Adolin's Shardblade? Spoilers.

[mirahound she/her]

So, I've seen a lot of discussion about whether or not Adolin would end up being a Radiant. At first I thought that would be just a little too cliche, especially with the rest of his family, but then I started thinking about the Shardblade he already has, and I started wondering... would it be possible for Adolin to actually bring back the spren in his Shardblade? He already shows it an incredible amount of respect, and thinks of it to some degree as an actual, sentient being (talking to it before duels, refusing to give it a new name, etc). I know Kaladin and Syl have already talked about whether or not you could bring back a "dead" spren, but as far as I could tell, nothing conclusive was decided.

 

My brother is convinced I'm wrong, but as I'm currently borrowing his copies of the books he can't disprove me.  Thoughts?

[maxal she/her]

Ah. As the self-proclaimed expert on any theories pertaining Adolin (I feel humble today)       allow me to answer.

 

Adolin will revive his dead-Blade is a fans-favorite theory, so you are far from being the only person to ever think about it. It has been abundantly discussed in various threads ever since the release of WoR.

 

Of course, the initial arguments in favor of him doing so are pretty much what you summarized: he talks to his Blade, he pours his secret fears into it, thoughts he does not openly share with other people, he reveres it and more importantly he refuses to name his Blade out of respect for what it once been. He does not know the truth, but his instincts brought him so close to the truth, it is nearly sad. 

 

That being said, people have asked questions to Brandon in that regards... Would it be possible to revive a dead-Blade, despite what Pattern and Syl may think? The answers have been... careful. Brandon first started by saying it would be nearly impossible as the poor spren had the equivalent of their hard-drive being pulled out and to revive them, one would need to replace it. He then stated it could be possible, but extremely hard. Later on, he confirmed the original knight would be needed to revive a dead-Blade... in most cases. Finally, he did state Adolin could do it, providing he says the oath and does... something more.

 

So all in all, we gathered it is not completely impossible, very difficult, but feasible providing the right elements are put into place. In all his careful answering, Brandon has always left the door open for such a plot to happen. However, my personal understanding is whereas it is not impossible, it would be a rather exceptional event not to be reproduced: I thus do not back down any theories involving massive dead-Blade revival.

 

Other interesting facts about Adolin's Blade, it is an Edgedancer, so reviving it would place him within this order, a fact strongly disputed by many forum members. Prior to receiving this information, most forumers were placing him within the Dustbringer (whereas I once supported this theory, I now think it was a very bad fit: we were reading him so strong in the beginning). Upon finding out the beloved Blade revival theory would put in within the Edgedancer, I feel many have left the wagon as despite my strongest effort, convincing others Adolin is a very good fit for this order have not yielded much result 

 

Adolin becoming a Radiant would never be a cliche... The handsome, rich boy never gets to have super-powers and never ends well: he is always portrayed as a villain or an idiot. As far as cliches go, the fall from grace from the Prince who had it all, watching him hit rock bottom, disgraced and shunned by those he loves, but still managing to find within him the strength to care for a dead-Blade everyone has forgotten about while self-sacrificing himself for those he cares for, thus settling his fate as a proto-Edgedancer certainly is not one. I for one would love to read it, perhaps not in these exact words, but something along those lines. There are far greater cliches in SA than Adolin pulling it of to make it to Radiant, despite all adversity, despite the fact no live spren wanted him to begin with.

 

So whatever questions you may have, shoot. It's always my pleasure as this is, by far, my favorite topic of discussion.

 

Welcome to the forum. 

[mirahound she/her]

Ah, there's what I was missing: WoB. Thanks muchly! I dunno, there's just so much about this theory that appeals to me. I love the idea that, if this were to happen, it would be a total reverse of how the rest of the Knights Radiant came about. Instead of a broken human being noticed by a spren, it would be a broken spren being healed by a fairly intact human (assuming the fall-out of the events at the end of WoR doesn't do its fair share of damage). 

 

And thanks for the warm welcome, it's good to be here!

