[SA3 spoilers] Kaladin back in Hearthstone (Yet another topic on this)

[The Honor Spren she/her]

I started a topic like this a few months ago, but I'm not in the mood for resurrecting it.

If you haven't read the Stormlight 3 Kaladin chapter yet, find it here.

Kaladin is returning to hearthstone, and what do you think will happen there?

Will he even meet his parents there?

If he does, will they be happy to see him?

Are they even alive?

And what about Laral? Some see a potential ship there.

These are my thoughts:

•His parents will still be there. My reason is this quote:

"Why don't we go then? Why haven't we gone?"

Lirin watched out the window. "I don't know. We should leave. It makes sense. We have the money. We aren't wanted here. The citylord hates us, the people mistrust us, the Stormfather himself seems inclined to knock us down." There was something in Lirin's voice. Regret?

"I tried very hard to leave once," Lirin said, more softly. "But there's a tie between a man's home and his heart. I've cared for these people, Kal. Delivered their children, set their bones, healed their scrapes. You've seen the worst of them, these last few years, but there was a time before that. A good time." He turned to Kal, clasping his hands in front of him, the carriage rattling. "They're mine son. And I'm theirs. They're my responsibility, now that Wistiow has gone. I can't leave them to Roshone."

I believe, now that both of their sons are gone, the townsfolk will feel bad for Lirin and Hesina, and open back up to them. They will stay there, even if it pains them to. And the things Lirin was saying, sounded awfully like what Kaladin went through with bridge four. Who knows? Maybe he'll have become a Windrunner? Losing both sons, seems like enough of a breaking experience. Various townsfolk as his squires?

•There will be a confrontation if some sort between Kaladin and Roshone. He has gotten over almost every other aspect of his horrible past. This could be the final step to letting go of his hate.

•Kaladin and Laral. There could be something there. I don't have enough info to throw my opinion one way or the other.

•Will Laral be a Radiant? It seems plausible to me. We're not quite sure how bad things got for her. What ever happens, I just want her to end up happy.

•Some people have been discussing the possibility of Jasnah showing up in the middle of this.

I LOVE that idea. We have no evidence that this might come to pass, other than Wit saying the nearest town was about a week away. But wouldn't that be awesome! OH MY GOSH IT WOULD BE SO COOL.

Ahem, sorry for fangirling all over the place there, I do that sometimes.

•Last, but not least: Sy'ls new dress! Isn't that exiting! I'll add a picture later in celebration.

Edit: added it

So tell me below, what do YOU think will happen? I would love to hear from all of you!

Edited August 1, 2015 by The Honor Spren

[vicsmith1412]

I love the ideas you've put together here. But if Kaladin's father turned out to be a radiant-- to me not necessarily likely but would be awesome-- I think I would peg him as a Stoneward rather than a Windrunner. They 

 

 

exemplifyed resolve, strength, and dependability. They were however also described as stubborn to a fault.

Lirin is resolved to allow the town to continue to depend on him. He stubbornly will not leave his home, no matter how bad it is to him. Both of Kaladin's parents display great strength every time they are shown. If Lirin was to bond with a spren, I believe he would be a Stoneward over any of the other orders. 

 

I also do hope Laral is still alive. She was politically maneuvered into an awful life the last time we saw her. She needs to outlive her husband and find real happiness.

[Walker]

I am pretty sure that Kaladin will find his father tending to the wounded in the manor, soon after the scene in the posted chapter.  But Kaladin will not stay in Hearthstone for long.  There is no safety there; it is a death trap.  We may get one chapter of shout-outs to familiar characters, but the story will move on.

 

I think it is clear that he is being set up for a journey bringing the survivors to Kholinar (with the possibility of opening up the Oathgate). He will pick up numerous survivors from other communities, building up a huge mass of refugees.  He will find even more refugees piling up outside the gates of Kholinar (because that is exactly where all the people in the surrounding areas will go) and take charge of them as well. He will have to stop the rioting in Kholinar and get everyone to work together for survival.

 

In order to pull all this off, he will say at least one of the leadership oaths (he has already said the protecting oaths).

[Khyrindor he/him]

WoB says that his parents are alive, but not in good shape, or something of the sort. It might have been one I asked him, I can't remember.

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

I really hope that Kaladin and Jasnah meet! Some of my favorite parts in the series is when the main characters are together!

[maxal she/her]

Personally, I do not want to read a re-play of WoK. So for me, having Kaladin's family being still persecuted by the entire village, having them still struggle to find food, having Kaladin come back and challenge Roshone: this is all repetition and I fail to see the progress.

