Satsuoni he/him Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Yes, but what is that intent? Unlike, say Ruin, Honor is, by its very nature, subjective. Even completely corrupted by Ruin, Ati wasn't above creating something to bring forth more destruction later, so Intents aren't quite absolute to begin with. Also, even the "absolute" Honor doesn't have anything to do with peace... As far as I can tell, anyway. Honor is rules, bindings and principles, but without core, they are nothing. Hence, imposing intent of Honor on somebody would just make them act as they think is right. This may or may not change the underlying personality, depending on whether one though he was acting right before. Anyway. Honor is not peace, not justice (much the opposite, in many cases), and IRL it was most often applied to conflict situations. So, assuming there is "non-subjective standard of honor"(something that I doubt), what is it, in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) I was about to post a long and quote-filled essay on why tools of death are not the best symbols of Honor, even though they can be used for honorable purposes... But I thought, who am I kidding?! I love swords! Especially gigantic fancy-looking magic ones! I for one would like to see Kaladin take up the Shard of Honor, then create a planet-sized monster of a Shardblade and literally make Rayse the "broken one". That would be awesome and super cool. Or if we can't have that, then I shall be content with Kaladin, Dalinar, Shallan, and Szeth all having a change of heart, realizing how honorable Shardblades really are if used only to slay "dark gods", and then going forth to kick Voidbringer chull, just like what the Radiants did repeatedly during the Heraldic epochs and the cycle of Desolations. Or if that doesn't sound very honorable to you (or if you fear the start of another cycle of Desolations), perhaps the Shardblades have a yet-undiscovered non-lethal "Honor Mode" that turns anyone it touches into peaceful, honorable citizens of goodness, instead of cutting their souls and burning their eyes out. And they'll turn the spren touched by the Unmade back into their normal form. Hey, perhaps Shardblades are the Dawnshards! Yeah, any of those scenarios would be truly epic, indeed. I can't wait to know which of them will come true. The excitement is killing me! Edited June 27, 2013 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 I agree with you Satsuoni that honor does not necessarily equal peace. There truly is honorable warfare. Honorable aggression (I think) is a bit of a knife edge. But for a war to happen you only need one aggressor. War against tyranny, evil, oppression, etc. truly is an honorable cause, imo. As to an absolute standard of honor, IRL honor is definitely in the eye of the beholder. I'm am not saying that there is a universal standard of honor that all perceptions of honor can be measured against. I am saying that the shard Honor has an non-subjective standard of honor that is the driving intent of that particular shard. If the radiantblades and honorblades are formed by Honor, as I theorize, then this shardic standard of honor applies to the usage of the blades. Honorspren being slivers of Honor, as I theorize, would hold this same standard of honor to be absolute. What that shardic standard of honor comprises I don't know for sure. But we do know from comments in that oaths and promises are an important aspect of Honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni he/him Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 @Shardlet: Fair enough , if you don't know... I would argue, though, that unlike other Shards, Honor was also influenced by its wielder to form that "subjective honor" you speak about, which then became a permanent fixture... @Skaa: wielding a giant magic sword *is* Honor, and a great one at that One other thing I though I'd note: in the cycle of Desolations, Radiant Shardblades are relatively recent - I don't think they existed before the Radiants, and Radiant didn't exist before Nohadon made them somehow. (I think the Dawnshard theory of Radiant creation is a good one, though) Oathpact, however, existed before that, so either it was extended to include Shardblades, or they were unilateral side effects of Radiant creation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 It had crossed my mind that perhaps the shard adopts the holder's understanding of honor and then locks that in as the standard. I get the feeling that the Radiants were present for at least most of the desolations. I am unsure as to whether the radiants originated with Nohadon or even where Nohadon lies in the overall timeline. I think he is clearly a substantial amount of time prior to the Recreance, but other than that, I am not sure. I expect we will get a meatier history of Roshar in WoR since the prime POV will be Shallan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freezedragon he/him Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Shardblades each have a gemstone in the pommel (or at least in some location; largely irrelevant for the present purpose). Fabrials are devices which gain extraordinary abilities via a spren captured in a gemstone fit in the fabrial. It is my contention that shardblades are a sort of god-fabrial. I suspect that rather than a simple spren being captured in the gemstone it is a piece of a Shard voluntarily splintered and placed or invested in the gemstone (or even, it may be the gemstone) for the express purpose of forming the shardblade. When you say this, it made me think of the fact that shardblades are increasingly heavy so you would need a shardplate to use them effectively. When a shardplate is cracked, it leaks stormlight, which both the armor and the old knights radiant were able to use. If this were the case then wouldn't the old knights radiant be able to draw stormlight from the armor like Kaladin did from the gems thus enhancing their own abilities to wield a shardblade? (just a thought) Edited February 14, 2014 by freezedragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Well, some adjustments need to be made to this theory in view of some of the WoR chapters we have seen. Unfortunately, the adjustments must be in spoiler tags to protect the innocent. We saw Adolin crush the gemstone in the pommel of the shardblade he won in the duel. He think-speaks about how this is a traditional symbolic action taken when a blade changes hands. So it appears that while gemstones may be a part of the blades, they do not have any particular virtue in and of themselves (like a captured spren or a piece of a Shard). When you say this, it made me think of the fact that shardblades are increasingly heavy so you would need a shardplate to use them effectively. When a shardplate is cracked, it leaks stormlight, which both the armor and the old knights radiant were able to use. If this were the case then wouldn't the old knights radiant be able to draw stormlight from the armor like Kaladin did from the gems thus enhancing their own abilities to wield a shardblade? (just a thought) It will be interesting to see two surgebinders fight. Will they feed off of each other's leaking stormlight or must stormlight come from a container (like a gemstone) in order to be infused. The obvious exception to this is Lift. But, that appears to be a gift to her from the Nightwatcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freezedragon he/him Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think that they couldn't feed off of stormlight. Kaladin would have been able to use that on the plateau with Dalinar. It still would be cool though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think that they couldn't feed off of stormlight. Kaladin would have been able to use that on the plateau with Dalinar. It still would be cool though. Good point. I hadn't thought about that scene. Very pertinent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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