[maxal she/her]

Ah, there's what I was missing: WoB. Thanks muchly! I dunno, there's just so much about this theory that appeals to me. I love the idea that, if this were to happen, it would be a total reverse of how the rest of the Knights Radiant came about. Instead of a broken human being noticed by a spren, it would be a broken spren being healed by a fairly intact human (assuming the fall-out of the events at the end of WoR doesn't do its fair share of damage). 

 

And thanks for the warm welcome, it's good to be here!

 

Well, it is assumed Adolin would still need to harbor the required crack in his soul for the Nahel bond to installed itself. It is strongly assumed he will not walk unscathed from his ordeal at the end of WoR, providing he even walks out of it at all. However, I love the idea he would be, more or less, the only one to actively chose his spren. We are completely unsure as to what the mechanism may be, but it seems likely it would demand strong dedication to an impossible task, a feat Alethkar arguably most stubborn and tenacious son could performed simply because he is the only one able to care that much for an... inanimate object.

 

All in all, he'd end up being the one choosing this spren, freeing it and bonding it as opposed to everyone else whom were chosen prior to saying any oath. Adolin's Blade did not chose him, but my wild hope is it sees something in him and will respond positively to his effort, providing he keeps at it.

 

I agree it would make his journey, special, and certainly not cliche at all 

[Tortellini]

I agree that him reviving the blade is heavily hinted at/being prepared. Furthermore, revival/healing works well with being an Edgedancer.

 

However, my personal wish for Adolin's ark is very different: He's the best fighter out there in the beginning. I want him to be the guy that everyone sort of assumes makes it to Radiant somehow, but he never does. He slowly turns from the badass to a liability being the only "old-fashioned" shardbearer in a growing pool of Radiants, and he grows through struggling with this loss of responsibility and meaning - he defines himself through his ability to help and fight, and that gets slowly taken away from him. Even his "weak" brother slowly overshadows him. He ends up finding peace with that and seeks new ways of contributing meaning, even while limited fighting-wise. That would be a great ark to follow. Optional path of "getting tempted to become a Voidbinder but turns away from evil in the end" possible, but I'd rather not go that cliché...

[maxal she/her]

I agree that him reviving the blade is heavily hinted at/being prepared. Furthermore, revival/healing works well with being an Edgedancer.

 

However, my personal wish for Adolin's ark is very different: He's the best fighter out there in the beginning. I want him to be the guy that everyone sort of assumes makes it to Radiant somehow, but he never does. He slowly turns from the badass to a liability being the only "old-fashioned" shardbearer in a growing pool of Radiants, and he grows through struggling with this loss of responsibility and meaning - he defines himself through his ability to help and fight, and that gets slowly taken away from him. Even his "weak" brother slowly overshadows him. He ends up finding peace with that and seeks new ways of contributing meaning, even while limited fighting-wise. That would be a great ark to follow. Optional path of "getting tempted to become a Voidbinder but turns away from evil in the end" possible, but I'd rather not go that cliché...

 

Yeah, I agree Adolin going to the evil side would indeed be a cliche... since we are on the topic of such things. It is so much a cliche it remains, to this date, one of the preferred path for him to follow in multiple threads.

 

I love your idea and I do not think it is excluding the Blade revival story plot as reviving a dead-Blade is very hard if not nearly impossible. No way Adolin is going to pull it of quickly, so it may take him a while to get and in the mean time, he'll have plenty of time to feel depreciated and obsolete. Especially since my favorite arc is him losing his Shards and being forced to fight with regular weapons... something he has not done before. 

[king of nowhere]

i think it would be a great story arc, but the fact that most of the audience is already half-expecting it sort of spoils it.

THat's the downside with having a forum with an active fan community and giving them years between one book and another.

[natc]

i think it would be a great story arc, but the fact that most of the audience is already half-expecting it sort of spoils it.

THat's the downside with having a forum with an active fan community and giving them years between one book and another.

Journey before Destination.

We expect it. Seeing how it happens is what would make it epic.

[The Honor Spren she/her]

I like this thread. I have no idea what will happen to Adolin at all. But I love the way you have all described these Headcannons. And mirahound is new and has no upvotes, so there will be upvotes.

[maxal she/her]

i think it would be a great story arc, but the fact that most of the audience is already half-expecting it sort of spoils it.