 

What do I wish to see?

 

Kaladin's parents are being both alive and whereas Roshone is still determined to make their lives hard, the villagers won't have any of it. After seeing Lirin lose both of his sons, the villagers start to warm up to the poor family. They start to notice that, despite there obvious grief, Lirin and Hesina still care enough to cure their illness without asking for payment. Their neighbors thus start to help them, with a few small things: a loaf of bread left on the door step, a pot of milk forgotten nearby, these sort of things. Never much to attract notice, but small things which makes a difference.

 

In the mean time, Laral marries Roshone. She is not broken, she refuses to be broken, so she takes her life into her hands, determined to make best with worst. Roshone is old, so she is convinced she will outlast him. He gives her children, which she raises lovingly and if she lets their father dot on them at times, she is clear on certain things: never act entitled as you never know when you are going to lose it all. Make plans.Then make a beta plans and never, ever become a victim. Slowly, Laral gets her hand around running the small town. Roshone is getting older and tired and whereas he still openly hates Kaladin's family, he still issues threats, they sound more hollow than before. Laral eventually becomes the one calling the shots. She is shrewd. She uses her husband to get her wishes, she manipulates him into thinking he is the one doing the decision making, but he isn't. Laral is. When Roshone is not looking, she makes sure Kaladin's family do not go wanting. She never mentions the spheres.

 

When Kaladin comes back, he sees an old Roshone and a fresh faced very busy Laral with three little children in tow. She is happy to see him and tell him she has seen that his family had what they needed. She has everything within her control and the villagers obey her willingly. Under her careful management, the small town had managed to mostly survive the Everstorm, with a minimum casualties. It seems they were not in need of saving after all.

 

Kaladin is unsure of his feelings towards Laral, but she is rather clear. Perhaps she had loved him once and because of this, she took care of his family as best as she could, but she has a purpose now. Yes, Roshone is an awful husband, but he never raised a hand to her. Yes, she wished she had marry someone else, but she has found a life now. She is making their town better: she grew up here and wish to remain there.

 

Roshone is angry at seeing Kaladin being back, but there isn't much he can do. Kaladin sees his old enemy and sees.... an old agitated man. Pathetic. Kaladin finally lets go of his anger and decides revenge is not required after all. He walks away proving he is the better man and whatever power Roshone may still have over him, he loses it.

 

Nobody in Heartstone want to leave to seek safety elsewhere so Kaladin organizes their defense. He teaches all men how to defend themselves and when he leaves, Heartstone is standing strong. In the future, they will harvest refugees and the small town will grow larger and larger and larger.

 

This is what I wish to see. I wish to see people who aren't Radiants take their lives into their hands and I do not wish for Kaladin to always be the savior. He did not save Heartstone, he has no claim towards Heartstone: he left and he refused to come back. Heartstone is not his to protect anymore. Laral is doing it now.

[The Honor Spren she/her]

A lot of stuff.

I would like all this too! But what ever happens, I'm sure Brandon will make it wonderful *dreamy sigh*.

[cem he/him]

I really hope Roshone won't be much of an antagonist in SA3. I don't think I can believe him to be any kind of threat to what Kaladin is today. All he has to do is summon Syl, even as an empty bluff, and I doubt anyone in Hearthstone would have the backbone to give much grief to Kaladin. Besides, Roshone isn't Amaram. I'm pretty sure it would be within the Windrunners' mandate to take more extreme measures to protect people from him.

 

And I'm calling it now:

 

Kaladin's gonna lead an exodus to Kholinar where he'll get involved with the darkeyes uprising. He won't be able to fully support them and overthrow the lighteyes or anything because of the True Desolation. Because he seems half-hearted in his support the darkeyes are going to be pissed at him, and the lighteyes are going to hate him because they're going to be terrified of what he can do. Eventually, he and Dalinar are going to be at odds over the whole thing. Kaladin's going to believe they're not going to have a chance of surviving the Desolation with the foot soldiers wanting to kill their generals more than the enemy, while Dalinar's going to believe changing the class system while they're at war would be disastrous. After a character growth thing for both characters, they're going to come to some sort of compromise.

[Kasitor's Tanavast he/him]

I love the ideas you've put together here. But if Kaladin's father turned out to be a radiant-- to me not necessarily likely but would be awesome-- I think I would peg him as a Stoneward rather than a Windrunner. They 

Lirin is resolved to allow the town to continue to depend on him. He stubbornly will not leave his home, no matter how bad it is to him. Both of Kaladin's parents display great strength every time they are shown. If Lirin was to bond with a spren, I believe he would be a Stoneward over any of the other orders. 

