Theory: Hoid - Nightblood - Roshar

[Natans he/him]

OK, I tried find if someone already have noticed this but I dind't find anytinhig so here goes =)

 

I was reading (for the first time) warbreak and in the first chapter of the book something caught my atettion, look this description:

 

"The man whistled as he unwrapped the cloth, revealing a long, thin-bladed sword in a silver sheath. The hilt was pure black" Aka= The Nightblood.

 

 

And in the two time that the sword that Hoid carry in The Way of Kings as described by Adolin and Kaladin look what they said.

 

"Though he wore a long thin sword tied to his waist, was far as Adolin knew, the man had never drawn it."

 

"He wore a thin-black sheathed sword" 

 

Everytime that BS was asked how would win an shardblade or the nightblood we let the aswer to our imagination, so do you guys (and gals) think that Hoid, without nobody notice was carry the nightblood?

 

Think about, long, thin, black and never drawed(because of the breath cost), maybe we in fact will see what happens when nightblood and shardblade clashs =)

 

 

 

[Morsk he/him]

The sheath is different; one is silver, the other black. It could just be a different sheath though. That's a great observation that both swords are long and thin.

Hoid stealing Nightblood would be a great ending to the story in the Warbreaker sequel. Nightblood is too dangerous to leave around, but too cool to kill off. Adding it to Hoid's collection is the perfect solution.

[Windrunner he/him]

I'm not sure that it would be so easy as to simply change sheaths. I'm pretty sure Nightblood is tied to the one he has right now, it can block his powers somehow. On the other hand, Yesteel knows how to make Type IV Biochromatic entities, so I wouldn't put it past Hoid to have an Awakened sword.

[Morsk he/him]

I'm undecided on whether the sheath is magical. It could be a side-effect of Nightblood having a sword for a body, that he tends to act like a sword, and swords are safe when sheathed.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I'm pretty sure the sheath is part of Nightblood

Nightblood

Nightblood�s name, by the way, is supposed to sound kind of like the names of the Returned. I played with various different ways for his powers to manifest. I liked the idea of him driving those who hold him to kill anyone nearby. It seemed to work with the concepts that have come before�a kind of unholy, sentient mix of Stormbringer and the One Ring.

The strangest thing about him is the idea that his form isn�t that important. The sheath is like a binding for him, keeping his power contained. So drawing him out isn�t like drawing a regular weapon, but rather an unleashing of a creature who has been kept chained.

Once that creature is unleashed, he becomes a weapon�even if he�s unleashed only a little bit. The sheath itself turns into a weapon, twisting those around it. You don�t need to stab someone with Nightblood to kill them; smashing them on the back with the sheath works just as well. It will crunch bones, but beyond that, merely touching them with the sheath when the smoke is leaking can be deadly

 

I've posted on this before - I think it's fairly plausible that Hoid has a Nightblood-type-blade (which I'm going to call a 'nightblade' until it catches on), though not Nightblood himself.  Then again, could just be a shardblade. I think it's been mentioned too often to be pointless.

Here's a look at Nightblood from an unaugmented (though far from normal) dude.

 

His net struck something. He grumbled, yanking it. Sometimes it got caught on debris or coral. It was heavy. Too heavy. He pulled the net back up over the side, then opened the shield on his lantern, risking a bit of light.

Tangled in the net, a sword lay in the bottom of his boat. Silvery, with a black handle.

Lap, lap, lap.

Ah, very nice, the voice said, much clearer now. I hate the water. So wet and icky down there.

Transfixed, Old Chapps reached out, picking up the weapon. It felt heavy in his hand.

I don’t suppose you’d want to go destroy some evil, would you? the voice said. I’m not really sure what that means, to be honest. I’ll just trust you to decide.

Old Chapps smiled.

Oh, all right, the sword said. You can admire me a little bit longer, if you must. After that, though, we really need to get back to shore.

 

Of course, shardblades are silver-colored as well, so being silver isn't really evidence either way.  But here are a couple more quotes from The Way of Kings.

 

Wit picked his way through the groups of attendants, holding a cup of wine in one hand, silver sword belted at his side.

 

Wit sat on a raised stool at the end of the bridge leading onto the island. Wit actually dressed as a lighteyes should—he wore a stiff black uniform, silver sword at his waist. Dalinar shook his head at the irony.

 

Kaladin found a man sitting on a boulder, wearing a lighteyes’s black uniform. A small fire of rockbud shell burned in front of him. The man’s hair was short and black, his face angular. He wore a thin, black-sheathed sword at his waist.

 

 

Incidentally, there's a HECK of a lot of 'silvery' stuff in The Way of Kings.  I have to wonder about that, though it is a word Brandon is rather fond of.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Pechvarry]

I'm wondering if the description in the kaladin scene is wrong.