THat's the downside with having a forum with an active fan community and giving them years between one book and another.

 

I don't know about that... Most of the audience do it dwell on the 17th shard and even among those who do, the "Adolin will revive his Blade" does not make unanimity. It is a popular theory, but it also has its hordes of detractors. There is still a significant part of the fandom that believes Adolin will either die or become evil...

 

I would not it is entirely too predictable... especially since Adolin, as a character, has always been everything but predictable... The reason there are so many talks about him is due to the fact we just do not know where he is going as a character. We have a good idea where everyone else is going, but Adolin? The cards are heavily mixed so I disagree it would be too predictable.

 

 

Journey before Destination.

We expect it. Seeing how it happens is what would make it epic.

 

YES. This. I absolutely agree. Adolin reviving his Blade is exactly the kind of story that puts the E into EPIC. One of the reason I so cherish it is the fact it would give Adolin his own special story arc. Since he currently isn't one of the 10 focus characters, the plot line would give him his own little spotlight and would help the character grow. 

 

We need Adolin into SA, so long live this theory 

[mirahound she/her]

Ah. As the self-proclaimed expert on any theories pertaining Adolin (I feel humble today)       allow me to answer.

 

Adolin will revive his dead-Blade is a fans-favorite theory, so you are far from being the only person to ever think about it. It has been abundantly discussed in various threads ever since the release of WoR.

 

Of course, the initial arguments in favor of him doing so are pretty much what you summarized: he talks to his Blade, he pours his secret fears into it, thoughts he does not openly share with other people, he reveres it and more importantly he refuses to name his Blade out of respect for what it once been. He does not know the truth, but his instincts brought him so close to the truth, it is nearly sad. 

 

That being said, people have asked questions to Brandon in that regards... Would it be possible to revive a dead-Blade, despite what Pattern and Syl may think? The answers have been... careful. Brandon first started by saying it would be nearly impossible as the poor spren had the equivalent of their hard-drive being pulled out and to revive them, one would need to replace it. He then stated it could be possible, but extremely hard. Later on, he confirmed the original knight would be needed to revive a dead-Blade... in most cases. Finally, he did state Adolin could do it, providing he says the oath and does... something more.

 

So all in all, we gathered it is not completely impossible, very difficult, but feasible providing the right elements are put into place. In all his careful answering, Brandon has always left the door open for such a plot to happen. However, my personal understanding is whereas it is not impossible, it would be a rather exceptional event not to be reproduced: I thus do not back down any theories involving massive dead-Blade revival.

 

Other interesting facts about Adolin's Blade, it is an Edgedancer, so reviving it would place him within this order, a fact strongly disputed by many forum members. Prior to receiving this information, most forumers were placing him within the Dustbringer (whereas I once supported this theory, I now think it was a very bad fit: we were reading him so strong in the beginning). Upon finding out the beloved Blade revival theory would put in within the Edgedancer, I feel many have left the wagon as despite my strongest effort, convincing others Adolin is a very good fit for this order have not yielded much result 

 

Adolin becoming a Radiant would never be a cliche... The handsome, rich boy never gets to have super-powers and never ends well: he is always portrayed as a villain or an idiot. As far as cliches go, the fall from grace from the Prince who had it all, watching him hit rock bottom, disgraced and shunned by those he loves, but still managing to find within him the strength to care for a dead-Blade everyone has forgotten about while self-sacrificing himself for those he cares for, thus settling his fate as a proto-Edgedancer certainly is not one. I for one would love to read it, perhaps not in these exact words, but something along those lines. There are far greater cliches in SA than Adolin pulling it of to make it to Radiant, despite all adversity, despite the fact no live spren wanted him to begin with.

 

So whatever questions you may have, shoot. It's always my pleasure as this is, by far, my favorite topic of discussion.

 

Welcome to the forum. 

And actually, after taking a closer look at typical Edgedancers, Adolin seems like the perfect fit, very refined and elegant (think looking through a fashion magazine during the highstorm). In addition, it may be different in Alethkar, but here fencing (or modern dueling) is considered the ultimate gentleman's sport. Plus, it would just be fun to see Adolin and Lift working together at some point. 