 

I also do hope Laral is still alive. She was politically maneuvered into an awful life the last time we saw her. She needs to outlive her husband and find real happiness.

Another description of a stoneward is that they are amazing fighters and their surges will be for fighting (haven't seen yet). And we all know what lirin thinks of fighting. No, if Lirin is a radiant (which I highly doubt) he will have the surge of progression because in his mind you cannot kill to protect. The problem with becoming radiants is they have to have strong traits in one area, if they have a lot of traits from the different orders they just wouldn't become a radiant. If anyone is going to be a stoneward it is Rock (look at his name). He is dependable, trustworthy, stubborn and a very very good fighter (Look at his bow skills and his fight with Kaladin). If you look at Rock's cooking you can see that is not where his strength lies, his strength lies in fighting (and he enjoys it). I believe he was a 3rd son (forget which son does what) which makes him a fighter but his older brother died which make him take on the responsibilities of a second son (aka cooking). If given a little backstory and development I believe Rock could become a very strong character. It seems to me that people are drawing connections out of thin air and trying to justify so many characters becoming radiants and i have to disagree, it would be way to cliche for every somewhat important character to become a radiant. I believe that most new radiants will not come from the characters we have now (were will the squires come from). And the only reason I think ROCK will become (or is) a STONEward is because Sanderson has made so many hints towards it and the way he writes about Rock just suggests that he will become important (and who wouldn't love a giant in shard plate? with a hammer?). It would just be nice if people stop saying so and so will become a radiant, because they usually have no proof and if they do its a very flawed argument.   

[The Honor Spren she/her]

WoB says that his parents are alive, but not in good shape, or something of the sort. It might have been one I asked him, I can't remember.

T.T

1. Are Kaladin's parents still alive, and if so, are they actually mad at him?

2. Do dead parshmen turn into Chasmfieds?

3. What is the dark-glowing sphere?

4. What did Szeth do to become a Truthless, and is there anything else involved in being a Truthless that we haven't seen?"

BRANDON SANDERSON (GOODREADS)

1. Yes, they are still alive. RAFO.

2. No.

3. Major big RAFO.

4. Szeth was perceived as betraying his people in a fundamental way, and you will learn more about that when his book comes along.

Keep in mind, this is from a TWoK WoB it might have changed by now. Edited August 1, 2015 by The Honor Spren

[vicsmith1412]

Another description of a stoneward is that they are amazing fighters and their surges will be for fighting (haven't seen yet). And we all know what lirin thinks of fighting. No, if Lirin is a radiant (which I highly doubt) he will have the surge of progression because in his mind you cannot kill to protect. The problem with becoming radiants is they have to have strong traits in one area, if they have a lot of traits from the different orders they just wouldn't become a radiant. If anyone is going to be a stoneward it is Rock (look at his name). He is dependable, trustworthy, stubborn and a very very good fighter (Look at his bow skills and his fight with Kaladin). If you look at Rock's cooking you can see that is not where his strength lies, his strength lies in fighting (and he enjoys it). I believe he was a 3rd son (forget which son does what) which makes him a fighter but his older brother died which make him take on the responsibilities of a second son (aka cooking). If given a little backstory and development I believe Rock could become a very strong character. It seems to me that people are drawing connections out of thin air and trying to justify so many characters becoming radiants and i have to disagree, it would be way to cliche for every somewhat important character to become a radiant. I believe that most new radiants will not come from the characters we have now (were will the squires come from). And the only reason I think ROCK will become (or is) a STONEward is because Sanderson has made so many hints towards it and the way he writes about Rock just suggests that he will become important (and who wouldn't love a giant in shard plate? with a hammer?). It would just be nice if people stop saying so and so will become a radiant, because they usually have no proof and if they do its a very flawed argument.

 

Oh, where does it say they're fighters? I must have missed it; the wiki page isn't yet complete. If that's the case, it does make lirin being viable for their order more unlikely. But I also can't see him as a wind runner for the same reason and the fact that he displays very differently from kaladin. But note I did say I personally believe it unlikely that lirin would have bonded with a Spren. It's just fun thinking about the possibilities, and I support the theory that we will see more and more join the orders past the main ten being focused on, so brandon could take it any way he wants.