Alternatively, doesn't he visit Kaladin while officially disappearing? I could see him wrapping the silvery scabbard with a black material to help avoid notice and recognition.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if one could feed Nightblood any type of investiture. Like, ohhh, stored calories from all those lighteyes feasts.

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

I speculated on this topic a bit in a WoR subforum thread. With a bit more reasoning in a follow up post.

Salient points are:

1. Shardblade interactions with Nightblood/Awakened objects, RAFOed and "You will someday know.", respectively.

2. The epilogue to Words of Radiance will likely have a fight between users of different magic systems.

3. Hoid probably has Breath.  Hoid was also the PoV character for the first SA book epilogue, it might become a running theme.

4. If Hoid's sword is an Awakened blade, it looks and behaves differently from Nightblood.  I don't think is that strange, since Yesteel probably has used a different Visualization, Command, and amount of Breaths.  It might not even have sentience.

 

I think Nightblood really belongs with Vasher, or if he dies or something, then with Vivenna.  Since Brandon tends to keep most Cosmere books self-contained, it would be odd if Nightblood (the book) ended with Nightblood disappearing under mysterious circumstances with Hoid, who's had relatively little interaction with the Nalthis characters.  But any similar Awakened swords Yesteel makes should be fair game for Hoid.

Also, the Stormlight Archive takes place after Warbreaker, and since Nightblood is expected to take place shortly after Warbreaker, it's reasonable to guess that SA takes place after it as well. And if Yesteel is making swords like Nightblood, what better souvenir is there for Hoid to take home with him after he makes his mandated appearance in Nightblood? It could be the fairly nondescript sword that he's carrying around in WoK.

[Azul he/him]

I'm wondering if the description in the kaladin scene is wrong.

Alternatively, doesn't he visit Kaladin while officially disappearing? I could see him wrapping the silvery scabbard with a black material to help avoid notice and recognition.

 

Likely he wouldn't even have to wrap it in cloth.  If if is Nightblood or a similar awakened sword there is a chance it could change its physical appearance in the same way the Returned can.  Or

Hoid could use Lightweaving to set an illusion on it.

[ADIMORTIS he/him]

If it was nightblood, wouldn't it talk to other people in their mind. It may be a sword from nalthis , but I personally doubt it being Nightblood.

[Senor Feesh]

As far as I recall, Nightblood never speaks to anyone until they've held him at least once.

As to the question of sentience, and whether other awakened swords would have it, isn't that part of the classification of a type IV BioChromatic entity?

[Phantom Monstrosity]

As far as I recall, Nightblood never speaks to anyone until they've held him at least once.

I already posted part of the Old Chapps segment.

[Kurkistan he/him]

So yes, he can talk to people without them having held him, but he isn't exactly in the habit of "broadcasting," so it's not necessary for him to talk to anyone but his holder the vast majority of the time.

[Pechvarry]

So I'm thinking about this.  Let's break down the components:

 

You're a dude with the knowledge of gods, but not their power.

You know where all the gods live, you can visit them in their realms, be they physical or otherwise.

You really don't like this guy, Rayse.  Especially since he became a god.

 

Now what do you find on Nalthis?  Perhaps hundreds of years after Warbreaker and Vasher, for all we know.  A blade that feeds on Breath -- Investiture, the power of the gods themselves.  It has an insatiable appetite for the stuff.

 

So is this Hoid's hand?  Kill Odium by giving him an unchained Nightblood?  Imagine what Nightblood could do if unleashed in Shadesmar.  Left to his intent, no physics to restrain him.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Pechvarry

[Windborne Sword he/him]

I could see Hoid stealing Nightblood from Vasher, but I don't think he'd do it without a very good reason. He already has something from Nalthis, the breath, and as far as we know there is only one Shard on Nalthis. Unless Nightblood was a mixture between two shards powers like Feruchemy is between Ruin and Preservation I don't see why theres a particular need for him to have Nightblood. I do think it may be another sentient sword though. Especially if he has never drawn it.

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

As far as I recall, Nightblood never speaks to anyone until they've held him at least once.

As to the question of sentience, and whether other awakened swords would have it, isn't that part of the classification of a type IV BioChromatic entity?

 

But would other Awakened swords necessarily be type IVs?  It might be possible to Awaken stone and metal without instilling sentience.  It would just be a very expensive type 3 then.

[Knightmare]

This may be a stupid question but would an awakened sword even work on Roshar given that there would be an entirely different set of shards on the planet? 

[Kurkistan he/him]

I would hazard yes, given that Nightblood seems to get all of his juice from Breath, not from actively drawing on Endowment. BioChroma as a whole seems to be fairly cut off from its parent Shard, in that Breath appear to act like self-replenishing energy packets.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Windrunner he/him]

Oooh, so fun idea. We know that if someone draws Nightblood it's gonna feed off their Breaths until it kills them. It's utilizing the Breaths for energy. But, what if the person drawing Nightblood was infused with Stormlight? Would he be able to use that energy instead, or would it not work because it's from Honor/Cultivation/Odium/godonlyknowswhat?