[maxal she/her]

And actually, after taking a closer look at typical Edgedancers, Adolin seems like the perfect fit, very refined and elegant (think looking through a fashion magazine during the highstorm). In addition, it may be different in Alethkar, but here fencing (or modern dueling) is considered the ultimate gentleman's sport. Plus, it would just be fun to see Adolin and Lift working together at some point. 

 

I had the wild hope for Adolin and Lift to develop a big brother/young sister bond (with Lift being half in love with him) as he would end up the one teaching her how to fight... This is far-fetched though as Lift presumably won't join he main crew until the next half of stormlight, but I would like to see it.

 

Most people agree Adolin is refined and elegant, but many people have a harder time picturing him as caring/loving enough to be an Edgedancer. I tend to disagree as I feel he is the most caring/loving character we have so far (bar Lift) and has shown he has potential in that regards. He cares a lot more than he should providing his social standing: his level of caring makes me think of Kaladin's level of protectiveness prior to Syl. Adolin has no spren and guidance, so he quite far away in his potential journey. All comparison to known proto-Radiants thus turn unfavorably towards him. All characters are at various level on the yellow brick road while Adolin is still stuck in the tornado, not yet knowing where he'll land, if he'll land at all.

[gbazz4 he/him]

And actually, after taking a closer look at typical Edgedancers, Adolin seems like the perfect fit, very refined and elegant (think looking through a fashion magazine during the highstorm). In addition, it may be different in Alethkar, but here fencing (or modern dueling) is considered the ultimate gentleman's sport. Plus, it would just be fun to see Adolin and Lift working together at some point. 

The more i think about it Edgedancer seems like a good fit for Adolin if he becomes a KR. We know he is amazing as a duelist and Edgedancers were great on the battlefield. They are described as so:

 

"They were once a glorious order,' Darkness said ... . 'Where you blunder, they were elegant things of beauty. They could ride the thinnest rope at speed, dance across rooftops, move through a battlefield like a ribbon on the wind. It is unfortunate they were always so concerned with small-minded things, while ignoring those of greater import." - Darkness tells Lift in the Interlude 9

 

"When Simol was informed of the arrival of the Edgedancers, a concealed consternation and terror, as is common in such cases, fell upon him; although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants." WOR, Chapter 20, Page 12

 

Can you imagine Adolin sliding around the battlefield with abrasion when he is already a great fighter with a Shardblade? I also see that he really cares for his family, the motivation for why he does what he does at the end of WOR. So i can see him being caring and wanting to heal people with Progression.

 

Also i know their second ideal is "I will remember those who have been forgotten." I feel like i have a recollection that somewhere in either WOK or WOR it is mentioned that Adolin remembers his mother and her loss was quite painful. I may not be remembering that right so feel free to correct me. But if my memory is correct then wouldn't that fit the ideal of the Edgedancers as the person who has forgotten Adolin's mother is Dalinar but Adolin remembers her? Seems like that could be a nice tie into being an Edgedancer if my memory is serving me well.

[maxal she/her]

 

Also i know their second ideal is "I will remember those who have been forgotten." I feel like i have a recollection that somewhere in either WOK or WOR it is mentioned that Adolin remembers his mother and her loss was quite painful. I may not be remembering that right so feel free to correct me. But if my memory is correct then wouldn't that fit the ideal of the Edgedancers as the person who has forgotten Adolin's mother is Dalinar but Adolin remembers her? Seems like that could be a nice tie into being an Edgedancer if my memory is serving me well.

 

The fact he carries his dead mother necklace on him as a good luck charm is an argument supporters of this theory often bring up. Whereas you could argue his apparent care for his mother is nothing any good son would not do: it does highlight an important aspect of Adolin's personality. He attaches a strong importance on family ties and he never lets go. His insistence to keep on remembering a mother his father has forgotten all about is a lovely parallel. It also is obvious he misses having a mother, a fact enhanced by his desire to have Navani baby him. So it is not simply the fact he cares for his mother, it is the fact he transposes this care into concrete actions: a decade later. He carries the necklace, he is distressed when he lost it, he thinks about missing her, he approves of Navani being there before his duels as she reminds him of her.... except his mother did not live long enough to see him duel. She was never there in the preparing room, fretting over him, but he wished she were. At 23 years old. There is care here, but much like Kaladin's early protectiveness, it needs to be expanded.

