Adolin's Shardblade? Spoilers.

[maxal she/her]

Congratulations, you have successfully convinced me to side with this side of the discussion.

 

Welcome aboard the best theory of Stormlight Archive   

 

We are stuck in a tornado. We do not know where we'll land, but we are convinced we won't conveniently kill the witch as the foot of the yellow brick road. We are probably going to end up in the middle of nowhere. We are going to have to hike all through the forest without a compass to find the yellow brick road, heck we may even have to built the missing part of it in order to connect to the main one.

 

We are probably never going to get either the scarecrow, the tin man or the lion to help us as nobody believes we can actually find the road, much less stay on it. Everyone believes we don't belong there, even we believe we don't belong there, but when truth comes to shove, we truly have nowhere else to go if we want to keep on being ourselves.

 

Despite all adversity, we are convinced that, by the end, the journey will be worth it, as once we'll get there: it will be EPIC.

[Seloun]

I'm not sure I'm completely convinced by the theory, but I'll add one other similarity between Adolin and Lift: Both end up 'going back' for a friend:

 

 

Impossible. Kaladin glanced at Adolin, who walked slowly down the hallway. The prince looked a lot better than Kaladin felt— Adolin had obviously seen a few baths, and his prison cell had been much larger, with more privacy.

 

It had still been a cell.

 

That was the disturbance I heard, Kaladin thought, on that day, early after I was imprisoned. Adolin came and shut himself in.

 

Kaladin jogged up to the man. “Why?”

 

“Didn’t seem right, you in here,” Adolin said, eyes forward.

 

...

 

“I’m refined, you insolent farmer,” Adolin said. Then he grinned. “Besides, I’ll have you know that I had to use cold water for my baths while here.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 779). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

(em mine)

 

 

Was that motion on the wall at the edge of the grounds? Yes, those moving shadows were men. The other thieves were climbing their wall and disappearing into the night. Huqin had left his nephew, as expected.

 

Who would cry for Gawx? Nobody. He’d be forgotten, abandoned.

 

...

“Why do you care?” Wyndle asked again. He sounded curious. Not a challenge. An attempt to understand.

 

“Because someone has to.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 704). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
 

 

Doing the right thing on the small scale without necessarily worrying about the bigger picture is a characteristic of the Edgedancers:

 

 

“Yes. It is unfortunate they were always so concerned with small-minded things , while ignoring those of greater import. It appears you share their temperament. You have become one of them.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 705). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

It's worth noting that Kaladin probably would not let himself be imprisoned in solidarity for Adolin or anyone else:

 

 

Nobody will ever, ever, do this to me again. Not king or general, not brightlord or brightlady.

 

He would die first.

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 778). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

Most likely, Kaladin would have pursued a different solution in Adolin's shoes, though given the situation I'm not sure he would have found a better solution. I'd imagine Kaladin would have looked for a tactical or a clever solution rather than an empathic one. Both Adolin and Lift are more instinctual about their decisions, without being as philosophical as Kaladin or Shallan; they're satisfied by the simple, straightforward reasons for doing what they do.

[FirstSelector]

This is a fascinating theory, one which I had not previously considered.  I worry about how Brandon hedged three times on answering the quesiton, and it makes me wonder if this is one of those theoretical possibilities requiring off-world magic.  Since the series is supposed to be self-contained, it would be possible considering the whole cosmere but impossible when restricted to Roshar.  Thus, while techincally true, it doesn't help Adolin.

 

That being said, this smells like the perfect long-term setup for Adolin and I suspect that is will be possible given his available tools.

[maxal she/her]

I'm not sure I'm completely convinced by the theory, but I'll add one other similarity between Adolin and Lift: Both end up 'going back' for a friend:

 

 

(em mine)

 

 

Doing the right thing on the small scale without necessarily worrying about the bigger picture is a characteristic of the Edgedancers:

 

 

It's worth noting that Kaladin probably would not let himself be imprisoned in solidarity for Adolin or anyone else:

 

 

Most likely, Kaladin would have pursued a different solution in Adolin's shoes, though given the situation I'm not sure he would have found a better solution. I'd imagine Kaladin would have looked for a tactical or a clever solution rather than an empathic one. Both Adolin and Lift are more instinctual about their decisions, without being as philosophical as Kaladin or Shallan; they're satisfied by the simple, straightforward reasons for doing what they do.

