What Happens if Shallan draws Kaladin

[Leuthie]

The importance of music, symmetry, oaths, art, etc in relation to magic and power tells me that resonance is a good word to describe the "focus" on Roshar. Resonate with a spren and gain access to powers beyond the physical.

[Kurkistan he/him]

*Mistborn Spoilers*

 

Such "resonance" doesn't seem limited to Roshar, actually. Whenever Ruin shows up "in the flesh" to a spike-recipient, anyone in the area who's been spiked can see him, suggesting that spike-recipients are similarly "resonating" with Ruin.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Windborne Sword he/him]

Such "resonance" doesn't seem limited to Roshar, actually. Whenever Ruin shows up "in the flesh" to a spike-recipient, anyone in the area who's been spiked can see him, suggesting that spike-recipients are similarly "resonating" with Ruin.

 

That would make much more sense and would possibly be why Rock can see Syl? He's keeping to his oaths of non violence and can see her because of the honor that brings?

[Kurkistan he/him]

*Mistborn Spoilers*

 

Or he's just sensitive to such things, be it through birth or training. Much like a sufficiently strong Seeker can presumably sense the Well without having any other special attributes.

[Windborne Sword he/him]

*Mistborn Spoilers*

 

Or he's just sensitive to such things, be it through birth or training. Much like a sufficiently strong Seeker can presumably sense the Well without having any other special attributes.

 

 

Ahh I forgot about that. Alendi was a natural Seeker prior to TLR's ascension wasn't he. Maybe it is something he can do naturally.

[Leuthie]

The resonance doesn't have to be unique to Roshar. Of course, seeing Ruin because of a previous spike might mean that removing a spike doesn't necessarily remove everything that spike gave you.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Orem Signing Report

Zas

Marsh, as an Inquisitor, can see Ruin, and Vin sees Ruin, but they're not seeing the same thing. So how does that work?

Brandon Sanderson

In what way? How about this. I'll give you this. I know what you're getting at. And a lot of these things I know what you're getting at, I'm just trying to force you to—I'll just give you one on this. In some cases, Ruin would manifest directly, and you would see what he wanted you to see. In other cases, that might not be the case.

[Kurkistan he/him]

@Leuthi

 

No one sees Ruin post-spike-removal, that I recall. He disappears when Spook takes his spike out, and when Vin takes hers out to "kill" Marsh for time number 73. His voice also goes away suddenly a few times when Vin loses her earring, if IRC.

 

@Phantom

 

I know you like your quotes, Phantom, but some analysis as to what you think this quote means would also be nice here.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I know you like your quotes, Phantom, but some analysis as to what you think this quote means would also be nice here.

 

 

Ruin has some degree of control as to how he's perceived.  He has demonstrated the ability to choose whether or not he's manifested in a visible form, even when he's 'present', as well (which is seperate).  But we know he isn't physically 'there' even when manifested - unfortunately, it was too dark to tell if it's the same 'blur as you put your hand through a spren', but we know that thrown cans at fake!Reen just go right through.

 

I suspect that (at least some) spren are similar way - they can control how they're perceived within limits (creationspren are a good example), but that isn't really what they are, it's just the image that's associated with them, just how Ruin is 'really' either a giant mob of black smoke or a redhead (depending how you define a 'true form').  Basically, most spren hanging out are always 'manifested directly'.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Kurkistan he/him]

Okay, I can buy that interpretation. Thank you.

[Khmauv he/him]

I think I am going to take this thread in a different direction. The OP assumes that you have to have a spren "interested" in you to become a KR. My understanding was that Syl was interested in Kaladin because of his honorable actions.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to train people to be honorable, which in-turn would invite spren to bond with, than it would be to search everywhere hoping to find someone who just happens to be attracting a spren?

[Shardlet he/him]

The conversation between Dalinar and the blue KR in Starfalls seems to suggest that while Syl and Kaladin's bond are very spontaneous and 'organic' (in the current vernacular), that other bonding experiences are less so.  The KR tells Dalinar that he should come to Urithuru and that, although he can't guarantee it, it is probable in his eyes that Dalinar (Heb) would become a radiant.  The radiant says that this is because of Dalinar's skill and makes no mention of his character.

[Khmauv he/him]

The conversation between Dalinar and the blue KR in Starfalls seems to suggest that while Syl and Kaladin's bond are very spontaneous and 'organic' (in the current vernacular), that other bonding experiences are less so.  The KR tells Dalinar that he should come to Urithuru and that, although he can't guarantee it, it is probable in his eyes that Dalinar (Heb) would become a radiant.  The radiant says that this is because of Dalinar's skill and makes no mention of his character.