As to rock, yeah, i follow your reasoning. I have never heard of him changing from a warrior to a cook because of a change of station, but I know he doesn't fight because of birth order. He may or may not discard that hierarchy, we can't know now, but he would probably have to to become a stoneward.

 

Personally, I do not want to read a re-play of WoK. So for me, having Kaladin's family being still persecuted by the entire village, having them still struggle to find food, having Kaladin come back and challenge Roshone: this is all repetition and I fail to see the progress.

 

What do I wish to see?

 

Kaladin's parents are being both alive and whereas Roshone is still determined to make their lives hard, the villagers won't have any of it. After seeing Lirin lose both of his sons, the villagers start to warm up to the poor family. They start to notice that, despite there obvious grief, Lirin and Hesina still care enough to cure their illness without asking for payment. Their neighbors thus start to help them, with a few small things: a loaf of bread left on the door step, a pot of milk forgotten nearby, these sort of things. Never much to attract notice, but small things which makes a difference.

 

In the mean time, Laral marries Roshone. She is not broken, she refuses to be broken, so she takes her life into her hands, determined to make best with worst. Roshone is old, so she is convinced she will outlast him. He gives her children, which she raises lovingly and if she lets their father dot on them at times, she is clear on certain things: never act entitled as you never know when you are going to lose it all. Make plans.Then make a beta plans and never, ever become a victim. Slowly, Laral gets her hand around running the small town. Roshone is getting older and tired and whereas he still openly hates Kaladin's family, he still issues threats, they sound more hollow than before. Laral eventually becomes the one calling the shots. She is shrewd. She uses her husband to get her wishes, she manipulates him into thinking he is the one doing the decision making, but he isn't. Laral is. When Roshone is not looking, she makes sure Kaladin's family do not go wanting. She never mentions the spheres.

 

When Kaladin comes back, he sees an old Roshone and a fresh faced very busy Laral with three little children in tow. She is happy to see him and tell him she has seen that his family had what they needed. She has everything within her control and the villagers obey her willingly. Under her careful management, the small town had managed to mostly survive the Everstorm, with a minimum casualties. It seems they were not in need of saving after all.

 

Kaladin is unsure of his feelings towards Laral, but she is rather clear. Perhaps she had loved him once and because of this, she took care of his family as best as she could, but she has a purpose now. Yes, Roshone is an awful husband, but he never raised a hand to her. Yes, she wished she had marry someone else, but she has found a life now. She is making their town better: she grew up here and wish to remain there.

 

Roshone is angry at seeing Kaladin being back, but there isn't much he can do. Kaladin sees his old enemy and sees.... an old agitated man. Pathetic. Kaladin finally lets go of his anger and decides revenge is not required after all. He walks away proving he is the better man and whatever power Roshone may still have over him, he loses it.

 

Nobody in Heartstone want to leave to seek safety elsewhere so Kaladin organizes their defense. He teaches all men how to defend themselves and when he leaves, Heartstone is standing strong. In the future, they will harvest refugees and the small town will grow larger and larger and larger.

 

This is what I wish to see. I wish to see people who aren't Radiants take their lives into their hands and I do not wish for Kaladin to always be the savior. He did not save Heartstone, he has no claim towards Heartstone: he left and he refused to come back. Heartstone is not his to protect anymore. Laral is doing it now.

Lara's being the caretaker of hearthstone sounds wonderful. She would take to the position wonderfully. Plus, with roshone's revenge complete in that they exchanged a son for a son and kaladin never came back, I would assume he might be less harsh on Kaladin's parents. I don't know if enough time has passed for all of this to happen, though. How many years has it been since kaladin left hearthstone?

[maxal she/her]

Lara's being the caretaker of hearthstone sounds wonderful. She would take to the position wonderfully. Plus, with roshone's revenge complete in that they exchanged a son for a son and kaladin never came back, I would assume he might be less harsh on Kaladin's parents. I don't know if enough time has passed for all of this to happen, though. How many years has it been since kaladin left hearthstone?

 

I love the idea of Laral not being broken by her ordeal. So far, we have seen so many proto-Radiant who were broken by their past, I thought it would be neat to see the opposite: a young woman who refuses to give up, to be broken even if she has every reason to. 

 

I also love the idea Kaladin does not rescue Heartstone. He has always been the hero so far, saving the day at the last possible second: it would make a nice turn of events if he just got beaten to his own game: someone already saved his former town. 

 

Kaladin has been away for 6 years, enough time to have Roshone gotten old and Laral to have mature. 