 

Very good post. You made links I have not thought to make myself. Often, people dislike this theory because they feel Adolin is not as caring as Lift, an argument I think is weak as Adolin never had a Gwax to save, he does not the guidance of spren and he is not a level 2 Radiant either, but you are right in your analogy. He did go back for Kaladin. He braved the king's orders and imprison himself in protestation. There had been yelling when he did so: who was he arguing with? Dalinar most probably got very angry as his son, hence the shouting match, but Adolin had none of it and still lock himself up. Kaladin is prison was not right and he felt he has to do something: the was not much he could have done and somehow, even if he did not speed the process, he still did the right thing as Kaladin thought well of him for it.

 

I would also like to point out Wyndle did not seem so sure of Lift prior to her rescuing Gawx. He said out loud he would have chosen someone else... as if he did not see the right things in her, until she risked her life for the lost boy. Based on this, the fact Adolin has yet to express care and state it in understandable words. He is so close, so tantalizingly close and yet so far. He has the good instincts, he has this urge to do the right thing, to fix what he sees as wrong, independently of the written law and the cost to himself, but he has yet to call it care. He has not said the right words, but how can we blame him for it? He needs a spren to guide him and he doesn't. In my Wizard of Oz analogy, I state he'll have to hike through a very thick forest to get there, he'll stumble along the way and he'll have a hard time finding his way as nobody will help him, but he is so close, I can't help thinking he pull of the first and second oath. 

 

I agree Kaladin would have never done the same. At that point in time in the story, Kaladin would have done nothing to help Adolin, nothing at all. After WoR, I should think Kaladin would have seek a solution, but no one involving him staying in prison.

 

Lift and Adolin just act. They are emotional people and they ride on them. It makes them impulsive and they both strongly rely on their intuition. Nobody reads people as well as Adolin............... Dalinar should take his son counsel more often.

 

 

This is a fascinating theory, one which I had not previously considered.  I worry about how Brandon hedged three times on answering the quesiton, and it makes me wonder if this is one of those theoretical possibilities requiring off-world magic.  Since the series is supposed to be self-contained, it would be possible considering the whole cosmere but impossible when restricted to Roshar.  Thus, while techincally true, it doesn't help Adolin.

 

That being said, this smells like the perfect long-term setup for Adolin and I suspect that is will be possible given his available tools.

 

I think the fact Brandon edged on the answer means he does not want to give anything away. By edging, he has us keeping on theorizing on it. The theory keeps going without being disapproved. So whatever he plans, we still do not know. He gave us a bit of answer, but not the confirmation the story was going this way or not. Clever answering from Brandon, very clever answering.

[gbazz4 he/him]

 

I agree Kaladin would have never done the same. At that point in time in the story, Kaladin would have done nothing to help Adolin, nothing at all. After WoR, I should think Kaladin would have seek a solution, but no one involving him staying in prison.

 

 

 

I am not sure i would go so far as to say at this point in time in the story he would not have done anything at all. I mean the reason he did get into prison after all was because he helped save Adolin when nobody else would when faced with 4 shardbearers in the duel. 

 

He probably wouldn't have locked himself in prison as a protest (i can sort of understand that seeing as how he was locked up as a slave for months) but i would like to think he would try to work with Dalinar and think of something to get Adolin out if the roles were reversed.

[maxal she/her]

I am not sure i would go so far as to say at this point in time in the story he would not have done anything at all. I mean the reason he did get into prison after all was because he helped save Adolin when nobody else would when faced with 4 shardbearers in the duel. 

 

No. Kaladin did not get into prison because he helped Adolin. He got into prison because he step out of his station, he publicly accused Amaram without offering any proofs except his words, he insulted the king by spitting on his gift. This is why Kaladin got into prison, not because he helped Adolin.

 

He probably wouldn't have locked himself in prison as a protest (i can sort of understand that seeing as how he was locked up as a slave for months) but i would like to think he would try to work with Dalinar and think of something to get Adolin out if the roles were reversed.

 

I am not sure how that discussion is supposed to go... There was no reason for Adolin to end up in prison at that point in time. However, should he end up there because he murdered Sadeas, I do expect Kaladin not to be happy about it. He would never sit in in protestation but he would try something. Had Adolin murdered Sadeas before the 4 on 1 duel, I am unsure what Kaladin would have done.