Precisely! So I think that Kaladin is going to learn from Syl how to teach his Ex-Bridgemen how to attract spren and bond them. 

[hoser he/him]

The conversation between Dalinar and the blue KR in Starfalls seems to suggest that while Syl and Kaladin's bond are very spontaneous and 'organic' (in the current vernacular), that other bonding experiences are less so.  The KR tells Dalinar that he should come to Urithuru and that, although he can't guarantee it, it is probable in his eyes that Dalinar (Heb) would become a radiant.  The radiant says that this is because of Dalinar's skill and makes no mention of his character.

Actually, I disagree.  I think he is saying it is likely he will have a place, but not necessarily as a Radiant.

He says he can't promise a place in the orders "that decision is not mine", but he is confident that he can find a place with them.  We saw, in the Recreance vision, that there were other non-Knights associated with the Radiants.  Based on his fighting skill, he judges that Dalinar could have a place, but not necessarily in the orders. 

Whose decision is it that someone is in the orders?  It could be someone in the Radiant hierarchy or it could be a spren, we don't know. 

Notice that he says that Dalinar's ability is extraordinary for a Knight or a soldier.  The female knight says that all who can fight are needed and all who have a desire to fight should be compelled to come to Urithiru.  Surely not everybody becomes a Knight. 

[Shardlet he/him]

I agree that not all who come to Urithuru are accepted into an order.  The blue radiant's comments certainly confirm that.  However, I think the grammatical structure of the blue radiant's comments do indicate that he thinks it is probable Dalinar (Heb) would become a Radiant.  He first states that it is not his decision as to whether he would become a radiant and then makes a contrasting statement about his confidence of Dalinar finding a place with the radiants. 

 

I think think if your interpretation were accurate, Hoser, the radiant would have made a more qualified statement like, 'But even so, your skill would certainly give you a place with us'.  But, the radiant only expresses confidence of this.  Blue KR thinks his skills are exceptional.  If he meant that Dalinar would find a place as a non-radiant, then Dalinar's skills would virtually guarantee it.  He would have to be an absolute turd for them to turn him away.  But Dalinar's actions in the scene would surely indicate that Dalinar is an enemy of the essence and (especially due his joining the KR in the fight) has courage and selflessness in spades.

 

So, once again it appears we disagree Hoser  .

[hoser he/him]

I agree that not all who come to Urithuru are accepted into an order.  The blue radiant's comments certainly confirm that.  However, I think the grammatical structure of the blue radiant's comments do indicate that he thinks it is probable Dalinar (Heb) would become a Radiant.  He first states that it is not his decision as to whether he would become a radiant and then makes a contrasting statement about his confidence of Dalinar finding a place with the radiants. 

 

I think think if your interpretation were accurate, Hoser, the radiant would have made a more qualified statement like, 'But even so, your skill would certainly give you a place with us'.  But, the radiant only expresses confidence of this.  Blue KR thinks his skills are exceptional.  If he meant that Dalinar would find a place as a non-radiant, then Dalinar's skills would virtually guarantee it.  He would have to be an absolute turd for them to turn him away.  But Dalinar's actions in the scene would surely indicate that Dalinar is an enemy of the essence and (especially due his joining the KR in the fight) has courage and selflessness in spades.

 

So, once again it appears we disagree Hoser  .

Now I disagree about our disagreement .

 

It seems we agree that Dalinar is being told that he is nearly certain to be accepted as a Radiant "soldier" based on his fighting skill. 

We agree that he is being told that he may be accepted as a Knight. 

And your last post suggests that you believe that Dalinar's actions (not solely skill) improve the likelihood of becoming a knight.  I agree with this. 

What I disagreed with was: "The radiant says that this is because of Dalinar's skill and makes no mention of his character."  I must have misunderstood. I thought you were saying that you thought acceptance as a Knight would be solely based on fighting skill. 

 

So there we might be: violent agreement.  Do you agree?

[Shardlet he/him]

I agree that we agree in many aspects.  I think perhaps violent agreement is perhaps too strong... (Dang it! there I go being contrary again  ).  Seriously though, our disagreement comes in my belief that blue KR is saying, 'I'm pretty sure you're in like Flynt'.  Whereas, it appears that you are saying that blue KR is saying 'If not a radiant, here is a lovely parting gift of being a grunt in our armies'. 

 

Basically I think he is saying, 'It isn't my decision so I can't say for certain, but I'd lay solid money on you becoming a KR'.