 

 

Kaladin's gonna lead an exodus to Kholinar where he'll get involved with the darkeyes uprising. He won't be able to fully support them and overthrow the lighteyes or anything because of the True Desolation. Because he seems half-hearted in his support the darkeyes are going to be pissed at him, and the lighteyes are going to hate him because they're going to be terrified of what he can do. Eventually, he and Dalinar are going to be at odds over the whole thing. Kaladin's going to believe they're not going to have a chance of surviving the Desolation with the foot soldiers wanting to kill their generals more than the enemy, while Dalinar's going to believe changing the class system while they're at war would be disastrous. After a character growth thing for both characters, they're going to come to some sort of compromise.

 

I dislike this idea because I feel it is too much a repetition of the past book. Kaladin was betrayed by lighteyes and he spent a whole book trying to accept some of them may not be scumbags. If he ends up being, again, hated by lighteyes, then it makes the lesson less worthy. Also, I do think leading an exodus to Kholinar is unlikely. For one, it would take him weeks if not months to get there with a large group of people in tow and for second, why Kholinar? Hearstone is in the Sadeas princedom. He has not business leading people out of one princedom to another. Whatever we may think of Alethi politics, I am quite sure most people would disagree with him were he to try this. Most likely, they would want to remain in their current princedom.

 

I believe the cast system will change, at some point, but it will be a gradual very slow change, one step at a time.

[Windreader she/her]

I think Kaladin will have a tough time convincing people he's not a deserter. I mean, he's got a generic uniform and a sackful of spheres. Most likely he'll be unwilling to display his powers or Syl, unless he gets imprisoned. He'll probably go along quietly at first.

Like maxal, I feel that it would be awesome if someone else already saved Hearthstone. It could be Lirin (my first thought), Laral (I love this idea!), or Jasnah (would be so awesome if it happened). Whichever one it is, they will have everyone gathered at the manor, and keep everyone from panicking, and Lirin will be busy healing people, maybe even enlisting Kaladin's help without reacting to his presence, just using the extra set of experienced hands. Maybe like:

Lirin: sees Kaladin and says "Kaladin, pass me that scalpel"

Kaladin: "ok"

Lirin: finishes working on patient. "So, where have you been?"

Just a few thoughts I had.

[maxal she/her]

I think Kaladin will have a tough time convincing people he's not a deserter. I mean, he's got a generic uniform and a sackful of spheres. Most likely he'll be unwilling to display his powers or Syl, unless he gets imprisoned. He'll probably go along quietly at first.

Like maxal, I feel that it would be awesome if someone else already saved Hearthstone. It could be Lirin (my first thought), Laral (I love this idea!), or Jasnah (would be so awesome if it happened). Whichever one it is, they will have everyone gathered at the manor, and keep everyone from panicking, and Lirin will be busy healing people, maybe even enlisting Kaladin's help without reacting to his presence, just using the extra set of experienced hands. Maybe like:

Lirin: sees Kaladin and says "Kaladin, pass me that scalpel"

Kaladin: "ok"

Lirin: finishes working on patient. "So, where have you been?"

Just a few thoughts I had.

 

Oh I love your scene with Lirin and Kaladin as it is exactly how I see it. Heartstone is not doing so bad considering the circumstances. Laral has everything under control, Lirin is workin on the injured, Kaladin arrives, Kaladin is enlisted automatically to care for the injured. Or something along those lines. I love it.

 

I do not want to see Kaladin being imprisoned again. First, it would be pointless as he is a Shardbearer: he can't be imprisoned. Second, it would be horribly repetitive. We already had several chapters of Kaladin brooding in prison, please, it was enough. Let Kaladin grow by other means and one growth aspect I see for him is to stop thinking his role is to save the entire world. He is not alone in there and yes, other people are able to help and be effective. It would be a worthy lesson for him. He could also learn, from Laral, leadership is something you gain by being pro-active. He already does it, but he has not truly identified the reasons.

[kaellok he/him]

1.  I think Kaladin will have a tough time convincing people he's not a deserter. I mean, he's got a generic uniform and a sackful of spheres. Most likely he'll be unwilling to display his powers or Syl, unless he gets imprisoned. He'll probably go along quietly at first.

 

2.  Like maxal, I feel that it would be awesome if someone else already saved Hearthstone. It could be Lirin (my first thought), Laral (I love this idea!), or Jasnah (would be so awesome if it happened). Whichever one it is, they will have everyone gathered at the manor, and keep everyone from panicking, and Lirin will be busy healing people, maybe even enlisting Kaladin's help without reacting to his presence, just using the extra set of experienced hands. Maybe like:

3.  Lirin: sees Kaladin and says "Kaladin, pass me that scalpel"

Kaladin: "ok"

Lirin: finishes working on patient. "So, where have you been?"