[gbazz4 he/him]

 

No. Kaladin did not get into prison because he helped Adolin. He got into prison because he step out of his station, he publicly accused Amaram without offering any proofs except his words, he insulted the king by spitting on his gift. This is why Kaladin got into prison, not because he helped Adolin.

 

 

 

Sorry, I am taking a more nuanced approach with what i was trying to say. Kaladin would not have had the opportunity to publicly accuse Amaram in such a way had they not won the duel and him think he could ask for a boon. So i think it is relatively fair to say he went to prison because he helped Adolin. Without helping Adolin, Adolin gets beat in the duel, possibly seriously injured by a shardblade, and Kaladin stays mum and possibly tries at another time to accuse Amaram but wouldn't have done it there so he would not have been imprisoned. I think part of the reason why Adolin gets upset that Kaladin is imprisoned is because Kaladin just helped him out big time and he thinks it is wrong what they are doing to him. I was mainly trying to show that i think Kaladin would help Adolin at that time because he did help him when nobody else did by helping with the duel.

 

 

I am not sure how that discussion is supposed to go... There was no reason for Adolin to end up in prison at that point in time. However, should he end up there because he murdered Sadeas, I do expect Kaladin not to be happy about it. He would never sit in in protestation but he would try something. Had Adolin murdered Sadeas before the 4 on 1 duel, I am unsure what Kaladin would have done.

Sorry if I was confusing, when you responded with this point my intent was to discuss when you were responding to Seloun's post saying:

It's worth noting that Kaladin probably would not let himself be imprisoned in solidarity for Adolin or anyone else:

 

 

Most likely, Kaladin would have pursued a different solution in Adolin's shoes, though given the situation I'm not sure he would have found a better solution. I'd imagine Kaladin would have looked for a tactical or a clever solution rather than an empathic one. Both Adolin and Lift are more instinctual about their decisions, without being as philosophical as Kaladin or Shallan; they're satisfied by the simple, straightforward reasons for doing what they do.

I thought it was discussing the fact that we thought Kaladin would do something to help Adolin should their roles have been reversed at that time and through a similar situation. So i was trying to say respond to your point where you didn't think at the time in the story Kaladin would do anything at all to help Adolin. I think he would, just not the same way Adolin did because they are different people with different views and thought processes. I would like to think that Kaladin would have tried to help Adolin should Adolin have helped him in a similar instance and been imprisoned. It may not have been a protest is what i am saying, but i would think he would work with Dalinar to help Adolin in those type of circumstances. 

 

I think if we are looking at the Sadeas situation, if Adolin gets in trouble because of it then I think Kaladin would try to help Adolin since he has no love for Sadeas. 

[maxal she/her]

Sorry, I am taking a more nuanced approach with what i was trying to say. Kaladin would not have had the opportunity to publicly accuse Amaram in such a way had they not won the duel and him think he could ask for a boon. So i think it is relatively fair to say he went to prison because he helped Adolin. Without helping Adolin, Adolin gets beat in the duel, possibly seriously injured by a shardblade, and Kaladin stays mum and possibly tries at another time to accuse Amaram but wouldn't have done it there so he would not have been imprisoned. I think part of the reason why Adolin gets upset that Kaladin is imprisoned is because Kaladin just helped him out big time and he thinks it is wrong what they are doing to him. I was mainly trying to show that i think Kaladin would help Adolin at that time because he did help him when nobody else did by helping with the duel.

 

I am not sure I agree with your reasoning here. Kaladin would have gotten away from the duel, better he would have been honored for it had he kept his mouth shut about Amaram. He knew what was at stake as both Adolin and Shallan had explained it to him and still he decided to be selfish and to use what he naively thought was an opportunity to avenge himself.

 

Of course had Kaladin not joined in the duel, he would have never gotten the opportunity to say such things, but the fact remains the duel is not the cause of his imprisonment: his actions are.

 

Adolin, I believe, is upset because he understands Kaladin is ignorant of the rules and over-stepped his position by pure ignorance. Also, Kaladin saved Renarin and to Adolin, this means the world. Let's not forget Adolin does not care much for rules or conventions, so the fact Kaladin broke one does not matter to him as much as him saving Renarin. He saws Kaladin imprisonment as a huge injustice and he tried to fix with the only means he had.