 

Edit: spelling.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Shardlet

[hoser he/him]

I agree that we agree in many aspects.  I think perhaps violent agreement is perhaps too strong... (Dang it! there I go being contrary again  ).  Seriously though, our disagreement comes in my belief that blue KR is saying, 'I'm pretty sure you're in like Flynt'.  Whereas, it appears that you are saying that blue KR is saying 'If not a radiant, here is a lovely parting gift of being a grunt in our armies'. 

 

Basically I think he is saying, 'It isn't my decision so I can't say for certain, but I'd lay solid money on you becoming a KR'.

I can read the text either way. 

I am saying, based on my understanding of investiture and the knights, that his acceptance as a knight would be partly action-based and not purely skill-based.  If your interpretation is correct and the knight is implying acceptance as a knight, then I believe it is partly because of the Radiant's judgments about Dalinar's actions and not just his fighting skill. 

Does this make sense?  Other than your conviction about your interpretation of the statement, do we still disagree?

[Shardlet he/him]

I agree, that somewhere in the mix his character must be taken into account.  However, we only know (some of) the qualifications that honorspren look for.  Nohadon implies that different spren look for different characteristics in their bondee.  We have no idea what other spren can form Nahel Bonds or what qualities they look for.  Clearly, to become a radiant, one's character must be at least baseline acceptable to a spren to initiate bonding (I presume).  But this could be a pretty broad slate of characteristics and I doubt all of them require you to be a pretty rockin' guy (or gal).

 

My judgement about blue KR's comments meaning is based on the fact that he says, "...but if your skill with the sword is similar to your skill with hearth-tending implements, then I am confident you will find a place with us." 

[Arran]

I'm late to the party, but even so I'd like to suggest another possibility for Shallan to draw Kaladin and Syl: when he's training with a spear. From that scene in the chasm, he's really a sight to behold when he's training with his favorite weapon, and Syl likes being near him when he's doing that. So if Kaladin trains with his men in the midst of Dalinar's camp, by the time Shallan arrives there could already be word circulating about his amazing skill with a spear, perhaps to the point of drawing a crowd when he trains. This, coupled with Kaladin's unusual position in Dalinar's army and the tales of what he did at the Tower, could cause Shallan to mingle with the observers to draw him when he's training, and unknowingly draw Syl as well.

[Crysanja]

guess Shallan drawing Kaladin will be more like an accident.

like taking a memory of the shattered plane, but Kaladin is just staying somewhere in it.

 

dont see much reason for Shallan to make a memory of Kaladin.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

guess Shallan drawing Kaladin will be more like an accident.

like taking a memory of the shattered plane, but Kaladin is just staying somewhere in it.

 

dont see much reason for Shallan to make a memory of Kaladin.

She's hanging out with Dalinar and Jasnath, and upon inspecting troops finds Kaladin striking.

[Bob the Goblin]

I think Shallan will draw Kaladin on impulse for her "collection" or maybe if she sees him talking to himself (Syl). Depending on the situation, she'll most likely will capture Syl as well. What I'm curious about is when/if she captures Kal using storm light while fighting ans Syl is getting off on all the action around him. Wonder what would she think than or would she just have one of her panic attacks.

PS: Rock will end up as a cook for he king (go Elvis) and will seek glyph heads around him

[Miyabi She/Her]

I have always read that passage to say that the Blue KR is almost certain that Dalinar will become a KR, but he can't force a Spren to bind to him. The KR saw that Dalinar was being honorable in defending the people around him as best he could despite the fact that the odds were stacked very very against him. That is an honorable thing. The KR most likely assumed an Honorspren would bind to Dalinar, if not an Honorspren perhaps another Spren would, which would allow him some level of Knighthood, but not to "level up" as it were. This KR would have probably known all of the 40 or so Spren which could have Bound to Dalinar and had a few in mind which if an Honorspren didn't most likely would. Whether it be "love" due to how he protected his family. "Determination" because of how strongly he fought, or any number of other potential Spren which could form a Nahel Bond. So perhaps he wouldn't be a full Knight, but most likely a Knight to some degree.

[Gloom he/him]

I'm skeptical. Whose cryptic did Shallan draw? Was it the kings cryptic? Was it her own cryptic revealing itself? If she will always paint a persons spren in their picture, then why didn't Taravangian free his own granddaughter instead of relying on Jasnah to do so? Does this mean that Jasnah doesn't have a cryptic because Shallan never drew one in her drawings? For what it's worth, the only one that was there that we can be sure has a cryptic is Shallan.