Just a few thoughts I had.

I numbered some of your text, so I could respond to it easier!

 

1.  Ugggghh.. NO. Kaladin shouldn't hide who/what he is to that extent.  He is so close to functionally immortal at this point, so long as he has Stormlight.  I fear you may be right, but it will be stupid of Kaladin.  People think he's a deserter?  Pull out a Shardblade and be all, "SURPRISE!"  Done.  That's all he needs to do to what, be on same rank as Roshone?  Where he is then legally protected to tell everyone to go stuff themselves.  Given that he'll probably be arriving in a time of great panic, pretending to be anything less than a Shardbearer come to help is a waste of precious time that they quite frankly do not have. 

 

2.  Yup!  Something to subvert the typical hero's journey/path tropes that Kaladin is following would be great, and having that be someone else saved Hearthstone is the perfect point for it to happen.  So much of Kaladin's baggage is tied up with events that happened there, that he fled from, that him coming back in the nick of time to save everything is just too neat.  Making him face up to other people being capable of doing good/useful things would be nice, especially if it's a lighteyes.

 

3.  Like maxal, I think your little proto-scene here is amazing, for its poignancy and simplicity.  On the other hand, I think Kaladin's parents not being there at all--Kharbranth is my personal choice for so many, many reasons.

[maxal she/her]

I numbered some of your text, so I could respond to it easier!

 

1.  Ugggghh.. NO. Kaladin shouldn't hide who/what he is to that extent.  He is so close to functionally immortal at this point, so long as he has Stormlight.  I fear you may be right, but it will be stupid of Kaladin.  People think he's a deserter?  Pull out a Shardblade and be all, "SURPRISE!"  Done.  That's all he needs to do to what, be on same rank as Roshone?  Where he is then legally protected to tell everyone to go stuff themselves.  Given that he'll probably be arriving in a time of great panic, pretending to be anything less than a Shardbearer come to help is a waste of precious time that they quite frankly do not have. 

 

I agree. A large chunk of WoR dealt with Kaladin/Shallan not wanting to share their identity. In the case of Kaladin, it was nearly sickening as he carried the irrational fear Dalinar would steal his Radianhod from him as if such thing was possible. It took everything for him to finally come out in the open, so for him to go back to hide himself in book 3 would be horribly repetitive. He dealt with this already: it feels wrong for him to take a step back.

 

What are the things Kaladin still needs to deal with? Here are a few, in my opinion:

 

1) He needs to accept he can't protect everyone and that despite his best effort, there will be causalities. These should not be seen as failure on his part as long as he did all he could. In other words, accept he is not all powerful.

2) He needs to deflate his ego by some measure: he won't always be the hero and his task in life is not to be everyone's hero. Being a Radiant implies team work where each have capacities: he needs to learn that and to stop relying solely on himself for everything.

3) He needs to acknowledge there are other capable people out there but himself and that everyone does not need to be protected.

4) He needs to keep on realizing lighteyes can be worthy people and darkeyes can be as bad as lighteyes.

 

Based on these, him hiding or saving the say *again* would not bring him forward nor would failing at trying to save Heartstone and it would only exacerbates number 1. I feel the best way for him to progress is to be redundant at Heartstone, to find he does not get to the hero over there as someone already rose to the occasion.

 

For number 1 and number 4, I see him learning these lessons in Kholinar. He can't protect everyone and he can't keep on blaming himself for death that are outside his hands (stop blaming yourself for your squad, it is not your fault and please do not become Rand Al'Thor). Also, he needs to see the dark side of darkeyes which may happen if the rebellion is successful and the result is less than harmonious. The royal family is over-thrown: Kaladin fights with his allegiance and natural sympathy towards the darkeyes and his allegiance towards Dalinar. In the end, he watches the darkeyes take control and do...... a terrible job out of it. They are unprepared, untrained, unschooled and they believe they would do better simply because they felt they had virtue on their side, but ruling is more complicated than this. They soon get entangled with it all and the result is the rise of a new group of privileged individuals... Nothing changes for the regular people, except life gets worst. The city is in chaos and if they thought the queen was doing a poor job, they soon find their new rulers are no better.

 

In the end many people end up rooting for the Kholins to come back. The Oathgate re-works and Dalinar comes back to settle everything back into order. However, in the aftermath of the rebellion, he opens up more positions for darkeyes, just as he did for Kaladin. He does a through-out cleaning of the place. 