 

Kaladin helped Adolin because the duel was not honorable and he has sworn to protect him. Not helping was a direct breach to his second oath. However, I do not think Kaladin would have had any incentive to help imprisoned Adolin. Kaladin does not dwell into what is wrong or right, but within who needs his protection or not. Wrong and rights are Adolin's personal cup of tea. I therefore do not think Kaladin would have been as pro-active as Adolin in that specific matter. However, after WoR, I do think Kaladin would indeed do something for the one man who stood up for him when no else did and who believed him when no else would without asking for proofs. That will weight heavily into Kaladin's own balance just as Kaladin saving Renarin weighted into Adolin's.

 

 

 

Sorry if I was confusing, when you responded with this point my intent was to discuss when you were responding to Seloun's post saying:

I thought it was discussing the fact that we thought Kaladin would do something to help Adolin should their roles have been reversed at that time and through a similar situation. So i was trying to say respond to your point where you didn't think at the time in the story Kaladin would do anything at all to help Adolin. I think he would, just not the same way Adolin did because they are different people with different views and thought processes. I would like to think that Kaladin would have tried to help Adolin should Adolin have helped him in a similar instance and been imprisoned. It may not have been a protest is what i am saying, but i would think he would work with Dalinar to help Adolin in those type of circumstances. 

 

I think if we are looking at the Sadeas situation, if Adolin gets in trouble because of it then I think Kaladin would try to help Adolin since he has no love for Sadeas. 

 

 

I do not think Kaladin, at the time of the 4 on 1 duel, would have done much for Adolin in that specific situation. However, I do think Kaladin, after WoR, would do something to help him. Why? Because Adolin gave him the one thing he has been craving for: trust. Better, he did not ask for anything in return and that weights a lot for Kaladin. 

 

So yes, baring what will happen to Adolin after the murder of Sadeas, I expect Kaladin to side with him, not because he agrees with his actions, but because he understands and I doubt he would let friend fall without trying to give a hand. That's just not Kaladin.

[mirahound she/her]

Most superstitions are nonsensical, but never underestimate the power of superstition! If you know anyone who plays sports they will have loads of superstitions and routines they must follow because they feel it needs to be that way to keep winning or playing well. I see this being just like most athletes superstitions who follow a pregame ritual before their games. Some will eat the same meal or wear the same socks or what not (I believe it is Mashawn Lynch with the Seattle Seahawks who eats skittles before and during every game). It is all nonsensical but if you win you think hey it must be because of the meal or the socks so i will keep doing it.

 

So if Adolin wants the chicken give him the chicken and get out of the way so he can out duel someone i say!

Oh my badness, I just realized: Lift has to eat something in order to use her Edgedancer abilities, right? What does Adolin have to do before every duel in which he uses his Shardblade? EAT CHICKEN!

Coincidence? I think NOT!

[mirahound she/her]

Also, now I really want to see Edgedancer Big Brother Adolin chasing down Lift trying to get his dinner back. 

[maxal she/her]

Oh my badness, I just realized: Lift has to eat something in order to use her Edgedancer abilities, right? What does Adolin have to do before every duel in which he uses his Shardblade? EAT CHICKEN!

Coincidence? I think NOT!

 

LOL but surely just a coincidence.

 

 

Also, now I really want to see Edgedancer Big Brother Adolin chasing down Lift trying to get his dinner back. 

 

Upvote. I want to see this too, especially since I imagine Adolin to be the kind of "I'm always hungry" guy who happily eats three plates of each servings and still goes to wander near the kitchen late in the evening because he is still hungry...

[Juanaton he/him]

Oh my badness, I just realized: Lift has to eat something in order to use her Edgedancer abilities, right? What does Adolin have to do before every duel in which he uses his Shardblade? EAT CHICKEN!

Coincidence? I think NOT!

 

LOL. Nah. The reason Lift has to eat to use her Edgedancer abilities is to get "Awesomeness" i.e. investiture. No one else can get it that way, but the Nightwatcher gave her a really weird boon (curse?). I suspect she could also get investiture by breathing in stormlight, but she doesn't know about that.