 

Another nice one about caring is his entire behavior with his Blade.... Everybody else sees the Blades as nothing more than a tool: Dalinar never saw Oathbringer as anything more than a good trusted comfortable hammer. Adolin however, feels its power, feels its life and agrees the Blade is much bigger than him. He behaves much like a wild-eyed child next to it: he feels he needs to respect it and more importantly, his instincts tell him he showed not rename it. It had a name, once. If only he could remember it.. He can't, but he keeps trying, out of respect. So when everyone else living forgotten all about the truth behind Shardblades, Adolin has conversation with his claiming he respects what it once was. So he remembers or tries very, very, very hard to remember something he does not comprehend.

 

Other interesting ones about Adolin and caring... He is seen to care, apart from his family, for a lowly prostitute, his dead soldiers, darkeyes children he laughs with, grumpy Kaladin his distrusts but wants to be fair with, animals he hates having to butcher, even the Parshendi singers he couldn't stomach to butcher at the end...

 

Of course, one could argue these are not strong enough traits...

 

Any nice person would have rescued the prostitute, but no. Being nice does not equal being pro-active: you often need to be more than nice and Adolin is a prince. Princes usually do not look down and rarely stops in their tracks to help a human being most people sees as nothing more than an animal. 

 

Any decent general would care for his dead soldiers. True enough, but so few are seen doing so in Stormlight Archive. Dalinar sure does not seem to care as much as his son about it.

 

Anyone nice would have tried to help Kaladin, but huge no, especially not a prince whom is supposed to be spoiled. He sat in prison for weeks in an open protest towards a king's order. Once it was over, he gave him Shards. Shards to a darkeye. Now someone really have to ask Brandon if Adolin's gesture was ever duplicate in the history of Alethkar as so very few darkeyes ever earned themselves Shards.... His actions have to have been a rare occurrence. For someone everyone has always dismissed for being an insignificant fopish brat, he sure does not act the part. Not everyone would have done it, not everyone would have cared enough about Kaladin's faith to have dare tried anything so daring.

 

Any decent person would despised hunting. Perhaps, but not in the Alethi world. Lighteyes hunt and they love it while Adolin openly hates it. I thinks it is butchery as the beast stands no chance. He makes it clear he does not enjoy killing for the shake of killing. Whereas it does not particularly make him stand out, it just adds to all of these little different things Adolin does.

 

Any normal person would have been horrified at having to slaughter the Parshendi and it was a one time deal for Adolin. How many has he killed before, how any has he killed before he stopped himself sick? Many probably, but this was the first fight he did without the blinding of the Thrill and his reaction was telling: he can't kill as easily without it. In fact, it disturbs him to the point where he drops his Blade. Dalinar did not drop Oathbringer when facing the same ordeal nor did he stop fighting. Did he cared for these Parshendis? Hard to tell, but he cared about his actions and it disgusted him.

 

All in all, whereas all of these little events could have been accomplished by someone else, to have them performed by the same person is significant, especially coming from the one person who should not have cared.... It may not as endearing as Lift saving Gawx (we could also argue Adolin was never put to this particular challenge), but first Lift is a level 2 Radiant with spren guidance whereas Adolin is not even a proto-Radiant and sure has no guidance.

[Alfa he/him]

Adolin has even more traits he shares with Lift; the playful, somehow gambling nature and he is even superstitious (he is the only superstitious brighteye character currently known!). Probably, these are traits often shared by edgedancers.

[maxal she/her]

Adolin has even more traits he shares with Lift; the playful, somehow gambling nature and he is even superstitious (he is the only superstitious brighteye character currently known!). Probably, these are traits often shared by edgedancers.