 

The queen dies in the rebellion. Her young son is shipped to Navani to care for.

 

 

 

2.  Yup!  Something to subvert the typical hero's journey/path tropes that Kaladin is following would be great, and having that be someone else saved Hearthstone is the perfect point for it to happen.  So much of Kaladin's baggage is tied up with events that happened there, that he fled from, that him coming back in the nick of time to save everything is just too neat.  Making him face up to other people being capable of doing good/useful things would be nice, especially if it's a lighteyes.

 

Yep. It fits with my number 2, 3 and 4. Kaladin's story arc is getting too predictable: big climax, Kaladin saves the day. Let someone else take the spotlight for once, let Kaladin not be the hero.

[Quiver he/him]

I agree. A large chunk of WoR dealt with Kaladin/Shallan not wanting to share their identity. In the case of Kaladin, it was nearly sickening as he carried the irrational fear Dalinar would steal his Radianhod from him as if such thing was possible. It took everything for him to finally come out in the open, so for him to go back to hide himself in book 3 would be horribly repetitive. He dealt with this already: it feels wrong for him to take a step back.

 

What are the things Kaladin still needs to deal with? Here are a few, in my opinion:

 

1) He needs to accept he can't protect everyone and that despite his best effort, there will be causalities. These should not be seen as failure on his part as long as he did all he could. In other words, accept he is not all powerful.

2) He needs to deflate his ego by some measure: he won't always be the hero and his task in life is not to be everyone's hero. Being a Radiant implies team work where each have capacities: he needs to learn that and to stop relying solely on himself for everything.

3) He needs to acknowledge there are other capable people out there but himself and that everyone does not need to be protected.

4) He needs to keep on realizing lighteyes can be worthy people and darkeyes can be as bad as lighteyes.

 

Based on these, him hiding or saving the say *again* would not bring him forward nor would failing at trying to save Heartstone and it would only exacerbates number 1. I feel the best way for him to progress is to be redundant at Heartstone, to find he does not get to the hero over there as someone already rose to the occasion.

 

For number 1 and number 4, I see him learning these lessons in Kholinar. He can't protect everyone and he can't keep on blaming himself for death that are outside his hands (stop blaming yourself for your squad, it is not your fault and please do not become Rand Al'Thor). Also, he needs to see the dark side of darkeyes which may happen if the rebellion is successful and the result is less than harmonious. The royal family is over-thrown: Kaladin fights with his allegiance and natural sympathy towards the darkeyes and his allegiance towards Dalinar. In the end, he watches the darkeyes take control and do...... a terrible job out of it. They are unprepared, untrained, unschooled and they believe they would do better simply because they felt they had virtue on their side, but ruling is more complicated than this. They soon get entangled with it all and the result is the rise of a new group of privileged individuals... Nothing changes for the regular people, except life gets worst. The city is in chaos and if they thought the queen was doing a poor job, they soon find their new rulers are no better.

 

In the end many people end up rooting for the Kholins to come back. The Oathgate re-works and Dalinar comes back to settle everything back into order. However, in the aftermath of the rebellion, he opens up more positions for darkeyes, just as he did for Kaladin. He does a through-out cleaning of the place. 

 

The queen dies in the rebellion. Her young son is shipped to Navani to care for.

 

 

 

Yep. It fits with my number 2, 3 and 4. Kaladin's story arc is getting too predictable: big climax, Kaladin saves the day. Let someone else take the spotlight for once, let Kaladin not be the hero.

Just want to say: I love your ideas for SA3.

[maxal she/her]

Just want to say: I love your ideas for SA3.

 

Thanks  I write so many speculations for SA3, I figured out I am bond to be right, statistically speaking, on some of them... 

 

I also think Brandon is not the kind of author to dwindle endlessly on redundant plot points. He won't make Kaladin pass through the same ordeals, so it is likely his story will take a new turn. Besides, Brandon like to bring about the unexpected and to subvert tropes... so...

[Kasitor's Tanavast he/him]

I accidentally posted the same post several times, I apologize my internet was being stupid. does anyone know I can delete them?

[maxal she/her]

I accidentally posted the same post several times, I apologize my internet was being stupid. does anyone know I can delete them?

 

You can't delete posts: you can only update them. Generally, what most posters do when in such circumstances is edit the post and state they have made a double post. Admin or mods passing by afterwards will be able to delete it, but where have you made double posts?

