guess I'm already sort of Espousing the Theory of Intent even though I haven't finished mulling it over just yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timemaster11 he/him Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Only the First Ideal is shared by all the orders. Second through Fifth Ideals are unique to each order. Also, since the list of attributes in the back of the book is stated to be a partial list, the other Ideals may not directly deal with protecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Only the First Ideal is shared by all the orders. Second through Fifth Ideals are unique to each order. My Roshar-fu is weak. Where does it say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 My Roshar-fu is weak. Where does it say that? it's on page 831 of the hardcover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 it's on page 831 of the hardcover. Fascinating! The fact that they are "Immortal Words" only serves to strengthen the Principle of Intent-Honor link to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 I was under the impression since my first readthrough that both believing in and announcing the Ideals upped the Nehal Bond with your spren. Either increasing the flow of power to you, or by making you better able to manipulate and use what you already have access to. Not exactly sure why, does Kaladin make that observation at some point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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