 

Is Lift superstitious? I am unsure if Adolin being superstitious has anything to do with potential Radiancy... I have always read this particular trait of his as a lack of self-confidence. He knows he is good (so we are not talking about a lack of self-esteem as Renarin), but he keeps being afraid he won't measured up. As long as he follows the exact same pattern that allowed him to win the first time around, he is able to contain his fears and to quell his nervousness to a minimum. However, the day he misses a step, he gets stressed out thinking it must mean something because he has a hard time being confident enough to move past it. 

 

It's quite endearing his mother's necklace is part of his superstitious ritual... Adolin needs to hang on to his superstition to keep his mind into the right mindset and Renarin understands Adolin needs it, emotionally speaking.

 

As for being playful and a tad gambling, yeah that's Adolin. He is willing to take calculated risks and he likes to fool around.

[Alfa he/him]

 

Is Lift superstitious?

Here, quoted from coppermind about Lift:
 

 

 

 Lift always kept a diamond mark in her pocket, which she considered lucky.

 

 

...although she was thirteen years old, she claimed to be ten because she believed that any number that she could not count to on her fingers was unlucky. 

 

This looks really superstitious to me

[maxal she/her]

 

 

 

Here, quoted from coppermind about Lift:

 

 

This looks really superstitious to me

 

 

Oh thanks! I had forgotten about those. Good catch  Very good catch indeed. Keeping a lucky diamond mark in her pocket is very similar to keeping a lucky necklace once belonging to a beloved mother.... Wow. I love this. It fuels my argumentation some more as the main counter-argument I usually encounter are unfavorable comparison to Lift...

 

AND it would give credence to Darkness comments on Edgedancer being focused on small things... Insisting on having a favorite necklace, diamond mark and putting a tantrum if it goes missing in the scope of a decisive battle would appear as such to overly ordered Skybreakers.

Edited August 6, 2015 by maxal

[natc]

Both their superstitions are also pretty nonsensical.

I mean, does chicken for breakfast even help? Talking to the sword might, and Harmony knows dead people can do really major things in the cosmere while dead, but chicken?

[Alfa he/him]

Probably still  tastier than chull-ragout.

[maxal she/her]

Both their superstitions are also pretty nonsensical.

I mean, does chicken for breakfast even help? Talking to the sword might, and Harmony knows dead people can do really major things in the cosmere while dead, but chicken?

 

I wonder if Brandon is ever going to explain to us where the ritual comes from... Surely it has an origin.. Ah if only we could get ONE flashback chapter from Adolin's POV, namely the one where he won his Blade, surely we would find out how it all started.

 

And the Blade... How did he start talking to it? Did he talked to his side sword before? When he won the Blade, what did he fight with? Was someone in his family kind enough to lend him one of their Blades? He can't have talked to it so the ritual must come form after that fight which is believed to be one of his first ones...

 

I SO want to know 

[gbazz4 he/him]

Both their superstitions are also pretty nonsensical.

I mean, does chicken for breakfast even help? Talking to the sword might, and Harmony knows dead people can do really major things in the cosmere while dead, but chicken?

 

Most superstitions are nonsensical, but never underestimate the power of superstition! If you know anyone who plays sports they will have loads of superstitions and routines they must follow because they feel it needs to be that way to keep winning or playing well. I see this being just like most athletes superstitions who follow a pregame ritual before their games. Some will eat the same meal or wear the same socks or what not (I believe it is Mashawn Lynch with the Seattle Seahawks who eats skittles before and during every game). It is all nonsensical but if you win you think hey it must be because of the meal or the socks so i will keep doing it.

 

So if Adolin wants the chicken give him the chicken and get out of the way so he can out duel someone i say!

[natc]

Though talking to the sword is something I can conceive as one superstition with an actual origin. Radiants really do talk to "empty air" a lot.

[VladJunior]

Isn't the second ideal for Edgedancers something about remembering the forgotten? If so, Adolin fits that mold (with his mother, with the way he talks to stable boys, with the way he intercedes for the prostitute in Sadeas' camp, etc.) The fact that he will need to say the words of the second ideal of the Edgedancers makes a good fit for him. If he can revive a dead spren, he truly would be remembering the forgotten.

[The Honor Spren she/her]

Congratulations, you have successfully convinced me to side with this side of the discussion.