[Kasitor's Tanavast he/him]

You can't delete posts: you can only update them. Generally, what most posters do when in such circumstances is edit the post and state they have made a double post. Admin or mods passing by afterwards will be able to delete it, but where have you made double posts?

I figured it out, I just hid them

[Kasitor's Tanavast he/him]

 

Oh, where does it say they're fighters? I must have missed it; the wiki page isn't yet complete. If that's the case, it does make lirin being viable for their order more unlikely. But I also can't see him as a wind runner for the same reason and the fact that he displays very differently from kaladin. But note I did say I personally believe it unlikely that lirin would have bonded with a Spren. It's just fun thinking about the possibilities, and I support the theory that we will see more and more join the orders past the main ten being focused on, so brandon could take it any way he wants.

As to rock, yeah, i follow your reasoning. I have never heard of him changing from a warrior to a cook because of a change of station, but I know he doesn't fight because of birth order. He may or may not discard that hierarchy, we can't know now, but he would probably have to to become a stoneward.

 

 

I actually never thought that stonewards wouldn't be fighters. interesting point. I view them as fighters because they were said to be more than any other order match in nature and temperament to their Herald, and there herald is Talenal stone sinew Herald of WAR. I just assumed that they were also alike in that they fought (why would the leader of the stonewards do something completely different from his order?). The surges that the herald of war (they had surges right? or just the radiants?) used are definitely war oriented (or can be) seeing as he is the herald of war. I also feel that each of the radiant orders has a role to fill, and the best role that I can see for the stonewards is Bodyguard/workhorse (because they are very reliable, loyal and trustworthy). Based on this I still believe that stonewards would be oriented around combat, but it does make sense that they all don't fight. You also said that you support the theory of more than 10 radiants being focused on. How is this a theory, its fact. There were definitely more than 10 radiants (not heralds) in every other period of history, it states several times that there were lots of radiants (day of recreance) so why would there only be ten now? Plus, I'm hoping sanderson will kill some radiants too, so having more than 1 radiant (as backups) for each order makes sense. I'm a little lost with this "theory" and it would be nice if someone could explain the other theory (only 10 radiants). And in comment about Rock changing station, I just assumed (yes, another assumption) that if your older brother died you took on their station. The idea behind this predestined role for sons is that the most important roles needed to be filled, so if one of the older brothers die, their role needs to be filled and the younger sons move up on the list (theory). If that were the case, Rock could've grown up a 3rd son learning how to be a warrior and then BAM one of his older brothers die forcing him to be a cook. And that would explain why Rock is an expert with the bow, how he nearly kills surge binder kaladin with a tree and why he seems a little reluctant with his cooking. If rock can step over the cultural boundary of keeping his role (maybe if he doesn't) and not fighting he could become a pretty amazing stoneward. We'll see what happens but lets just say I'm very hopeful 

[The Honor Spren she/her]

I appreciate all the discussion here but. . . this isn't a proto-radiant topic. This is a Kaladin coming home topic. If you could keep on topic, that would be awesome. Thankyou!

[Kasitor's Tanavast he/him]

I do tend to get off topic (generally towards topics I like). sorry about that I will try to stay on topic in the future.   

btw is there a way to link a post to another topic, in order to not disturb people on one topic?

does copy past url work or is there a better way?

Edited August 3, 2015 by Kasitor's Tanavast

[mirahound she/her]

Honestly, I think Kaladin is going to find Roshone with no power left after the Everstorm, because everyone is too busy trying to survive. I think he'll take one look at him, say, "Nope, you're not worth my time," and move on with his life. Maybe if he'd come home earlier he would have fought with Roshone, but the with everything that's happened since, I think he'll have realized there are more important things to worry about.

 

I think he'll expect Lirin and Hesina to be upset with him, but as soon as they see him they'll ask why he didn't come home sooner. Maybe it's cheesy, but I kind of imagine Lirin actually crying to see one of his sons come home. (Also, I kinda doubt it will happen, but my dream is to see what would happen if Lirin and Hesina ever met Dadlinar).

 

As for Laral... I think Kaladin will put his feelings for her to rest. I think at this point she's one of the biggest "what-ifs" he hasn't dealt with yet, and a big part of letting go of the pain in his past will be letting her go as well. I do think he'll help her in whatever way she needs, but in the end, they'll most likely part as fond friends.

 

And maybe it's not completely within the "Hearthstone" plotline, but I love the idea of Kaladin getting caught up in the rioting in Kholinar... but this time on the side of the lighteyes!