[Morsk he/him]

Oooh, so fun idea. We know that if someone draws Nightblood it's gonna feed off their Breaths until it kills them. It's utilizing the Breaths for energy. But, what if the person drawing Nightblood was infused with Stormlight? Would he be able to use that energy instead, or would it not work because it's from Honor/Cultivation/Odium/godonlyknowswhat?

Nightblood breaks all the rules we know for Breath transfer. If the reason is because he's powerful enough to be his own splinter powering his own personal magic system with its own rules, then I have no problem with him stealing Stormlight too. He'd be doing cosmere meta-magic, not Nalthis magic, and any Shard can fuel any magic system.

I could be grossly overestimating him though. Maybe he just mind-controls people into consenting to Breath transfer, and his Cognative bond with them substitutes for the need to speak the Command verbally. That's not going to help him pull Stormlight from people. (edit: On the other hand, could Nightblood bond with someone as their Roshar spren? Scary...)

Another thing: Is Stormlight interchangeable with Breath? I see Stormlight and the Dor as more pure energy, with Breath more like Mist. We don't understand the difference yet, but there does seem to be a difference. Highstorms and the Dor are dangerous; Mist is mostly harmless. Maybe the whispy white Stormlight inside a Surgebinder has been "converted" to the usable form though. Also if Hoid has Nicrosil Feruchemy, there must be something he can do to help convert Investitures.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Morsk

[Kurkistan he/him]

I think Breath is unique in that it's self-replenishing in the short term, so it seems that would make it quite different from stormlight.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I think Breath is unique in that it's self-replenishing in the short term, so it seems that would make it quite different from stormlight.

What do you mean by self-replenishing?  That kids get new breaths?  Seems like something that comes by every week or so would be more  replenishing?

[Kurkistan he/him]

I mean that you can keep getting power from them indefinitely without "draining" them. This is all tied up in some larger theoretical commitments I have, but I essentially think that Breaths hold, say, 100 units of power and normally pay off an "interest" of 10%: this interest goes into fueling most BioChroma, then. As opposed to Breaths providing some link to mooch off of Endowment.

 

When you animate a Lifeless with a single Breath, that one Breath continues to provide power indefinitely, never depleting. So that Breath's power is "self-replenishing".

 

Though, in light of Brandon's comment about Allomancy "using" Preservation's power like a mill uses water, I suppose you could have an alternate model where Breaths don't generate new energy, but just use the "flow" of their energy to achieve some free incidental results. Either way, so far as practical concerns go, self-replenishing. Where with stormlight you have 100 units to use, you use them, their gone--so far as you're concerned, at least--Breath can give you a solid stream of 10 units per second for the foreseeable future.

 

OT: I EDITed in a substantive reply back on the Space-Forging thread. Sorry again for misreading you so grossly.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I mean that you can keep getting power from them indefinitely without "draining" them. This is all tied up in some larger theoretical commitments I have, but I essentially think that Breaths hold, say, 100 units of power and normally pay off an "interest" of 10%: this interest goes into fueling most BioChroma, then. As opposed to Breaths providing some link to mooch off of Endowment.

I'm not entirely sure of that - old people and young people have noticabley different Breaths, which is why they give Lightsong Breath from a kid.

[Kurkistan he/him]

Oh yeah, sure, they can vary in power. It may even be the case that they strengthen and weaken when they're a proper part of a human soul. But they seem to "lock down" when you use them for Awakening, or at least they last for quite a long while.

 

The Breaths keeping Kalad's Phantom's from falling apart lasted for three centuries. That would suggest that they aren't using their "capital" when you use them for Awakening, at least to a certain extent. Nightblood was made during the Manywar (also three centuries) and he's still kicking. The only expiration date we're given for Lifeless is their ichor alcohol being kept fresh and their bodies kept in good condition, so I would hazard that they can last for longer than usual as a matter of course.

 

If Breath can keep piles of bones together for long enough to fade into legend, that suggests that they either have a near-infinite well of power or they're managing to replenish/reuse a finite well. I'd guess the later.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Morsk he/him]

I think Breath is unique in that it's self-replenishing in the short term, so it seems that would make it quite different from stormlight.

I think Mistborn shows us both self-replenishing and non-replenishing magics in the same world, and suggests some of the differences.

When Sazed absorbs the white and black mist at the end, he expects to have temporary power, and is surprised to find it endless. The endlessness reminds me Breath, and they're even both transferred in a hybrid spiritual / gas form. Also Snapping and burning Lerasium give someone something endless. Almost all magic is temporary though.

So what on Roshar is permanent? The Nahel bond is permanent, and it's caused by a spren. If Stormlight isn't enough for Nightblood, spren might be.